Today is my birthday. Happy Birthday to me. WW has been back about 10 days. Reassuring me that she has been 100% honest with me. Reassuring me that it's over. Reassuring me that she choses me.

In joint meeting with our bishop, she told me that she hasn't been honest with me and that there is another lie. I know it's a major LB, but you have no idea how hard it has been to get even this far. NO IDEA. Some of you might... but every situation is different.

I have thrown her out of the house and will begin divorce filings tomorrow. I don't even know what the lie was. It was either:
- that she has been in contact with him since she SWORE she isn't and hasn't on a daily basis
- that they did have intercourse on top of the all the oral sex
- that there was another A or that it has lasted longer than originally indicated.

Calling OM's wife now.

Okay... calling the OM's wife was a BIG MISTAKE. But, I think I handled it pretty well and at least it confirmed the No Contact thing. I asked if she wanted to compare notes... she didn't. She presented her side of the story which is what her husband, the OM, told her: that he never loved me WW, that it was a mistake, it's over.

Great.

I am sorry for the pain you are going through, and yes, it is hard not to LB when in the face of more lies.

Mistakes, we all make them, especially in the early days. This is because of the intensity of the hurt, the disbelief that someone we thought we knew could be so untrustworthy.

I venture to say, however, that in telling you that there was another lie, your wife was actually trying to move ahead on the road to recovery...get some more of the story out, try to deal with it and move ahead. Well, this is just my opinion, but it does seem to be the way that WS's do things, if you read around the boards. They give you a bit of the story at a time, which begins the horrible grief for you as if it is day one all over again.

I wonder if you can actually approach her somehow and discuss the latest lies, and try to get her to tell the full and unabridged story to you now...given that she has now seen what hurt it causes to withhold information from you. If she actually does want to reconcile, I think that she might come clean.

Then, when you hear it all, you are in more of a position to judge whether you can get past this. You need the facts before you can make a sound decision, don't you think?

Please try to remember that what she is doing and saying is very common, and if you read up on the WS, you will be more ready as the bombs continue to fall. There IS a classic pattern to all of this, so I found knowing he would probably lie, probably withhold information, probably not be able to reconcile immediately (if at all - NOT in my case)did help. But it really does help to see what you may be facing, because you can think of what kind of action you may take BEFORE it happens, and be less likely to LB.

Hope I helped.

Love and light,

Jacky

Lyxa,

read up on theJonSmith on plan A/B ... do nothing ...

Nothing rash decision ... come here to vent and seek different views.

Nothing to retaliate ... specially if you "think" ... get the fact first. When you have the fact, have a staight talk w/ WW !. Ask what does this mean ? and look at her eyes and body postures ...

Listen to Jacky, another wise Ausie's chick <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . The reasons WS won't put everything on the table ... -afraid of your reactions, trust have to come both way ... -In the mist of witdrawal, they are soo fog'ed up, they could not recall evrything at once.

Be gentle, listen, listen, listen, do nothing and let her come, do not judge.

-RH-
<strong>Okay... calling the OM's wife was a BIG MISTAKE. But, I think I handled it pretty well and at least it confirmed the No Contact thing. I asked if she wanted to compare notes... she didn't. She presented her side of the story which is what her husband, the OM, told her: that he never loved me WW, that it was a mistake, it's over.

Great.</strong>[/QUOTE]

Dealing with this once has been hard enough. I'm only 29. I don't know how you guys did it. But, 20% of my married life so far has been an ugly lie. Her coming to confession and "working this out" and "doing the right thing" has been premised on her having been 100% completely honest with both me and our ecclesiastical authorities.

A 2nd disclosure casts doubt on the 1st disclosure and begs the question... how many more disclosures are there going to be? The 2nd disclosure actually wasn't a disclosure at all... it was a huge misunderstanding. She asked me to leave so she could talk to our bishop for 5 minutes. After 15 minutes, I finally tapped and asked how much longer. They said I could come in. I sat down and my wife said, "I'm sorry. I lied to you both. I haven't been completely honest." That was all she needed to say to drop me right back to D-Day. I left. She was lying about being ready for me to come in again, not about the extent of her confession. So there was no 2nd disclosure, but it sure sounded, felt, and looked like one.

That I LB'd in a major way is utterly my own fault. I need to work on that. We've separated again but are in the same area, just not together in our defiled house full of tender memories about HIM. Through all of this, I wonder if she isn't trying to tell me something.
- Her words are I love you, I'm sorry, This will never happen again, I want to rebuild.
- Her actions are: I'm ready to leave at a moment's notice, I don't trust you (why? what the hell have I done?), I still love him, and for the life of me her actions say THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE BUT I AM DISTRACTING YOU FROM THIS OTHER THING WITH THE WORDS SAY AND THE ACTIONS I AM TAKING.
- What is this other thing? Either I'm paranoid and irrational (her favorite headgame since Day 1 of her A) or it's a 2nd disclosure.

Yesterday made it abundantly clear that I am not man enough to go through a pathway of lies, repeated disclosures, and a continually altering canvas of lies to rebuild a marriage with this person. So, today I'll be looking for a family practice lawyer for an initial consultation. I don't intend on telling my wife about it; it's for me. If things don't change by the time I have my house in order for a divorce, then I'm going to file for it. It takes a long time to D in Maryland (a pro-marriage state). I suppose Love can change even that.

Lyxa, I feel for your situation. I have had six D-day from my WH since the end of April. Why couldn't he tell me everything at once. In my situation first I think it was denial on his part. secound I was so hurt and angry it was dangerous to tell me more until I could handle it. It could be your initial reaction has made your WW scared to confess the rest. You need to get to a place where you are considerate of her feelings. Do you have the right to be angry and resentful? I would think you were not human if you didn't. It sounds like your ww has more to tell.It also sounds like she wants to tell you. This is a good sign. Being betrayed is about the worst hurt I know. It sound like it has hurt your wife as well.-stephanie smith

Thanks Stephanie for your response. I don't know how you went through 6 D-Days. If we had kids, I might feel differently, or at least feel the need to be stronger and more patient than I am... but we don't have kids, I'm still young, I have my whole life ahead of me.

I want my life full of love, laughter, and good memories... not trash bags of unopened emotional junk that leads to more and more D-Days. After the 2nd, how do you ever trust the 1st... and live knowing that there's probably going to be a 3rd, a 4th, a 5th... <shivers>

If she was 100% honest the first time, good for her. I'll take that honesty as a foundation for a rebuilding of trust. If not, it's just more lies upon more lies.

I posted in your other topic, but this topic furhter makes me angry for your situation. I am almost as inclined as you to walk away from it, especially since there are no children involved (and count your blessings on that, my friend). Fear of the unknown is the worst. You have no idea how many more disclosures are coming or what they entail. You may find your whole marriage was a sham and that would be devastating. If it takes that long to DV in the state of MD, then start the proceedings and work with the situation in the meantime. I personally know a couple here where I live that separated, each moving in with prospective other partners, then came DV Day in court and they decided to drop it and get back together! It happens! So start if you must then make your final decision when and if you absolutely have to. I am one who does not believe in the fairy tale crap of "soul mates" that are to stay together no matter what they put each other through. I don't know who started that BS back in the 70's, but I'm sick of hearing that term. It has put everyone in this quasi-mystical search for the perfect "made in heaven" mate. I think it is time for everyone to get into the reality of this world and be practical. Good luck with your situation.

Lyxa...

I was just starting to accept the first A and ready for the reconcilliation process and asked my H if there was anything else...anything...that might affect the outcome of our efforts...anything that I needed to know......and thats when he dumped number 2 & 3.....I was crushed...how do you regain the trust...how do you believe them...where do you trust and where dont you....are they talking to eachother...notes....thinking....anything...its soo hard.....

If you are going to forgive her....forgive her and rebuild....I believe my H when he says that he hasnt done anything since I found out about #1....I believe him....I still ask every day if there was anything in his day I might want to know about.....and watch for the response....

Do you believe in your heart...not your hurt exposed heart...deep in your heart that your wife loves you.....I mean in the deepest part of your heart...if you think so....then try to work it out....if you try and fail then you will know that you tried...if you fail to try...you will never know....and live with wondering....

What is broke in this relationship, if not repaired, will carry on to your next...fix it now while you can get closure...either way...staying or going....repair it first, then decide.....I promise that it can get better if you can open her up to the whole truth and take it calmly....if you react poorly, of course shes not going to tell you anything else....I confronted H about condoms I found in his car...he started yelling and I broke down immediately....crying....by the end of the conversation...H apologized and said he just wants this over and all the little things are embarrassing to him too and that he wants to move on with our relationship....remember....glimmers.....k.....

PS....my hubby is from Maryland too..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> or <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So sorry for all this renewed pain. However, I have sadly come to the conclusion that a WS never...I repeat...never...tells the whole unvarnished truth in the beginning. Partly it is an honest effort (although misguided) to protect the BS from further pain. It's also a wish of avoiding causing more problems for themselves. And actually, there is also an element of "their truth" against THE truth. The WS almost always does a lot of re-writting of history. They do NOT want to admit to themselves, much less to anyone else all the mistakes they have made, all the pain they have caused those they love.

The fact that your W admitted to lieing is good. It's not an easy decision to make...but she did make it. Maybe it was later then you wished or wanted...but it did happen. I'm not so worried about the LBing as I am about the fear she will now have that her telling the truth will only backfire on her. The one thing about being given honesty is the way we take those painful truths. If we can't handle it...then they won't be coming our way. We as the BS, if we want honesty, must take our pain in our hands and control our immediate reactions to the truth.

Betrayal is so much more then an affair. It's the betrayal of lies, of misdirection, of confusion. The WS thinks of the "affair" as the only betrayal...but the betrayal was made daily, hourly...each decision that was reached to continue; a betrayal. Each action of attention, affection, time, thought for another... separate betrayals. It's very difficult for those who betray to understand the depth of betrayal their actions have taken them. And they have no earthly idea the depths of pain that their betrayal will take us.

But each step they take in the right direction to give honesty, truth, and committment MUST be appreciated and acknowledged. The action does not have to be accepted as right, but it does need to be acknowledged that they are trying. Trying does count. They will NOT always get it right. If fact, often they will get it wrong. No one has a blueprint on how to go about rebuilding an individual marriage. We each try what might work, if this one doesn't, we try another.

Both partners in a marriage, in the stages of rebuilding, make many, many mistakes. We are attempting to do something that we are truly not completely ready to do. It's hard work. We build up, only to realize that we've made a new and different mistake and must tear down and began again.

But...it is worth it. You can have a good marriage. One based on honesty, love, committment and joy.

Good Luck!

married 23 years
Three children
D-day July 2000

Hi Lyxa,

Happy B-Day.... my daughter's birthday was on 6 July.

LNM has some wise words and I hope that you'll take some time to really read that post again...

I know how devistating it is to not get "all" of the information that you desire at one time... But YOU must decide whether or not you want to work on your marriage or whether you want a divorce. Only YOU can decide.

If you really want to work on rebuilding your marriage, you are going to have to start working on yourself first. You have to control your reactions/responses when your W shares hurtful information with you. Filing for divorce and then 'waiting to see what happens' won't send a very positive signal to your W that you truly want to rebuild.... And she most definitely won't feel very comfortable in telling you anything else.

Please don't think that I'm discounting your feelings... as you can see from my signature, I've been where you are and know what you're going through...and yes, it was all in the first 3 years of our marriage...

Try to calm down and not make any major decisions right now... If you want to rebuild your marriage, it can be done... but just remember this... the only person that YOU can change in your marriage is YOU.

Take care,
RIF90

Woah... you guys are laying it on thick and heavy. <grin> Thanks for that. I appreciate it.

Hi Lyxa,

I sure hope you didn't think that I was trying to bust your chops or anything... just wanted to let you know that I've been there done that and got lots of T-shirts to prove it!!!

What you're doing right now isn't easy... I can honestly say that my M is better than I ever thought possible, and we still have a long way to go. It takes both of you to make things work out and from what you told us, it sounds as if your W is taking steps in the right direction. I know that it may not seem like it to you since the pain and hurt are still very fresh... but give it some time (if you are truly wanting to work on your M) and I think that you'll see what a BIG step this is for your W to admit that she has more to tell you.

For me, it took over 10 years until I finally got "the truth"... I say "truth" because I really don't know what the truth is... I'm just taking it one day at a time and learning to trust my wife again by her actions. I don't think that there are many WS that "tell all" when they are first asked... my wife has told me that it took time for her to trust ME and my reactions before she felt comfortable in telling me the details of her A's.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

So, how do you prompt the WW to full disclosure? I so desperately want to believe she was 100% upfront the first time… else why subject herself to our church’s disciplinary actions? And, how long does it usually take for the 2nd disclosure… and the 3rd disclosure, etc. and on and on and so on?

Hi Lyxa,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, how do you prompt the WW to full disclosure? I so desperately want to believe she was 100% upfront the first time&#8230; </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based on my experience (and I'm sure that each situation is a little different...), I found that I really couldn't "make" my wife disclose anything. It took alot of time on my part in learning to react in a positive way to her answers. (No LB, yelling, screaming, disrespectful comments, etc.) Over time, my W learned to trust my responses to her answers and she started opening up. I know that you want to believe that your W was/is up-front with you about everything... but I think that it's a common pattern with WS to withold information that they feel will only hurt their BS...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And, how long does it usually take for the 2nd disclosure&#8230; and the 3rd disclosure, etc. and on and on and so on?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my case it took over 10 years. Again, each situation is different and you shouldn't base your results on others situations...

From what you've posted, it seems that your W is being up-front as she feels comfortable with and was even ready to "tell more".... It's up to you on how you handle the information that she gives you. If she tells you a critical piece of information that will help you "fill in the blanks" and you get mad and throw a fit and tell her that you're going to divorce her, then she most probably won't want to share anything else with you. On the other hand, if you accept what she says, without LB her and then process that information, she will learn to trust your responses and in time, she will most probably be willing to open up even more.

One key thing that I will say is that you DO have the right to get angry. But again, you need to control your anger and respond in a godly way... You can tell her that you are angry with her and how much she hurt you by her actions... in fact, she expects you to get angry... just don't LB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope this helps... Take care,
RIF90

Lyxa there is nothing wrong with the position you are holding. You are young and have no children. There is no reason on earth for you to put up with the emotional damage your wife has brought into the marriage.

So, here's the dealio. I need more time. I don't know what to do. I'm in a panicky-stricken paralysis. Marital counselling starts soon I hope.

Last night sucked. We talked almost the entire night. It ended with her becoming hysterical and asking if I would get a gun and shoot her. It also revealed several lies... well, not lies, but instances where I had asked her questions and she responded but withheld information. The best example is that I asked if she had ever dressed up in lingerie for him. She said no. Last night, she told me that she had worn a thong for him. Technically, what's the difference between lingerie and a thong?

I think that we need to give our marriage a shot at rebuilding, but I'm also full steam ahead with contingencies. I am keeping a file now of questions for her.

It contains: Questions for her. Specifics of the questions. What I expect her answer to be. What I know it is, if I know. If I care about getting the answer. And what my reaction would be/should be.

My intent with this is to determine whether they are worth asking or not. Last night, I found out way more than I was ready for.

Hi Lyxa,

I know what you mean when you say you feel paralyzed... It does get better with time.

Sounds like you and your W had a "good" talk last night. I too wrote down a ton of questions that I had... I would caution you that if you are serious about working on your M, that you don't start "keeping score" with your questions. In other words, your W will most probably have slightly different answers to the same questions over a period of time... As long as the general facts remain the same, then I wouldn't worry too much about the details...

I kept track of all of my wife's answers to my questions and would get angry with her if a repeat question had a slightly different answer... My wife has since told me that this made her feel that no matter what she told me, that I wasn't going to believe her and it slowed down our rebuilding process considerably.

Semper Fi,
RIF90

LOL... that is exactly what I'm doing. As I tell her, only she and he know exactly what happened. She wants to forget everything... I want to know everything. It's not a healthy combination. Part of me doesn't want her to forget lest she replicate the situation that allowed this to happen again... even I become Mr. Perfect Husband.