Again, Thank you! You have been keeping me from losing my mind! I am concerned that my "sister" is trying to get info from my family to try to hurt my H! Why else would she want the e-mails he sent them??? I have had a long conversation with my mother and my "good" sister, and I explained that I will not tolerate any negative comments about my H (although they really don't say much), and I explained that somebody NEEDS to tell "her" flat out that they don't believe her... no more avoiding an answer! They need to tell her that what she is doing is cruel and sick, and she needs to get help NOW! I also made it clear that even though they are mad at my H because of the A, they should damn well support him in regards to her acusation!!! It is about damn time somebody sticks up for him, besides me! My family knows my H, and they loved him very much before this all happened -- it is not fair to abandon him now when he NEEDS their support the most!

I have no idea what she is planning next... which is exactly how she wants it (keep me "scared") She must really be stupid if she does not realize that if she makes an official statement to the police claiming "rape", she could end up in jail when they find out she is lying!!! (which they would!) She is just hell bent on ruining my life, she is NOT thinking clearly!!! This would all blow up in her face! And at this point in time, I feel that is just what she deserves!!!

I don't think I am asking too much of my family! If you KNEW someone in your family was lying... don't you yhink you would call them on it? Especially something THIS brutal! Something that could destroy my H, his career, my M, my children!!! She keeps "picking at the scab" to make sure that nobody in my family can heal (including me!) -- She comes out with a new "plan of attack" every couple of weeks... just to make sure that she keeps everybody wondering what else she has planned!

I can't imagine she would be stupid enough to call the police... but what if she does???

I have forgiven her for the A... but I can't forgive her for all the crap she is pulling now!!!

If she is sooooooo scared of my H (as she has told my mother), why does she keep driving by my house??? Why does she keep asking my mom about my M status??? WHy is she "confused" by the fact that I am moving... shouldn't she be glad???

I can't wait to get out of here!!!

I am so sick of this crap!!! I will not let her destroy my M just because she is a selfish, pathetic person who is so miserable she needs to hurt others!!!

(deep breath)

Thanks!!!

-mcnyh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sue,

You are right on target! Carry on.

MC has she threatened to call the police?

I have a friend who was raped, and they don't usually run around screaming rape. Most of the time they are too embarrassed and humiliated by what happened. They are traumatized. She does not sound traumatized. It takes a while and generally the help of counselors to gain the strenght they need to fight emotionally over the traumatic attack. And some never come forward.

I'm glad you told your family how you felt. Do you think it had an impact?

Mike

Thanks, you have been right on too. You have been giving MC some great advice. I don't know if MC has written the letter you suggested, but she wants you help in it. I don't now if you picked up on it.

Hang in there for her too.

So how hot is it where you are. We don't have central air and I am dripping wet. It is in the 90's here. I will never complain about winter again. Right now, I miss the snow. Bring me a blizzard. (Don't ask me how I feel about snow in January)

Sue -- "she" has not said anything to anyone about calling the police... She can't!!! She would look like a total psycho if she did!!! My family would have to give statements (She knows they don't believe her!!!), and she will look like a lying fool! I think she is just trying to scare us. She and her H like to do this kind of thing (not telling people what they are up to).

IF she is really seeing a counselor, she is lying to her and this doctor could be filling her head with all kinds of crap!!!

I feel sorry for her. She thinks that it is easier to lie, than to admit what she did wrong! When this all blows up in her face, she will look even more evil than she does now... and her big "plan" to remove me from the family will backfire!! She will probably be cut off by at least most of my family for putting me through this!

I think my conversation with my mom and "good" sister may have helped... My "good" sister did say that she might confront "her" about her lies. Although I know she really does not want to get too involved! But, SOMEBODY has to!!! If "her" H won't get her help, someone else should step in!!! She has sooooooo many problems!!! (bulemic for over 10 years... almost died once from it, but keeps on doing it! Numerous affairs. Severe jealousy of anyone that has something she does not. etc.)

I know she wanted to destroy my M, and since she has not succeeded, she is trying harder now! I think she is mad that my H wants ME and not her! (he loves me... she was just sex!)

As far as the weather goes... mid 80's and LOTS of humidity!!!! (Luckily I have central air!!!)

Please cross your fingers that someone in my family will step up and confront her -- If they are soooooo concerned that she will "do something" to herself, then even MORE reason to get her help!!!

Thanks!

-mcnyh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

MC,
Okay, one more try here. You're a tough cookie but a likeable one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have you been listening to Sue and I?

YOU are the only one that can stand up to the family! Just DO IT! Don't wait for some other family member to defend your position, it may never happen.

How many times do I have to say it? YOU have done nothing wrong. You have forgiven your husband. You are an AWESOME wife!

Focus on yourself and your husband for now. It will do you good.

You will always be a part of your family. There is NOTHING in the world that can remove you from them. You could be convicted of a horrible crime and they will still love you in the end.

Your sister CANNOT remove you from YOUR family unless YOU let her!

Stand up for yourself girl!

Thanks Mike -- You are right... again... I will concentrate on me and my H!!! I will not remove myself from my family, and I will not let her win!

But (if I may ask...), how can I make her come clean??? I can't!!! Someone else needs to help me here, right?

What about the letter idea you mentioned earlier... can I write one to HER??? What can I put in it???

Please advise....again...

Thanks Dr. Mike!

-mcnyh

P.S. Where is my Dr. Sue???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

MC,

Well,first of all, I'm no Doctor, just a guy that's been through some experiences <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I will take that as a compliment, though.

As far as the letter goes, that was the forgiveness letter I suggested you write to your sister.

Yes, I am big time when it comes to forgiveness.

If you choose to forgive your sister completely, and I mean for everything, a letter is a good way of doing it. It's documented and unlike a phone conversation can be pondered over and re-read for days, weeks or months at a time.

Just be honest about your feelings. Express the hurt you feel. That's your right. I'm sure you have already done this with your husband. Tell your sister you love and care about her (cause you do, I know)
No talk about coming clean!
Treat her as you would treat your best friend.
This is for YOU, not her. Just be yourself but don't write it unless you mean it. I don't think you're there yet.

One last time,
You cannot make someone act the way you would wish. It is a tough lesson. You can beg, plead, try to buy them off, etc. You can only control yourself!

Well, today is starting out OK.. (it's still early), I just hope that it keeps going this good!

I really want to write a letter to her, I'm just afraid that "she " will somehow turn my words against me!!! I do forgiver her for the A, because she is a sick person! If she was mentally healthy she would not have done this to me! If she was mentally healthy, she wouldn't keep up this pathetic "claim"!!! I really do feel sorry for her, and wish she would get help! If she keeps living in her "dream world", she will continue with this behavior, and continue hurting people (especially her H & children!!!).

I guess I am one of those "fix it" kind of people... I want to be able to make her see what she is doing (even though I know I can not!)! I can only hope she will "wake up" and see the damage she is doing -- and seek help! Is she in the "fog" that I have read about, or is this something much more complicated? SHould my family admit to her (to her face) that they do not believe her, or continue avoiding an answer?? What is the best way for my family to handle this???

I still don't think it is fair to me that they don't call her on her lie! I know they don't want to hurt her feelings, but they are hurting MINE!!! They know she is lying... I think they are causing more problems by letting her continue on with this!!!

AND, if she is soooooooo "scared" of my H, why does she KEEP DRIVING BY MY HOUSE?????? SHe has NO reason to!!!

Oh well... nothing I can do right???? Just for the record... that SUCKS! But I will get past this -- even if she hold on to her lie! I can not let her control my future!

-Thanks!
mcnyh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hi MC
I have to be quick, I will come back and finish what I don't say.

As much as you would like to, you cannot make her see, or change. You have to accept things as is and hope that someday she will get the help she needs. Honestly, I don't think it will happen. It sounds like her H may be an enabler. As long as she has enablers, she does not have to face her issues.

You can write the letter, don't worry if she twists things, be very spefic and make a copy if you need one, then she can twist away, you still have the copy.

I'm jealous, 80's and central air. We are supposed to drop to 80's this week, then go up again by the weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Her H will see things as they are in time, if ever.

If you didn't not care about her, this would not bother you. But, at this time there is not much you can do. Beside, your M and your children are what is most important to you.

Her driving by, many reasons, obsessive personality?? who knows why they do what they do. Plain and simply nosey, could be? Guilt? shame? wants to see you but is afraid? There could be many reasons why? As long as she is not a threat I would not give it any thought. Your energies need to be directed at moving foward, not backwards.

Catch up to you later. Gotta catch part of a soccer game.

Sue -- Here's the thing.... I actually AM afraid of her AND her H!!! Her H IS an enabler... And I think he is dangerous!!! When he came to talk to me (weeks ago), he admitted to me and my brother that he needs therapy because he has "violent fantasies" about killing. Now I have her/them driving by my house -- I have two children, and am afraid that her H (or her for that matter) might snap and show up here! She is obviously NOT stable... neither is he!!! But, again... there is not a damn thing I can do!!!

I keep getting calls from people (mutual "friends") that are trying to reach them (they changed their number), and I have to pass messages on to my mom (I don't have the #)... I told her today that I am DONE doing that!!! They had better giver their number to the people that need it, because I will no longer pass along messages!!! (These are calls for jobs for her H -- who has been unemployed since she came out with her "claim"), and from what I understand, she won't let her H take any of these jobs!!! I guess she would rather lose her house and blame my H!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am done being worried about her "next move", because "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!". I am concentrating on ME!!!

Thanks for your help!

-mcnyh

Hi,
If you are worried about them causing harm to you or your family, you need to document these actions, and possibley notify the police. If he has violent fantasies, this could be a real issue.
I didn't realize that both of them are unstable. What they are doing is a form of harrassment. You could check with your police dept to see if there is anything they can do. Word of caution, if you think that might set them off more, then, you might be best documenting when you see them drive by, keep your girls in your sights at all times.

You be careful.

I like what you said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am done being worried about her "next move", because "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn!". I am concentrating on ME!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You keep thinking that and you will get through this.

Please be careful

MC,
I changed my mind, you should discuss it with the police. It is possible that they cannot do anything, but you can request that they document the conversation you and your BIL had.

I did that with a neighbor, ex neighbor I should say. Our boys played together. The father threatened to shoot my son who was 7 at the time. I went off the deep end. (about a week before that he threatened to blow up our house). I won't go into the details as to what was going on. I went to the police. Had we called about the threat of the house blowing up we could have pressed charges, but it was okay for him to threaten to shoot our son. I was told that the officer could take a statement and put it on record in case there is any other threats of violence. I guess if he makes too many, then something can be done. So, what I am saying is, even if the police cannot take action, you could have it documented, just in case.

Think about it, and do what you have to for your family's safety.

mc,
I follow your thread, this is my 2¢. Get a journal to write up any incident ... date and time of driving by ... date and time of threathening conversations ... any thing that you could use for R.O. This is the time your H will have to back you up and doing this together. You need to protect your family ... it will acomplish two thing. Keep them away and NC !!!. Make sure R.O. to specify OW/OWH to be away from any of your family member including H. Change your phone#. After R.O in place ... you have to be strong to call police if the order has been broken otherwise don't do it at all.

Just for benefit of the doubt ... try not to judge and go through her talked and claimed. I am very paranoid about betrayal. If her claims is garbage w/o fact then discard it but weed it out between fact. It takes two to tango.

-RH-

Hi,

I've been keeping up with your thread, and am sorry you find yourself in this position. An affair is horribly difficult to deal with, even more so when the OP is closely related and/or a friend.

While I agree that forgiveness is vitally important at some stage of recovery, I think you should be very careful of ANY contact with your sister until the situtation becomes more clear. Any letter you write, or even any conversation could definitely be used against you. I speak from personal experience here.

My husband had an affair with someone very close to me. After the first discovery, I too tried to forgive and maintain some kind of relationship with the woman and her family. It was a horrible mistake. The woman used my forgiveness and the contact I made with her to very deeply hurt my family and my children.

You have enough on your plate right now with trying to hold your marriage together and reconcile with your other family members, so I think you should put contact with your "evil" sister on the back burner for some time to come.

Besides, if she DID go so far as to contact the authorities with her story, a letter from you might actually strengthen her case. Wait until the situation is clearer before making that move.

Just a bit of advice from someone who has been there, and doesn't want to see anyone else make the same mistakes!

Best wishes,

Peppermint

I just had to post to your thread here. I haven't yet read ever single post-and you do have a lot of them-but what I have read has me really itching to write you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My H and my so called best friend had a 2 year A. Even though it wasn't my sister or a blood relative there are so many similarities that I can relate in too many ways.

First of all, I went beyond the 3 year mark since D-Day June 1, 2002 so I have been in this for a long time. I think many of us follow the same "patterns" when it comes to discovery and dealing with it. Be glad you appear to be one of the LUCKY ones. It sounds as though your H is remorseful, seeking help, standing firm in his marriage. So many do not have that at all.

You sister is bonkers. PERIOD. No if, ands or buts! The only thing you can do is to put the distacne between you and your S. I realize you live very close. Until your house is sold you must tell yourself you do not know that person. You need to act as if you never ever knew that person. She is a stranger.

Thinking of her and worrying about her lies and all will only destroy you. Take it from someone who knows!

My family and my ex friends family did everything together. We camped, we traveled (over 2,000 miles once on vacation), we watched each others kids, we dined together. The list is endless. When my H told me of his A I was devastated.

I just lost all faith in everyone. This was my buddy, my husband, my two best friends. and they both chose to do something so totally stupid.

My story is much too long to begin telling. But I will give you a few basics. I was in a numb state for 10 weeks. I didn't even realize this until I moved over to the MADDER THAN H*** stage. At this time I was a walking bomb-ready to physically take my hurt out on her. Then I went to the lonely stage.

I missed my friend beyond reason. We had-so I thought-so much in common. We liked so many of the same things. I told myself from the very beginning if I hated her I must also hate my H as it took two to tangle.

H stood by me from day one. As soon as he told me-and I ahd never ever suspected a thing-he was there for me. He let me be so brutal towards him when I felt the need to rant and rave. He answered my very numerous questions time and again.

Sadly there was one question that was never answered and never will be. That was WHY. I doubt I will ever be able to understand why they did it, why it had to happen to me. H and I have always gotten along very well. Sure we had some stress, doesn't every marriage. But we didn't fight. So the reason it happened has never become clear to me. Especially how they carried it out for two years-even though it was an on and off thing.

The OW lied too. She told me things such as my H didn't treat her too well. How she tried and tried to end it but he wouldn't. I too thought "you let him in when he came to your house". HELLO? Her answer was she wanted to be able to trust him-LOL..............DUH..... OK.

Anyhow, I would suggest you focus on your family-your own little family at this time. Yourself, your H and your kids. Most imporantly you need to find something that makes you happy. Something that occupies your mind so it can't wander to evil places. Something like scrapbooking is very rewarding or rubber stamping or walking. Exercise is great therapy.

It will be forever before you can get over the hurt and freshness of this twist in your life. But trust me-as I thought I would die-there will come a day you put it behind you a bit.

Remember, everyone makes mistakes. What is important is if they learn from them. While infidelity is a terible horrible betrayal to anyone it is also a mistake. We are all capable of making that msitake-some do and some don't.

I wish you great success and I hope your house sells real soon.

About forgiveness.............Mike says it helped him greatly and I think that is so wodnerful-I really do. Myself, I am into month 37 since D-Day and I still haven't forgiven. I still feel it won't ever happen. I do realize that it is only destroying me as the forgiveness is for myself but...........I can't forgive someone being as two faced as my supposed friend was. And to then tell lies and deny her aprt in it. All she admitted to was the A itself. After that it was "I'm so so sorry I hurt you, I never ment to hurt you, but he did this and he did that". I do know one thing-it took both of them. My H had the decency to tell me about it and readily admit to his mistakes, apologize for them and has spent the last 3 years telling me every day he loves me and showing me also!

I am so sorry you have to go through this-but you will make it and you will be a better person in the end.

Good luck always-

Heartache -- WOW! Thank you for your post!!! It seems like you REALLY know how I am feeling! I am trying to concentrate on me and my family, I really am, but I admit it is hard when I have a psycho sister that is hell bant on destroying me (and obviously my H)!!!

I have been told only I can let her hurt me... but that is not entirely true. The more crap she tries to convice my family of, the harder it makes for everyone to heal! My family will never forgive my H for the A as long as "she" keeps insisting she was "forced" -- for several months, and several times, in several locations... (LOL!!!).

My concern right now is that "she" is actually convincing herself she is telling the truth!!! No rational person could do that!!! She is very screwed up, and NEEDS help (help that her H won't even suggest!!!)

I think she has totally lost it, and I am afraid that she will snap and do something even more stupid than she already has!!!

Why can't these "OW" just get over the fact that they were just a distraction??? Especially in this case!!! My H and my "sister" never even got along very well -- but she offered sexual things he (at the time) could not resist! (dumb [censored]!)

Oh well, another day to deal with...

Thanks!

-mcnyh

Hi MC,

You are up early. I have to be quick, gotta get the kids up and to daycare. I have class today. I will try to check back in on my dinner break at work tonight.

I know this is hard for you. You can do you part on damage control, but your family will believe what they decide to believe. The truth does find a way to surface regardless of how many lies she tell.

This happened to me in my early college days. Not a boyfriend/girlfriend type betrayal, but a friendship betrayal about lies and the truth.

I attended classes at the same college I'm in now. I left to go to a school that specializes in the program I was interested in at that time. Back up a little in time. While I was in the college I had these friends, and during this time, I suffered my 1st "true" heartbreak. It was tough. When I left for the other school, I tried to keep in touch with my friends. They kept shunning me and I didn't know why. I quit the school I went to, (because I found that major was not for me) went back to the college I used to attend. My friends were still there. I tried many times to get back in with the group, and was always excluded right down to where they would get up and leave as soon as I sat down. So, I started to dismiss them. One day out of the blue I decided to call the girl who I thought was my best friend at that time, all of a sudden she wants to meet with me. So we meet for coffee. She bombards me with questions about this and that. It turns out, that one of the other girls in the group was telling everyone else lies about me and my behavior. (The lies were about: I was sleeping with every guy in town and partying up a storm. This girl sure gave me an interesting life). The truth did surface. Yes it bothered me that they took her word for it, and one lie was so stupid and they did bother to question it. The liar claimed my roommate from the other school would call the liar and complain about me to her and how I would bring different guys into our room. (My roommate was not from this area, and she would not know my friends to be calling them.) There was not much I could do about it, in my situation, I didn't know what was going on. Had I known, I would have confronted her. But the point is, the truth came out. The truth always has a way of surfacing.

Hi Sue -- I only have a minute... I just got home from the hospital (my H had knee surgery), and he is taking a nap (I've got the kids).

I will check back after they go to bed!

Thanks!
-mcnyh