I am so glad I found MB-isn't the net great? I typed in "affair" and here I am. I have been reading and I need some advice from you. I can tell now that I have done a lot of LBing and I know how to change, how to go to Plan A. My H has been working strange hours, long hours, but...NO OVERTIME PAY!hmmmm.... So he comes home in the wee hours, doesn't get up, won't help with kids or lift a finger at home, tells me "he's tired from working so hard" and expects sympathy. Last week, between his hours and his cell phone bill I finally realized! I don't have hard proof, but it issomeone from his old job, so the phone calls he could just say he was talking to the guys there. He knows he is safe cos I am home 30 miles away with a baby and preschool girls. What should I do?
I have not said anything to him-the post about aliens taking his brain really rang true. I'm ordering HNHN & SA & LB. I'm so angry, hurt, confused...<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: shaz87 ]</p>

Welcome shaz87...<p>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It has a lot of quick links to many of the most important MB sites...
Click here ==> General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)<p>About your post...<p>For your sanity...
...and as a reason to Love Bust...
...check out...50 signs your spouse is having an affair (All found on this board).<p>Do start on a Plan A...
Check out the post Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.).<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Jim / NSR

NSR-Thanks for your info!
I've been gone with a sick daughter but I'm back with more questions!
I followed the links (Thanks a lot!) and they were very helpful. He has not worn his ring in a long time, lots of other signs.
I think I'm going to have trouble with Plan A since he will not talk to me or spend any time with me other than necessary, and I feel so angry and resentful I'm not sure I can do it-but I must, if only for our children. I have no one I can talk to about this, so any advice is welcome.

Hi,
I looked for your post. We have something in common, we are both 6 years older than our H's. Sometimes I've wondered if that has been an issue with him. My being older. <p>Having anyone to talk to about this is not easy, most friends immediate response is to dump him. They don't realize that trying to make it work is the hardest thing to do in these situations. You will get lots of support out here.<p>Even though he isn't home much, when he is, Plan A. As much as mine is not home, he has been home more than before after I started Plan A. He did notice a change in me. I also feel better, not being angry and such. I get down alot, but that is about it.

Hi Sue-thanks for seeking me out. Yes, we are-and my parents had the same difference as well. Not common, especially back then. I hadn't noticed that similarity, but I did relate to a comment you had made about weight-I have not been able to lose my baby weight from my DD's, and I could stand to drop about 80 lbs. I would like to, but I have gotten no support from my H-he makes rude comments, but even when I joined a Curves (have you seen them?) he will not watch the kids so I can go. I have been torn lately-I get the idea that Plan A is for me as well, so I have been focusing on myself (for once), and am starting to feel better there, but at the same time, the idea that he is getting affection and joy from someone else while I am lonely at home has been very hard. I guess I'm glad we don't fight, but he just treats me like a babysitter and housekeeper (and a poor one at that-I had to wait for something the other day and asked him to give me a book to read and he said "why don't you spend the time thinking of how to clean the house") [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
Now he tells me he is going out of town July 4th weekend-a lame excuse. Obviously he is fogged or he would not have expected me to believe it, and all I can think is howbadly he must want to be with her.
I don't get to be online often but it's nice to be able to get support here-I don't have anyone I can talk to.

Hi<p>It sounds sort of like you are sort of in a spot I was in approx 7 years ago with my H. I handled that poorly. I yelled, screamed, begged, cried non of which worked. He left. About 6 months later, I decided it was time to go forward and make a life for me an the boys. (I did not do this to get him to notice or think ohno, she moving on w/o me). But that ended up being the result. He go worried that I would find someone else, and that they would be daddy to his boys. He also asked some really dumb questions that if I married someone else, could he get out of paying CS. I told him only if he signed away his parental rights and let him adopt his kids. No ways was he going to allow this.(There was not a new man in my life, and he knew it, he started thinking there would be soon). He was concerned that the kids would have someone else in his life. I told him that is the risk you took when you left. I was not going to put my life on hold because he didn't know what he wanted.<p>Anyway, now I suspect he is back with the same woman. When I planned A, I PLANNED A. Total full circle. He could not help but notice. <p>Lets start with one of my LB's - sex. I was too tired. I told him no alot. I did a major turnabout there and started making some very bold advances. I once had a male friend who made this comment about women. A man wants a women who he can bring home to meet the parents, and a tramp in the bedroom. Now I don't know if that was his particular take on the subject or if a lot of men feel that way. I didnt go total tramp, but I needed him to notice. (I don't know if this would work with your guy or not) He says I scare him now. I have the "peg bundy" look in my eyes. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] There are those who with good reason would suggest that if H is sleeping with another, don't have sex. However is Sex is high on his EN list, you decide. Initially I got some rejection. If the rejection was strong, I backed off, and said okay. "I love you". I didn't ask for any "I love you" back. I waited a couple of days and tried again. When the rejection was weak I was a little insistant and took my cue from him if I should back off or not. (trying to not pressure on him, but letting him know I find him desirable.) You know what this area is like and if he prefers to be the aggressor or if he likes you to be the agressor. (I hope I'm not too forward, it just I knew what my H liked and I started doing it). Amazing I was less tired, and I stared feeling "In Love" instead of just "love". In away I felt like we started over. <p>Body Image: I have to ask, what state do you live in - dont have to answer if you don't want to. I'm in MN. I have a Curves 2 blocks from my house and another one about 5 miles away. Almost joined. figured I wouldn't have time. Can you get a babysitter so you can go? If not, I work out at home. Years ago I bought the Callanetics tape. Don't need major equipment. The tape I bought has something to do with looking 10 years young in 10 hours. No, you do not do a 10 hour work out - it will kill you [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Her exerciese are killers. H noticed within 2 weeks my butt was smaller. All you need is a VCR. I recently ordered the FIRM, another killer on the muscles. I also found that when I was upset about the situation if I worked out for an hour, I felt better. My mood improved. How do I put this so it does not sound like I dont' care about my M or my H. As I put energy into working out, I obsessed less and less about him and what he is into. Put the kids in a stroller and go for a walk. After my second was born, I had troubles losing the weight. This was also when he left the first time. I walked alot then. Needed to get out. The walls were closing in on me. In 2 months time, (without trying) I went from a size (I dont' know,could not fit in size 16) to a size 10. Walking daily boost the metabolism, makes you feel better about self. Also, it helps to reduce stress. I just finished a nutrition course. One of things the intstructor told us that stress makes you gain weight. I guess your metabolism slows down, and you release (I forget what) which when unused converts to glucose (it has to do with the "fight or flight" mechanism in the body. Unused glucose converts to fat. <p>If he senses that you are down, he may pick up on it. He may not realize it, but it will contribute to a LB. <p>Does your community have a Moms' club or some other activity you can involve yourself with so you are not sitting at home wondering what is he doing? I didn't ask are you a stay at home mom? Or do you work?<p>Housework - my most hated job. H does very little, okay almost none to help out here.. On the plus side, his mom was a horrible housekeeper and I came from a home where you kept it clean. Since I don't have alot of time for housework, and I keep it cleaner than what he grew up with, to him our house is clean. Beside, I told him once that if he was not going to help clean he could not complain. I reminded him that I work FT and go to school PT, so what does he expect. Probably a LB, but at the time I didn't care. (Also stated it before I found MB). I don't complain about how much I hate the housework.<p>Work on the being lonely. Like I said, you can join a Mom's group, then do it. What sort of recreation did you two used to do. Does he still do it. Ask him to join you on your walks (that is if you start. He may say no initially. Does he golf like mine does? Ask questions about it, show an interest. That is when mine made the comment that if I knew how, we could golf together. I jumped all over that one. He has been looking at golf clubs for me.<p>If I can think of anything else I will come back. The key is make yourself happy. <p>The very worst you are looking at is M will fail despite all your good efforts, by that time you will be ready for it. And you will be happy with you.<p>I guess I'm saying find things to keep you busy. However, let them be flexible, so that when he is there, you can work on Plan A. <p>Another examle, he has been bugging me for about 3 years to fix the zipper in his leather jacket. I have not had any desire to do so. (this is because for fathers day 7 years ago, I made matching tank tops and shorts for him and the boys. He did not appreciate that hard work that went involved. That crushed me. When I sew, I put some of me into it because I enjoy it so much. So I have not had any desire to do any sewing for him.) I told him when this class is over I will look at his jacket and see if I can fix it. If I can't I will take it to a seamstress that can. <p>What worked for me, may not work for you. One of the things I did was I thougth back to our life before children, what did we do, what was I like. I could not be her again, but I can be a different version of that fun person I used to be. I also thougth back to what was I like when he came back after he left the first time. (Now he even moved in with her back then). Even though we were not legally married. my opionion was she was the OW, we made a family together. <p>H is still wondering when is it all going to end and grumpy Sue will return. He did comment to day to me that since I've been nicer to be around he is starting to put out a better product???. I think he is saying that he wants to be around me more????? I knew it was a compliment. <p>So, keep plan A'ing, and make yourself happy. The rest will follow. (Don't forget about him in your pursuit of happiness, after all he is part of the reason why you want the new and improved you)<p>One more thing - what is working for me may not work for you. I'm one of those who once I decide, I sort of move ahead full steam. (Some find it overwhelming.) Okay, most find it overwhelming. I'm also trying to type this fast as my break is almost over and I am at work. so some of this may be jumbled and sounds somewhat overbearing. There were times I did tone things down. I do ask where is he going, but don't push it. I do say "I love you" at least 1x per day. even though I get home at midnight, I get up at 6am and make his lunch. This is important to him. (I used to refuse to get up) I started showing him I care and that he matters. And at the same time, I take care of me. I think that as I started becoming happier with me, it reflected in my attitude. That is what he noticed. <p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]<p>[ June 24, 2002: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</p>

Sue-Thanks again for seeking me out! I am on here hit-or-miss as I have a couple minutes. I really appreciate your advice, 'cos you are right on target. I live outside Chicago and yes we do have Curves-I tried to join but we could not work out any time for me to go. H has so little regard for my needs I am lucky if I get a shower! But maybe I could work it out on my own. If not walking sounds like my best option.
Someone else mentioned goals, and that has been on my mind tonite. Even just getting a haircut is one goal for me. I'm thinking of making a list for myself-you have given me a good start!
I'm so glad I found this site. I feel like I would have lost my mind by now if I couldn't come here to vent, or even just to lurk and read all the posts-it helps to know I'm not the only one going thru this.
Thanks again for your advice and encouragement!

Shaz - coming here has helped me keep my patience with my own M. If I did not have this to come to, I probably would have LB'ed him out the door by now. (LOL). I understand where you are coming from. One of the things I told myself, was that he is not going to do what I want by asking. It is obvious. He hasn't yet. So, I was going to have to find ways to make it happen. (He has been a little more cooperative now, not as much as I want. Baby steps). I used to not get my haircut unless it was convient for my H. I started making the appt. I would tell him I have an appt at such and such time, can he watch the kids. If not, I found a sitter or I took them with. (I go to a small salon so leaving my kids in the waiting area is safe. If you go to a large salon, I would not recommend it.) Once I came home from getting my hair cut, my stylist always styles it as part of the service. My H commented on how nice I looked and wanted to know if I had a date (lol). I told him no, unless he was asking me out. Now, some might be alarmed at this statement, but I decided to take the attitude that if we were not together, I would have to find ways to make this happen, so I started doing things this way. The only thing I expect from him is that he is home in the evenings while I work, I attend classes during the day. (Once we fought about my going to school, and he wanted me to quit. I told him If I quit school, I quit work and will never work again, (I know another LB, again before I found MB). (and I wonder why my M is in trouble, a little overbearing aren't I. Okay, okay, alot overbearing.lol) <p>Don't get me wrong, I did not give up on my M. I realized that the complaining was not getting me any where. I was probably doing some Plan A before I found this site. The biggest hang up was the ANGER. I had to lose it. It was tough, and when it creeps back, I come here and vent or i write it in my journal. I have found I am venting less.<p>Take care

Hey Sue-once again you are right on target! You know my H does not wait to get his hair cut-he says "I am going to the barbershop" and walks out the door! Why can't we do that? He would panic-when will you be back?has the baby napped?but I have to mow the lawn!(or change the oil in the car, or whatever his agenda is...) [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Now I am getting quite the list of goals. If he can present as a fait accompli that he is flying to CA for the whole of July 4th weekend, I guess I can make appts for a haircut and contacts. If he isn't willing to have any consideration for me I will have to consider myself!
Thanks for the support!

One last quick post then i'm for bed. I think I'll start journaling-that sounds like agreat idea! Just to get some of this out of my head and off my chest so to speak!
Would you be interested in emailing? I'd love a pen pal, so to speak. My e-mail address is
I'll delete it in the morning.
Thanks for your support, Sue. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 25, 2002: Message edited by: shaz87 ]</p>

Shaz - this is a hard situation to be in. The first time this happened, I didn't have anyone to talk with. Those who I could talk to initially, always said "dump the loser". So I made many mistakes. No one wanted to talk to me. I also lost some "friends" because I took him back. (I heard she lost all her friends because she got involved with my H, not surprisingly so, since those friends were also friends of my sister and her H, my sister did not introduce them, a mutual friend did. It was not with the intent of them getting together. This friend introduced her to my H and a friend of his (the original intent was she was too meet H's friend))<p>Because we were not married at the time, some also had the attitude that I brought it on myself because we were not married. There may be some validity to that statement, but the pain is still real. <p>The one thing I love about this site, you can vent, ask advice, before you do something get feedback, and all of this comes from those who have been there and done it. The pass on what works for them, what failed for them. And to offer support, which is what we really need.

Sue-Yes that all sounds true for me as well. I feel sure that any of my friends or family that I talk to would tell me to boot him out the door, and then if we are successful in rebuilding our marriage, then I will regret confiding in them, and if we are not they will think I am a doormat with no self-esteem for even trying so hard. I think the advice I'm getting from this site is more on-target, and less judgemental.
And as you say, I like the way people post their letters, etc, and get feedback on what to do next, or not do.
For now I think I'll just focus on my Plan A as you have been helping me, and come here to vent or get the support I need.
Thanks again, and good luck with your Plan A too. It can't be easy working, going to school, keeping house, raising kids, and trying to be your best self. I feel tired just typing it, much less doing it! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

LOL, the key to living my life is no more than 5 secs of self pity per day. Then 15 sec pep talk. Lose the superwoman image (she does not truly exist) and do what has to be done. Sometimes on the fly, but I get it done.<p>I tried your e-mail last night - if it didn't work let me know

I see on our news station you are getting the rain we had yesterday. We have more coming today [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I don't know how much more the basment can take. I'd be happy to blow this Colorado's way.

Hi Shaz- you posted on Ukers thread and I have just found yours. How are things with you. my thread can be found on the General Questions board as there is usually more traffic there. Hope things are going well for you.
|Jante