Hi Cerri,<p>I haven't been able to write - very busy. I have lots to talk about but can't do it today. We have the first meeting with MC today. I wn't be back to a computer until monday. If you dont's have anything better to do (ha, ha) please do write about when you caught him again during recovery. That is my great fear. Also the private email. Thanks so much.<p>SpyWife

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SpyWife2002:
<strong>Hi Cerri,<p>I haven't been able to write - very busy. I have lots to talk about but can't do it today. We have the first meeting with MC today. I wn't be back to a computer until monday. If you dont's have anything better to do (ha, ha) please do write about when you caught him again during recovery. That is my great fear. Also the private email. Thanks so much.<p>SpyWife</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I swear, we really do have parallel lives! This week and next, are the weeks from hell. Kids have doc appts, music lessons, stuff. All at the most inconvenient times, naturally.<p>I agreed to mentor/hostess one of the Miss Prescott pageant contestants... (and I am philosopohically opposed to pageants ! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] ) That is Mon - Thur 6:30 - 9:30 pm this week and next.<p>I have a hearing tomorrow in St. Cloud which is about 2 hours from here (9am) for my divorce which was final in March of 99. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Business is still not sold, so I own part of a very profitable business from which I have received nothing since 1997. <p>Oh. And I'm trying to get my own business off the ground. Without owning a computer or a printer that work well.<p>Yes, the story is funny. You will love it. I haven't forgotten your email. It's just that I only get these 20 minute snippets of time, and I want to give it some thought [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Have a good weekend. I'll be here next week. It's an addiction...<p>"Hi, I'm Cerri and I'm an MBaholic" [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>C

Hi and welcome to Monday [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Ok, I only have a few minutes so I'll try to squeeze in this story.<p>D-day was in March of '99., when the phone bill came. I think I told you about it before. Then came all the hunting and digging and confronting and crying and lying and more hunting and digging and.........<p>One day we were at his d's soccer game. It was hot, my back was killing me, the kids were crabby, his d was being a brat, and I hate soccer. So, I left and went to the car to read. Except I was just pi**ed. So I sat there being cranky and fuming about everything.<p>And then this plan came to me, complete, out of the blue. Except for the name, which took me a little bit to get just the right one.<p>I went home, and the next day opened a new email account with a fictious name.... Tara Andersen..... young blonde flirty sounding, but still like a real Minesota name.<p>Then I sent him an email that said something like,"Last year you replied to an ad in the Pioneer Press personals. SWF looking for older man for discretionary fun in the TC. Shortly after that, I started a new job and moved to a new apartment. I'm now looking again. Are you still interested?"<p>Now, this was in July. And he was telling me daily how he was faithful, never looked at other women, was so sorry, and would never do anything like that to me again. ...... And I believed him!!!! We even talked about what he would do if he felt tempted to stray.<p>I was at the library with him, in the other room when he got the message. I could tell by the energy just beating off him that he was feeling something icky. I asked him more than once if he was ok, and if he wanted to talk about anything. I really thought that he wouldn't do the wrong thing.<p>So, later that day, I make up an excuse and run to the library to check my email. Imagine my horror when I say a reply titled "Wants to meet"<p>In it he said that he was still interested and asked that "Tara" reply to a different email... one I didn't know anything about. <p>My initial intent was to play this out and set up a place to meet and confront him there, but I was so angry I couldn't hold it in.<p>So, I went home and I said, "I guess it's fitting that the day this all began is the day it seems it's going to end." (It was the anniversary of the day we met online)<p>He says,"What are you talking about?"<p>"I wanted to see if I could trust you, so I made up a little test."<p>"Yes," he says, still completely in the dark.<p>"I did something to see how you would respond, and you failed." And, I'm crying really hard by now.<p>"Honey, what is it, just tell me!"<p>"There is no Tara Andersen. I set you up."<p>OMG... it's the only time in my life I have ever seen anyone turn literally white. <p>Yep, I busted him good. And I got the password to the secret email, and found some other good things.<p>I don't think he's ever recovered. I tell him every now and again that I am way smart enough to set him up again. So every time he's tempted, he better wonder if it's real or if it's me!!!<p>Gotta run... kids and pageant call [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Cerri

Hi Cerri,<p>Thanks for writing. I've been busy. I had a litter of Golden Retriever pup on Thursday night. Well, I didn't - my dog did. She had 11 but we lost one. They are very sweet. Need a pup?<p>We did get the no contact letters sent out - that took forever to come to agreement on, but now we can move on.<p>We went to the MC - I have to tell you, when we were looking for one, I asked him is he had a gender prference and he said that it didn't matter as long as she had good legs and big boobs. Well, I'm sure he didn't knjow beforehand, but this one matches that description. I didn't care for her. She listend alot, and said that we have alot of mutual trust issues. We do. It seemed to me that she wants to go about fixing the marriage and the affair/SA stuff is kind of secondary. To me it's the other way around - until we address the SA, I am not moving home, or combining money or any of that. I'm not even sure I am staying until the SA has been addressed to my satisfaction.<p>She did recommend that he go to the Meadows for an assesment. Are you familiar with the meadowns and Partick Carnes? It is about an hour from here, and they really do awesome work there. He appeared to consent to that, but when I asked him later he said he can't afford $50,000 treatment. That is a 6 week inpatient price, they have many alternative treatments but he has not looked into it.<p>She said that I can't do it for him. She said that I am an enabler and that I am doing his work for him, such as the SA groups in town, etc. I suppose that could be true, so I have stapped back to allow him to handle this, however he isn't.<p>Also, did I tell you about the wedding ring - how he tossed it accross the hotel room at the 6 month Inet chicks request? Well he never found it, so I asked him to get another one. He said that he will negotiate it. That we shouldn't be living apart, etc. Let me tell you, I wear mine beacuse I want to and I love him - it's not a negotiation. It is more important to me than him. I guess I need to drop that for now - plus, wearing it before certainly didn't keep him out of trouble.
I'm frustrated that more isn't getting done. He has now finished Surviving an Affair, and we are both currently reading Torn Asunder. The questionarres are completed and read, but not discussed. We have dance recitals all week, so probably won't get much done on this mess until next week.<p>Liked your story about catching him cheating. I nearly did something like that when I found out and it was still going on. Something to keep up my sleeve I suppose. I'm not good and playing things out though - like you confronting him right away. If I could control my emotions and thing things through first, I could handle them much more to my advantage. Like when I found his stiff back in March. I'm learning - slowly.

A couple of other things - he did change his phone number, but has backed down on the travel issue. He said that he could ask to not travel and that other have done that - now he says he doesn't know - that we can talk about it later.<p>I guess I am unhappy with theamount of follow through that I am seeing. It makes me think that I did the right thing by moving out.

I appreciate you taking time to write to me while you are so busy with the pageant and stuff. Do you have a child in the pageant or how did you get roped into that one?<p>Good for you about your own business - is it counselling? I read the persistent thread for awhile last week and it seems that you are pretty famous around here. Makes me even happier to have your advice. :-)

When you said that you went to court about your divorce - was hat your previous husband? You are still married to the one we have been talking about aren't you?

OK, gotta go, talk to you sonn. Remember the email if you have some time - I'm interested in your take on that.

Have a good day.<p>SpyWife

Hi [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Need a pup?
<p>LOL noooooo. We have one dog, three cats, one rabbit, one horse.... and a partridge in a pear treeeeeee. I fantasize about the day when the pets and the kids are gone!<p>She said that I can't do it for him. She said that I am an enabler and that I am doing his work for him, such as the SA groups in town, etc.
<p>Ok, I don't like her already. Plus, the way she looks.... huh uh.... I wouldn't sit through that kind of situation with H now, years later. <p>until we address the SA, I am not moving home, or combining money or any of that. I'm not even sure I am staying until the SA has been addressed to my satisfaction.<p>Oh yes, I agree! In any relationship problems where there is an addiction in the picture, the addiction needs to be addressed before anything else can happen. That's common knowledge.<p>Well he never found it, so I asked him to get another one. He said that he will negotiate it. <p>Well, negotiating is not a bad idea. I'm not sure if you are at the point where that is possible. but the idea is that you end up with a solution that in its entirety makes you both happy at the same time.
What you cannot do is demand that he wear the ring, or say bad things about him or his character. You are free to think whatever you want [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] but you cannot be disrespectful to him.<p>I posted a thread on negotiating guidelines at EN quite a while ago. If you are interested I can resurrect it for you. It has some good stuff I got from SH.<p>I guess I am unhappy with theamount of follow through that I am seeing. It makes me think that I did the right thing by moving out.<p><p>Yes!!! Never doubt that. If you hadn't your chances of recovery would be pretty slim. The thing is, until he agrees to do ALL of what it takes in order to repair and restore the M, it won't happen. Some things, like the no travel and the accountability are NOT negotiable. He will say that he feels like an outlaw and that you don't trust him. Well, of course you don't!!<p>When you said that you went to court about your divorce - was hat your previous husband? You are still married to the one we have been talking about aren't you?<p>Yes, and yes. It was awful. <p>No, no kid in the pageant. I would not have supported my D doing that!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I've mellowed slightly from my extreme militant feminist stance. A friend asked me if I would take over for a hostess that dropped out. After being challenged in several different areas of my life and by different people about my views on women and power, I took it as a gift from the goddess to learn something.<p>I think I'm learning that I need to go to bed earlier than pageant practice allows!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Cerri

Hi again....

>one dog, three cats, one rabbit, one horse.... and a partridge in a pear treeeeeee. <p>I have a zoo also. <p>>I am an enabler and that I am doing his work for him, such as the SA groups.....Ok, I don't like her already. Plus, the way she looks.... huh uh.... I wouldn't sit through that kind of situation <p>Yeah. I'm unimpressed. Furthermore, she has never heard of Marriage Builders, His Needs, Her Needs or Dr. Harley. It seems to me that someone "in the business" should be aware of what is out there,and Harley seems to me fairly well known. Also, by keeping me out of the SA loop and letting him do it himself, I cannot be sure that all of the issues are being presented and addressed. <p>>the addiction needs to be addressed before anything else can happen. That's common knowledge.<p>I agree that it is common knowledge. We are going back to her this week. We will see where it goes.
>What you cannot do is demand that he wear the ring, <p>He says that if he had it, he would wear it. I thought about getting him a new one for fathers day, but I thought that might be counter-productive and certainly not a traditional fathers day gift. He want to negotiate along the lines of, you move home, I'll wear a ring, but we are far from that since he hasn't even begun to address the problem. I guess I need to drop it, for now. I'd rather have him in treatment than wearing a ring, but I'd really love both.<p>>I posted a thread on negotiating guidelines at EN quite a while ago. If you are interested I can resurrect it for you.<p>Thanks, I would appreciate that. I could probably look all day and not find it. I do into these other forums and get caught up in it and read for hours. I apparently have an addiction of my own. :-)<p>>Yes!!! Never doubt that. If you hadn't your chances of recovery would be pretty slim. The thing is, until he agrees to do ALL of what it takes in order to repair and restore the M, it won't happen. <p>Do you really think so? He acts as though, I should be home, supporting him. I just know it would have been swept under the rug and I would be a paranoid psycho-wife (well I guess I have become that anyway). Thanks for the reassurance.<p>>Yes, and yes. It was awful. <p>So tell me - do you trust him now? Are you always looking over his shoulder?<p>>No, no kid in the pageant. I would not have supported my D doing that!! <p>They are a bit over the top. My children have never taken an interest, thank goodness.<p>More tomorrow.<p>Spy Wife

SpyWife-<p>I heard from a certain witch [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] that you are looking for ways to verify that your husband is keeping his promises. You having moved out does complicate this a little I think, especially if your H is not being cooperative. The computer activity is fairly easy to monitor, especially as long as your H is willing to cooperate with the monitoring activity. I was told that the courts would not likely hold against you any monitoring you did of your own home computer, even if your spouse did not know this was happening. However, since you have moved out, the computer is not really yours anymore, is it? If you can get your H to agree, you can find a few different software packages that will help you monitor his activity. I used software from SpectorSoft and was able to use it in stealth mode so other computer users did not know there activity was being monitored. I had the activity report email to a separate e-mail account that I set up. The software was easy to install and set-up. It is password protected so that even if someone knows it is operating in the background, they can not change the operation of the software. If you can not get access to your H's computer, then this may not be a viable option for you. If your H has access to computers other than the one at home, this software would not help you to be able to monitor his other useage either.<p>What else? Well, I found out that the FCC really, really frowns on phone tapping unless all parties agree to this prior to any conversation. There really isn't too much that anyone will do to you though if you just set a recorder up in a room and tape conversations that take place in that room. The same with placing a recording device in a vehicle. Using voice activited sytems (VOX) helps conserve tape. However, you can end up with a lot of tape to listen to. Again, if you are clearly not living in the same house as your H, you might not want to do this either.<p>Apparently, phone companies can tell you who calls into your home and what calls are made out of the home but most will require a subpeona before releasing this information. In order to get a subpeona, you'll need some kind of case before the court, like a having filed for divorce (my situation).<p>One thing you might be able to get your H to agree to do is to call you frequently to let you know his plans and how long various stops/visits will take. However, the WS soon tires of this if their heart isn't into the whole accountability routine.<p>Oh, I forgot to mention mail and phone cards. Many phone card companies will provide you with some phone history information if you have all of the necessary account numbers. Some will not however, without a court subpeona. If you are concerned about mail that you H is receiving, you can probably open it without necessarily getting his permission. However, I'd check with a lawyer in your area first. No one (except my W) had a problem with me opening mail coming to my house from a man in jail up on three felony charges. My W soon figured this out and had surface mail sent to another location that I could not access.<p>Having to keep tabs on your spouse just doesn't seem fair. It is an added expense. It takes a lot of extra time and energy that you'd rather spend on your kids or in other ways. RedHat and others may have additional experience they can share with you as far as trying to keep tabs on your H.<p>Best to you. I understand the hard place you are in. {{{{{{SpyWife}}}}}}}<p>HoFS

Here is the link to the POJA/negotating thread. I do a half day workshop on this topic [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Link to POJA thread

HofFenceSitter -<p>Thanks for the info. I know that moving out makes this more difficult, but it also allows me to be sane.:-)<p>At this point monitoring computer activity is not an option. I've caught him at that before so he is careful to use his work laptop instead of the home PC for all of Internet Activity.<p>I have thought about VOX, and wish I had done it months ago.<p>As far as phone tapping, he uses his cell phone for his "activities" so that doesn't work either, but the vox would help here, of course you only catch half of the conversation.<p>I don't know if Cerri told you about my idea for a GPS skin implant, but I'm not sure he'd consent to that.<p>He has been fairly good at letting me know where is going, and when he is coming back, etc. Although once you know that deceit is present, then you end up putting your trust into where they say they will be without having trust in your heart. In other words, if he's lying, this is an easy lie.<p>It isn't fair to have keep track of him. And you are right, I have better things to do with my time yet if we are putting work into this marriage I need to know that the other stuff isn't continuing.<p>Thanks for your ideas and experience.<p>Spy Wife

Hey Cerri,<p>Thanks for the link, I'll check it out. Thanks also for talking to HofFence Sitter on my behalf. <p>We are back to the MC today, but I don't feel good about it. He hasn't done the things that he was supposed to do, and I can't address the basic marriage stuff until I am confortable with that. He and I have some time tonight and this weekend so maybe we can work through the questionares.<p>I won't be back until Monday, so good luck with the pageant and enjoy the father'sday weekend.<p>Oh yeah - I found a nice coanon group that deals exclusively with SA. I's very supportive and lots there that I can identify with. If you are interested, I'll send you a link.<p>Take care,
Spy Wife<p>PS - Thanks for the private email - I'll write back soon.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SpyWife2002:
[QB]Hey Cerri,<p>[quote]
Oh yeah - I found a nice coanon group that deals exclusively with SA. I's very supportive and lots there that I can identify with. If you are interested, I'll send you a link.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, please [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Gotta go, makeup and dress rehearsal night!!! )<p>C

Hello SW & Cerri,<p>I hope you do not mind my jumping in like this, but of the entire board, your stories have a couple of elements that are like mine, namely the use of prostitutes, even though only when he is completely blinded by alcohol.<p>Though, everything else is different (eg we're not married nor do we have kids, but we've been together for 9-10 yrs, we didn't meet on the net either as we were high school sweethearts).
Nevertheless, I am very interested to see what you ladies would say or ask:<p>(1) The only one OW
(who had a major crush on him, but he told her he did not see her that way. He thought he was strong enough to not be seduced by her for he did not find her attractive, but was wrong when we were having problems just 4-5 mths ago and he got drunk with her when she begged him for emotional support when she was dumped- many contradiction in her story, but he just trusted her since she pretended to give him good advice on our situation, eg. she's going to do fine wihtout you so stop stringing her along. She thought I wanted marriage NOW, but I think she just wanted us to break up)<p>(2) The 2 main prostitutes whom he saw only 3 times each, but decided to stop because it was stupid, he didn't want for there to be any connections made. Just physical when he was drunk, upset with our differences, and confused (have you read the thread on monogamy vs polygamy?)<p>The other thing that plagues my mind are the thoughts and images of how a person can do such a thing to someone they declare to love?
He said he was on a destructive path.
Didn't think he was worth loving.
He had only bad role models and bad "friends" when it started.<p>Now, he is trying in every way to prove his love to me and earn my trust, eg. passwords, requesting private information that are archived such as old phone bills so I can see when he did fall from grace, and now promising time for me to ask him anything I want, etc.<p>This all still not enough for me because I have had to be patient with him (3-4 mths) and it isn't done with umph or as immediately as I want it.

Hi Cerri,<p>You may not agree with all of the concepts here...there is a lot of "tough love", "don't do it for him" thinkers here. I have found support here though and many, many people who are in the same boat as us.<p>SARR.ORG is the web site, but I didn't find lots there. This snippet is from the Partners page, with a link to apply. It's a very private group that you must answer questions to, to be allowed access. It does give you a sense of safety in posting there though.<p>
Co/Anon Email List Group: (Now on SARR!) E-mail Forum for Friends and Family Members of People Addicted to Sex Partners, family members and friends of people addicted to sex and/or love can join this e-mail discussion list where we share our experience, strength and hope with one another. We can talk about our own co-dependency and co-addiction, and gain support in dealing with someone else's compulsive/obsessive sexual behavior. This list is closed for the group's safety. We use an application form to screen new members, and we provide guidelines for sharing.<p>This forum is open to people who are in COSA, S-Anon, CoSLAA, etc., or those who think a twelve-step program could help them in dealing with the sexually addictive behavior of a loved one. To receive a group description and application, please send a blank email to coanon-subscribe@sarr.org. If you have difficulty, contact list admin directly at coanon-owner@sarr.org and request that an application be sent you you.

Please be aware that all emails and applications are responded to within 24 hours. If you encounter any delay, please contact the list administrator directly at coanon-owner@sarr.org. Also, keep in mind that should any delay occur, this is usually an indication of a temporary email server delay, or due to thunderstorms or other weather that
prevents list admin from accessing their mail. Please rest assured that we will respond as quickly as possible, usually within 6-12 hours, and that these delays are seldom and infrequent.

Cerri,<p>So, is the pagent over - and did you make it through alright? Our dance recitals are over and so now I can get back to whatever I was doing before. I think that was drowning myself in post-affair literature.<p>Hey, bookfriend...I was at Borders on Thursday and found very little on SA partner books. I bought something like "Living with your husbands secret wars", but didn't find much else that looked like where I am at. What PostA (that address SA) books can you recommend? I building quite a library. I have a 12 step book store near me, and I haven't checked there yet. I hate going in there because I get lost for a couple of hours finding ways to improve my life.<p>Counseling was Thursday, and I still think she is a crummy therapist. I may have to tell her that one day soon. H kept getting off-topic and ranting about other things, interrupting me and pushing buttons. It was brutal and afterwards I had no desire to talk to him until his arrogance had subsided. That set him off on a three-day silent treatment, which would have gone on much longer had I not harrassed him into talking to me. I'm thinking co-dependent behavior and it didn't feel nice.<p>He came over lst night, still arrogant, still topic-jumping, non-appologetic. Met his little SF needs (ok so I have a little SF needs too, but not obcessive), and I'm not currently too happy with the state of the relationship.<p>SpyWife<p>PS, I'll get back to personal email today or tomorrow.

Hi Eli,<p>You are welcome to join us.<p>My H used alcohol as a justification for the prostitutes too. Trouble with that is he is still drinking alot so what comfort does that provide?<p>When was the OW and the prostitutes. When and how did you find out?<p>>have you read the thread on monogamy vs polygamy?)<p>I haven't. I'll have to look it up, but I am spending WAY too much time on line with this stuff already<p>>The other thing that plagues my mind are the thoughts and images of how a person can do such a thing to someone they declare to love?<p>It's the images that haunt me too. Seems like the only time they go away is when there is a new one to replace the previous worst one.<p>>This all still not enough for me because I have had to be patient with him (3-4 mths) and it isn't done with umph or as immediately as I want it. <p>I guess this is where I am at...almost three months, lots of talk and not alot of action.<p>Cerri will probably have more constructive advice for you, she is going to make a good counselor, whereas I'm going to make a good loony-bin cantidate. :-)<p>SpyWife

Hey gals!!<p>The more the merrier. <p>The pageant is over, thank the goddess!!!... <p>I don't have any time today, but will check in tomorrow. <p>Hope all is well....or as well as can be expected [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Blessings,<p>Cerri

Thanks Ladies for allowing me to be apart of your support group for a while.
Sorry for the length.<p>Maybe I can bullet pt it:
·Got together 10 ys ago.
·Cheated at friend's b-day party, all the girls came on to him. Not making excuses, but I know this to be true. I saw him mobbed by a group of girls just before we started dating. This was only revealed to me recently. Said he believes because of this one lie, he didn’t give us a good start.
·Cheated on me for a few mths, a 1.5 yrs later. I decided to do another yr in h. school as I didn't know what degree to take. He was old enough to drink (not me), so went out with a bad bunch of guys a lot. Separate lives.
·Many things in his life at this time, father left his mother when he was 5 yo, had many partners thereafter, was having probs with the one at the time, advice to 18-19 yo son was to [censored] everything he could, step-father whom his mother was divorcing at that time was a SA (porn, prostitutes, affairs) –made him watch porn at 12-13 age, moved out of home because his mother was an emotional wreck, all the guys he hung out with drank, did drugs, and egged him on by saying she’ll never find out. One guy in particular, because he held a torch for me for over 5 yrs. Told me how he would call this guy the next day and ask him why he’d encourage him, this guy would say “I tell you to, but it’s not like you had to”.
·He confessed to this cheating on his own.
·1.5 yrs later one kiss (didn’t know diff time till recently as he grouped this with the next one), 6 mth later when I was O/S kissed another. Confessed when I got back and said he thought we were broken up for good, even though we talked every night while I was away.
·3 yrs later (or 4 yrs ago) a girl he met through the same guys came onto him at a sleep over. He did like her, but didn’t expect her to be so easy. First sexual encounter (1 other at the 1.5 yr mark, but he just put condom on, in, and came in 1 sec). He believes because he crossed this line our relationship was doomed. We’d never make it, but didn’t want to tell me because he did want to lose me. (I’m still not convinced, but reading the stuff here, it seems some people have a warped sense of reasoning or what I see as excuses to do what ever they want).
·Continued to go out, and drank even more!!! And, prostitution began. Said he didn’t want an affair. Would never care or loved anyone as much as me. Admits all he wanted was sex, and some time it was to experience with someone else. Knew he could just break up with me, but wanted his cake and eat it too. It wasn’t every weekend, but in total he first guessed less than 20 times, but I won’t believe this without proof.
·I moved states over 2 yrs ago, he followed 3-4 mths after.
·Didn’t do anything for 7 mths.
·Okay the big one is coming up. Last xmas we staring fighting a lot about our double lives (him going out every weekend getting drunk, and me staying home or going to my sisters’ place).
·Went home for xmas, he had one night during that time, I didn’t see him for 4-5 days out of 7. We came back, I thought things were getting better because New Yrs was great and we were more intimate, but he said he wanted time and space. Yes, I read what Dr. Harleys wrote. Don’t you wish you knew that that was a telltale sign? Anyway, I made him clarify what he wanted: break-up or short-term separation? He said the latter.
·Out on Wed., friends and father came up for long weekend, called prostitute Fri after out and drunk with friends. Reflects that perhaps he wanted to be caught, so that it could be out in the open. Well, the friend’s girl-friend did see it all, but never confronted him nor did she tell me (even though she has known me for 14 yrs).
·Okay, here we go. Following Wed, he invited a male friend for dinner (whom I know, but he was very ill). This girl who he met 8 mths ago on a previous wk pub crawl calls him up for support because she was dumped by a guy she’s been in love with for 4 mths. She wanted him that very first time she saw him. He only admitted that he was flattered and had a flinting thought about her when he was drunk that night. But he told her about me straight away. They did take some drugs that night and went back to her place to talk. He said nothing happened because he really didn’t find her that attractive, and all he talked about was me all night. He told her how much he loved me, how upset he was about having to go out on his own, how my family still didn’t accept him after so many yrs. All these things were real LB’s for him wanting to be with me, and of course how he was confused about how a guy could love someone so much and still wonder about other people.
·By the sound of things, she pretended to give him advice, but it all led to us not being together (e.g. she’ll be fine without you).
·He saw her two other times, same conversation.
·On this night, she asked him for drinks, and got him to invite her over by making him feel guilty for her having to go home alone.
·He said he didn’t feel good about it, but thought he was not attracted to her, she knew me, and how he felt about me, and he had not cheated on me with anyone he knew, so he was strong enough. They got drunk as a skunk, and she kept sprawling all over the lounge right next to him. He said he did avoid her when he still had some bearings and he didn’t think it would happen till they kissed, but then he got the urge for sex when she kept putting her breast in the air (this part is my imagination).
·He said it was really bad as she really was even more ugly underneath than he would ever have thought, but she asked him to do something that he had fantasised about, that I never was willing. He didn’t come. B4 she left she said “I won’t tell a soul”.
·This was where the story ended, and he failed to finish off that somehow (he can’t remember for the life of him) they ended up upstairs in the spa for another very short round, and again he could come. He though it was just more of the same info.<p>I’ve met this girl, and she is a self-centred bimbo (not my words, but 8 other friends’ words), her sister is known as the office slut where my guy used to wk, and she seems to be the same (though the stories only started coming out recently from her own mouth, she told him how she slept with some guy only a couple of weeks b4, and I called her the weekend b4 she came on to my guy and she was telling me how she was trying to get hooked up with a guy in another state. My guy later told me she told him about this too and said she didn’t get any that night. So, how is it that she was “in love” with this guy who dumped her?).
None of this came out until last weekend when I told him to tell me more or I won’t continue.
He has been saying that it was completely mutual because he didn’t want to take the blame away from himself. But, he said this particular act has made him see now that it wasn’t other people that he wanted most of the time, he was unhappy, and he has a slight case of SA. Also, as he hardly knew anyone in this new state whom he could talk about this stuff to he said to this girl that that was all he wanted from her, nothing else. I do believe him here, though again if only we knew the things preached by Dr. Harley about spending time with the opposite sex other than your partner.
He said after this he was going to confess to me everything in two doses, but I got to him first. Don’t know if I believe this, but if history is anything to go by, he did confess himself in the early yrs. My intuition was driving me insane at the time, but I never thought his was the outcome. Just thought he was interested in someone else.<p>He has change a lot since then. He no longer has more than a few drink when we go out, we’ve stopped going out as much, he no longer has the urge to go out, his living space is kept clean & tidy, he is balancing his finances.<p>We saw a counsellor together a few times, but didn’t really work. I can’t find someone like Dr. Harley in my country, and I can’t afford the rate charged for TC. I’ve tried to write to the crew and nothing.
Also, he’s been tested (clean) and he called up and asked for archived phone bills for the entire 4 yrs as it was in his name and I couldn’t lie to retrieve it.<p>Now, I am stuck with resentment, and anger at this OP. I know it takes 2 to tango, but if you knew this person you’d be sure that it was orchestrated.
I fell like she’s gotten away scot-free. I don’t believe she has any pain about it because she got what she wanted, sex and a guy who kept saying to her he loves his girl and doesn’t want anything like that with her.<p>Also, there was one prostitute back in the other state who offered him unprotected sex the first time she met him. What’s that?
The second time he said no (could come), but the third he went with it.
He’s never seen any other 3 times or more, except one other (another 3 timer), because the pt was not an affair, just sex. Obviously, these two made it past once because they were your porn-like pros.<p>I really want to hurt him as much as he’s hurt me, and I want to ask the pros why? Isn’t it bad enough that these pathetic guys are paying you for sex, do they have to make it worse by offering unsafe sex? Also, I need to get this b*tch back somehow.<p>What would you two do?
How do I get pass the images?
How do I subside the resentment?
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Hi Eli,
Wow. So sorry to hear all that. And sorry for all the pain and misery. I hope you don't mind if I ask some questions. <p>And Spywife, I hope it's ok if this hijacks your thread a little? (if you've read some of Persistant's you know what could happen [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>First Eli, it helps for others to read if you can put some space in between some thoughts [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I had laser surgery a month ago, and my eyes still are a little tender [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Ok, so.... what country are you in, if you don't mind me asking?<p>Are you married? It sounds like not.<p>If you're not, do you and your s/o have some type of commitment to monogamy specified?<p>I'm assuming neither of you has children?<p>How old are each of you?<p>Are you near your families?<p>What is the end result that you're looking for? <p>After all the crap that he's done, what is it that makes you want to stay?<p>How much of this site (not the boards, but articles, Q/A, concepts, etc.) have you read?<p>I'm thinking that you are not living together right now? Have you ever?<p>I'm here every morning this week between 9 and 11, by 7yo got kicked off the summer school bus so I am the chauffeur [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Cerri

SpyWife2002:<p>My H used alcohol as a justification for the prostitutes too. <p>This seems to be fairly common. My h did the same thing. When he was in one of his earlier anger mgt. classes, he mentioned that he used p's but only when drunk. The cousellor challenged him on that and said that he believed he got drunk for the express purpose of having sex. Interesting, and I believe, very true.<p>H is pretty reserved unless he is drinking. I think it was part of the ritual of illicit sex. and there's always a ritual. <p>
It's the images that haunt me too. Seems like the only time they go away is when there is a new one to replace the previous worst one.<p>This does get better, but it takes a long time. I'm not sure the images ever disappear entirely, but the pain does abate. I have to say that even two years and lots of recovery later, I still think of the OW's every single time we are in bed together. <p>Recovery takes up to two years. And the clock starts when ALL the necessary ingredients are in place.So that means no contact letters where appropriate, avenues for 24/7 accoutability in place ( time, money, whereabouts) and plans for eliminating LBers and meeting needs operational. <p>Until those things are part of the package, it's not really an efficient recovery effort. Much time will be lost in backsliding and wheel spinning. <p>I'm finding that we are finally getting protection in line. And it's been more than 2 years since d-day and even longer since the anger problems have been an issue. Need meeting cannot even begin until protection is guaranteed. I should have done Plan B long before now, when I was still in love with my husband. But then hindsight is always better. <p>I'm going to make a good loony-bin cantidate. :-)<p>I'll be there waiting for ya at the door!!!! <p>Cerri

Hello Again,<p>"First Eli, it helps for others to read if you can put some space in between some thoughts I had laser surgery a month ago, and my eyes still are a little tender"<p>SORRY, I KNEW IT WOULD BE LONG SO I DID IT IN WORD & PASTED IT IN. <p>Ok, so.... what country are you in, if you don't mind me asking?<p>CAN I JUST SAY IT'S NOT AMERICA.<p>Are you married? It sounds like not.<p>WE'RE NOT MARRIED. I BELIEVE THIS WAS AN ISSUE HE NEVER DEALT WITH AND WAS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE IN VALUES FOR US. AS MENTIONED, HIS FATHER LEFT HIS MOTHER WHEN HE WAS 4-5 YS, AND DIDN'T COME BACK TILL HE WAS 14. HIS FATHER WENT FORM WOMAN TO WOMAN, AND HIS MOTHER HAD ANOTHER BAD MARRIAGE WITH A SA.
IT MADE HIM BELIEVE THAT THE MARRIAGE INSTITUTE WASN'T WORKABLE.<p>If you're not, do you and your s/o have some type of commitment to monogamy specified?<p>MY IC SAID I WAS A RIGHTEOUS, MORAL, HIGH VALUE, DISCIPLINED PERSON. HE SAID I PROBABLY INTIMIDATE PEOPLE WITH MY STANDARDS & VALUES. SO, POLYGAMY IS NOT IN MY VOCABULARY. ALSO, WE TALKED ABOUT MARRIAGE AND COMMITTMENT FROM THE BEGINNING.
THOUGH, I KNOW ALL THE GUYS AROUND HAVE ISSUES WITH IT.<p>I'm assuming neither of you has children?<p>NO.<p>How old are each of you?<p>WE'RE IN OUR MID 20'S, SO HE WAS ONLY 23-ISH WHEN HE DID THE REALLY BAD THINGS, WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY SOME OF THE PROS OFFERED UNSAFE SEX. HE'S YOUNG, SUCCESSFUL & DECENT-LOOKING.<p>Are you near your families?<p>NO, ONLY A SISTER HERE.<p>What is the end result that you're looking for? <p>I TOLD HIM ABOUT A DREAM I HAD OF US BEING REALLY OLD TOGETHER. HE CRIED, AND SAID HE HAD MORE TO CONFESS AND THAT HE THOUGHT I DESERVED SOMEONE BETTER.<p>After all the crap that he's done, what is it that makes you want to stay?<p>IN THE EARLY YRS, HE USED TO CATCH BUSES FOR 3 HRS JUST SO HE COULD SPEND AN HR WITH ME. HE WAS THE ONE WHO OPENED MY MIND & SPIRITUALITY.
I STAYED B4 BECAUSE IT NEVER GOT TO SEX. NOW, I STAY BECAUSE HE SAYS HE NOW KNOWS THAT THERE WILL NEVER BE ANYONE ELSE FOR HIM LIKE ME. <p>HE ADMITS THAT IF I LEFT IT WOULD TAKE HIM A LONG TIME TO FIND SOMEONE ELSE WHO HE'D LOVE HALF AS MUCH. HE'S DOING ALL THE RIGHT THINGS, AND I THINK HE HAS LEARNT HIS MISTAKE. THERE ISN'T ANYTHING THAT HE WON'T DO THAT I ASK. BUT, I CAN'T FORGIVE AS YET.
HE SAID HE'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES, AND WAIT FOR AS LONG AS I NEED. <p>HE HAS NO UNCERTAINTIES AT ALL ANYMORE.<p>How much of this site (not the boards, but articles, Q/A, concepts, etc.) have you read?<p>I'VE READ THE SAA ARTICLES (WAITING FOR THE BOOK), RADICAL HONESTY BECAUSE IT IS BASICALLY HOW I'VE ALWAYS LIVED MY LIFE, AND HE'S AGREED TO DO ALL THIS (IE SAA, OUT OF THE SHADOWS & COUNSELLING) WITH ME.<p>I'm thinking that you are not living together right now? Have you ever?<p>MY BACKGROUND FORBID MY TO LIVE WITH HIM BACK HOME. ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT MADE BUSTED HIS COMMITTMENT TO OUR RELATIONSHIP (BESIDES FROM NEVER BEING INVITED TO ANY FAMILY DO'S, OR EVEN ALLOWED INTO THE HOUSE).
BUT, WHEN HE MOVE HERE WE GOT A PLACE TOGETHER 5 MTHS AFTER. THAT WAS LAST YR, WE SHARED A PLACE FOR A YR.<p>AS I SAID, I DID A LOT OF THINGS AGAINST THE HARLEY'S PHILOSOPHY. I LIVED A SEPARATE LIFE FROM HIM EVEN THOUGH WE SHARED A PLACE.
IT GAVE HIM OPPORTUNITIES TO BRING SOME BACK THERE. THAT'S THE WORSE PART, KNOWING THAT IT HAPPENED IN MY HOUSE.<p>WELL, REGARDING DRINKING SO HE COULD DO IT, HE SAID NO. HE DRANK BECAUSE HE'S BEEN DRINKING AND GOING OUT LIKE THAT FOR 9 YRS (GETTING PROGRESSIVELY WORSE), AND THE OTHER PART HAPPENED WHEN I WAS AWAY. HE WANTED SEX, SO HE CALLED FOR IT.
HE COULD HAVE PICKED UP GIRLS, BUT THEN THERE'D BE INTENTION AND ATTRACTION.
I THINK HE'S MORE OF AN ALCOHOLIC THAN A SA, BUT HE DEFINITELY IS SUFFERING FROM IT. <p>I READ A QUOTE OF THE POPE:
St. Paul admitted: Like an athlete I train my body to do what it should, not what it wants to do. Otherwise, I fear that I myself might be declared unfit. (I Corinthians 9:27).<p>SO, I THINK BECAUSE HE DID NOT CONTROL HIMSELF (DIDN'T TRAIN HIS MIND), IT DEVELOPED A HABIT.
HOW HE CONVINCES ME THAT HABIT IS DEAD, IS AS HARD AS EARNING MY TRUST AGAIN.<p>WELL, LADIES MY ISSUE IS WITH HIM, BUT I THINK I'M IN CONTROL OF THAT ONE.
HOWEVER, I DO NOT HAVE CONTROL OF WHAT I WANT TO DO TO THIS SL*T, AND THE WHORE WHO OFFERED UNPROTECTED SEX.<p>HE SAID TO ME IT'S HIM WHO CALLED FOR IT, BUT I SAY SHE BROKE THE LAW & MADE MATTERS WORSE BY DOING THAT. SOME BLAME GOES TO HER. NO OTHER ONE OFFERED, AND HE WOULD NEVER ASKED FOR IT.<p>PS: DID MY RANTING MAKE SENSE EARLIER?