I'm hoping that the WS's are as welcome as the BS's. <p>I betrayed my spouse too many times. One particular manat different points throughout our 9 years together. He knew about PA #1 with him, but just in May did he find out about PA #2 and #3. #3 lasted a little more than a year. I have cut off all contact with OM and no longer desire to even hear his name. <p>My husband found out through my computer. I had a virus, and he being the computer guru tried to fix it. This virus captured certain things, and that's how he discovered the affair. He ran a spy program through my computer to find all my passwords and then accessed all my mail accounts, my cell phone records, everything. I lied about it at first, but finally confessed to it all.<p>I know that I am the lowest scum on the earth for what I did. Through reading His Needs, Her Needs, I discovered WHY I did what I did, but obviously my BH doesn't care why I did it. We are in counseling, just finished a 2 session intake, now start the "real" stuff with a new therapist this week.<p>It's a rollercoaster. He has many questions for me time and time again. Many times asking the same questions.<p>What can *I* do to help him. I desperately want to make this marriage work. He says he loves me. I've told him I deserve all the pain. I told him that I haven't expressed my feelings because I feel that I deserve to keep all of it inside and hurt more.<p>We have made love since he found out. The first time I cried, an emotional release of sorts, like it meant that we were going to stay together. <p>We have been together 9 years, married 7 (as of July '02). Two boys 6 and 3 (as of 6/15). Both boys have special needs (doesn't help any marriage). <p>Please help me do whatever I can to save my marriage.<p>Thank you.<p>-Lisa
Lisa21476@yahoo.com

Reading the information on the site is helpful. There are also some other WWs who post here who can advise.<p>I think most BSs want to hear affirmations of love, and remorse. Also make your life an open book to your husband. You'll have to prove to him why he should trust you again some day and that the affair is truly over.<p>It will take time for him to recover- if recovery is possible.<p>If he is hurt, comfort him. If he is angry, don't defend yourself. He may need to express his angry feelings as part of the healing process.<p>In crafting a recovery plan, take into consideration the issue of having 2 children with special needs. It's very stressful- 70% of parents of special needs children end up getting divorced.<p>Good luck!

Welcome to MB LisaT;<p>First of all, you've done the right thing by coming here for help, and you've done the right thing by confessing and looking for answeres to fix your M.<p>A very good start for you would be to read the Articles and Q&A sections of this site regarding infidelity and recovering from infidelity.<p>Dr. Harley's book Surviving An Affair (better know here as SAA) is an excellent guide, step by step, of the things he recommends doing; that is very helpful.<p>There are numerous questionnaires here also, about Emotional Needs, Love Busters, etc. that you can download and fill in for yourself and your husband. These will be part of the process.<p>Again; welcome! We're sorry you are in this terrible situation, but we're glad you have come here seeking help. You will find comfort, advice, and at times a flame or two, but if you are sincere in your desire to rebuild your M, you will find a sympathetic ear here ar MB. There are many WSs here as well, and they are sure to be a good source of information and guidance.<p>Our best wishes!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I think what Espoir has written is excellent. I guess this may be of help. Ask yourself what things you would want to hear from your husband if the roles had
been reversed.
Your husband is in a great deal of pain and I am sure his self-esteem is absolutely shot. When you make love to him be prepared that he is wondering if you are comparing him to your other lovers and sometimes this is a big hurdle.
Answer the question to him why he should trust you now and what has really changed?
I wish you luck.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by LisaT:<strong>
Through reading His Needs, Her Needs, I discovered WHY I did what I did, but obviously my BH doesn't care why I did it.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>So what did you discovered that made you do what you did?<p>Do you know now what you need to do, as far as boundaries, to avoid falling into the same trap of another A?<p>You are indeed very lucky that your H says he loves you and wants to continue to be married to you. Compare this with the 3 OM that only wanted you as a piece of meat - the forbidden fruit - to pleasure themselves with but had no desire to love you and be there for you during the good and bad times. I do not say this to make you feel bad but to make you aware of the reality of how the OM REALLY viewed you.<p>As far as helping you H is concerned. I would answer all of his questions even if they are the same ones because sometimes the answers you give him may lead to more questions or make no sense at all. Be patient with him and he will reciprocate in kind.<p>Part of why you probably did what you did was because you were not emotionally honest with him. I say this because of your statement "I told him that I haven't expressed my feelings because I feel that I deserve to keep all of it inside and hurt more." which shows that you want to keep things hidden from him than to share them and have his support to overcome them. It is also a trust buster when you want to keep things hidden from him because he will now notice this when you start withdrawing from him.<p>I also advise you to read Harley's 'Surviving an affair' because it goes into much greater detail than 'His Needs Her Needs' on the subject of infidelity and how to overcome it to build a better M.<p>This board is NOT for BS's only but for ALL people - BS's and WS's alike - that want to rebuild and fortify their M after an A. You certainly qualify as one. So welcome.

I emailed you LisaT.

Thanks for the replies. Going bowling tonite really helped with some of my frustrations.<p>It's not so much that I'm hiding things with not talking, it's more my feelings, things about my past/childhood that he might not know or realize. Through all this and how he is so hurt, I feel like I have no right to express my hurt and pain.<p>Why did I do it? My needs were not being met. Sounds so corny to say, but so true I saw. I needed affection, but I felt affection with my husband had to lead to intercourse. We've discovered affection again without intercourse, and it's been wonderful. We're also spending much more time together. We were not doing that before. Another thing we were severely lacking were communication skills. We are working on those.<p>Tonite was very painful. He went online to our phone bill and saw that someone I had an EA with online (never met, so no PA) and I had spoken to on the phone, well, we had apparently had very lengthy conversations. I told him we spoke on the phone, but I never realized how long we spoke. That send hubby into a fit (which I totally understand) and he gave me back his wedding band. I look forward to him putting it back on again.<p>I have most definitely shown remorse, no doubt about that. We are looking into doing a Retrouvaille weekend. I want to get back into our faith more (was really crushed this year when the priest that married us was found to have molested children), and I hope this is a way for us.<p>I look forward to learning from those who are more advanced in the recovery than we are. Thanks!

I'm glad that your emotional need for affection without sex is finally beign fulfilled by your H. But I'm puzzled because you admitted that all your 3 A's were PA's and here a PA almost undoubtedly means that there was sexual intercourse involved. So please enlighten me as to how these PA's fulfilled your affection without sex.

Filling the need for affection just naturally lead to sex. I was weak, I admit it, I had no willpower. I had an issue for many years of using my body to get men to like me, as if that's all that I had to offer.<p>I am realizing I am a better person than that and I am gaining self respect.<p>The 3 As that are spoken of though are all with the same OM. I've realized that he's had a very sneaky way to get me to believe him so that I would fall into bed with him.<p>Now to work on having my husband wear his ring again. I told him last night that I felt uncomfortable wearing mine while he wasn't wearing his. Mine is nestled in with his on his dresser right now. I hope that after our therapy session tomorrow we can both put it back on.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by LisaT:
<strong>
I am realizing I am a better person than that and I am gaining self respect.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Good for you Lisa

Hi LisaT, I sorry to see you hurt so bad, but I guess its part of the recovery process realizing the mistakes we've done wrong. Your story sounds so much like my now exw.....<p>I 'm glad you chose to look at yourself and examine why you did some things, what a blessing and reward that is to yourself. My exw refuses to look at herself and take accountability for her actions, she's not broken one bit and continues in affairs this day.<p>My exw had a need that i couldn't fill it was a God thing she needed and blamed it on me. She needed this GREAT need of affection, but it was so much affection needed that it was beyond the norm and no human on earth could ever fill her need....Thats because whats she was yearning for was the touch from her father that she never had,her father was not in the home growing up, therefore she's searching for it through other men as she's doing today......I hugged my wife and gave her so much of my time until it wasn't enough...so a lot of her issues are related to her past..<p>If you keep on the road you're going I think you have a good chance to restore your marriage.

I would suggest you put your ring back on that is just another slap in the face to your already hurt H.

Welcome LisaT,
I read your first post and my heart stopped for a few moments--thinking it was my WW posting about our M. It scared me actually! Yes, our situation is very similar, but my WS has NOT come to the realization that she is doing something very wrong and hurtful. <p>Having been down this road before I can offer some bits of advice for you, although, I am not sure it is exactly what you are looking for...<p>First, don't place any pressure on your H trying to be a part of the marriage; it is counter-productive. He'll come around when he's ready and confortable doing so.<p>Second, Wearing a ring has no bearing on the status of the relationship. It's only superficial. I took mine off this morning, but the status of my marriage is still in bad shape. Focus on yourself instead.<p>Third, showing remorse for what you have done is doing more than you think to help put your M back on track. My WW never has done this; she has only tried to reverse the blame or cover up what she has done. This has been the hurdle that has keep me very angry and negative towards her over the past 5-6 years. Don't give him an excuse to be mad! <p>Fourth, Read read read! You've had some suggestions here already. Keep going. The more you understand, the better prepared you be for any outcome.<p>Lastly, Hang on to yourself. Don't give away the farm to try and satisfy your H. This is about him too.<p>Your comments on an issue of using your body to acquire affection is very interesting to me. It something that fits very well with a men's desires to seek sexual gratification. The problem is that it is a situation that probably no sustainable.<p>Question:
What was it that caused you to reevaluate your relationship with your H? <p>Good Luck to you!!! You are a lot further along than you might realize.<p>Sweden

Lisa,<p>If I could give you several pieces of advice, they would be: give it time and have patience. This is going to take awhile. You have had 9 years to tear this thing up and it won't mend in a few weeks.<p>My last piece of advice is to behave as if you are married and want to be married. Taking the ring off is telling your H " Oh yeah, I can play that game too." Only the problem is it isn't a game. He is deciding if he wants you for a wife. If you have decide that you want him for a husband, act like it.<p>Finally, if there were one word I would use to describe how you can help your H best, I would suggest the word "grace". Behave, act, and interact with him in a graceful way. He is very damaged right now. He will heal of that there is no doubt. The only issue is will his heart heal with you in it or out of it? You have much more control over that than you think.<p>If you have doubts about reacting to something he has said or done, ask yourself what would be the graceful way to handle this. And then do it that way.<p>Do read Surviving an Affair. It will show you things you probably haven't thought of.<p>Hang in there.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I made another mistake tonite and just pray that we can even get past this now. There was an OM that I had just an EA with. We never met, but spoke on the phone and had cyber chats. At one point my husband called his house, and I told him that my husband called. For the past month I have lied to my husband and told him that I didn't tell that OM that he called. Tonite I finally admitted it, after all this time.<p>How could I be so stupid to hold out on one thing that was so minor. That was the only thing I was holding out on. We had finally made a baby step forward and now boom, back to day 1.<p>He has said that he wants me to take a polygraph. I have no issue with the concept of it, I have nothing to hide. I do fear the cost. I also fear that they are not 100%.<p>He has said that he wants to set a time limit in his mind (6 months for instance), a length that he would not tell me (no problem). If, at the end of this time he still has questions, then he will file. I know that I am not hiding anything anymore, I have to be open and honest with every aspect of my life now, so I will just keep doing what I've been doing.<p>Now that I think of things, I have to admit, I feel like I am doing Plan A in reverse. Yes, all contact from me is cut (he still talks to the OM when he has questions that he feels I am not being honest with), but I am looking to satisfy HIS needs with no worry of my own being met. Is this normal?<p>I'm sure I echo what most are thinking when I wish that I could turn the clock back. I just cannot believe how stupid I was to do this and think that it would help anything.<p>He wants me to start loving myself more, I was just getting to that point, but forget it, I've brought myself way down again.<p>With him setting a time limit in his mind, I feel like I need to make sure that I start saving and saving my own money so I can support myself when he files, but then I wonder why I should think the worst instead of working on the best?<p>I apologize if none of this makes sense, my mind is a total mush right now.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by LisaT:
<strong>
With him setting a time limit in his mind, I feel like I need to make sure that I start saving and saving my own money so I can support myself when he files, but then I wonder why I should think the worst instead of working on the best?
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I do not know your H but if he hasn't kicked you out of the house because of your A's, it's probably because he loves you very much. Maybe this warning to you is more of a vent to get you to stop lying and disclose everything relating to your A's.<p>Try to be accountable as much as possible so that he can start building his trust in you.

Hate to say it TooMuchCoffeeMan, but you are right! He wanted to scare everything out me of, or at least put the fear in me to reveal more. There is no more though. Sick part of me wishes that there was so that I could satisfy that crave of his.<p>I believe we are going to go for the Joint Agreement. I told him I wanted it as part of recovery, he said he wanted it for life. I cannot explain the joy I felt when he said that.

I am very happy that your H wants to practice the POJA because it is a very important principle in building true intimacy between couples.<p>Have you or your H read any of the Harley books like 'Surviving an affair''Love busters''His needs Her needs', etc.? If you haven't I would strongly suggest that you do because they are some of the best books on marital recovery with a game plan for achieving it.<p>Lisa one of the things that are discussed in the books on the subject of how to affair proof you your marriage, is the issue of boundaries. A boundary would be for you and your H to avoid having opposite sex friends as individuals - instead of as a couple - that you confide your marital problems to or simply fill the emotional needs of conversation or recreational companionship. Another boundary is to avoid having friendships with the same sex friends that encourage you or your H to have an affair on the old 'what s/he doesn't know won't hurt him/her' these so called 'friends' can be found everywhere especially in the workplace. And one last one is to avoid going out alone to bars with the boys or the girls for a night out of drinking and dancing because not only does it take important quality time away from both of you but because alcohol combined with affair enabling 'friends' tends to be a dangerous combination. Of course there are more but I beleive that the ones I just mentioned are some of the best for protecting you and your husband from having an affair.

Thanks TooMuchCoffeeMan [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I have just about finished (have about 20 pages left) of His Needs, Her needs. He has read a lot of Surviving an Affair, but couldn't read further. There is another one he is reading, I think it's called After the Affiar. Not a Harley book, but one from his side. Talks about a lot of issues we've had too, about porn, masterbation and more.<p>I already told him that the way I was going to prove myself to him was to not have these male friendships. A hobby I have is something that many men are involved in, but, it's something I can most definitely enjoy without other men involved. It is a hobby I am trying to get my husband more knowledgable about (he wants to know more) and it's also something my children can participate in.<p>I do admit to right now having one night out with "just the gals". It's bowling on an all-women's league. I know last summer there was also a men's league, but I didn't even notice if that was the case again this year. I feel guilty that I get home at about 11pm those nights, especially because my cell phone does not work in the bowling alley.<p>My job (other than being a SAHM) is that I work for myself. I do have to go out and about to see my customers, but my kids can come with me most times without issue. I am lucky in that I do not interact with men that often in my job.<p>I am accountable for my time to my husband. I've told him he can check my computer whenever he wishes and that my internet history will show that I was surfing the net at a particular time. My 3yo son goes to school 3 mornings a week. Mondays are my "free time" to do as I wish. Wednesdays are therapy for us and Friday mornings I bowl on another league (I'm doing 3 leagues this summer!). This is good because I only have Mondays for him to really worry about. This past Monday our son was sent home early from school (tiny cold gave him a 100 fever), so my time was easily accounted for. Come September, he will go to school 5 days from 9-3, like my older son. I'm hoping my then we have worked on the trust issues a bit. Luckily September also starts my busy holiday season.<p>Sorry to be long winded, especially before caffeine is in my system yet! Have a great day!

Oh my LisaT, you have no idea how well I understand everything you are going through. I am the WS as well, if you want to read my detailed story go to "My husband just found out" on this same message board. I too have gone through some blowups that pushed us further apart. I've learned that any interactions that I have with my H have to be ones of kindness, openness and calmness, no matter what or I'll drive him further away. Keep this same thing in mind with your H.
I am going to counselling by myself, he is not willing to go (he feels that he isn't the problem so he doesn't need any). How did you persuade your H to go?
It's great that you're reading all those books together and having open dialogue - that is the road to recovery for sure. I am curious if you know the author of the third one you mentioned that you said your husband picked up. My H had (has) an intense obsession with porn and I am curious if I / we can gain some insight from that book as well.
Good luck with everything, I understand more than you know!!
Jen Brown
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by LisaT:
<strong>I made another mistake tonite and just pray that we can even get past this now. There was an OM that I had just an EA with. We never met, but spoke on the phone and had cyber chats. At one point my husband called his house, and I told him that my husband called. For the past month I have lied to my husband and told him that I didn't tell that OM that he called. Tonite I finally admitted it, after all this time.<p>How could I be so stupid to hold out on one thing that was so minor. That was the only thing I was holding out on. We had finally made a baby step forward and now boom, back to day 1.<p>He has said that he wants me to take a polygraph. I have no issue with the concept of it, I have nothing to hide. I do fear the cost. I also fear that they are not 100%.<p>He has said that he wants to set a time limit in his mind (6 months for instance), a length that he would not tell me (no problem). If, at the end of this time he still has questions, then he will file. I know that I am not hiding anything anymore, I have to be open and honest with every aspect of my life now, so I will just keep doing what I've been doing.<p>Now that I think of things, I have to admit, I feel like I am doing Plan A in reverse. Yes, all contact from me is cut (he still talks to the OM when he has questions that he feels I am not being honest with), but I am looking to satisfy HIS needs with no worry of my own being met. Is this normal?<p>I'm sure I echo what most are thinking when I wish that I could turn the clock back. I just cannot believe how stupid I was to do this and think that it would help anything.<p>He wants me to start loving myself more, I was just getting to that point, but forget it, I've brought myself way down again.<p>With him setting a time limit in his mind, I feel like I need to make sure that I start saving and saving my own money so I can support myself when he files, but then I wonder why I should think the worst instead of working on the best?<p>I apologize if none of this makes sense, my mind is a total mush right now.</strong><hr></blockquote>