My wife suggested I have a look here, so here I am.I have to assume she will be reading everything I say but at this stage it doesnt matter. After 3+ years of unhappiness I met an older woman with whom I got on very well. We have kissed and hugged but nothing further. I have never met her outside of work and hope we were careful enough not to be seen by anyone else. My wife found out by reading my text messages and looking through my brief case. The main problem I have is that I confronted her with the fact that I am no longer in love with her and want to seperate. However we have two boys that mean the world to me. We are in the difficult situation where my wife has no support here(all her family are 10 000miles away and not in a safe place for the boys)and she does not wantto stay here. I had agreed to end my affair until this morning when my wife asked me to be faithful to her. We are still under the same roof and all discussions are calm. I need to feel loved and appreciated and so does she, and now for the first time I am contemplating a life with a wife I do not love. Any ideas?

You can have love in your marriage with your current wife! It is possible! Read the Basic Concepts on this site from beginning to end. That should give you some idea of how to start the journey to get there. Then ask for more help with specific issues

deep,
"I had agreed to end my affair until this morning when my wife asked me to be faithful to her"
HUH????????
If you didnt make the right choice you CAN make the choice right! and be happy too!

As difficult as it may seem, my main question here is "do you want the relationship with your wife to be better?" You mention "hoping" no one else saw you and the other together...if you are that unhappy why hide it? I see the hiding as a form of you not wanting your wife to feel the pain of knowing. If you don't want her to feel that pain then maybe you should really recognize that hurting her is not what you want to do. I have to ask WHY? Why, because I have been through the same. I also have to ask, do you say just hug and kiss because your wife may read? Where is the honesty? For all my husband has done to me, the lies, the going and coming, the confusion of me or her....for the game he played with my emotions. How can a person you have been with for 3 years suddenly not be what you want anymore. It's hard work and it's committment...committment to doing what is right for you, your wife and your family. You were once happy, take the time to find that happiness again with your wife and family. Stop getting your other needs met by the other person and allow your wife and kids to fill those voids. She did it once before...but she can't read your mind and you have to communicate. Good luck...it's a long road back if you decide to stay with your wife. But speaking from experience, it is a new road for the whole family and it can be a happy road or a road to further problems....only you make that choice.

Hi, initdeep,<p>I am quite new here myself so I am not a legit source of advice.<p>But I am intrigued by your post as you sound a lot like my H. <p>You said you were "unhappy" for 3+ years and now you found happiness. Yet you might consider continuing M.<p>Well my husband of 15 years had a similar revelation about a month ago because he could not stand stress anymore. I am still not sure if he ever loved me or if was unhappy or just was not happy.<p>Now first of all I appreciated him for actually telling me rather than waiting for me to find out.<p>I told him that although I'd love to be with him I can understand why he was in need of happiness, I can not order him to stay or to leave; that I can only act upon myself. So he needs to decide; I'll wait.<p>See I love him so I do not want him to lead an unhappy life because he deserves better.<p>That is why I did not demand any action from him.
Instead I am working oin things that rightfully are in my control.
What I am doing now is Plan A as referred to here, fixing myself so I can possibly offer future not just maintaining a bad union.<p>It is very painful.<p>First because I need feedback so I can correct/direct my actions to right places. Yet conversations are rare and difficult.<p>Second because his contact with OW hurts me a lot, even though I imagine myself not wanting/being able to voluntarily stop it ( for sake of what???)<p>Third, because we also have two kids and we need to protect them. I know firsthand the price of even so called "friendly" divorce on a child.<p>Fourth, because I was not truly happy either for most of our marriage. I am still very confused about this, but I did feel loved and in love few months ago thanks to just few changes in our communications. Because that I know that you can rekindle your love if the proper actions are taken.<p>So that is what I plan. I have no guarantees he'll choose me, but I know that if he will it will be because he wants to, not because I told him so, his pastor told him so, or counselor told him so. In the meantime I will become a better looking, nicer, more honest and with higher self-esteem person. And I will not be ashamed of what I did.<p>I am sure he is facing difficult decision to make and I do understand it takes time. <p>You are at the same point.<p>I hope you will share your doubts and feelings with your wife. I hope by reading posts and advice from this site whatever you'll do you will try to not to inflict additional pain. I hope you will treasure your children. I wish you your wife will be strong and loving no matter what you choose to do.<p>If you can, please post your views here.
I have very litle input from my own H. So I ma trying the best by trial and error.
I am very bad at conversation so I hope you can offer some guidance what annoys you the most, what behavior shoud I avoid, what talks should be avoided. So I can improve myself and my communications better and faster for my H.<p>I am not judging you. I know there is more than one side to the affair.<p>Forbetterorworse

Oops. Posted twice...<p>[ June 19, 2002: Message edited by: forbetterorworse ]</p>

Forbetterorworse.<p>Thanks you very much for reading and posting a reply. I can tell you that our problems started when we were having difficulty conceiving our first child. It became and obsession for my wife and as soon as he was born she changed drastically. I married a very attractive, intelligent career woman. She was always very proud of her appearance and to tell the truth so was I. I would take her out as often as possible to &#8220;show off&#8221;(childish I know) and we were very happy. Once our son was born, she got postnatal depression, which I did not recognise and things just got worse. She put on weight and lost all pride in herself. I tried to do something about it; I would go home and do the housework etc. I would say I was not hungry in order to stop her from eating but it didn&#8217;t work and the worse it got the more I withdrew. So that is the start of the problem for me. 3+ years later, an attractive, driven woman pops up and we talk a bit. I find myself telling her all the details and she is telling me hers. Meeting was very difficult as we both travel a lot during the day so I would only see her once or twice a month, but we would text each other. Mostly mundane stuff, what was for dinner, plans for the weekend etc, until we started to add I love you, to the end of the messages. In January this year I approached my wife and told her I was extremely unhappy and didn&#8217;t know if I was in love any more. She took this on board and made drastic changes to her life. At first I was worried that the effort would fade, but it didn&#8217;t. However I did not give up my affair but I did tell the OW exactly what was happening. A few kisses and some hugs later, my wife looked on my phone and read the texts. I lied and said we were just friends. This was two weeks after our second child was born. At first my wife believed me but then she looked in my brief case and found a card written to me the day after I told the OW that all was working out at home. Needless to say things got worse as there was mention of the hugs and kisses, but she did not throw me out. On Tuesday this week I wrote her a letter. I went home and said that I wanted to leave, not for the other woman (that has died a natural death as we cant communicate any more) but because I was so unhappy. I dread going home, sometimes I sit in the car for half an hour before going in. I leave for work early just so I am away from her. She has made no demands, and the only reason I haven&#8217;t left is that I worry about her and the boys. She has not worked for four years and as I said earlier she has no family support. I believe that the boys need their father and I don&#8217;t want to miss out on a thing where they are concerned. Today: she is making a real effort, she says she still loves me. I am still there so I think there is hope. I don&#8217;t think I have any love for her but I am trying to do something. I hope you can get something from my ramblings, I am learning from yours.<p>With thanks

Initdeep,<p>I will post more later since now I have to leave for work.<p>I have to tell you though that to me it looks like you have a good basis to give your marriage a try.<p>First, you both are able to communicate in a calm way.<p>Second, you both are aware of resources available on this site. I know I can use some practical advise and skills.<p>Third, your wife already by her changes let you know that she cares and will work hard toward making both of you fulfilled in your relationship. Let me tell you- she's hurt, afraid, lonely, worried about your boys, and probably feels guilty that she was not able to meet your EN which drove you into an A.<p>Fourth, you say your affair has died. Well, I would not bet on it according to some other people posts, but at least you know that you are in the withdrawal phase. So it will take time for your wife to build up her LB$.<p>And fifth, you are aware what was missing in M, your words:<p>I need to feel loved and appreciated and so does she, and now for the first time I am contemplating a life with a wife I do not love.<p>I bet when Plan A will show results on your's wife behavior and looks ( BTW, have you ever asked her about her feelings about motherhood/carreer/body changes), you will start falling in love with her again. And think, her engaging in difficult Plan A does show love and appreciation for you, doesn't it. So maybe contemplate to invest some time in cooperating with your wife's efforts, couples who were successful rave here about how much better their unions are now.<p>I wish you both patience and good communication,<p>FBOW
PS. Thank you for sharing your story.

Initdeep,
Now is my turn.
Aside from 3 years of dating, my marriage was lacking affection. I mean everyday affection, because my H always remembered birthdays and holidays, but rarely hugged me or said the L word.
At first I thought that this is the way he is, bc otherwise he is very caring and reliable person, towards me and kids as well.
Anyway, about one year into our marriage our communication worsened, I could sense something was wrong but he did not respond. I tried and tried asking, writing letters, he seemed totally disinterested in any discussion at all. Anyway I did something stupid - I snooped around, found a letter of him expressing love to another woman, got hysterical, really depressed, shared the story with the wisest person I knew- BAD judgement on my side- anyway - this person acted somehow -without much talking he stayed with me and I apologized for snooping around ( it really made me feel awful).
But the outcome was that he- I think he completely lost trust in me and also stopped sharing his emotions, and me being so badly hurt and disillusioned I started to protect myself by lowering my expectations, blaming myself for most things, basically isolating myself so I would not be hurt again no matter what. Also I stopped having any personal conversations with my family and friends.
I was not very happy but as I say he sure was taking good care of us, we had another child, and his occasional gestures combined with his general hard work made me feel that may be I am unrealistic in what marriage is. Either this or I was a complete failure. He was very critical of me, I tried to be better and better but slowly started giving up in many areas. Like cooking. Or my apperance. My self esteem was low. I tried to gain "points" by taking care of everyday little things, fixing faucets, oil changes etc. I craved admiration. God gave me brains but not looks.
Unlike your wife I was never slim or particularly good looking. We moved overseas, his career was doing well, I was taking care of two young kids, could not legally work. I wanted to work to alleviate his financial burden on beginning new life in a new country - we really had to be very frugal. Well after few years I finally started working. I do have a relatively well paying job now which makes me proud and secure( you know, language barrier, my degree does not really count here).
We bought our first home 3 years ago. Made me feel elated. I felt we deserved our own place because of his hard work for 12 years. I was so happy then and I think so was he. This home is still my great pride and joy. Our kids are wonderful - smart, kind, polite, doing excellent at school.<p>I can't say I was unhappy, but surely I wished he would appreciate my efforts in any field now and then, not just raise the bar and putting me down so often. I guess it made me bitter, unpleasant and impatient, our conversations were rare and demanding and angry. His job required him to travel often, I had to go back for over a year due to health issues, despite this separations we were in sort of OK routine. We had (at least from my side) our share of good moments, happy trips, amazing vacations.
We seemed to do better than in the beginning of our marriage.<p>Well he found a soulmate on the Internet around last December I think.
She really influenced him well in that he opened up a bit and was really nice and loving and affectionate like never before. His behaviour totally melted my isolation wall and I shared with him how good and happy I felt, and that I felt bad that I was envious about this OW since our communications got better thanks to her. He assured me I had nothing to worry about....
I understood that I was never a good conversation partner to him so I decided since I do not mind him looking at pretty long legged models since I can't provide - why mind his chatting and emails?
Well I guess he was suprised too but he fell in love, I think initially EA and now I am pretty sure PA as well.
I must have been acting like a nut (clingy, crying, sleepless) for three months when I started feeling him getting distant again, me- without my protective wall - trying to express my feeling of loss, worries, loosing before my eyes this unexpected love feeling resurected after 14 years... I knew I will not snoop around this time for sure.
I guess he was feeling awful too, and he told me about his new feeling toward OW. Not many details and I did not ask, maybe I should.
Anyway this revelation a month ago (a few hours conversation)
- he said that it is possible for him to stay in a loveless marriage but why. I told him he has to decide. I can't force him again against his true will. And that I love him very much. And that he does deserve happiness. And that I felt so happy just recently. And I promised to be calm not hysterical, I assured him I grew up since 14 years ago. Funny thing, he hardly remembered those distant events. He also told me that I should stop blaming myself for everything and that my looks were not bad. And that SF was not a problem of mine.<p>So for the past month he is still thinking, continues contact with OW, lives at home while not on business trips. He is calm but distant,good with kids, we celebrated Mother's Day, anniversary, Father's Day,
everything is normal on the surface ( kids do not know - nor anybody else).
I remain patient and hopeful. It is unbelievably painful though. It took me a while to realize that I cannot control everything. That the power I have is only about me, what I feel towards him, how I feel about myself, how I act.
So I am in Plan A. Loosing weight, cooking dinners, being nice but not overhelming, withstanding loneliness ( I miss warm emails and great sex from just few months ago so much). I have my bad days and nights too. This is when I post here. I still have not talked to anybody in person. I use advice I got her to avoid love busting.<p>I wish he would fill out the EN questionaire or just talk to me more. Or just give me feedback everyday ( I gently asked for it).<p>Well if everything happens for a reason, maybe this experience will make me reach my full potential - I will be my best no matter if we will be together or not.<p>It sounds simple and obvious but it is hard to follow. Emotions and reasoning both exist and one can't depend on one or another exclusively to live life.<p>I am sure his decision must be difficult to make - either way.<p>I think I spotted your wife post too. I wish both of you well and envy your ability to communicate. Resources, questionnaires, honesty, agreements will help you too. You both seem to care for each other even if you are not currently in love. <p>Excuse the long post.
FBOW
more ramblings at First time here<p>FBOW

FBOW
Thank you for your side, it gives me an insight into what my wife must be feeling. You say your husdand is in love with OW. I cannot speak for him but what I can tell you is, I cannot honestly say I am in love with OW. The reason is not because I dont have feelings for her, but more because the intensity of the feeling does not seem right. Does your husband meet with OW, if what he has with her is 99% verbal then he may be like me. Not really in love with someone else just no idea of what is going on in his life. I started talking to the OW because she was fun and my marriage was lacking that. I felt that my wife and I were living like an old couple and I wanted something more. I felt a tied down and may be he does too. My wife has given me space and now I feel that the decision I make will not be made in haste and therefore the best decision under the circumstances. Does your husdand read the info on this site, he may not be conversing with you directly but if he can guage your feelings and needs from here it may be a good place to start. It has helped me just but putting down what I feel.
Good luck.

Congratulations! Your post "I'm the naughty one"
has set my hair on end. (That's pretty darn good cause I've been here on and off for a while)<p>Immature!!!!! My god, how can you use the word "naughty" to describe your actions? You wee not naughty, naughty is what a young child who knows no better does.<p>I am assuming you are a man? Full grown possibly? If that's the case the first thing you have to do is accept responsibility for the damage you have inflicted upon your spouse. Not naughty, horrific!!<p>Take her out and show her off? What is she a piece of prime rib? Good lord, do you know what love is? Seems to me like you have some serious soul searching to do.<p>Naughty, geez Louise!!

Initdeep,<p>Thanks for your comments.<p>Well as I mentioned I gave my H "space". I trusted his assurances about soulmates and "just friends".<p>Now I am not even sure if he lied then and was already in love and lied for convenience or just to spare my feelings, or did the affair really develop unexpectedly and rapidly within the following two months.<p>Also now I think if all this sudden and welcomed affection I got in Dec/Jan was not a fall-out (crumbs?) of him being happy with OW ( I am not exactly sure when they started emails and chat). I asked him several times if he really meant what he said and written to me then was true, he said yes, but it is three monts later now. I guess I operate on totally different time intervals, I can't possibly imagine falling in and out of love so quickly with no significant events ( at least I am not aware of any).<p>Sometimes I hope maybe it is a good sign - he fell in love fast, so maybe the affair will end fast as well.<p>I am also not sure if I should believe that I am sexually adequate for his SN and that sex was not the reason for the affair -as he told me during one of ours recent conversations. What if he still hates my looks and is not telling me this for some reason?<p>I have a lot of self-confidence issues.<p>I enjoyed our SR a lot, and could use it more often, although for a fear of rejection ( and then lowering my self confidence) I rarely initiated it. After D-day I was very mixed up (I wanted S but was unsure to ask, plus since I do not know about the extent of PA, how to approach the subject of STDs? He is my only partner so far. What if I am repulsive to him? And in my state of mind would I actually be able to enjoy the act?)<p>Unlike you, he is sure he is mutually in love with OW and is sure it is not a short-lived feeling (this is what he told me). He does want to spend rest of his life with her. I really do not know why - if he is so sure - he has not left us already. Maybe our children? Or the logistics of moving out miles away? I have no idea if he told her he confessed to me about their affair.<p>Again, I left him space now to decide. It is trying on my trust and patience.<p>I hope he will use this time to really think, not just to enjoy the A in relative peace and no nagging from me or anybody else.<p>See I am human too, with plenty of vices and weaknesses, and I feel my love, trust and strength draining over time, too. There will be a point in time when I will separate myself from him if he is still on the fence, because I will not be able to withstand hurting any longer.
As much as I can understand his lack of fulfillment and thus falling in love, I can't understand why - when I was being honest with my feelings and fears - he went into denial, detachment again and let the A develop full force. Why did he not come forward right away? If he wanted me to let him go it would be so much easier before December, when I was still behind my protective wall and really did not care that much for him as I do now.<p>When you were careful with your meetings with OW, did you do it because you hoped as long as it was secret it could last, or because you were afraid of your wife's reaction? Is it possible to still somehow care about wife's feelings while you know you are hurting her? If it is too personal, don't answer.<p>Regarding MB site, I passed my H some links even before his revelation-day, but he seemed not interested. I don't know if he looked at the site or the posts. I did suggest links and books again recently, I told him I will pass him a link to EN questionnaire and other resources if he will ask for it. I try to avoid pressuring, lecturing, demanding or otherwise making him do things. I limit myself to expressing occasionally in the most calm way what I feel in result of his particular actions, he usually becomes angry and defensive then. <p>I feel lonely and suportless because I have to maintain the fake facade for children, family and friends. Is your wife in similar situation?<p>You are in luck your wife wants to carry on. It is also great that you are sure you loved her at some point. It's good that you listened to her to visit this site. Communicate with her so you can make a plan for future.
Again, best of luck and stamina for both of you.<p>FBOW

"Take her out and show her off? What is she a piece of prime rib? Good lord, do you know what love is? Seems to me like you have some serious soul searching to do."
--------------------------------------------------<p>According to books The EN for an attractive spouse is a legitimate need and this one seems pretty high on his list <p>I to have EN for attractive spouse, and while I love her dearly, quite frankly my sexual desire for her tends to go up and down based in large part on that

I also suffered PND twice, live in a foreign country 5,000 miles from home, we had no family support nearby, so I stayed home to look after the kids, husband worked 7 days a week building career, also "took good care of us" although things were very frugal. I always respected him for this. Now he is involved in his second EA in 18 months. After much pain, we are both in individual counseling and I believe his "special friendship" with OW2 still continues although she is now in foreign country.<p>inindeep - you have to look at what you thought would happen to both of you when you had children. You seem to be only thinking about your own feelings - my wife changed and somehow wasn't the same sexy accomplished woman she was when I married her. Children, and the intense, unbelievably demanding pressure of taking care of ALL - ALL - ALL their physical and emotional needs is TOTALLY exhausting to most women - Do you even begin to understand this? They aren't toys you get for Christmas that you can put away in a box when you're tired. I have seen a lot of posts here where women have suffered PND - and sometimes it's the husbands, and sometimes its the wives who have the affair afterwards. The women out of guilt at "failing" at motherhood and being vulnerable to a man who makes them feel good about themselves, the men, because, like you - suddenly, life just isn't perfect any more.<p>Your marriage doesn't sound loveless to me - your wife has put a great deal of effort into changing to try to meet your needs. She has done this because you are so important to her. But what have you done to try to meet her needs? That's what she should be asking herself. After all that effort, have you done anything to demonstrate that you are really worth it?<p>Saying "I just don't love you any more" is a total cop-out.<p>Odile

Neverhappen:<p>Yes, I am fully aware of the EN's in a marriage. But for example if my need for financial support is not met because my husband only makes l50 grand a year and I can spend 180 he is not doing his part? <p>I am fully aware of all the MB principles. My point is this man is not accepting responsibility for his actions and quite honestly has an attitude that stinks. She is trying, yet he doesn't believe it will last, therefore he continued with the OW. Give me a break. He is the one who has broken the trust, he is the one who should be bending over backward, EPECIALLY if she is doing her part. <p>The need for an attractive spouse is valid. But, can you honestly say that each one of us on this forum has always looked "buff, toned and sexier than he##? Give me a break, illness, childbirth, depression, age (just a few) tend to make subtle changes to our appearance. The need for an attractive spouse (if it is the top need, shows, in my opinion, a very shallow individual without a clue as to what true love is.<p>My opinion, take it for what it is worth. I will say this in closing. I have been on both sides of the "physically attractive" fence. I have been heavy, I have been thin. I have always been me. In other words, weight does not make a person, self esteem, a postive attitude and a beautiful heart make a person. If Mr. Naughy thinks attractiveness is grounds for looking elsewhere, maybe his spouse would be better off without his shallowness.

Please be aware, this is initdeep. I am using my wife&#8217;s computer at home.<p>K9love, thanks for your input, and yes I can see your point about shallow and immature. The only answer I have for you on those fronts is this; beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To me, my wife was very attractive and I was extremely proud to be married to her. I wanted my friends to see (they may have thought she was a dog) and I enjoyed the feeling of being proud. Pride may be wrong according to the Ten Commandments, but I was proud. May be my wife would be better off without me, and as she is an intelligent woman I can only assume that she has considered all the options. But unlike you she feels that I may have some redeeming features.<p>
FBOW, you may be low on self-confidence at the moment but I can assure that no one deserves what your H, or I have done. It cannot be justified. If I wanted another woman I should have spoken to my wife and if it was to happen then we could have separated then. But going behind her back, and lying is just wrong. When I spoke to my wife I also wrote her a letter and in it I tried to put down some of my problems, I believe I am weak, this is because I didn't want to confront her and cause pain. I hid it from her because I did have feelings for her and I knew that it would break her heart. And yes I think you are right, as long as my wife didn&#8217;t know then in my mind it could go on. You may feel support-less and I don&#8217;t know what you can actually get from this site but, keep posting and asking questions. I have felt much better since I started reading and posting here, and I hope you can feel a bit better too.<p>Odile, one thing I can never accuse my wife of is being a bad mother, even when we were at our worst, she was the best our children could ever dream of having. To be perfectly honest, I had no idea how difficult raising children would be. If I and I dare say many others knew just how difficult then we might never have had them. However I now have two and I can never express the feelings I have for them. I would not change them for the world As for what have I done for her, well you will have to ask her that. I have asked why she allowed me to stay when in or earlier discussions, we agreed that any infidelity would be the end. She could only say that she loved me.

I wish my wife had stopped after "just kissing". If you want to save your marriage, you may need to contemplate a career change or change of locale. It would mean a lot to her and where the trust has already been violated, I can guarantee that she's thinking, "He confessed to kissing... I wonder if I press harder or wait long enough, if he'll confess to other things - and where will it stop?"<p>Being overseas is hard on families. I grew up in Japan for 11 years. I'm amazed my parents held it together.

Today I sent the OW a email saying that we were through and I was making a go of it with my wife. The OW has read it and called to ask if it was how I felt, I said it was and I wanted no more contact at all. She was more worried about my W telling her H than anything else. In truth, I almost felt sick saying it was over. I am throwing myself into my work and hoping that this will pass quickly. I went to my first councilling session last Friday and enjoyed the experience. Next one on Tuesday night. I am hoping my wife will go as well, however when we talked about the session I felt she wanted someone to sit there and lay blame. She wants to sit down with a councilor and me and go through the whole thing, and let the councilor say that I am wrong and my expectation of marriage is to high etc. I dont know if you can get this sort of councilling and would be grateful to hear if anyone has tried this and if is is of benefit. Please excuse the rambling, I just needed to say something to anyone out there.

There are lots of different kinds of counsellors. Whatever your beliefs are, it's important to try and find one that works for you. A good one should listen without laying blame.

My WW and I are going to each separately pursue counselling and find a joint marriage counsellor through our church. After our individual sessions, we're going to talk about whatever. I want severe blame laid on my wife, but at the same time I don't. It's one of those things.

You should read more of this website and send a No Contact letter with your wife's review and permission. She doesn't trust you right now, and you shouldn't trust yourself. She's angry and hurt so she isn't going to be rational for a while. I certainly wasn't. The only reason I've lasted this long is because my wife broke off contact totally. Without that, I think I'd be a mess right now.

Do the right thing.

Initdeep, A good MC is not going to sit there and lay blame on any one party. He/she will try to get each person to understand what the other person feels, etc, and try to find some common ground to work with in order to go forward. My FWH and I have done MC and found it to be invaluable to our R. We are communicating better than ever and are intimate in every way like we never have before. And let me tell you, we have had very severe problems that we now are working on. I encourage you to do this with your W.

However, it is recommended that the MC not be the same person that is an IC to either one of you. This sets up a conflict of interest if one of you have told the IC something that is not to be shared with the spouse. Then you have a start that is automatically dishonest for one of the people involved. C