Man, this stuff is expensive.

It went okay enough I guess. The only real problems are her persistence in describing her A as an "inappropriate relationship that did not involve sexual intercourse". I asked the MC what that meant to her: "inappropriate conversation and maybe hugging". No wonder people have a hard time understanding my anger, frustration, and heartache. Geesh, get over the hugging all ready.

There were some things that came out of it:
- In describing the relationship (I deferred that to my WW since I get in trouble for too much or too little detail)... she said that it had led to them being unclothed at times doing stuff. This is a direct contradiction to her confession to the bishop which was that they were NEVER together naked.
- Later, I commented that whenever she says his name, her voice takes on a gentleness of tone and it's totally obvious to me that she still loves him. She didn't deny this even though I wish to God that she had.

The naked thing... the confession... is this a case of where I should let things go because of the "fog" or is this an outright lie?

On a different note, her independent counsellor told her today that my questions are emotionally abusive and I need to stop or else. I thought that counsellors were just supposed to listen?

I am confused. She claimed that her affair consisted of inappropriate conversation and maybe hugging yet she admits that it led them to being unclothed at times doing stuff? If they were naked together and doing stuff then you can be pretty sure they were having sex. Clearly she is trying to put a spin on this. I guarantee you that if they are naked it was just not inappropriate conversation and hugging. She must think that you are brain dead to believe this.

I too would imagine that they had sex. My H lied about his affair for 6 YEARS. Said they never even kissed. They did have sex, and were in MY BED. This OW was my former best friend. WS's will lie about anything to protect themselves and their fantasy world.

If you read 'Shattered Vows' at findarticles.com you will see that you have every right to ask your questions, and have them answered honestly. I do NOT agree with the counselor on that one at all. You can't rebuild anything without the truth. Also, you may want to get tested for stds, sounds like she's lying to me.

Hang in there, keep posting

No no no... she told the MC that it was "an inappropriate relationship that DID NOT involve sexual intercourse". As a follow up, I asked the MC what that meant to her. The MC said she imagined it was inappropriate conversation and hugging.

As a clarification, my wife told the MC that it had led to her and the OM being naked together multiple times. In her confession to our bishop though she said that they were never together naked... just once when he took her robe off.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bryanp:
<strong>I am confused. She claimed that her affair consisted of inappropriate conversation and maybe hugging yet she admits that it led them to being unclothed at times doing stuff? If they were naked together and doing stuff then you can be pretty sure they were having sex. Clearly she is trying to put a spin on this. I guarantee you that if they are naked it was just not inappropriate conversation and hugging. She must think that you are brain dead to believe this.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am really curious about you & tomcatz ... pops up once a while here and there ... inflame emotionally & judgemental ... where are you at MB ?. Have you learn anything from your journey ? I have asked you before to post your profile and update ... no reply, wonder why <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Lyxa,

Your WW babbled ... it is normal and it shows that they are far from recovery .... For you ... DO NOTHING, don't judge, don't speculate, take a note on her words and see her actions. You will have a chance to ask that on the right time.

Remember a lust to a married W is the same sin as having A ... it is an adultery. Who are we to judge ?. Keep your focus on recovering M, your main goal, ... keep note on minor details and discrepencies. You could discuss it under radical honesty ... but not now, not yet, your W is not yet ready. Work on your M under MB principal, the road to recovery is very narrow.

-RH-

Lyxa-

Who would you rather tell that you got naked with someone other than your spouse--the church bishop or the MC? If it were me, I would be more comfortable sharing this information with the MC than the bishop. It may be hard for you to believe but your W is feeling very vulnerable and scared right now. She probably is worried about your reactions if she provides more information. Don't push her for additional details. Right now, create a safe place for her and let her come to you. You can't push her to the place you want her to be. You would probably be better off keeping your mouth shut during the MC sessions if your W is opening up. Let her talk as much as possible and avoid asking too many questions. She probably withdraws from you when you start asking questions.

Do NOT tell your W you know she feels love for OM by her voice, etc. You may feel hurt and anger when you hear about OM. You can't feel for your W. You have a right to express your feelings (hurt, betrayl, anger, loneliness, etc.) but telling her how she feels will only make her withdraw even more. I am sure she would say that OM never questioned her feelings and he showed her a lot of respect, provided good conversaton, and gave her tons of admiration which made her feel really good and made her feel like someone really cared about her.

You W is still in the fog even though she has agreed to joint counselling (she did agree to this, right?) Her counsellor may be right. Your W may feel like she is being abused when you start asking questions and don't let up. Take it from me and HT over on persistant' thread. This doesn't do anything to help recovery.

Good luck and stay calm.

HoFS

Good advice friends. Thanks. It does help to have someone validate that I'm over-reacting.

To Redhat:

I have reposted my story at least 4 times on this board when requested. I am quite surprised that you have not read it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Bryanp:
<strong>To Redhat:

I have reposted my story at least 4 times on this board when requested. I am quite surprised that you have not read it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I read it but I forgot about it ... you are the only one that repost your story. It just that there had been so many out there that are hit and run type. My appology to you. So what is your latest update ?. I will start my journey of single man and self recovery pretty soon. -RH-

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>