Hello. I guess I am a "newbie" here. I have been reading lots of your stories and they have helped me get through some really bad days. Now I need some advise, some help.

D-Day was about 6 weeks ago, although I had suspected the A on some level for months before my H told me about it. Hindsight is 20/20, right? I feel like such a fool for letting myself believe all the lies for so many months when my gut turned out to be right.

My situation is typical apparently. The OW is a co-worker. The affair is EA/PA. My WH "loves me, but is not in love with me" and is "in love with OW." She is on the back end of a bad divorce that is not final yet. We have 2 kids and I thought a pretty happy, normal life. OW is 10 years younger that WH and has no kids.

WH left for about 2 hours on D-Day after disclosure, but returned home quickly. Has remained at home all this time. Kids don't know anything about this. No one does. I have read SAA and HN/HN, and have just started LB. Learned so much! I am heavily in Plan A and WH has even mentioned how great it has been for the last several weeks. SF is often and satisfying. He is willing and so am I. We talk about things in the future (i.e. Christmas, next summer, our next house, etc.). In fact, we have planned a family vacation and will be leaving in about a week.

The problem is that he is not willing to cut off the A. He insists on no MC for either of us - I think mostly out of fear that someone will find out about the A. He has mentioned that if anyone ever finds out it will ruin WH and OW in their careers, socially, in family, etc. He said he will leave if I ever tell anyone about it. I have promised not to - for his sake, not hers - but I have also made it clear that he needs to be willing to talk to me about this situation because I don't have anyone else. It hurts when we talk because he is honest about loving her and not me, about how it hurts to not see her, and how he misses her. (He is a teacher and they are both out of school for the summer.) Although he does not see her on a daily basis right now, he talks to her on his cell-phone almost every day. He is hurting, I can tell by his demeanor. I used to think that he was hurting because of the situation, but now I think he is hurting becuase he can't see her all the time. He only sees her for a few hours at a time once every two weeks or so. I know that he is being honest about that part - she lives 30 minutes away and WH is taking care of our kids this summer. He has also been hoest about telling me when he goes to see her.

I want my marriage to work. My WH is the best dad in the world to my kids. I love him with all my heart, and my Plan A'ing has started to make me fall "in love" with him all over again somehow. I cannot imagine life without him - he is the only man I have ever loved! We have been married 10.5 years - some years better than others. I am commiteed to recovery from this. However, I realize that we cannot start recovering until he decides to stop the A. He has said that he cannot do that. Some days I feel like I can wait this out and let the A die on its own - other days I don't see how I can do it. But, I cannot imagine my life without WH so I keep Plan A'ing. I wish someone could tell me how long this is going to take and how it will end...... I am so tired of crying inside.....

Sorry your situation has brought you here. But you have come to the right place. I am also a "newbie" here, and the help I have received is what has kept me going!!! My situation is very different from yours (OW is my sister, and it was only sex a couple of times -- no emotions involved) But there will be posts soon from others who will know exactly what to say. I do know that almost all A's die a natural death... unfortunatly nobody can guess how long it will take. You are doing the right things (reading SAA, and plan A'ing) Read other posts here and you will gain insight from others!

I wish you the best of luck -- hang in there! Things WILL get better for you!

-mc needs your help

Dear Willingtowait,
I read your story and I feel so much for you since my situation is quite similar. This site is helping me in that I am slowly switching my focus onto myself, because nobody can guarantee succesful rebuild of M relationship, at least what I will be left with will be stronger, more confident, less guilt ridden person. But surely I do hope my H affair will end and he will be willing to build better M with me and maybe fall in love with me. I am too very unsure how long I can last and remain positive in this position, I feel very lonely and depend on this site to vent and ask for advice.
I know I owe my marriage longer shot in plan A since I am too convinced my H is a good person so I am willing to carry on for a while. I know how it hurts though and how much you thrive on any signs of recovery. And I understand how having children may affect your choices.
You are not alone.
FBOW

It is so hard to sit here and read my story - I am crying. I guess seeing it written down makes it seem even more real, you know? I didn't ever realize that I could hurt this much for so long. I know that it really hasn't been that long, and I keep myself going by reminding myself that this is just a short "blip" in the lifetime that I plan to spend with my WH. My family deserves much more time and all my effort right now to get through this. If it keeps us together and makes us stronger, I truly believe it is worth the effort. I just didn't ever quite understand how hard it would be... I also keep reminding myself that my WH is home with me and our kids instead of with OW. He may be thinking of her, but he is still at home. That's good, isn't it? There are days when I think about just throwing out an ultimatum and sending him off to live with her. Then I think he would realize what a mistake this A is. But, what if he didn't? And, it seems like a HUGE LB to do that right now. Finally, I am not prepared for the consequences yet should he decide to stay gone for good. According to Harley's theory, you have to be prepared for the consequences if you go to Plan B, right? I know I am not ready for that..... I am a good person - why has this happened to me? Why can't I fix it? I am trying so hard - the waiting is just eternal.

Dear Willingtowait
I hope that the support you receive on this site keeps you going and gives you some strength for the difficult times you are going through - it certainly did for me! My WH told me that he would end his EA immediately, when I found out (you can find my thread under Trying so hard). We immediately began trying very hard to put things back together (or so I thought), but 2 weeks later I found out that, in fact, he had continued to see OW as usual. I was devastated. The honesty you have with your WH is a good beginning. My WH also told me that he loves me but is not "in love" with me. We have remained together since he ended it finally and we are slowly going through every stage - some terrible, some pretty good. It takes committment on both sides. My WH was in "the fog" for a long time. He said some hurtful things that I will never forget. But he is trying hard to make our M better and I am hopeful that he will look at me one day and feel that passion and love again. I have learned on this site that every A has to work to its end. I am sure that a huge part of your husband's attraction for this woman is down to the fact that meetings are without the "normal" distractions of real life - kids, chores, financial issues, etc. The relationship would be very different if they were permanently together! After spending more happy time together, we are all remembering how happy we make eachother in our little family - and my H says that he is feeling happier and more settled. It is a long and very hard road - there will be times when you are so angry and hurt that you don't think that you can carry on - but there are also moments where you look at eachother and things are just right, so persevere - I wish you luck and happiness!
Fishwife
Me: BS32
H : WH32
M : 8 years - together for 12 years
Kids : 2S - 3.5yrs/10wks
D. Day : EA - 17/05/02

Does anyone out there have any advice for me about how to carry on while my WH won't end his A? I am not ready for Plan B, so what options do I have? Any advice about how to get through this? How long does it typically take for an A to die on its own?

Willing-

My advice is: Knowledge is power. Read everything you can on this site, especially all about Plan A. Also, get some books on the subject, His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair by Harley, Torn Asunder by Carder, Private Lies by Pitman, Divorce Remedy by Michelle Davis and Love Must be Tough by Dobson. The more you know about the dynamics of the A and how it affects people, the better you will be able to deal with it. Even though the circumstances are different, almost all A's have the same characteristics and the players tend to behave the same way.

The most important thing you need to understand about A's is that they have to die a natural death, any interference on your part will only prolong it. Most people say give it 6 months to finally die, but on occasion it can take longer. But, as soon as the bubble of secrecy is burst, the A will start to show signs of stress and begin its inevitable crash. Its how much either one of the infidels wants to hang onto the feelings of the A that will ultimately determine how long it will last.

For me, the best way I have been able to deal with this is to focus on myself and my kids. Part of that focus in the beginning was to do some serious self examination and see where I have made mistakes in the M which allowed my WW to feel like she needed to go outside the M for fulfillment. That's not saying the A is in any way my fault, she is 100% responsible for that, but it is saying that I have contributed 50% to creating an environment where the A was considered. Right now you need to take care of yourself, exercise, sleep, get a support network going, take care of your kids and not worry too much about WH (easier said than done!)

Avoiding those nasty LB's is also very important, you want to create an environment where WH feels save to come to, much as you want to hit him over the head with a rolling pin. If saving your M is what you want, you've come to the right place. If I can survive this and come out of it a better person, it should be a piece of cake for you.

Hang in there, you can make it, and there are a lot of wonderful people here willing and wanting to

Thanks for all the encouragement. It has really enabled me to "let go" sometimes and feel like there is someone who cares about me. All this Plan A'ing leaves me feeling drained many days - like I give, give, give and receive so little in return.

Last night was near the top of the list of the hardest times for me over the past few weeks. Basically, I had planned for some quality time with my WH that did not materialize. He had made other plans. I asked if he was going to see OW and he said no. However, at 2am he called home and said he was at her house "talking" and didn't want me to worry that something had happened to him. Needless to say, I was devastated! He called again in 30-40 minutes and said that he was on his way home and was still talking to her on the phone. He asked me not to come out to his car when he got home - saying, "if you want me to fix this, please do what I ask." When he did come inside after a short period of time, he said that they had been fighting for 3 hours. I asked if he had been at her house all night (instead of where he told me he was going), and he said no. He said she called him and asked him to come over after his poker game, he did, and they ended up in a huge, bad fight. He would not tell me what it was about. I tried my best to control my emotions, but I did cry. I also told him that I appreciated him being honest about where he was and thanked him for calling me, but also mentioned how bad I was hurting. I barely slept at all.

This morning, WH came in and woke me up and initiated SF. He has not done that in awhile! He also held me in his arms and told me that he was sorry for hurting me last night. When I replied that I was also sorry, he said "no, I am the only one who needs to be sorry." I cannot tell you how great it felt to hear those words.

I am thankful that maybe there is a crack starting in the A. I am also realistic that this is not likely to be the end. I am devastated that he continues to put energy into that relationship. But, amid this black hole, I see a few shimmers of light. WH mentioned something last night about the next 40 years with me - and he was tender and caring with me this morning. I am probably setting myself up to fall again by clinging to these thoughts, but they are all I have right now.

I started a journal yesterday. I cannot believe all the ups and downs I have been through in the last 12 hours. But writing it down helps.

Please keep me in your prayers - I need them! WTW

One thing that I have learned is to take what the WS says and compare it to their actions. Usually their actions speak more that their actual words do. Did WH look like he went a couple of rounds with OW? If so, then he most probably did, and his desire for intimacy proves it even more.

Its been almost 2 months since DDay for you and I'm betting that the A really is starting to crumble. Unfortunately, you cant get directly involved and do anything to speed up the process. Let the 2 of them beat this A into the ground, let them be the ones to LB each other, eventually they will get to a point where they cant stand to be together even for a minute.

In the mean time, keep that Plan A going strong and consistent. WH came home to you, he wanted to be intimate with you, he even apologized to you for what he has done. Yes, these are all good things and are all a result of your Plan A efforts. It aint over yet and there will be plenty of times when things seem to be going backwards for both of you, so be prepared for those times.

Things are starting to change, really try and avoid those LB's and simply be there for WH, like you were last night. We are here whenever you need us.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My WH told me yesterday that the A is ending. I think it has something to do with the bid fight that they had the other night. He said he does not want to talk about it and just wants to be left alone right now. I can tell by his demeanor and his actions that something has happened - he seems so sad. Reminds me of myself on D-Day. I still will not allow myself to believe that the A is really over because I don't want to get my hopes up, you know?

One of the things that I keep struggling with is thinking that this breakup is about me. I have to keep reminding myself that it probably has nothing to do with me. But, that thought hurts, too. I think that on some level I WANT it to be about me. All these things keep happening that affect my life so drastically, but I have no influence. It is like watching things happen from outside the ring....

I am trying to keep my "obsessing" under control. Every time my WH has a change in demeanor, I tend to over-analyze. "What does it mean? Are they getting back together? Why does he sound happy? Why does he seem mad?" I tend to let my imagination get the best of me sometimes and I have remind myself that this is not something I can control. I am doing a good - although not perfect! - Plan A. And, I am happy for parts of many days. I am thankful for that.

We are taking our children on a vacation next week. I am hopeful that many hours in the car (can you imagine looking forward to that part? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) and a beach vacation will provide the opportunity for our family to grow together. Maybe it will help my WH become more secure and feel better about the end of the A - and the start of our recovery. I sincerely think that God is watching out for me. His timing seems so appropriate! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The choice to have an affair was his! If you need to talk to a counsellor then do it! Don't let him make that choice too (let's face it, his judgement isn't great right now). He doesn't want anyone to know because, right now, he can 'have his cake and eat it too'. He isn't having to take responsibility for his actions and make a mature decision about his life. I doubt very much he'll walk permanently because you decided to 'out' him. I suspect he was just trying to threaten/bully you. His behaviour has been rude and disrespectful to you and your children.

My advice to you is start talking...to friends, to family, to MC...anyone who can be supportive(and won't tell you to "dump the bum"). It's amazing just what a little support and compassion from others can do. Don't worry about WH's reaction right now, that's his problem. If your husband decides to come home then you must insist on NO CONTACT with OW and he should join you in MC. Start looking after yourself, be nice to yourself(heaven knows he hasn't been). If you fall apart right now you won't be able to be there for your kids. They need you. You are a good person. Unfortunately, as most of us know, good or bad, pretty or ugly, fat or thin, rich or poor...affairs happen to all kinds of people.

You can only fix yourself, you can't fix anyone else.

<small>[ July 17, 2002, 05:40 PM: Message edited by: mgm ]</small>

Hi,
The rollercoaster ride is normal. Keep coming here to vent. Vent in your journal. Don't vent to WH.

I'm sure she will not like it that you two will be on a vacation together for a whole week. Make the most of it.

As far as how to get through this, Plan A is about not LB'ing to the WH, and it is also about improving you. You need to be the best that you can be for yourself.

Good luck

My WH is definately going through something - although I am not quite sure what. His demeanor changes from one minute to the next it seems. One minute we have a constructive and pleasant conversation about our kids or our trip. Five minutes later he is harsh and curt. Later, he is pleasant and tender. He does not want to talk about his feelings right now, and I am trying to respect his wish because I can tell that something is really troubling him. I am sure that it has to do with whatever happened between he and the OW.

Is this normal? What does it mean? I know that I have read some posts about the stages of greiving - anyone know where they are? Could he be greiving the end of the A? (I guess I am hoping..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

What should I do - just keep Plan A'ing? I don't like seeing him in pain. It seems like no matter what happens, someone is always hurting due to this A. I want it to end. I want us to be happy again..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

The WS is on an emotional rollercoaster of his own. The changes in his demeanor more than likely reflect the A. They are probably fighting and this whole A thing is an addiction so it's like they go through withdrawal. My husband left me and my daughter 69 days ago. There have been times since he left that he is talking to me and I'm thinking "this is not my husband". For example, last Monday he showed up at the house at 2 a.m. and we made love. He went back to his mothers and by Wednesday he was cold and distant again. This Monday he was ending the relationship (again). He was spending a lot of time talking to me and everything was great, by Tuesday evening he's with her again. By Wednesday morning he tells me he realized by reading the SAA book that he is suffering through an addiction and is going to end it to come home and by Wednesday evening he claims he ended it but is not coming home to me then by Thursday morning he has ended it "and it wasn't easy" he said and was thinking of starting by coming to spend a weekend with us. So you see, it's nuts. Every now and then I get off the rollercoaster just for my sanity. I tell you if I didn't know the Lord I would be a basket case by now. Hang in there, this too will past.

I just want to commend you for being so strong.

I have no real advice on how to aid in the demise of the A. Other than I’m on the side of exposing the A if he won’t end it, even though you are not. If you expose it yes you will be the bad guy, but you did not create this mess, they did.

I do want to speak with you seriously about something else though, while your H is still involved in any way with this women and the two of you are intimately involved please insist on some form of protection against STD’s. I don’t care if you think it’s a LB. Your life is not worth risking.

oz

Excellent advice about protecting yourself from STD's.

I haven't posted in awhile - been lurking and Plan A'ing.

I feel like my WH and I have made progress communicating. We are able to talk about many aspects of the A and our marriage. It is painful, but not as painful as keeping it to ourselves. Last week, my WH told me tearfully and from his heart that he knows I love him, and he can tell how hard I am fighting for him, and he appreciates it. He said he didn't know if he would be strong enough to do it if the tables were turned. He had teary eyes as he spoke. It was the encouragement that I needed to renew my commitment to Plan A.

However, the A has not ended. It is a constant source of frustration and anxiety for me. School is going to start soon and since they are both teachers, they will see each other on a regular basis again. They have maintained contact daily over the summer, but I am worried about the fact that they will be in the same place again. Sometimes I rationalize that maybe it will provide an opportunity for them to LB each other, and other times I think it will fuel the A. Any thoughts?

I want to approach my WH with more of my questions. Have his feelings changed about his relationship with OW over the summer? Last week he told me that things were "shaky" between them right now.... what does that mean? I know they are both very afraid of discovery - and frankly, so am I. It is hard for me to keep this private right now, but my thought is that if we can reconcile our lives will remain more "normal." I don't want damage to our children, our families, our friendships if we can avoid it. He feels the same. And, both my WH and OW are very distressed about the damage to their careers should the A be discovered. But, how long can I keep this up?

I have good days and bad. Some days I think that I need to keep Plan A'ing and just wait for the A to end. Other days, I get so angry that he won't end the A and commit to the marriage that I just don't know what to do. I want to give him an ultimatum, although I know that would be a huge LB and, quite frankly, I am not ready to give him up yet. We are still living together as a family, and are basically quite happy. My Plan A has actually made our summer quite pleasant - as I tell my WH, this has been the best summer of my life and the worst summer of my life. I question whether he is "cake eating" by living at home and still seeing OW, but I can also tell that he is in turmoil about the situation. He said he feels "stuck in the middle" and doesn't know what to do. I have told him that if he doesn't make any decisions, eventually one of the two of us (me or OW) will make a change and he will not longer have a choice. I guess in that case, I just have to hope that I can outlast her. How long should I live like this, though? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I want to be truly happy and loved completely. I want my family to stay together. I want my children to grow up with our family intact - healthy and happy.

Thoughts? Advice? Encouragement? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just when I feel halfway decent about the state of things, it always seems to fall apart. Tonight my WH and I had another talk. He had gotten angry with me for no reason. He admitted that it was really not me he was angry with, it was himself. He is angry with himself for keeping everyone in limbo. He said that he wants to be with OW, that he thinks about leaving our marriage sometimes to try and make it work with her. I want to tell him so bad that he is being unrealistic, but I am afraid it would be a huge LB coming from me. He seems to think that he can leave the marriage, but not let anyone know it is because he is having an affair. Who is he kidding? Then, he thinks that he can secretly see the OW for 6-8 months before letting anyone know they are dating. What? Finally, she is not even divorced yet. He says it is only a matter of having the signatures, but he also admitted that they haven't even filed yet. What fantasy world is he living in here? Is this just part of the "fog?" I appreciate him being honest about his feelings with me right now, as communication has been one of the problems in our marriage pre-A. However, I don't like what I am hearing. I wish he would realize how ridiculus it is. I want him to realize that staying together and working out our marriage is the best option for our kids, if nothing else. He said that sometimes he thinks he should give his relationship with OW a chance..... and he is not willing to consider the fact that it might not work out. He calls me "negative" when I bring it up. Why can't he see that it really doesn't have much of a chance? She is still married, they don't want anyone to know about the A, etc. This is tearing me up and I don't know what to do.

I have to keep this marriage together for myself and for my kids. My WH is a good man. This is just a huge mistake. My kids and I deserve the life that we signed up for with him.....

Dear Willingtowait,

You are strong, you keep plan A'ing, despite the limbo situation you still to seem to find encouragement and you stated yourself that plan A was working for you and your kids this summer since it was a "good" summer. Do not go to plan B if you are not ready. I know how lonely and frustrated you must feel because of the secrecy of the A now forced upon you. Be proud that you are able to act by reason, not by emotion, and that only makes you stronger. Vent here. Most of us here can relate to your feelings. I wish you the beginning school year will bring a positive boost for your M.
FBOW

Dear WTW
I have just read your thread again, from start to finish. You were right when you said that we have similar lives! I am so sorry that the rollercoaster ride continues for you. You sound so strong and committed - I admire you tremendously for your courage and strength. I understand how you feel when you say that you can't understand how your WH wants to leave, rather than stay and repair your marriage, and be a good H and father. Children are so vulnerable and I know that my concern for my boys was a huge factor in how I handled my WH's A. It was worth it. We are still working hard and there are many times when I wonder if this is the right decision for me - the pain of hearing how he feels/felt about me is immense - but the reward of watching my sons blossom and enjoy their father's attention swells my heart. He has love to give. I want to receive it. Hopefully one day soon we will get our act together and meet in the middle!

Keep strong. Your faith will help you and so will your children, your friends here and, when he does something positive - no matter how small - your WH will help you too.
Best wishes,
Fishwife