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#415173 06/10/02 04:08 PM
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This seems to be the help I have been searching for. I am ready to commit to my marriage again.One thing that makes it very hard is that I was pregnant and young when I married and I never really had that "in love, you were made for me" feeling when I got married. He was always a great friend but the romantic feelings weren't that strong. All the advice I get says to recapture those early feelings of being "in love" and I just don't have it. I do love my husband in many ways and respect him and think he is a fine companion and great father. Is that enough? It is hard to give up the OM who is my "other half" and the "love of my life" when I never had those feelings for my husband.

#415174 06/10/02 04:20 PM
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Sparkle,
Many people say their real mate is not their sole mate in the beginning, personally I think they forget what it was like in the beginning of their relationship.

Regardless, it can be all that and more with your H. Chances are he never truly understood how to make you happy. Honestly think about it, it is hard for us to know how to make ourselves happy without some serious thought how can we expect someone else too. I had no clue what my W’s real needs were, once I learned it wasn’t hard to put into practice and now I enjoy it. It all started with being completely open and honest with each other. Today she is my best friend and greatest lover by far.

Did you order any of the recommended books yet? Get on that, any one of them will help. Someone mentioned “Torn Asunder” It is my favorite but it is a bit harsher on the WS.

If you feel the need to for contact come here and talk about it. You can laugh, cry, vent and heal with us.

I have to go, I'll check in Tomorrow

oz

[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: oswald ]


#415175 06/10/02 04:38 PM
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Hi, Sparkle. You've gotten great advice so far, along with some great book recommendations.

I, like many others here, am one of those who "thought" my H had ended all contact and that we were in recovery, only to find out many months later that he was still in contact with OW (who by this time had moved away) and that there was yet another OW. Because of the emotional trauma and timing of the 2nd revelation (tax season--I'm a CPA), I decided not to make any rash decisions right away and gave H a 3rd chance. So, yes, it is possible that your H will be willing to keep trying, but only with your full support and participation in the recovery efforts.

My H, being the softhearted man that he is, tried many times--unsuccessfully--to break up with both of the OWs in person. One thing always led to another... My opinion is that Harley's recommended "No Contact" letter is the best method to put an end to the relationship.

Also, I would like to point out that what you have had with OW has been based on lies and fantasy, not truth and real love (my opinion). Most affairs, when faced with reality--bills, kids, in-laws, day-to-day routine--rarely last more than a few months. I firmly believe that your H would be willing to at least try to meet those needs of yours if he only knew what they were. The initial shock of your continued contact with OM may paralyze him for awhile. But there is hope.

We are now at the 2 year/1 year 4 month mark in recovery (depending on which dday you start counting from). Things are much better. But they can only truly start getting better when you are 100% committed to your H and your marriage.

I pray that you have a relationship with Jesus Christ. I honestly don't know how I would have made it without Him. During those many, many times when I didn't think I could go any longer, He pulled me through. Although I still think about it--daily even--I believe that I have finally been fully healed from the incredible pain of the whole situation.

I didn't mean to ramble on so. I will be praying for you and your H. You can do this!


#415176 06/10/02 06:58 PM
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Hi Sparkle-
I'm a WS, and the same age as you are. This is a good place to get support, but as you have been warned you have to be a little tough to hear all of the advice and criticism you might receive.

No contact is really hard. I know. There are many WS here at MB who lived through it and made it. You do need support, have you tried counseling?

This is really important and one of the hardest things you have ever done. As others have said, the A is an addiction, and very hard to break, esp. if the OM is still testing you by trying to contact you.

You can do it. You may have trouble, and may have faltered, but you can do it.

It took me a long time to get through withdrawal. My EA lasted 1.5 years. I missed OM terribly for a while, and it slowly got better. If you still think about OM don’t beat yourself up. That is normal. But when you do, try to re-focus, think about your H, something positive you can do for him or your children.

I found that the process of withdrawal was a lot like grief. It takes time. Even if the relationship was wrong, wasn’t “real,” your feelings were real. And the grief/loss many WS feel for the OP is hard. You may feel these feelings are wrong, but if you found someone you cared for enough to get involved with, most of us can’t walk away and feel nothing. That would be absurd to expect. So it does take time to heal. That’s normal. So be patient. But be strong.


#415177 06/10/02 11:28 PM
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Hi Sparkle:

Since you stated that you do not have the courage to end contact with OM, I humbly suggest that you involve your H by telling him how hard the withdrawl from OM is on you and that you need his help when you are feeling week and tempted to contact OM. This reaching out to him can do wonders in your sincerity to end your A with OM and he may gladly help you do this. Think about it.


#415178 06/12/02 10:12 AM
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Sparkle,
Are you still out there?

We're rooting for you

oz


#415179 06/12/02 10:19 AM
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Yes, I am still here and I am so glad that you noticed I was gone because I really needed some support right now. I sent a no more contact e-mail to OM today and he called and I said no more and hung up. I got a great e-mail from my daughter right after it. I am feeling today like I can make it. Someone asked if I am a Christian and I am --- if I wasn't I probably would have left my H a year ago. I am going to try and refocus my thoughts and behavior towards making my husband happy and also, I think it is important that I we go over the emotional needs that I need met. Any more ideas or thoughts?

#415180 06/12/02 10:51 AM
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Sparkle, I strongly suspect (have proof)my W is having an affair, but denies it. So I am on the other side. It takes alot of courage to do what you are doing. But when you make that decision (rebuilding your marriage) you have to follow through. I know that if your husband loves you the way I love my wife and son, it is possible. I am only at the beginning myself and new to this board but I have been conforted and educated by the posts I've read here. As a BS I just want to start over with honesty and commitment. take care.

#415181 06/12/02 10:54 AM
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I went to a wedding on Sat. and the pastor was talking about that being the wedding day but then it was onto the marriage and that marriage is work. I think I just thought (like many I suspect) that I couldn't help falling in love with someone else. I know now that there are steps I could have taken to prevent it and that marriage is WORK.

#415182 06/12/02 01:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle22:
I know now that there are steps I could have taken to prevent it and that marriage is WORK.

Any really great achievement takes work.

I’m glad you’re still moving in the right direction. The no Contact letter is GREAT and you should be Proud that you hung up the phone and followed through, I’m proud of you.

I want to encourage you to keep reading, buy the book(s) and learn why it happened and how to heal your M. Your H will benefit immensely from reading also. If you work together the M you can create is one you never thought possible. Educating yourself is essential

You will be experiencing the withdraw symptoms, try to prepare for that. Is there an activity you like? Run, jog, exercise, shop anything that you can promise yourself you will do when the urge to contact OM becomes to strong? Find something to take you mind off that phone call, e-mail or visit. Remember you have started, any contact puts you back to the beginning and you get hurt all over again.

Sparkle, take pride in yourself each minute, day, week and yes eventually month you go with no contact. Having pride will help you continue.

I would also suggest talking to someone, a pastor, counselor, anyone who can help you hold yourself accountable. The Harleys do phone counseling and in my view it’s worth the $90.00 even if you only do it a few times. My W and I used them in the beginning before finding someone local. This site is great but a real voice is so reassuring, especially the voice of someone who knows how to help and knows the deal.

You can do this Sparkle, Hang in there,

oz

[ June 12, 2002: Message edited by: oswald ]


#415183 06/12/02 01:44 PM
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Thanks for the encouragement. I have felt so alone and knew I was going to need help so this site has been good. I think finding someone locally to talk to would be good for me but I haven't because I wasn't ready to give up the OM and get serious about my marriage. I feel sad today but I also feel like a weight has been lifted. I don't want to go through the pain again.

#415184 06/12/02 01:57 PM
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Sparkle,

I don't know how long you have been married, but from the data at the end of your post it appears some time approaching 20 years, perhaps longer.

You say you were never in love with your H. But I know one thing for sure he is and has been in love with you or the knowledge of the affair would have driven him away. If you read here for awhile you will begin to see the pain the BS goes through and is in. You cannot really fathom it but reading here will give you a good idea.

What is my point? My point is to ask you a question. If you met a man, that worked hard and did the right things. If you met a man that took care of his family. If you met a man, that could love someone through a lot of pain. If you met a man, that felt YOU were worth a lot of pain. If you met a man that is/was a good father.

Do you think you might of met a man you could fall in love with? I suspect that you could.

My suggestion to you is to step back and have a real hard honest look at your H. He is a far better man than you seem to realize. He would probably meet your needs if you had really told him what they were, not just hinted at them.

Sparkle at your age ( you are too young for me ), it is time you realized that falling in love can be fun, it can be stress free, and it can reward you for the rest of your life, IF you fall in love with the right man. You can fall in love with your H and if you do, it won't be like your relationship with OM. It will be something everyone will celebrate and truely enjoy watching, that means your children, your friends, your family.

Dear lady, it is time you got to work. If you read Harley's books and the others recommended you will come to one conclusion: you can fall in love with your H. What has prevented it as much as anything has been you and how you view him. You never have really given him credit because you felt you HAD to marry him, but neither of you HAD to get married and you don't HAVE to be married now. It is a choice both of you make.

So start meeting your H's needs, talk to your H about your A, and your difficulties.

But understand this, it is possible and if you do it, it will be better than anything you have experienced to date. You just need to change your perspective. See you H for who he really is, not who you have made him out to be during your affair and even your marriage. He is simply a human being, and very likely he is like the rest of us he is trying to do his best with limited information. Help him.

God Bless,

JL


#415185 06/12/02 02:05 PM
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JL thanks for your message. It has given me so much to think about and I am learning so much from people on this site. I know I have expected so much from my husband and as you said, he is only human. It is hard not to compare him to the OM but I am trying. It is so hard because I know the world of the A isn't reality but that is what makes it so tempting --- it is an escape to another world where reality doesn't exist.

#415186 06/12/02 04:29 PM
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Sparkle,

I realize that you are still in the fog, and still engaged in the affair, but I am going to take a gamble and really talk seriously with you. I understand that most of what I am going to say really won't mean a thing right now, but I hope that someday it does.

You say you try really hard to not compare your H to your OM. It makes sense, but here is a little test for you. Right now you think the OM is far superior to your H, he is your "soulmate", the ONE. Virtually, every person whether they are the WS or the BS have said or heard that comment.

But, realize something, OM's W was very likely the ONE when they married. They have children together, they apparently have been married for awhile as you have. So you are not THE ONE to him, you are simply an exciting choice for RIGHT NOW. You see you already know that vows don't mean much to him. His family doesn't really mean much to him ( I don't care what he says look at his actions). You know he cannot be trusted.

BUT, you don't see that now. Sparkle, I am sure your H has his failings, as I said before he is a human, but one of his failings is NOT that he views his marriage vows as negotiable to the one that meets his needs best, your OM does. You see you are not meeting your H's needs, and I KNOW that you haven't since the affair started. Your OM is not meeting his W's needs either.

So when you start to consider comparing your H to your OM, remember something. Your H can learn, your H wants you, but most of all your H has stood by you through all that you have done. I am sure he has wavered as to whether he should divorce you. But, he has stood.

Sparkle you are still young, but you will learn that people that are realiable and steadfast are the ones you want around you. Sometimes they aren't as exciting, but you know why they often aren't?? They are afraid of losing or hurting their spouse. They try to protect and that is a boring job. Yet, within them often is far more, they just take their responsibilities seriously.
That is why often honesty really really helps a relationship. Because you just might learn that your H has always wanted more from you with regard to sharing, sex, fun, conversation but as our kids often tell us we are boring. Why? because raising kids, working, paying the mortgage is boring and must be done first. It often takes extraordinary events to make us open up; illness, losing a loved one, nearly losing a child or family member or actually losing one, and YES even an affair.

It is much easier to talk and confide in a friend because you don't worry about hurting them. This does lead as it might have in your case to deeper feelings. Why couldn't you talk with your H about your needs, your wants, your fears, what was bring your down? You didn't want to hurt him you didn't want to look bad to him. You cared for him deeply.

The great irony is if you were to leave your H, marry the OM not only will two families by destroyed, but you then will be in the same situation with OM that you are with H. You love him and you don't want to hurt him so you don't confide in him. That is why it is called the fog.
Not because the feelings aren't real. It is because the interaction is not realistic, and often changes rapidly if the marriage dies before the affair does.

The dynamics of this stuff are complex, but the one thing you KNOW that perhaps you weren't sure of is that your H loved you and probably still loves you. He has been tested like you never have and with luck never will be. You might have thought he married you because he had to, and maybe he felt that way, but now he has been given an option.

Even by Biblical standards he is free to divorce you and leave, but he hasn't.

So when you think about comparing the OM to your H, ask yourself would the OM have gone through what your H has for you. No, he cannot even deal with his own W.

Talk with your H, give him a chance, and as the pain subsides you just might find you were married to the love of your life all along. You really might Sparkle.

God Bless,

JL


#415187 06/12/02 04:42 PM
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Thanks for helping me open my eyes to my husband. It is giving me so much to think about. I did tell my H I wanted a divorce last summer because of OM but I decided to think about it before doing anything quickly. I thought my H was so weak because he didn't get angry or kick me out but I am beginning to understand that it took more strength to stay with me and try to save our marriage. OM tried to contact me again this afternoon with an e-mail and I told him to end contact so I am finding strength. I think he has gotten the message.I believe the people that have written me are helping me on this journey so thanks to all of you that are supporting me.
I printed off the Emotional Needs questions and plan on working on them with my husband soon.
I noticed that there isn't really anything on that list dealing with an emotion that is important to me, independence. My husband's life seems to revolve around me and I think it would make life much more interesting if he had his own interests and friends --- he is self employed, doesn't have a hobby like golf, or bowling or any male friends he does things with...I feel suffocated because I think he wants me to be everything to him. I have told him this before but I don't think he understands how important it is to me who is "independent" of me in some ways.
Am I crazy?

#415188 06/12/02 10:52 PM
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Sparkle,

You think your H is weak because he didn't get angry and didn't throw you out? Please read the GQII section, please read the recovery section and if you really want to read some stories that will rip your heart out read the Pregnancy section of this site.

Sparkle, it is much easier to run, than to stand. It is much easier to be angry, than to try and build. I know you don't realize it yet, but you have no idea the pain he has been in, none what so ever.

When you separate from the OM, you will go through withdrawal. AT first you will want to call him all of the time, you will be in pain, you mind will be consumed with thoughts of the OM, you will look at your H and wonder what the heck is he doing here, and why did I make this choice. All of this is a drop in the buck to learning that the woman you loved for 23 years, doesn't love you and has lied and cheated on your for a year or more.

However, if you do go through withdrawal, you will begin to see your H in a new light, and the guilt will come (that is if you have a conscience, some don't). You will hurt more, and your H will struggle to deal with your withdrawal from him again, because of your guilt. Maybe in about 6-8 months you might feel like even meeting a few of his needs. So after more than a year of the A, and 6-8 months of withdrawal and your guilt, he might get a glimpse of the woman he married.

Does this picture look attractive to you? You will wonder why he has endured, you will wonder what he sees in you? You will wonder why he seems sooooo clingy, you already are?

It is simple: he loves you, and he is sooo hurt he doesn't trust that you do really want to be with him. If you think you feel soffocated now, wait until later. But it will pass, you need to begin to see where he has been and the deep deep depths of his despair.

It will come Sparkle, but with all of this comes healing, and openness, and a rebuilding. Have patience with him as you withdraw and I suspect he will with you.

Sparkle, I have been reading here for over 3 years and I have been posting here almost 3 years. The patterns are remarkably the same. Harley obviously noticed this in his practice, hence the success of his method and the books he writes.

If you want it to work, and your H survives his pain, you two can build a better marriage, but it takes knowledge (most don't have this when they marry), it takes patience, it takes time, and it takes forgiveness. You see he will need to forgive you, but actually as important you will need to forgive him. Sounds strange doesn't it??

But, you see you will be angry as you withdraw. Angry that HE didn't do more, that HE allowed you to do this, angry that he isn't more perfect, angry that he isn't your OM. But, you see a lot of this will be blame shifting, but in addition he wasn't the perfect H or you very likely wouldn't have had the affair. Forgive him for that.

One last thing and I will get off of my soap box. If you read this site for long you are going to notice two things. For the most part it is a place of hope, but it is populated by people of great strength. I think you will find as you end your affair that you have this strength.

Hang in there and talk to your H about this. Read Surviving an Affair, and then send a no contact letter after your H approves it.

God Bless,

JL


#415189 06/13/02 10:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle22:
I understand the no contact rule. I have tried it about 5 times. How can I make it stick? It is hard when he meets so many of my emotional needs.

I am going to write this quickly, so please forgive the appearance of my possibly being blunt. I write it with the love of Jesus behind what I write.

I don't know if you are a Christian, but the key to being faithful to your H is to let God fill those needs through your H. God is the supplier of all that is GOOD in your life as well as everyone else.

I am the BS. I go to God to meet the needs that my W still refuses to meet. God is the only one who will be with you no matter what. He HAS to be the one you go to when things are not well. Let Jesus live His life through you and your fears will be removed.


#415190 06/14/02 12:39 AM
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It is hard not to compare him to the OM but I am trying. It is so hard because I know the world of the A isn't reality but that is what makes it so tempting --- it is an escape to another world where reality doesn't exist.

Sparkle, I can relate so much to what you are talking about here - I am a former WS now in recovery and believe me the fantasy does not pan out with reality. Stay and work things out with your husband. There are a lot less complications with that scenario believe me.

If you want me to go into details, I will but just felt moved to respond.

My prayers are with you two.


#415191 06/13/02 01:46 PM
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sparkle - I'm so proud of you. This is so difficult, but you are hanging in!

You should consider MC with your H, in addition to reading, reading, reading. It seems like you have a big issue with your H and you and he haven't found a way to resolve it. You can - but take it all in steps.

Right now, deal with the consequences of your A and how to help your H and how to help yourself. Continue to be strong about No Contact with OM. Turn to your H anytime you feel the need to speak with OM. You will go through withdrawal. Believe me, my H was totally in love with OW but now he's totally in love with me again - but it took TIME.
(All the "oldtimers" will be nodding their heads at this one.)

Also, take time just to "be" with your H. Plan a date - dinner and a movie or play, a long walk, something where you can just "hang" for a bit. I'm not saying stop talking about the issues at hand, but take some time out from all of that. It's fun to rediscover your mate and to rediscover the reasons you were attracted to him in the first place.

Take Care.


#415192 06/13/02 02:17 PM
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Sparkle,
I’m glad JL joined this discussion with you, he has much insight to offer and was blessed with the ability to express things in the written word. I can’t add much to what he has offered but I can surely support what he has told you about your H strength. Funny thing about that if your H is like me he also feels week to have stayed. In the beginning I felt like an idiot for staying. It didn’t take long to realize that was not the case.

Walking away would have been so much easier for me. I would have been justified in walking, I would have had the golden opportunity to dump all the blame on my W and never had to face my role in creating an environment that allowed this terrible thing to happen. But I did not walk and I’m proud of that. I admitted my part in it, I committed to change and I faced some of the most heart wrenching emotions I’ve ever encountered. Does that make me a hero, no I’m no different then the others around here. But it does make me a good H, it makes me a person who stood behind the vows I offered, through good times and bad, in sickness and in health. It makes me a person today that my W never knew existed. It gave me the opportunity to learn and grow and build a M that will survive all.

At one time my W also felt it was weak for me to stay. Today she tells a different story, today she can’t believe someone loved and loves her so much that they would endure this. In her own words she is sorry it ever happened but admits that without this she would have never really known how much I truly love her. We both thank god for giving me the strength to stay. If you continue to learn and grow together someday you will feel this also, when you do your relationship becomes so different that you’ll not even recognize the people you were and you won’t recognize what attracted you the OM.

As for independence or, lack there of in your H. For now understand you’ll have to go easy on that. Possibly you could make that a goal for later in recovery and beyond. In my experience the A itself strongly influence views on independence. On your side your desire for it may unconsciously stem from the fact that more independence on his part would have made carrying on the A easier for you. Less to hide, less to cover up if he was pre occupied. Having to act in covert type ways to carry on your A also helped to enhance your feelings of being smothered.

From his side JL is right, right now he is broken, he needs reassurance. First hand I can tell you it is the most unsettling thing to learn your mate freely gave themselve to another. I have never been able to put into words the range of emotions from hurt, anger, hopelessness, shame and disbelief a BS goes through, I don’t think words could accurately describe it. On the opposite spectrum it’s like holding your child for the first time, words don’t do it justice. It is something you will come to understand but never fully grasp. Likewise a BS can understand, but never fully grasp the pain held by the WS.

Your H will be clingy, he will need to hear you love him or at least are working too, he will need to hear you apologize not once, but millions of times. Understand his world crashed around him, things that were once familiar and reassuring are gone, he is lost and he needs to hold on to his best friend, even though you’re the one that caused the crash, that best friend is YOU. Each time there is continued contact you chip away at that friendship. Remember that when withdraw gets tough, if you can’t do for yourself do it for someone who needs you to be strong, do it for someone who looks to you as the best friend the world has to offer, do it for your H.

Sparkle, a lot has been said here about the pain your H is in, somewhere inside I know that is hurting you and making you feel guilty and you will someday face your own pain caused by this all. No sugar coating it, you are guilty, and ultimately you alone made the decision to stray. But remember this even the worlds best people make mistakes. You’re not God you make mistakes. Always remember that while yes you made the decision alone you did not build the environment to enable it alone. It was a mistake made by both you and your H because you were not educated on how to avoid it. Just saying something shouldn’t happen does nothing to stop it, education does. From all this I have learned people mistakes do not define them, how they correct the mistake does. From here, your off to a great start.

P.S. I’m sorry for rambling so much.

oz

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: oswald ]


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Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
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