I would like to start out that I think this is a great service and wish I found it sooner. Great Job!<p>Well, it 5:50am I have'nt slept. Four cups of coffee. My situation is as follows. I have been with my girlfriend for six years. We had two children at the time ages 2 & 3 both boys. We have had many ups and downs. We moved from Texas to leave the parents and friends to come closer together and depend on each other. We have lived in the Denver area for a little over two years, things were looking good in the begining. In April of last year 2001 I left to Texas for two days and left my girlfriend here in Denver. My girlfriend had a few friends which were younger than her. I was 25 and she was 24, her friends were 18 and 19. Those two days I left were the days I found out she had an affair with one of her friends brother of 19. I found this out through constant lies. I followed her one day and figured it out. She had admitted to me April 27th. I went to court and filed a restraing order and told her to leave me and the kids alone. A few weeks passed and we started to talk and we got counseling for a while went to church and things seemed much better. UNTIL: in June we found out she was pregnant... I was terrified but knew there was a chance it was mine. She totally stopped contact with the guy and for nine months I worked and struggled for the new baby. In December baby came. I then was worried, did'nt look like me.. Did'nt look like her? But I put those feeling away and kept on trucking. Now comes the present. April 28th 2002, My parents come to visit. My girlfriend and I have an argument she slanders my parents tells them to leave and one thing leads to another and she's in jail for pulling me through a window. Now none of us wanted her to go but she was the one who called the police. I decieded that it was best for me to move out and create some space for us to deal with this situation. I was being honest and I thought she was too. UNTIL: May 21,2002 she had to go to court for the assalt which I was going to try to get dismissed, but that day I felt that should go to court and make sure nothing fishey was going on. I had my kids with me and my youngest needed to go potty. We were on the second floor when I gazed down towards the entrance of the court house and saw her walking in with none other than the guy from a year ago. I was angry, scared, hurt. I left right away and when she called I told her not too call anymore. Period. May 23rd she gets a restraing order against me and the court does the same action on my behalf. June 14, 2002 Have not talked to her or seen her kids neather. When to court to pitition parenting time for her to see the kids during there birthdays. I was granted the motion and proceeded to have her see the kids. When I saw her she looked scared, she had the baby with her of 6 months and we were going to the park but the kids fell asleep and that gave us time to talk. She told me she loved me and loved the kids and wanted us to figure something out. She first went with saying that "the guy" was just a friend, half an hour later I got out of her she had been sleeping with him sense the 24 of May. She said she had nobody to turn to for support.hmm
Well my make this long story short. We talked last night on the phone at about 11pm till 1am and she said that If I want to make this work she wants to get married right away, and she wants me to forget about everyone in my life including my parents and she would do the same. And she would like to move to another city nowhere close to Denver. Now I forgot to mention in Texas she has another 2 kids by different fathers, and this whole life of hers seems like a never ending loop. I now face the decision on wether to marry and move and forget about my friends and family to have a third chance which she is agreeing to counseling for one year. Or fight it in court and get my kids and move myself. I don't know what to do, my head is just totally screwed up. She says she loves me and wants to try again but for the first time she's willing to get married... Is this just a way to pull me in for good so she can torment me for the rest of my life or will she actually try to love and cherrish me and the family? I'm so confused I wish I had a cancel button on my head. If anyone can make sense of this please do, I need all the help.<p>Philip

What a story. You would be extremely foolish to marry this woman. She has constantly cheated on you. Your youngest child is probably not yours.
She is a violent person and disrespectful to you and your parents. She is young and has numerous children already. I am afraid that you would end up in living hell being with her. Of course she wants to get married as quickly as possible. You would be on the hook for total child support when she cheats on you again and files for divorce. I think you need to counseling to understand your low self esteem. My friend this woman is toxic to you and your life.

Just to let you know someone on-line is reading your post - <p>I'm sure that some more experienced MB veterans will be along soon and try to help _ I'm no expert, just someone working on trying to heal my marriage, too.<p>There's a lot of very wise information on the site which has helped me so much and I'd recommend you start reading - start with Basic Concepts and read up fast on "Love Busters".<p>Does your wife have a history of drug or alcolhol problems? It sounds like you slapped a RO on her the minute you found out she had had an affair - was that justified by her abusive or threatening behaviour? Or were you afraid she would take the kids and run? It's hard to get a clear picture from what you say. You said she has 2 other kids in Texas which she had prior to her R with you. Do they live with their fathers or her family? Did she abandon them? You say she "dragged you through a window" - so is this normal kind of behaviour for her?<p>Unless both or one of your families have a history of abusive behaviour, I don't think moving away from them is a good idea - families are generally your support group and moving away from them isolates you even further if you are with an abusive partner.<p>She sounds very troubled and if you want to figure out whether or not you can go forward with her, you should both get into counselling and talk things through, even if it takes a long time - getting older won't make things any easier and you both have a chance to start turning your lives around now, if you take it. I certainly wouldn't make any commitment to marriage until and unless you both reach a place in counselling where you can feel physically safe with each other - physical safety comes before emotional safety - trust comes later.<p>How close is she to the other guy? Living with him? Any way of finding out? What kind of person is he? Does he think he is the father of the baby? Would he fight for custody? And how is she supporting herself?<p>Lots of questions, but I hope someone wise comes along soon - just wanted you to know someone was out here listening.<p>Hang in there - and start reading. OK?<p>Odile

Hi Phil,<p>Welcome to MB. I am sure you are up reading and weeping. Very common for the BS like us. <p>Read the basic concepts section. U are in a slightly unique situation that those you have created a family with this woman you have not legalized this arrangement. <p>Now her pattern of making children and leaving them is alarming. Right now there are a few dads out on this board in similar situations but they are married. I will try to find a few of them and their insight as well as others may help. <p>I recommend you find the book love must be tough by Dr James Dobson. Whether you love her or not is not the question or issue. It is her attitude and actions. She does need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that she wants to earn the right to be in your family for the right reasons and those reasons should not be selfish ones. <p>You have a lot on your plate but if you keep posting here, you will have support. Getting a professional counselor will help. If you can speak to Jennifer or Steve it will help. <p>Bryan has given you straight up advice. It is in the right direction but I understand your reluctance since there are children involved. <p>take care,
L.

Well, thank you all for the quik posts. Let me answer some of your questions. The other two children in Texas are 9 and 6 she did not want to leave them but those families did not want her to go in and out of their childrens life and needed space to achive peace in there household. She also kept in contact untill 2 years ago when we moved she has told me she is scared to call. She was abused as a child sexualy and mentaly. We really have never hit each other but we have gotten close. I never thought she would make a big dicission like this. I have only slept an hour and am still very confused. I love this woman and would do anything but I do not want to forget my family. I will tell her this. The guy she is with or was with is only the person that got to her first as a helping hand someone to comfort her. My kids which my oldest who turned 4 today asks me daddy why cant me and my brother you and mama and michel (the baby) all live together all the time. I try to explain in a way I can but all I think is mabe she wants to do the long hall. She said she would be willing to get help for her past abuse and she wants to get better and she wants family counseling cause never knew how a normal family operated. I don't know If I'm diffending her but I just wish eveything was back to normal and she gives me hope. I'm affraid of letting my gard down and she just wants to hurt me more, but then she has never acted this way. My kids are waiting to go and have a birthday party with the whole family meaning me, her, and them. We get along fine but I feel so hurt. I can't or I don't know what to do about this feeling. My mother is here right now but has already booked a flight back to Texas because she wants me to deal with my problems my way cause she does'nt understand how I feel and she is frustrated herself. I know there's no quik fix but is there something I should do or do I already know what to do. Do I listen to my heart or to everyone that can see the picture clearly without my bs. I'm so affraid.<p>phil

Phil,
I have read your latest update and know that you need immediate support. Also your carrying this burden at this time is what most of us BS go through. <p>Maybe what you need right now is some direct support. Not just posting here. One of the guys from MB said he would be available. He said you can call him. Would you like that? I spoke with him this morning (my CA time) and he is in the Texas area. Let me know & I will post his addy. He will be on the road soon so I can call and pass messages until you 2 hook up. Is that a working option? This guy has been at MB for several years is very familar with the basic concepts and things we learn here. He has helped me in the past also. We are not professionals but are living experiences. <p>take care & I will be watching for your posts. <p>Please note that this is not a substitution for your getting proper support via professional help. <p>L.

Phil, you asked for advice, I'm givin' it...<p>Do NOT marry this woman right away!! She wants to take you from your family, and hers. She's 25 and has had 5 babies so far? 2 of them abandoned in Texas because they needed space for their families? Why is she afraid to call her children??<p>Your note just made massive alarms go off in my head. Why can't she wait to get married? Try reading some of the Harley books, like His Needs, Her Needs and Lovebusters. Make sure that you get a DNA test on the baby, see who is the father. You need to establish a custody agreement NOW, even though you are on good terms. You don't want her to run off with your kids once things get bad. Seems like that is how she has dealt with her issues in the past.<p>Good luck Phil! Happy Birthday to the little guy, today is my son's 3rd birthday [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Dear Phil.
You say your wife was abused sexually and mentally as a child - and she is also still quite young - having 5 children before age 24 is an indication of her problems - unable to set boundaries - unable to say no - unable to tell what is right from wrong, good or bad - because when she was a child, all her boundaries were violated. This woman will have deep and difficult problems for many years and the sooner she starts professional counselling as an adult survivor of child abuse, the better for her, all her children and anyone who cares about her - although going to church and getting some joint counselling is a step in the right direction, I don't think this will be enough to help her.<p>It would be good if you can try to get her to make a commitment to the right kind of individual counselling. There's a member on this board called ThornedRose, a survivor of child abuse, whose posts have been very helpful to some others here, who are married to abuse survivors and having similar problems - you could try looking up her posts using the Search function, and look in GQII - I think she posts in some of the other forums, too. <p>Hope you have managed to get some sleep today.<p>Take care,
Odile

I am very thankfull of the support everyone has kindly givin me these past couple of difficult days. Here is some good news that took me some time to think about and made possible. But could not do it without your support. <p>Yesturday during my sons birthday, we went to Elich Gardens. My ExGirlfriend went also which was very hard. trying to have fun but having to pay for the devils food and drink, and knowing that everything she tells me means nothing and try to keep a happy face for your kids at the same time. A few hours into the day I swallowed all the confusion and anger and made a disission. <p>We have come to this agreement. She is going to call my lawer on Monday and have him write a motion for giving me full rights to my kids. Too agree on a dna test for the baby. To agree to at least 1 year of marriage counseling and individual counseling. She would like to see the kids for 2 days a week that agreed too. We are going to be friends and friends to are kids 100% positive love towards the kids. The man friend in her life will be told that right now there are important events that she must deal with and he is not needed to be there unless DNA proves different. She and I agree to give 100% to our friendship - 100% to our kids - 100% to counseling. Hopefully this will show the kids that we can work something out without fighting and yelling. And she ended that she is going to give her 100% to trying to survive the next year and give our family a chance to become healthy and loving. I will see Monday and hopefully everything will happen and I have faith it will.<p>I am at my point of clarity. Had a good night sleep for the first time in weeks. I'm going to have a nice day with my boys. I will return tonight..<p>
Thank you everyone.<p>Philip

Hi Phil,
U sound better. Now pay attention to her actions not just her promises. <p>I have contacted 1 of the guys who has a situation similar to yours. He will be available later this week. He says you can call him so when you are ready, let us know and someone will get in contact with him. <p>take care,
L.

hi guys.. Orchid that would be great if I could talk to someone thats been through the same. I just found out that her honesty was'nt as honest at all.. What she wanted to do with court was true but she does not want to leave this guy. I thought she still wanted to work somewhat on the family but she was just fooling with my head to get something rather than nothing. I feel very hurt but I knew it was to easy.I don't know how to pick myself up and push towards the future. I don't know if I should continue with the court and give her 2 days a week of visitation or just let it ride and take her in court. She wants to be friends but I can't be friends with someone who betrade me. I have clarity but its getting fogged up again. I don't have the money to get therapy because I have my two boys and it's hard already. ugh. Why does she have to be so evil.<p>philip

Hi Phil, <p>You are asking questions that have not logical answers. Why? BEcause in the 'fog' their logic is distorted. Husbands and wives will leave each other, often even abandoning their children. <p>One 37 year old mother (not on MB) left her family which consisted of her H (32) and 3 children (7 boy, 4 girl, 2 boy). Y? Because she wanted to play. Literally. Her H said she wanted to do exciting sports. Well her last episode took her life. She tried to ride a motorcylce on her own and died in the process. They were already separated and now this young father is left raising all those children by himself. <p>The point here is to show the illogical mentality. That is why it is futile to try and reason with them, teach them anything or help them. We just have to strengthen ourselves and those we can help. Sometimes, it takes a lot before they turn around and a few don't ever turn around. <p>I do not say this to depress you just to help you see that trying to understand her thinking pattern will give you a headache. I know you feel you must try but eventually you will understand. <p>ARe you willing to post your e-mail addy? If yes, I can notify the other MBer. If not, he might be able to come and post in a few days. <p>take care,
L.