OK, As usual - Roll Me Away is LONG WINDED:<P>Here's the story. H calls from the airport to let me know his plane arrived and wants to know what is it I want to talk to him about tonight? I said I just wanted the pleasure of his company and if that's Ok with him we can still go out. He says ok and hangs up.<P>H arrives at house and I fix a couple drinks for him and we sit and talk like old times - It was fun and easy and just seemed natural. After 1 1/2 hrs., he said let's go to his favorite mexican restaurant. We go in separate cars because the restaurant is close to where he is currntly living with his guy friend.<P>We stayed at the restaurant 1 1/2 hrs. We ate and talked about nothing in particular and enjoyed each other's company. He kept asking me what do I want to talk about? So finally I asked him if we would see him any for the holidays. He said not much. Then I asked him if I could borrow the minivan to drive to LA this weekend to spend the weekend with my Dad and have Christmas with my Dad and my family. He says OK but we need to switch cars tomorrow because he is going to FL on Wed <P>I reminded him he was invited to LA and could go with me. He then proceeded to give me his schedule for holidays from this Wed through 12/28 - with the OW most of that time. She will come to Atlanta and spend Christmas eve and Christmas and a few days after with H and his friend. YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!<P>I told him we were having dinner on Christmas night and opening gifts then. We usually open gifts on Christmas eve, so he asked why not on Christmas eve??? I said the only time I could get all the kids and grandkids together is on Christmas night and he was invited, but him alone. He said, well I just told you about all that stuff I am doing with the OW so what about that?<P>I said, well, I didn't want to talk about this tonight, but you are driving the conversation so.... I still love you and am hopeful that we could get back together and have a happy life together. <P>MOMENT OF TRUTH - HE FINALLY TOLD ME WHY HE LEFT: Desiree, even my Mom told you this about me - I never forgive or forget and I can't accept that during your EA I was not number 1 in your life. It doesn't matter what you did or didn't do (sex with OM - I didn't do) it is the idea that I was no longer number 1 and I can not accept that.<P>I started to cry and said I was eternally sorry for that, but alot of what he interpreted as the time in the EA - I look back now and think was clinical depression about my Dad's stroke. That was a large part of my failure to focus on our marriage. My Dad went from being robust and active to paralyzed and his mind is childlike. It was debilitating to me to go from being a child to my parent to being a parent to my parent, if you know what I mean. No excuse for what I did - just explaining how I felt.<P>I told H I could never take that EA away although I was eternally sorry. I asked him if he knew how much I loved him and asked him to look me in the eye when he answered and he said yes. He also said he knew I would and could forgive him his current affair. But for him, the EA I had was unforgivable. Also told me he had been reading here on MB's forum. I asked if he had seen my posts, because i had given him my user name and he said no, not my posts in particular, but had read some here.<P>I said, H, I know you have a hard heart and I have been praying to the Holy Spirit to unharden your heart. But, I also know this, H. You have a heart of gold behind a wall of steel, and in time you do forgive everyone who has hurt you, but only in your time. I know that eventually you will forgive me and I love you enough to wait for that. <P>I then asked him to do a counsleing session with Steve Harley - as a favor to me - to do ONE session with Steve. I told him it was an invitation and he did not have to do it if he didn't want to. He asked me about that and I told him I had done 2 sessions with Steve. <BR>I told him I also wanted him to know that the door was open for him to come home, and that Steve told me to call him and to invite him to dinner, and that I had really been wanting to do it anyway.<BR> <BR>He then looked at me and asked me what to do about OW? I said that I know he is still in love with me and that this relationship with her is problematic - he has a problem in that he has to resolve the feelings for one of us, but I know we can be happy again if he would ever forgive me. I told him to prove my commitment, I would leave my job immediately (OM is there)and be willing to move and relocate outside the state and start over somewhere else if he would like. H said if I had never had the EA we would still be going strong. <P>GUILT, GUILT, GUILT, GUILT and MORE GUILT on my part.......... <P>Then we talked about other stuff. At the end of the dinner he asked me again about Steve. I told him you call up and talk to him and it is $85 per session. I said, don't give me an answer tonight. Think about it. He asked if he would see me tomorrow and I said yes I am on vacation tomorrow. I told him if he wanted to talk about Steve tomorrow, to bring it up and if he needed more time to think about it I would not bring it up tomorrow. He said that sounded good.<P>We walked out to the car and he kissed me a bunch of times and got in his van and blew me a kiss and drove off.........<P>Guys, I am HOPEFUL!!!!!!!!!! <P>Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

RMA -- You did <B>wonderfully!!!</B> It sounds like you may have put a small crack in that steel plate around his heart. What fortitude you have!! You rolled out the red carpet and then didn't watch to see if he walked on it.<P>I'm so impressed, I don't know what to say!! Way to go!! You really covered some great stuff and a lot of issues without even one LB'er. I could never do that. It seems you have every reason to be hopeful....<P>Lots of hugs and support from me to you. Man, this is great!!!!<P>--DeWayne--

Desiree ... Wow! This sounds wonderful! It's great that he was able to be so open about what changed his feelings.<P>Two things: 1) DON'T let him turn this into "my affair is because of what YOU did." If it is connected, it is because of HIS inability to get over it. Yes, you hurt him. Yes, you were wrong. But you were and continue to be remorseful, and you are absolutely right that you cannot change the past. It's up to him now. 2) Remember the key: BABY STEPS! This is a pretty big one, but don't get too anxious for it all to happen tomorrow ... take heart in the small steps that he makes and keep an iron grip on your patience.<P>My prayers are with you ... <P>------------------<BR>terri<BR>I believe in miracles...<P><BR>

You did do GREAT...<P>Re: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>H said if I had never had the EA we would still be going strong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If I may be so bold, I say BS!! Affairs are symptoms of the problems in marriage, not the problems themselves. No fair!!<P>Other than that, I think you pierced that armor of his... <P>Good job!<BR> <BR>

RMA,<P>Extra rug burns on the knees prayers for you tonight.<P>From what you said I see a tiny bit of willingness. He didn't object to talking to Steve H.. He enjoyed your company. And he showed you some affection. And I didn't see any LBs from you.<P>Why is it that your H and my W have to hide behind that steele curtain? Breaking through that wall is our biggest challenge. We know they love us, yet they refuse to allow themselves any vulnerability. We both know we never want to hurt them again. They know we never want to hurt them again, why can't they surrender to thier feelings?<P>It does sound like he's close keep your expectations low and acceptance high.<P>PLAN-A, PLAN-A, PLAN-A!!!!!<BR>Lots of PLAN-P!!!<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR>BB<BR>

DeWayne,<P>Thanks for the SUPPORT!!!! Yes, I did good. I have prayed so much to do and say the right things here. I prayed to God for HIS will to be done, but still I told God I was going to ask for what I wanted (my H to be receptive tonight) and said, God, you can tell me no if you want to but I am still asking.<P>Terri,<P>Yes, the affair is HIS doing. He knows that, terri. But, I also know not to expect too much just yet. He will definitely honor his commitment to the OW through 12/28 for sure. He is that kind of person. I just want himto call Steve and to TRY. I know my H...if he ever decides he is willing to forgivr me and get over this EA, he will just do it and it will be over in a snap. Same thing abou the OW - if he decides he wantsoutof that relationship, he will just harden his heart against her. That is how he is.<P>I know this man's faults as well as well as I know my own and I love him DESPITE his faults. After all isn't that what love is - to look at the entire person and love the entire person - the good and the bad??? <P>I agree, terri and DeWayne, there is a crack here. It might take awhile for him to come around, but I am seeing some light here.....I do need to remember baby steps and keep the faith and the PATIENCE!<P>Please all, keep praying for me. I have been praying for all of us...mentioning each and eveyone by name in my prayers.<P>I could not even be here today without the support of each of you!!!!! <P>If you haven't done so - CALL STEVE HARLEY! I would never have called my H and invited him out if Steve hadn't told me to do it!!!!!!! <P>Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Hey Desiree,<P>Most impressive. YOU GO GIRL! No LB's. Plan A all the way. Must have been tough hearing the plans with the OW. Sorry about that. You did absolutely great!<P>I got a big hug and a few kisses today too. "I love you" never sounded so good coming from Val before. Just a few tears. Things are looking up for us.<P>Sent you E-mail about an hour ago. Wondered how things were going.<P>Wishing us all the Best...we deserve it!<P>Medic

Sheryl,<P>Yes, the affair is a symptom. For him, the symptom was that I was not paying alot of attention to him, was mentally precocupied and emotionally withdrawn so his interpretation: Desiree doesn't love me anymore.<P>Well, I DID have the EA - can't deny that. But, I do think I was sufferig osme depression there to and did not realize it. Point is, H is responible for what he is doing now and I am responsible for what I did then, and we are nboth having to live with the consequences of our actions......... <P>Yes, I do think a tiny crack has started....His armor is made of TITANIUM!!!<P>WilliamJ,<P>My H has a fear of rejection - due to something in his childhood. That is why he is so hard-heartedagianst anyone he thinks has done him wrong. But, my H is also loving and loyal....what a contradiction of feelings!<P>I am hoping these good times you and your W have shared lately will bring some sense into her. I am hoping the OB's family really treats her alot worse than you are expecting them to do. Continuing to pray for you, too...<P>Medic,<P>I got your e-mail and already replied. Sounds like you and Val have lots planned this week. You old snake charmer, you! <P>Somehow, I see you coming out of this with everything you want, Medic - you will plan and scheme until you get the brass ring! Nothing wrong with that - it is admirable!<P>No, was not fun to hear about the plans with the oW, but I had already suspected they had plans because he still hadn't mentioned Christmas yet....Oh well.....<P>I din't expect him to fall on his knees and beg to come home....I accomplished my objectives - I prayed to God to make H receptive tonight and he was, so for that I am happy. I don't want my H to come home again unless he is really commited. Remember, he tried that once - coming home and thinking he could still speak to the OW for HOURS everyday and work on us????? NOT.....He only lasted 2 1/2 weeks at home before moving out again. I would rahter wait a while longer and let him decide he is more commited than have him rush home and "fail" again.<P>Yes, we do ALL deserve the BEST!!!!!!<P>Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

How wonderful for you! I think you did get through to him a bit. Just the fact that he asked if he could see you tomorrow and asked about talking to Steve Harley is so positive. There is power in prayer! I will be praying for you. Best of luck to you and stay positive.

RMA,<BR>Sounds liek great news to me !!<BR>I gotta get to bed though!<BR>I'll keep you in my prayers!<P>Bob<P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

Hey RMA,<P>I think we BOTH might get what we want out of life. <P>I don't like to lose. Some people think I'm pushy and arogant. They don't know me very well. I can also be very obnoxious. I'm sure that comes as a complete suprise to you all. Yes, but, it's true. They really don't know me. <P>Meeting Val and marrying her is the absolute best thing that could have ever happened to me. I truely love her more every day! Today was fabulous. There was no lying or deceit anymore. I could see the hurt in her beautiful blue eyes as well as the love she still has for me. We hugged for the longest time. She felt great to be next to.<P>I not only want the brass ring. I want the gold ring back on her L hand. Medic is on a mission. Heads up. July 22, 2000 is coming up soon, have to work fast.<P>As Cinderella sings, "Don't know what you got till it's gone."<P>Yeah, I'm sitting here listening to the 16 saddest songs that were ever written. It's OK though, my spirits have never been higher.<P> <P>------------------<BR>"It's not over till we say it's over! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? H*ll no!" Blutto...Animal House 1984<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic<P>

Desiree,<P>God is with you now... <BR>I am hopeful too... but always be guarded!<BR>More Prayers for more good things... <P>Sorry I haven't been posting or replying as much as in the past... alot on my plate right now!<P>Jim <BR>

RMA-<P>Atta girl!!!! You did fantastic. I am very proud of you.<BR>Listening to the OW stuff and no LBing.<BR>Just take it as it comes. <BR>I am so happy for you.<P>God Bless.<P>Cheryl

RMA, great to hear the progress you made on your date.<P>It is sad to hear of all the plans he has with the OW over the holidays but I guess would be expected as you were basically in Plan B up until now.<P>Perhaps if you can get him involved with counseling with Steve H this could be the start of the long road to recovery.<P>The issue of the EA being the cause of where you are at now is a furphy as Terri says. It is the old adage that two wrongs don't make a right. As you are aware I am struggling with the same issue on this one and am also being made to feel the guilt of our current situation over something I did 2-1/2 years ago. <P>You have broken the ice well with no LBs, keep up the good work.<P>regards<BR>Fairenough<P>

Oh, Desiree, How wonderful!!!<P>I am so happy for you. You couldn't have asked it to go any better than it went.<P>I agree, there's a crack there, and you did such a good job finding it!<P>Keep it up, Hon. You've found a way.<P>Lori

Alcoholics wife,<P>Yes, I do believe in the power of prayer. I am positive here....I did not sleep well - kept running this through my head all night....<P>I feel positive because he went out with me, he kept driving the conversation to "what do you want to talk bout - there must be something you want to talk to me about", he finally came clean to me about why he is having this affair, he listened to me without getting defensive or angry, he asked questions about counseling with Steve, he DIDN'T so NO.....yes, I am positive and hopeful....Thanks for your prayers! <P>Bob,<P>With all the stuff going on with you right now, I REALLY appreciate you taking the time to pray for me, too. Thinking the good thoughts of you!!!!!<P>Medic,<P>Naw....I CAN'T believe it.....YOU obnoxious??????? Seriously, one thing I can tell is this -I'll bet Val brings out the very best in old MEDIC! Somehow she can tap into the persona that you, left on your own, would leave hidden to the world. Marriages have a way of putting together people who complement each other's personality and temperament....<P>Thanks for keeping us all in brighter spirits, Medic...you REALLY do!! <P>Jim,<P>Hows the Christmas shopping going??? Know that you dO have a lot on your plate right now....been pretty busy myself at both home and work (budgets!). Good advice, as usual, from my friend - be positive and be guarded. I have had my hopes crushed down so many times before....but, more from my own unrealistic expectations than anything else. Actually, some of my chnage in attitude is directly attributable to you, Jim. Youalways seem to post the right thig - to me or someone else - and I can see the wisdom and feel the uplifting of my spirit. Hope you have a better week, my friend!<P>ceecee,<P>I amazed myself on listening to all his holiday plans with the OW and not LBing! I guess this is the power of my prayers. I have been praying for so many things, but one of them was to do and say the right things last night. Do keep me in your thoughts and prayers....<P>I wonder if God ever says, "Oh no, it's HER again"........?<P>Fairenough,<P>How are you today??? Yes, you are right - the EA will haunt the both of us forever, won't it?? Of course, it is not an excuse and he can't rationally use it as an excuse for his current affair.<P>BUT, of course it did impact his decisions and choices, so in a way, it is germaine. If only I could undo it all, but of course, I can not. All this pain and misery we are all suffering....I think life is too precious for this waste. Love and happiness suit me a lot better than pain and misery....<P>So, when are you moving to the East Coast???? Waiting for the next chapeter in your saga....<P>Thanks for the well-wishes!<P>Lori,<P>MOMMA - As ALWAYS - I new you would post some thing supportive! THANKS!!!!!! My candle is already going for us all....!<P>Desiree<P><P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Hi Desiree,<P>Glad to hear the good news. I think your H and mine were cast from the same mold. I always thought my H was the 'father of all grudge holders', but it sounds like your H vies for that title, too. Just like yours, my H has a terrible fear of rejection, & is VERY insecure. That's why he was such an easy target for that evil OW.<P>Anyway, this forgiveness thing is going to be very tough. I worry about the same thing, but in my case, my H is going to have to forgive himself. I guess, your case too, now that I think about it. He's going to have to forgive you as well as himself. My H has already told me on a couple of occasions that he doesn't think he will be able to forgive himself. This REALLY bothers me because it will be a BIG obstacle to recovery.<P>But, sometimes I wonder, if this isn't part of God's plan? You know, a way of making them come to terms with the concept of forgiveness?? I just don't know anymore.<P>I probably haven't helped you one little bit. But, at least you know, you are not alone.<P>My prayers, and thoughts are with you.<BR>

sidney,<P>Thanks for the support. I can't believe that your H is also so hard-hearted. It is hard for me to understand because I am the forgiving type. <P>There might be something there about the forgiveness thing. Interesting point about the fact that this may be God's way to change their attitudes about forgiveness. For sure, my H could soften his heart about forgiveness. I continue to pray that he does.....<P>Desiree <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>

Glad I found you, Desiree!<P>Way to go! He showed up, that is saying A LOT right there1 I am so happy for you! You see to have done very well. Not a lot of expectations, no love busters! GO GIRL!<P>Also, I do agree ith most here that your H is still punishing you for your EA. Please do not allow him to do this! Just tell him once and for all..."Ia m sorry, we had our problems, and I did somethign foolish...I am here to work on OUR marriage, but I will not allow you to hurt me with this anymore. PERIOD". <P>I will be thinking of you tonight. Good for you! Keep up the GREAT work. <P>(((((DESIREE))))))<P>------------------<BR>You will be stronger because of this.<P>

Sakky,<P>How can I get my H to stop punishing me??? I know that he is.<P>A few months back I told him as far as I was concerned - the slate was wiped clean and we were even about these affiars. I hoped he felt the same way, but obviously he does not.<P>He THOUGHT I was in a physical affair for 18 months!!!!!! I almost DROPPED DEAD when he told me that!!!!!! I even think that he wonders if I have lied about the emotional vs. physical thing, too. I would never be so STUPID as to lie about that! It never was physical.<P>I always accounted to my H for my time. I would call and let him know hwen I was leaving work and stopping at the healthclub and then going to karate and home by x time. Bothof htese places are very near our house and EASY for him to check on me to see if I was ever lying. Also, we used to call each other several times a day to say Hi.<P>I wonder WHEN I could have been doing anything else???????<P>Any ideas on how to better reach out to him to let his go and forgive me???????????<P>Desiree<P> <P>------------------<BR>"Life is made up, not of great sacrifices or duties, but of little things in which smiles and kindnesses and small obligations, given habitually, are what win and preserve the heart and secure comfort."<P>Sir Humphry Davy<BR>