I told him to leave! I've been doing Plan A since 7/3. 7/1 was confrontation day. I told him then to leave and he did only to return two days later. He said that he pays the bills so that he had every right to be here. I replied that if he was to stay some effort would have to be made to reconcile. I told him that we owed it to each other and our daughter to try. Stupid me! I thought he agreed and that his affair was on hold! <BR>I tried not to lovebust and ask too many questions when he stayed overnight at different places (a total of three times since 7/3). The first night I left a message on his cell telling him how upset I was that he had gone overnight for a golf tournament knowing that she would probably be attending it. I also left a message saying that I loved him but that he was such a dolt sometimes! His only comment later was did I think I was Martha Mitchell or something! (I had one too many drinks that night and had told him so in my message.) <BR>Two weeks ago I discovered on his cell phone that he had been calling her at home. I was visibly shaken to say the least and he wanted to know why. So I informed him how I knew and he still kept denying that he was seeing her. She is a client so I knew there would be some contact but not after hours at her home! <BR>We had a talk that night and I asked him if it was worth it. His response was "I don't know" and then he said that my question lead to another one--details. I didn't want details! He said that he needed some time--he was confused and he wouldn't be home much. I replied that I couldn't live like that! He said that he wouldn't do anything right now and that we would talk some more first. We didn't!<BR>Well, last night he worked late. I drove by her house. Sure enough his car was there! I left our wedding bands on his car seat and a message on his cell that if he didn't have the decency to move out that he could at least not come home tonight! He came home and I slept on the couch! He says that he doesn't remember ever saying that to me and he asked me if I wanted him to leave. (As if the wedding bands doesn't say it all--of course knowing him he probably didn't notice them until this morning!) I said yes! I don't want to be a doormat anymore! He's gone to work now. He hasn't packed yet. I told him to do it when our daughter is not here. Maybe tonight when she's at soccer. <BR>But now what? Should I send him a Plan B letter (e-mail)? Advice anyone please!<P>P.S. I don't post very often here. I'm not online that long each day. But I do read a lot of the posts here but have never felt like I had any good advice to give.

Oh, gee what a mess - Have you called Harley? DHJ has a thread I would love for you to read. There is a link to the plan B stuff.....<P>Do not lovebust, demand, snoop at this point - you already know about the affair and snooping just makes it worse for you. Try to see what you do that still changes his behavior. <P>Cook him a nice meal - and see if it makes a difference at least for the moment. Try to do some things by trial and error that tell you what the real keys are to changing his behavior. But the main thing right now is not to demand or lovebust! You can only deplete love units fromt he bank right now! Very impossible to deposit - but you must try to find out if there is anyway to deposit anything!!!! <P>He has pleasure right now - it is an addiction! His actions are only telling you he doesn't love you - but he more than likely does - he's just in an addiction that is trying to destroy your marriage. You and your husband have something more deep than this addiction - and it is going to take all the strength, love and patience you can muster to help him get deep enough to see it. Nothing you say will help. Only your actions. Change YOUR behavior, and see how his behavior changes also.<P>Read DHJ's thread about plan B - there are some awesome responses there for you.<P>God bless.<P>PS -DHJ's thread about "Boy I need help now -please" is good too!!!! <p>[This message has been edited by trustntruth (edited August 24, 1999).]

tnt,<BR>I haven't contacted Dr. Harley. My H told me earlier that he didn't believe in counselling. And I didn't pursue it because I have no money! He supports me. <BR>I read DHJ's thread on Plan B and its outcomes. I asked him to leave. He doesn't want to probably for financial reasons and our daughter. He won't tell me why he can't move in with the OW. How can I tell him that I've changed my mind now and want him to stay? I also don't understand how you can do Plan A when they're gone.

Can you just tell him that you've been doing some thinking, and realize that you were overreacting that day, and that isn't how you really feel?<P>Plan A means NO lovebusters, and try to meet any emotional need he has. Do you know what they are? Sometimes you have to learn by trial and error.<P>What happens if you let him have the channel selecter and you sit with him and watch a show he wants to watch? Or go fishing with him. Or go together to shoot a game of pool.... That is recreational companionship.<P>Or what happens if you tuck a love note into his lunch sack? Or buy him a picture or something small and significant? Or iron his shirts instead of just hanging them up? Those little affectionate extras? What can you do that changes his behavior? <P>The combination of no lovebusters and doing loving things are plan A. Assertive communication comes next!<BR>

tnt,<BR>I already do those little things like ironing his shirts. He acknowledges that I do these things for him but that it is not enough. His needs? Sex, maybe. Our sex life was virtually non-existent for the past couple years. We went through some difficult times--both his parents died and his estranged sister screwed him royally with the estate. We drifted apart. He was engrossed in his work and I devoted myself to my daughter. Recreational companionship? What's that? We rarely did anything together as a family or as a couple. <BR>But he found the time for an affair. That's what stinks! <BR>I initiated sex on a few occasions (early in his affair) because I was trying to regain some intimacy with him. I realized our marriage was falling apart and I was trying to save it. But it didn't work out and he felt that I was just performing a wife's duty. I even tried shortly after discovery (when we went away to a cottage reunion with friends minus the kids) but I think he just felt sorry for me! Plus he made several hurtful remarks afterwards. It was a mistake I realize now.<BR>I think it's too late now to say to him that I was over-reacting. He's probably already making arrangements!

Don't get mad at me, but it sounds like you are giving up. Don't do it!<P>You can't look for immediate fix's in this relationship. You can't just do something like sex a couple of times, and expect everything to just be better. It is a combination of everything that you do - Maybe this isn't helping me say what I'm trying to say.<P>You are giving a gift - when you do loving things for your H. Do not expect anything in return, if you do - it isn't really a gift. <P>Make the decision to love him without payment, and you will find what works. Do not quit doing things for him, you just have to find which things make a better impact and do those things.<P>If he has taken you up on your demand for him to leave - as almost an excuse - then do your best to impact your marriage future in the ways left.<P>Sheba was in court facing divorce - and she found a way to meet his needs IN COURT!!!! She discovered he had the flu - and decided to use that as an opportunity to love him! Those are the things I'm talking about. Don't do things to get something, do and look for ways to do things to give him unconditional love.<P>And, no lovebusters. That's plan A!<BR>

tnt,<BR>He's gone now... He called me about something this afternoon and said he would understand if I didn't want to do this task for him. I agreed to and asked if he wanted to come for dinner. He really wanted to see our daughter's soccer game so I told him that was okay and then we came home and he packed. <P>We had a talk after our daughter was in bed. I didn't lovebust. He claims that he would have eventually left anyways and that I only speeded things up. He admitted that he has to want to end it. What could I say?!! He claims that he still cares for me and wants to look after both myself and our daughter. But it's me!!! It's not what I can do for him! I have to change. I realize now that my self-esteem is at an all time low and that he just feels sorry for me. He has no respect for me anymore. Maybe now with him gone I can focus on me for a change. <BR>Right now I just want to crawl into a hole and die!! <p>[This message has been edited by Scaredsilly (edited August 24, 1999).]

No no no! You can't do that either! You have a future, and this is a setback, that's all. Your husband is saying only the typical things at this stage! He's not in his right mind! And now that you have the knowledge (and knowledge is power) it is time you start using it!!!!<P>Don't wallow, there is NO time right now!!!! Get busy - do something for you right away, and find ways to deposit as many love units as you can. Your behavior right now is very important. You don't have time or energy to spend wallowing!!!! Fight! Fight and Pray! <P>Do you want me to pray for you? I will be happy to! God listens. God cares. This moment will not last forever.<P>

Somehow I pulled myself together last night and even managed to go to sleep without crying. I did wake up at 4:30 however, missing him. This morning he called, he had forgotten his shaver. He stopped in and I couldn't look at him. I don't think I can bear to see or speak to him right now. <BR>Should I tell him to leave me alone for awhile? I know at some point he will want to see our daughter though. What really works...Plan A or B? I guess B isn't really possible when there are children involved. I'll just play it by ear until I can get my head together.<P>I know that he's not in his right mind. He told me that he's just going through the motions because that's the only way he can function now. He won't tell me where he's staying only that it's a furnished room and that his living expenditures will be minimal. I'm sure that he must be living at her house and I almost hope it's true. There's nothing like the daily grind of everyday life to expose all sides of a personality. <P>Yes, TNT please pray for me. I will pray for you too. How are things with you? You stopped snooping, is that right?

Regardless if you choose plan A or plan B, you can't lovebust. Lovebust is a killer. If you want your marriage to end, then definitely go ahead and lovebust. <P>I know you want it to work, it's just you are sooooo angry. So be as sweet and loving as you know how to be around your husband, and come here and tell us what a jerk he is! We won't tell on you! <P>Well, I did snoop into the wallet last week and found double lunch charges for his expense cards. Subway gave him 2 coupons, and they were pasted on the card without being torn apart. The Chinese Buffet will only stamp one card for each person. He has 3 cards in his truck. I can't read Chinese - so I don't have dates....<P>He's been locking his wallet up in his truck every night again, it could be because he forgets it.<P>The other morning, he left for work - packing his bag to be gone for 3 days (He works out of town every other week.) He definitely is behind, and I understand him having to go out of town and get a little caught up. But, 1.5 hours after he left he called home and asked if he left his wallet here. I figured he was on his way to South Dakota, a 5+ hour drive. I offered to drive his wallet to him. I asked where he was at - and he said he was almost at his office - he wasn't headed to SD after all. I told him I'd bring him the wallet. He said, no that is okay. He drove back home to get it. Then he said he had to go back to his office, and he'd be leaving for SD at noon. (It was about 10:30 am).... Then he called at 3 and said he never left his office, and he'd be going to SD at 2 in the morning...That he was behind.... Said his boss was going with him, and they were meeting along the way at 3:30 am at the casino....<P>I didn't go through his wallet when I had the chance, I decided I would let this go for a week or so, and decide if it is PMS or if it is really some funny stuff to check out.<P>We are under a lot of stress, and we are getting along pretty good. I don't want to make a wrong move right now, if there is OW on the side - it could send him right back into her arms.<P>I'm trying to use my knowledge and new Plan A skills to keep myself under control, and think before I act.<P>I pray I'm just suspicious.

Hi Scared<P>I am so sorry for your troubles. At some point your H will withdrawl all love from your bank. He will keep on taking as long as you give. You need to decide when you can not take it anymore because you will just not care at some point. When it comes to the point where you just HATE him, then the marriage will be over.<P>You may need to start Plan B. If you are forced to keep him at the house for financial reasons then treat him like a room mate. Set up a room and tell him to live there. If this is too hard to live like this then file for Divorce.<P>I am sorry I don't know about your ability to earn a living but you may want to start thinking about being on your own. It is scary and very hard but you can do it. You will surprise yourself, I am sure. <P>Life sucks when you live like this, it is not worth it. I feel so sorry for people who are stuck like this. They lose site of their own self being. Don't lose respect for yourself. You deserve better and there are better people out there for you. Be strong, stand tall and make yourself proud.<P>Good Luck<BR>_____________________________________________<BR>"Better to die on your feet than live on your knees"

tnt,<BR>I admire your patience and restraint. I hope that you are just being overly suspicious too.<P>toronto,<BR>I am in Plan B now. He has moved out. He knows that I couldn't bear the thought of him living here as a room-mate. He will support me until I find a job and afterwards if necessary. We haven't mentioned divorce at this point.<P>I sent him an e-mail today at work telling him to leave me alone for awhile. It's too painful to see him right now and I need some time to get my head together. I have to be strong for my daughter. <P>I'm finding in his absence that the anger has dissipated and has been replaced with sorrow. I can't hate him. We have been through too much together. We have known each other for 23 years.<P>I will try Plan A from a distance if possible once I get back on my feet.