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#415213 06/17/02 10:09 AM
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Sparkle,
My H knows about the OM and knows that I fell in love with him. But no, I don't tell him how hard it is for me and how much I still think about the OM, and how often I think about wanting to contact the OM. I don't see any value to rebuilding our marriage. <p>I have one friend that I have shared this with who has helped me stay on track and focused on my H and my marriage. She has been wonderful. Sometimes, I find that I need to verbalize how hard it to walk away from the OM to a smypathetic listener and just by being able to verbalize (and wallow) helps me get over the desire to contact the OM.<p>So feel free to write me..especially if you have the urge to write or call the OM...feel free to verbalize your thoughts to me...you must not write the OM...you have to move on. <p>One of my greatest struggles was between heart and mind. I knew intellectually that my marriage and family was where I wanted to be...but my heart kept on tempting me...it's such a painful struggle. <p>Be strong. Do you enjoy your husbands company? Does he enjoy your company? Does he make you laugh? If you feel like it, tell me more about your H and some of his strengths.<p>Ashirley1@hotmail.com

#415214 06/17/02 10:15 AM
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I have thought and said so many times that it is a battle between the heart and mind. I just want so much to have my heart want my H instead of the OM. Has that happened to you yet Ashirley? I am just afraid that it will never happen and I don't want to go through my life having my heart want someone else. My mind knows that my husband is good and fortunately we do enjoy the same things and have fun and laugh together. We have been trying to do more together and that helps. One of the things that is hard for me is that my OM is a very prominent person and leads an exciting life that is very different from the quiet life my husband and I lead. I can't lie that his lifestyle and "fame" are enticing to me. I seem to spend a lot of time comparing my H to OM and I don't think that is good.

#415215 06/17/02 10:33 AM
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I have a job where I work MWF and since OM wouldn't contact me at home after I quit working with him (he was my boss and we traveled together) when I started this new job all of our contact has been while I'm at work. Well, now I've gotten so that the hardest part of the day is not e-mailing him while I'm at work. That's why this site is filling in that void for me. When I am home on T-TH I feel "safe" in my home environment and try to do things with my husband. I am trying not to equate my work days with OM but it is hard. I am in the same line of work that I was when I worked with him so often I've used the excuse that I just need to ask him some professional advice and then it leads to more contact etc.
AShirley I think it is great you have kept up no contact while your husband is out of town. I KNOW how hard that must be.

#415216 06/17/02 10:55 AM
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Sparkle,
I’ll be honest with you…I still struggle between heart and mind and I too, wonder if I’ll ever get to the point where heart and mind are in sync (with my H.) I hope so. I hope that it just takes time. Remember, you have to compare the whole package you H and your family with his whole package…not just the two men. Because life involves so much more that just our spouses. It’s much more complicated. <p>You are in a tougher position than I am in, because your OM wants to divorce his wife and marry you. That would be really, really hard for me. If my OM came on really strong, I’d have a hard time being strong. But I told myself that I would never be with him (have a physical affair) unless I left my H first and I just don't think I could ever do that to him or my children. I love my husband..but I admit, there is something lacking that I can't quite get my finger on, but I'm working at it. I also tried to remind myself that the whole thing was about me and my Marriage; not about me and the OM. I had/have to find out what I was getting from the OM that I wasn’t getting from my H and try to get that (or a good substitute) from my H.<p>My OM and I worked at the same college and our offices were located in the same building. I had to change jobs to have any hope of quitting contact. After I left my job, we were in touch by email and by phone, but we wouldn’t see each other. So, it has been really hard breaking the email contact… It took a year and a number of false stops, before we were able to stick to our no contact…it’s been 2 months. I still wish I’d see his email in my inbox, but I know I won’t and I know it’s for the best…it just SUCKS and I wish I’d stop thinking about him.<p>Thanks for your encouragement. I really was tempted to write him this weekend.<p>AS

#415217 06/17/02 11:08 AM
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Sometimes I think how much easier this no contact thing would be if e-mail hadn't been invented. It is so easy to just click that send button and feel like it is so harmless. I've had myself talked into thinking that e-mail and phone conversations were o.k. because I wasn't really "seeing" the OM. But they usually led to us getting together (follows the addiction pattern). I am trying to "fall in love" with my husband but I hate that I have to try when with the OM it comes so easily. I got married young and was pregnant and even at the time thought of my H as more of a good friend and good person than the "love of my life". He's a wonderful father, the kindest person, on and on...almost too perfect. Everyone thinks we have the perfect family. I was so tempted again this weekend to just leave but when I think of the overall pkg. and the hurt to my children, H, and extended family I just don't want to be the cause of all that pain so if I'm going to stay I'm determined to work on the Marriage. But the fantasy world of the OM (which I trying to convince myself the OM and I live in) is so hard to resist. He and I have shared everything. O.K. but back to reality...my husband I and have a good physical relationship so that is good, and my husband has all the qualities I admire, I just want to feel that "I can't live without you" feeling. Is that stupid? I have always thought (this is morbid) if anything happened to my husband that I would be sad but I would go on...not like the feeling I would have now trying to give up the OM, I am devastated. Ashirley do you understand?

#415218 06/17/02 11:43 AM
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I am going nuts not e-mailing OM today. It is so hard on Monday especially since I like to tell him about my weekend etc. and since I saw him Friday.

#415219 06/17/02 11:48 AM
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Ashirley-
You never mentioned if your OM is married and has a family. I assume he must be married.
I think my A might have gotten started partly because I have 4 children, the oldest 3 girls, and the last girl was in her senior year of high school and I was beginning to feel that "empty nest". My son is in high school still and I worry about how it is going to be even worse once he leaves home. I want to have a strong marriage before he leaves home because I know that time could be tough. Does empty-nest syndrome relate at all to women having affairs?

#415220 06/18/02 12:08 AM
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Sparkle,
I know what you mean about how easy email is. I’ve written so many to my OM that I shouldn’t have…like you said, it’s just too easy. <p>Sparkle, as much as you won’t believe this, the chances that you would end up marrying the OM are actually pretty slim. You’ll be trading one set of problems and/or unmet needs for another set. Let’s face it, no one is perfect, know matter how perfect they seem. At least with you H you know everything…nothing’s in the closet. He loves you the way you are despite your short comes…You really don’t know everything about the OM, though you might think you do. He might have some skeletons that aren’t that pretty…that could really hurt. Has he ever had an affair during his marriage (other than with you?) One thing I know is that my H would never do what I did. He’s faithful and committed. That is really, really important to my security and self esteem. I’m a bit insecure, I don’t think that I could be as patient and understanding, and unpossessed as my H has been. Despite the fact that I couldn’t be trusted, he has always treated me with respect and trust. <p>I know that the OM has had at least one other affair, plus an EA with me…what would keep him from having another one. Generally speaking, I think that women are bad news. My OM works at a woman’s college. No matter how determined he might be to not be involved with another woman, what would keep some other woman from making the moves…he’s really good looking, incredibly smart, kind, funny, warm, etc…<p>So when you think about not being able to live without the OM, think about sitting in a little apartment having broken your husbands heart. Wanting to see you H, wanting him to make you laugh, wanting to make love with you….wanting to be with him. <p>And I do think about what if something did happen to my H…and do feel like I could go on…I do understand.
AS

#415221 06/18/02 12:25 AM
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Sparkle,
My OM was in a committed relationship. He had been married for 30 years; had an affair that ended, he left his wife, she went back to her H. Shortly after he left his wife, he got involved with a woman who was separtated (had been married 2 previous times) she was involved in a nasty separation and they couldn't be seen together. One of the problems is that he didn't tell me about his girl friend for 8 mths..long after I had fallen in love with him. Even then, he never talked about her, what the did, etc.so I didn't think it was serious, I just thought he didn't want to ruin my marriage. I didn't believe that he was really in love with his girl friend...he gave me mixed signals, that I misintrepreted. I still want to believe that he was in love with me...why would he have continued being in touch for so long when he knew we shouldn't be...etc.<p>But, I do accept that whatever the case. It's for the best that we don't see each other. It breaks my heart, bc he had wanted a friend and I fell in love with him. If I had known that he really wasnt' available, I don't think I would have let myself fall totally in love with him...and if I hadn't fallen in love with him, we'd still be friends...I still have a hard time dealing with that. In my mind I only wanted a friend, but in my heart I had fallen in love.<p>It's so hard.

#415222 06/18/02 12:27 AM
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One more thing, I do think this has a lot to do with the empty nest and all of a sudden not being needed as much as we were. I needed attention and wasn't getting enough, and this OM came into my life and was so attentive, responsive, receptive, etc....I needed it so badly and I ate it up. <p>My H is working really hard to give me the attention that I need...but I seem to need so much these days. I do think that empty nest and mid-life crisis are definately major factors.

#415223 06/18/02 12:48 AM
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Sparkle<p>Ashirley, is giving you good advice. I copied a statement you made that I wanted to talk about and Ashirley has already commented on it. I don't think I can add anything but I will give it a try.<p>You said <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> He and I have shared everything. O.K. but back to reality...my husband I and have a good physical relationship so that is good, and my husband has all the qualities I admire, I just want to feel that "I can't live without you" feeling. Is that stupid?<hr></blockquote><p>Actually, you do have that feeling for your H, but you don't seem to realize it. Otherwise you would have divorced, taken the children, married the OM and lived happily everafter. The problem you are having in my opinion is that love can manifest itself in many ways. <p>The "I can't live without you." actually isn't one of them. That is the HS crush sentiment that goes on until someone better comes along. The kind that sustains one deep in their soul is the one where YOU and YOUR spouse KNOW they can live without one another, that there are choices out there, BUT you two have chosen to love and stay by one another.<p>You made a comment about your OM being a better man in the sense that he is a public figure, probably makes more money, and on the surface seems soooo polished. Yet, his W isn't enough for him is she? I have mentioned this to you before, but I want to take it further.<p>I don't care who you are and what you do, there is someone better than you at just about anything. You can most definitely "trade up". There are better men that your H; better looking, wealthier, better connected, belong to the "right" club, and most assuredly smarter. The only thing these men cannot claim is that they are the father of your children.<p>So the issue is: "Why not trade up?" In fact why shouldn't your OM trade up as well. Clearly you are superior to his W. So why hasn't he divorced and taken you or someother better, better looking woman? The answer is he probably already has and that is why he doesn't need to divorce.<p>In your case this is your first attempt at trading up. But, I will warn you, if you trade that implies that you are dealing with a man that also trades. So that leaves the issue of will you always be the best: the best looking, the best hostess, the best connected, the most useful, the best in bed? You had better be or he will trade up again.<p>Sparkle, it seems to me you are reaching an age when you should begin to appreciate you H, not dump him. I know when I was your age it began to really happen to me. You see love is not having the best, it is making the best of what you have. And what you have is a man that doesn't want to trade you for a newer, better model. Why? He truely loves you. He sees the faults, he feels the neglect, he hears the insults (implied or spoken). He knows more about you than you think, but he isn't trading up. That Sparkle is what love is about, it is a verb. It is an action.<p>You can choose to love your H or you can chose to focus on your OM. I know the OM is in your mind and part of that is actually chemical. It takes months of no contact for it to go away. If you choose to love your H, to do things with him, you will find that you actually start to really feel in love with him.<p>You said you are dreading the empty nest syndrom (sp). Yet, most I know that go through that period find that they come to enjoy it. They and their spouses have more time to talk, to eat when and what they want, to enjoy a movie, music, vacations, etc. Life comes full circle to when they were young. <p>Now I realize you never had time when you were young, so you don't know what I am talking about. You became pregnant and started right in on being a mother. I am from the opposite spectrum. <p>First, I am a male. Second, I didn't get married until I was 31, and third my youngest will graduate from HS when I am 60 (only a few years from now). I laughing tell my W that she will never have the empty nest syndrom because I will retire when the kids leave. She looks at me like: "Yeah, not on your life." [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>But, I will tell you that as you get older, life is better if you have your health. Sparkle, I know many famous, powerful people, and frankly while it looks great from the outside you have only seen a glimpse of the cost that fame and power have. In your affair, you have only seen the best, you haven't seen the worst. His W has.<p>I will leave you with one last thing to think about: There is no free lunch. None. But you can trade up, but once you put yourself in the trading business, you can get traded as well. So think carefully. <p>I realize you want to stay with your H, but I also realize you have yet to see him for who and what he is. When you do, I think you estimation of him will go up considerably. He may not have the trappings of power and wealth, but he appears to have the strength of a guy who can hang in there when it is tough. <p>Just also remember that while you married young and YOU felt that you weren't in love with him, he was stuck with a pregnant woman who didn't love him as she should. He was then responsible very early in his life for the children as well. He has been under pressure for most of his life as well and he has hung in there despite having a W who didn't feel in love with him. How sad for him, yet he is there.<p>This leads to my last point, he has probably hung on through all of this because while you see gloom, doom, misery, and despair with your children aging, he sees a chance to live again, to love again, and to enjoy life with his W.<p>You would do well to adopt this view as well.<p>Hang in there, the addiction will fade, and I foresee for you the possibility of a far better marriage than you have ever had. You have the makings of it with your H loving you as he apparently does. You will get to enjoy your 50,60, and 70's being a grandparent, and doing things you enjoy. I spent my 50's going to school events and hope that the 60's and 70's are what I want. So you will get your time on one end or the other. Frankly, I think you will enjoy it more on the older end, than you would have on the younger end.<p>It is really all a matter of attitude, and then a lot of hard work. You have yours cut out for you, but I suspect the goal may be better than you think right now.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

#415224 06/17/02 01:26 PM
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JL-
Thanks for the long response. I just want to get through this withdrawal from OM and get on with the life you describe. I thought I would look forward to our time alone and then the A happened and now I'm dreading that empty nest. I am beginning to see, as my husband and I try to do more alone together, that this could be a fun time in our lives but then at other times I dread it and am scared. As you said, we've never had that alone time in our marriage, so it is so new for us.

#415225 06/17/02 01:30 PM
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JL-
You mentioned that feeling as being chemical --can you describe what it actually is because that might help me realize it isn't just my feeling

#415226 06/17/02 01:40 PM
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Ashirley-I think the hardest thing is to lose the friendship of the OM. He and I started out as working together, became great friends and then one day I kissed him and we were in love and couldn't stand to be apart etc. I have never been one to need a lot of friends so I tend to isolate myself and I read a lot. The OM reads a lot also and so we shared thoughts and ideas all the time. A very strong EA for both of us. He is a writer and he hired me with little experience to work for him and nurtured that talent in me so he made me feel smart and worthwhile. It is a strong bond to break. I just miss my friend so much but I tried many times to "just be friends" and it doesn't work for us.

#415227 06/17/02 01:47 PM
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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The "I can't live without you." actually isn't one of them. That is the HS crush sentiment that goes on until someone better comes along. The kind that sustains one deep in their soul is the one where YOU and YOUR spouse KNOW they can live without one another, that there are choices out there, BUT you two have chosen to love and stay by one another. <hr></blockquote><p>This is great. You have a lot of wisdome to share. thanks.

#415228 06/17/02 02:18 PM
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Sparkle,
In my opinion, when we feel love feelings, it triggers a chemical in our brain that stimulates the part of our brain that gives the sensation of euphoria. We get addicted to that euphoric feeling and want more and more of it. So we continue to do things to stimulate that part of the brain. <p>The very hardest thing for me is to accept that I have lost a really special friend. We really clicked and enjoyed each other’s company. We’ve got sons that are close in age (17) and had lot’s to share in that arena. We worked of a couple of projects together and he took an interest in my post graduate work. (I was working on a masters degree and he read and commented on my thesis…forever endearing me to him…) Neither one of us had a lot of friends, so we were really important to each other….we filled a void we both had. It just kills me that I couldn’t keep it as a friendship…why did I have to fall in love? I actually try not to think about that bc what’s done is done and I have to accept that and move on. As much as I’d like to, we can’t be friends…My feelings are just too strong. I feel like I let him down, he needed a friend not a lover. But, I can’t help it. I love him and like him. …<p>This doesn’t sound like I’m moving on, but I am…But I still have fond feelings of the OM and I probably always will. But I love, respect, and enjoy my H and I am determined to get over the OM…it’s just taking longer than I’d like it to take.

#415229 06/17/02 02:23 PM
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Yes, it is so hard to lose that friendship. I am mad at myself a lot for the same reason...taking the relationship beyond friendship when I should have guarded my heart and not let myself fall in love with him. The bad part for me is that I found a career I loved when this man hired me and he supported and nurtured me into becoming creative in my new career. Now I feel like I'm flung out into the world without my friend for support and had to give up the job I loved because we couldn't remain "just friends." If only I would have known how important it is to guard your heart I would have tried to prevent it but I did the opposite and nurtured it.

#415230 06/17/02 04:40 PM
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Sparkle,<p>Ashirley, answered your question. It really is a brain chemical thing. Sort of like drugs or caffiene. When you do something enjoyable, your brains produce chemicals that make you feel good. The more these are produced the more you want to do these things.<p>You have heard of the runners high? It is a similar thing, people become addicted to exercise. People become addicted to other people for many reasons, but supporting that is the physical response. Some call it a habit, but while many don't like to admit it, we can be trained just as other animals can.<p>Also there is a reason that Harley strongly suggests the no contact rule. It is because this addiction can and often does remain although unacted upon. The love you felt for OM will diminish, the power will fade, but it can be rekindled. So not contact. But, no contact also gets you out of the "habit" of OM meeting your need for the feel good high. It takes months and like any habit must be watched. But, if you substitute doing things with your H for what you did with OM, this seems to pass.<p>So it is a chemical response to the pleasant stimulation your OM gave you. You were being trained to like/love him. You must now break the training to rebuild your marriage. <p>Sparkle, I also think that if you talk with H about what you miss, the friendship, perhaps the intellectual stimulation of your career the two of you can use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) to develop a plan that will meet your needs and keep the marriage together as well. That puts him in the role, that you let OM get into. Your H can and will help you if you let him,but he needs to be fully informed of where you are and where you want to go.<p>You know Sparkle one of the greatest things in life is helping people. What most people don't realize is that the real gift is not necessarily in the helping, but in letting someone help you. Have you ever had to give advice to your children? Yes, sure you have. How did it make you feel when they rejected it? How did you feel when they never even asked? How do you feel when they followed it? Now which was the bigger gift?<p>Consider your H, what would be the biggest gift? I think you letting him help you would be. Yes, his helping you would be a gift as was your OM's gift, but you gave the OM a bigger one and it was one your H should have received. You let OM help you. Time for you to give your H something, your willingness to let him help you.<p>I know this sounds odd, but receiving is often more difficult than giving, but the bigger gift.<p>Something else to think about.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

#415231 06/17/02 04:41 PM
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Sparkle,
I know what you mean. I get a bit cross when I think about my OM. Because I didn't know the girl friend existed for 8 months. If early on, IF he had told me x and I did this, or that; etc., I would have acted differently and would have protected my heart. Instead, I felt sorry for him bc he was recently divorced after 30 years, so I befriended him...little did I know that he was involved in a committed relationship. Nearly a year after we started seeing each other (we ate lunch together and emailed etc.) I told him that I had fallen in love with him, but since I was married and wanted to stay that way, I hoped we could be friends. Even after I changed jobs and we continued to be in touch, he never talked about his girlfriend. When I asked him how he felt about me, he told me that he cared about me a lot, was attracted to me, enjoyed my company, but didn't want to interfere with my marriage. And, that he was involved in a committed relationship. Unfortuately, I didn't hear that part. In fact, I told him that if he had been more forth coming about his relationship, we'd be sitting having coffee...not trying to figure out how to disconnect. <p>But it's over and done with. And yes, there's a part of my brain and heart that hopes that someday we can be friends again. <p>(I know we never will be friends, but I like to think that in an ideal world, we can be friends with the people we love and connect with. I think, well maybe when I'm 80 years old, we can be friends again...)

#415232 06/17/02 04:45 PM
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JL-- this is strange...are you sure you don't know me? I can't believe how what you say speaks directly to me. I have never fully let my husband in and "be there for me." I know I have this barrier up because I want to be strong and the one "in charge" of the relationship and not vulnerable to him. I let myself be vulnerable to OM and therefore developed this closeness to him that I am having so much trouble giving up. If I can just let my husband be the one to help I can see what you are saying could be true.

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