My H had an affair with a co worker and it has caused both of them to be terminated. After the termination,contact continued and I have evidence of this. I am in the process of separating from him. Our family is completely broken. The OW's family doesnt know about what has happened because he continues to lie to her family. Should her H be told?
Also, when your H refuses to leave - what options are there?

Careful! Don't make any big decisions while in crisis. If you think it's possible that you will want to reconcile in the future, it might be best to live together for now. Once you have made the adjustment to living alone, it can be very easy to divorce. This doesn't mean that you have to sleep in the same room. Can you run away for some peace and quiet on the weekends?

Take a very deep breath and give yourself some time. My WH also had an ongoing A with a co-worker/employee. I made the mistake before I found marriage builders of losing it and kicking him out of the house as my initial reaction (the lying had been going on so long I thought I was losing my mind). Anyway, I deeply regret making that rash decision and it was very hard to try and do anything that would help our relationship with my H living elsewhere. It probably kept me from losing it all the time in front of him and angry outbursts and I did learn a lot about myself, BUT, I would not recommend making that kind of decision when you just find out.<p>Read here and get some books that will help you better understand/cope -- Surviving an Affair by the Harleys, After the Affair by Abrams-Spring (or something like that) and Private Lies by Pittman helped me. But mostly reading here and posting helped the most.

seeking,
I am so sorry to hear of your pain. I agree with the others that restoring the marriage will be harder if you are seperated.
I also belive that if the OW is married, you should tell her husband by all means. This helps to bring reality into the picture and completely blow there fantasy world apart, which is all that it is, fantasy.
God bless,
SH

Thanks for your response. I didn't Just Find Out but I have found out that there was more involvement than I thought. I hate feeling like an idiot and even more so getting betrayed.
Please keep posting - I need some solid advice!

The greatest challenge to the betrayed in these affairs is the lack of sincere remorse they feel for what they have done to you.
They feel bad because they can't see their lover for whatever reason...usually because for one of them, it was only a momentary lapse of reason...pure sex...an act of seduction to prove they could do it...just wanted to see what was under the clothes...(whoa, this new lover isn't as good as my spouse!)...<p>2 Reality is the biggest destroyer of affairs...you mean, I will have to deal with your kids and mine??? You mean you won't get to keep the cars, boats, etc etc???? You never learned how to take care of a home...and so on.

So the wayward spouse mopes around, silent, staring into space, jumps when you speak, walks out if you try to talk about anything serious, drives off without a word. And there you stand thinking...that person just destroyed my trust and faith, violated every intimacy we had ever shared, betrayed me and humiliated me to everyone that knew us and they are so self-centered they can only see themselves as martyrs...self-sacrificing romantics, forced back into a life of self-imprisonment with a boring family.<p>If you think the idiot is going to change for you and the kids, forget it. You are dealing with a selfish, immature person without any sense of decency, who doesn't understand anything about committment or morality and regardless of what is said to get you off their backs for awhile, they remain that same, hard-faced, liar that just broke your heart. <p>Be honest with yourself. Look at the person you are crying about. They really aren't worth the trouble, are they? Why destroy yourself trying to redeem someone who is beyond redemption? Accept the truth. Give it up. Take a walk. There's a new life, right around the corner and it's probably better than you can imagine...it certainly can't be much worse than you have at the moment. You can live without them!<p>
They never notice the pain they caused, they simply can't see it.

Seekingadvice,<p>Are you still there? Just saw a1911a's comments and felt the need to make a comment.<p>I'm also a BS and while I can understand a1911a's feelings, I don't think that his/her comments truly reflect the purpose/intent of the MB message board... Yes, I felt that way about my wife when I first found out, but over time (many years...) I realized that I had to take some responsibility for my part in creating a marriage environment where an affair was possible.<p>I'm not about to say that anyone should "stick it out" and work on their marriage if they make the decision to move straight to divorce... but this site is about building marriages... not blasting WS. <p>anyway, just my $0.02 worth.
RIF90

Seekingadvice
Please accept a (((((hug)))))
Do you mind if I ask you how long have you known about this affair? What attempts to make things better has he made so far if any? Is there still contact with this OW?
I'm a WS. We are in recovery but it's still tough at times. We have come a long way but still have a ways to go. When I had my affair I was on another planet? Don't ask me which one because it doesn't exsist. It was a fantasy world which exploded in my face. <p>I would think that losing his job would have opened his eyes up. They were both fired?? This is serious stuff. Please tell me they are both not continuing to see each other. I know you must feel so much humiliaiton and despair and you feel your life is out of control. One minute you cry, one minute you scream. My H was like that and still has his moments but it's getting better. <p>I can't believe I did what I did to him. I used to think to myself "How in the HE$$ did you ever get yourself so lost". I searched and dug deep and today I know why and I'm working on it along with him. It takes alot of work and big time committment. <p>There are great resources here but your situation sounds very serious if he lost his job over this affair. What about you? How is he able to support his family now? Do you have children. Sorry for all the questions. I want to help you but can you give us a little more. Just a brief how long this has been going on, when you found out and where you are now?<p>Is he living at home with you? For sure the number one thing is contact must end. I think if you went to her husband, it may just be the lightening bolt they need to wake up. I feel for her husband but sometimes you have to do something shocking for someone to wake up. I know, I have got the lightening bolt with a force 10 times greater than normal.<p>Are you still there tonight?<p>Hope we can help you
LisaK

Seekingadvice<p>Sorry. Just read your post again. You said your H refuses to leave? Am I reading this right. If he refuses to leave is it because he wants to work things out? If he doesn't want to leave, he must end contact with her by all means. I guess I'm not clear. If you don't mind telling us a little more, that will make it more easy for us to help you. <p>I hope that you know if two people are committed to work things out, regardless how bad the affair was, they can. I just worry for you since he got fired from a job. That is terrible. <p>LisaK

Thanks for all of your replies!
The affair started probably about a year ago and I realized that it was going on - confronted him but of course he denied it. They used to "do lunch" together and then in December when he finally admitted it they just started doing things at work - hence the bathroom scenario and the reason he was fired (she was fired also). You're right I am humiliated but I am getting over it b/c I am not going to feel shame for something that I didn't do.
We have 2 children so there is the question of financial support and it seems that finding a position that paid even 1/2 of what he made is almost impossible (he was paid very well). But he messed up and I refuse to worry over finances - I know that sounds crazy but I have a good job and somehow I will make it.
He has started seeing a counselor and is taking antidepressants. I am supposed to go to the counselor w/ him on Monday but I am really struggling with going. I am just praying that I will make the right decision. He refuses to leave the house b/c he says that he loves his family. Contact w/ the OW was continuing but I got fed up with snooping so I stopped and now I don't even care. He says that he isnt contacting her anymore but what is one more lie when you are chin deep in BS anyway???
I am sooo ticked at this man! Again thanks for the replies! If you have any more ideas PLEASE SHARE!

a1911a what is your story and what brings you to MB? Maybe I am being nosey but I really would like to hear your story.

Seekingadvice.<p>Not having too good a day myself but thinking if I help someone else then a negative is turned into a positive. <p>Okay. Yes that is the ultimate humiliation. Caught cheating at work in a bathroom but I totally agree with what you said. You have nothing to be ashamed about because YOU did not do this, he did. I'm a WS so I hated the part when my husband felt shame when I was the one that shamed myself. <p>Now, perhaps there are things you both did to contribute to the marriage problems but I know that cheating is NEVER the right thing to do or the resolution, Trust me I know. I learned and am paying greatly for it. I also got ahold of myself and am doing all I can to restore my marriage. <p>You say you have a good job. Thats a positive thing right there. You have two children and that is the best thing, they are gifts! Do you have any support like family/friend? From what I am reading of your personality, you are strong which is good and will work in your favor. <p>That he has contact with the OW and is still in the house is not cool but if he refuses to leave, then that is a whole other issue. Maybe he really does want to work it out but is in so deep that he himself cannot even dig himself out of his hole. I've been there. It took alot and a big lightening bolt but once confronted, I ended contact and concentrated on my marriage. This is not easy. For me, having the affair was running away from my problem at home. That never works. Today I wanted to run, for something that is going on but I know that running away won't help me so I'm here working on it.<p>S/A, I would at least and this will take alot from you, but at least give the counseling a shot. You never know, that may be what it takes for him to wake up. You should exhaust everything before you walk away so you know in your heart you tried everything. Afford yourselves the opportunity for the counseling. If he is willing to go, go. I went for me. My H would not. He doesn't believe in telling strangers our issues but that was okay. I respect his feelings and I went a few times for myself and it helped get the ball rolling for my recovery and his. <p>If you both split up, then yes, finances are an issue as far as support for your children but I can't help you there, I can only say you would need to talk to an attorney for that. Some even give free first time appointments, check around but don't throw in the towel yet. Give the counseling a try. It will not be easy. Recovery is not east. He is probably still in his fantasy land, Ive been there. I never want to go back there. Affairs are dirty, ugly and a bad way out of a problem. No one wins!<p>If I can help you more, tell me. <p>Has he ever said what the problem is at home? What caused this? I read you wanted to speak to her family. Did you? Don't take this on alone, get all the support you can. I know it's tough. <p>I guess what shocks me the most is they took it to alevel that caused them to lose their jobs, that is so very serious. <p>How are you today? <p>LisaK

Lisa -
Thanks for checking on me! I appreciate your concern. I think that you are awesome for being here (@ MB). I admire your strength to work on your marriage. I am still really torn about going to counseling with him b/c he is so withdrawn and shows no real remorse. I think that the reality of being unemployed is sitting in on him though. He had an interview and the man couldn't understand how he could just leave (he told them he resigned) a job making the amount of $ that he made and holding the position that he had. My H thought that he was up for consideration for the position but when the phone didn't ring he got down. He called them today and the man that he interviewed with wouldn't speak with him but told his sec. to tell him that he had his resume but he was still looking for someone to fill the position. My H is lower than dirt tonight. Maybe the reality is setting in. If not maybe when his checks stop going into his account it will. I hate to be so smug and I am truly working on having a gentle spirit but IT IS HARD!
So how are you? I hope that things continue to improve with your marriage. It takes a person of great strength and character to make the steps that you have. I am so glad that you are here to give us your perspective on affairs. Its nice to have the flip side of the story.
Hang in there and keep posting -
MB is so comforting (most of the time [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] )
Take care!

S/A
I'm hanging in there tonight. Glad you checked in and you sound okay. I know that its tough minute by minute believe me. <p>I don't want to sound mean but perhaps the job loss, the not so good interview, the man not being interested in him, are things being set in his path to make him wake up. God works in mysterious ways, trust me on that one. <p>I recall feeling like dirt too. I recall the first few weeks and months. I never felt more shameful and dirty in my whole life.<p>Your H, well I think he does feel remorse deep inside but right now he has been hit with a ton of bricks like you have, only his are <p>1. I lost my job
2. I turned my family upside down, betrayed my wife, kids
3. Where do I go next?<p>I'd venture to say too that depression has set in. He may need to go see a doctor for it. I think I need something for depression too because I often feel fatigued and out of energy and plain ole junky. I have been trying to just deal with it and save my marriage. I was where he was at one point, your H that is. <p>I honestly hope that he can snap out if it. That the counselor helps you. One thing is, don't think that because he is not bawling his eyes out, apologizing nonstop or that stuff that he has no remorse. He is most likely in shock for what he has done to his life and family and all for what? A big ole fantasy with some chick that in a few months he will care less about and in a year may not even think about? <p>You are STRONG for staying there and giving it a chance. I know you can do this. Please try not to pound on him about things, this will make is worse especially while he may still be in his fantasy land. See when WS's feel that way at home, they go to where they can escape it and run from it, and often that is to someone else who will BS them into thinking that THEY can make it better for them, not true! I fell for that too but thank GOD this all came out and my H and I have each other.<p>You work on you. You make things better for you. You make it so its safe if he wants to come tell you something, not accuse, belittle and all that, regardless how tempting it is. I know it is. My husbands anger was horrible at first and still at times he will lash out and nothing hurts us more than when that happens. I shut down and can't talk to him when it's like that. <p>If you want to save your marriage it can be done but it will take alot and be very painful. I know as if you have not suffered enough but recovery is no cake walk. You have to face so many things and bite your toungue so many times but it can be saved and you can find happiness, maybe even a better happiness than before.<p>LisaK

You are such a God-Send. I am seeing things more clearly now and you just confirmed by your reply that when I am in control and just biting my tongue he is more open. In small steps but it still helps. When he comes to bed now he thinks that I am asleep and he will put his arm around me. That affirms to me that he cares b/c he tried nothing else and just simply lays there. Physical contact is not even a thought with me but this is a form a intimacy that he has never shown before. Somedays I hurt so bad for him that I want to just hold him but there is such a wall there. Anyway - I hope I didnt share too much but I totally see how if I chill out and dont force issues - he opens up. When I push he retreats. I know that I have a long road and I am not sure of what I really want but I know that I still love him and somewhere down deep I will figure out how to express that. Tell me some things that your H does for you to help you feel more secure in the relationship.
His counselor recommended a book "The Myth of Greener Grass" - I think thats it.
We are both suppose to read it. Have you read anything that has helped you?

S/A<p>I'm not much of a reader of books but I read things here and there. I never heard of that book. Tell me about it if you like, I'm interested.<p>OH I'm so proud of YOU [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] You are doing the right thing believe me. I know the wall well. I have semi broke through my husbands wall and it will take time to tear down that wall but this time it may not ever come down all the way and that is okay. He can have a tiny wall to protect himself. See, you are so far ahead of so many others in that you are already aware that jumping on him and questioning to death is something that works against you both. <p>His coming to bed and holding you like that is his way of coming back but he is probably scared to death to touch you, like I was of my H. I didn't think he ever wanted me to touch him again. I thought that he would think I was repulsive but he didn't. He let me hold him but it took time, and in tiny steps he opened up more and more. He now will always want me to sit with him, near him and do stuff with him all the time but there is still alot of work to be done. He is very guarded with the " I love yous". He is drinking which he never did before. I'm learning he may be using the alcohol to numb the pain, actually he confirmed that and as much as I want to say "STOP DRINKING WHAT THE He$$ are you doing" I don't say that. So many people have helped me understand what he is doing by drinking. I post in Recovery mostly but happen to find your post the other day and needed to write you. <p>Thanks to some caring friends here I was able to have a discussion with him this morning that went semi-okay but I just got off the phone with him and as a result of me being calm this morning and taking the advice of some great people in the Recovery Board, the talk tonight was even better. He drank but only had 2 and was alert and wanted to talk about his day, my day, and coming home on Friday. <p>See, he thought about it all day. I didn't yell, accuse or scream at him and that in turn made him think about it. He felt safe coming to me and talking. He was trusting me again. I have been upset all day though. Been thinking things like maybe if I leave he would be happy and stop drinking and the pain would be gone since I must remind him of the pain, then someone who is awesome on the Recovery Board named "Knight-mare" gave me the kick in the behind I needed and told me to knock it off and stop thinking that way. They were right.<p>I'm still tired, have a ways to go but I won't quit. Good thing is that here I can vent and scream and cry and it's safe. People talk to me with rational suggestions on how to approach stuff and I think about them and am able to be strong again and face what I need to deal with. <p>Its an up and down thing for me but we are headed in the right direction. I love my H very much, made a horrible mistake and will spend my life making up for it.<p>Things my H does for me that allow me to feel okay. Well first off the last few days have been rough. We are working on the trust/security thing alot the last few days. He is out of town, feeling bad and a bit insecure about stuff, drinking and working very hard to boot. He will call sometimes in the middle of the night when he wakes up but I'm always here for him..but I won't base my answer on the last few days because we are working on some things right now but overall. My husband has forgiven me. He has given me a chance to prove I can be a better person and never make this mistake again. I know however if I ever slip up, which I won't but if I was to do this again, I would be gone out the door in 2 seconds. I still have days where I walk on some eggshells but that is because he too is dealing with his pain/anger and on top of my A, the death of his father whom he loved dearly. He has slowly been letting me in and doing more stuff with him. The other day we talked where we laughed till we cried, it brought us closer together in more so but its been a tough few days. I think one thing he does is he will ask me to do something, take care of something in order to build trust with me and I never let him down, where as before in the middle of my A, I was not being responsible, forgetting things and a total mess. So he is seeing a pattern now and trusting more and more but it takes time and work and lots of tears and talks. <p>I say the best thing you could do right now is ride out this storm a bit, go to counseling, let him talk, remain as quiet as you can. There is alot to be said for SILENCE IS GOLDEN. When you want to vent or scream, look me up and let it out. Let him feel he can come to you without being judged. Believe me his is judging himself big time right now. I did the same thing. I think men/women may handle it different, not sure but my H had worse anger in the start. The early months were the worst. We have our bumps in the road but its getting better. It's a day by day process. <p>That pain you are feeling for him and his actions. My H felt the very same thing and he has told me how many times he wanted to hold me so bad and cry with me but he left me alone to think about it and cry and it really killed him to do so but he was afraid to open up. Eventually he did. That part didn't last long. He could not take seeing me upset and knew that deep down I was a good person, the person he loved so much but I hurt him deeply and he had too, and still does, work that out. <p>I wish I could help more. Don't know if this is good but its because I'm having a tough week myself but I will be checking on you and hoping I can help you more. <p>Take care of yourself S/A. Get up, get cleaned up, do your hair, dress nice, and take care of yourself and the kids. Give it some time. He has alot that he is dealing with. Not only the betrayal to his wife but this cost him his job, that alone. I still can't believe they got caught and work and were terminated. If that is not a wake up call. <p>S/A. He is suffering from extreme shame/guilt right now. He is probably at a loss for words because really, anything he would say to you right now, wouldn't matter anyway. You don't trust him. He broke your heart and his words are meaningless. He will have to SHOW you not TELL you.<p>Please let me know how things are going and how counseling goes.<p>How long have you been married? I meant to ask you. Does your/his family know anything? Has he ceased contact with the OW yet. That is a MUST!<p>I care about you okay so stay in contact
LisaK<p>You can email me too if you like lisakaye@mail.com<p>Also I think you are on the road to recovery. You can come over to that form and post too. Lots of helpful people and more support for you too. Since you have been dealing with this for some time now. Of course its your choice but there are some great people in the Recovery section that can help you too.<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: lisakaye ]<p>[ June 20, 2002: Message edited by: lisakaye ]</p>