Why did you continue contact with OP after you saw the devastation it caused everyone? Was it different after D Day?

MAH
My WH continued to lie about contact with the OW during a period when I was working hard at "us" - especially as I thought he was going through Withdrawal at the time. He knew I would find out because he was maintaining contact on his cell phone and we had agreed that we would go through the bill together. I was devastated when I saw that he had continued to call her. In fact, he had spoken to her almost every single day. He explained afterwards that he felt that he had to end it in his own way - not just by the no-contact letter, in order that he would know that it was over for good and there would be no unresolved issues to back for. I have thought about this a lot. The big problem I have is that I thought that he had recognised my devastation. He says that it was a selfish need to continue to talk to her. It hurts so that he needed that more than he needed to be loyal to me. The one big problem that this has caused is that now I find it so hard to believe him about anything he says. I can't tell when he lies to me and that makes me feel both stupid and insecure. Also, I really believed that he knew how I felt, cared how I felt and wanted to make it right - it seems that maybe he did, but he wanted it all his way. We are in MC at present and I am hopeful that we will regain that trust and caring for eachother's feelings. I have heard some talk of "the fog" - perhaps this is all part of the process!
Fishwife

FW
You said everything I feel. I think about this..if he could convince me that it was over and that he really wanted to make it work and all the time he was still in contact with her..how do I know if this recovery is for real? Also, I DEMANDED that he stopped seeing her. I think that was a mistake. He said I am too controlling..he was proving a point I guess. Plus I didn't even know who SHE was. I was doing everything in my power to convince him to tell me and I was getting outside intervention...(investigator and his coworkers). He knew this. I think alot of the contact was to survey the damage so to speak...talk about what they had done. I assume she was telling him he shouldn't feel so badly...that it wasn't his fault. I sure wasn't saying those things. I think if I would have found MB sooner, I could have Plan A'd better (sort of did something similar on my own)and maybe he wouldn't have continued contact for 7 months after D Day.

Presently, I judge his actions to tell me if he is doing the NC thing. When he was still talking to her, he was lifting weights and running every day. Now he is just running every other day. Then (this is wierd but I noticed it) he used to spray cologne on his underwear..I should have known then, huh? He doesn't do this now. I will definitely know something is up when he does this again. Also, sometimes he didn't want to eat supper with me, and he always waited until I was asleep before he came to bed. Now he comes to bed whenever I am ready, even if he isn't tired, just to cuddle. So, hopefully I will notice if he changes. Gotta get to work.

I think he totally separated the two lives he was leading. He said he wasn't unhappy with me, just himself. He was never mean. Never missed a holiday or anniversary. Always got me cards. So you can see how I can wonder if this is real now.

MAH
I'm beginning to see how most WS fit a pattern. The ironic thing is that, if he had ended it when he originally said he had, we would be so much further down the line - I trusted him and was trying with everything I had to move on. The continued contact shook my confidence in him terribly - and in myself. I also noticed changes in my H during the A. He experimented with different fragrances (even took to wearing aftershave to work), went on a drive to lose some weight, became very conscious of his hair, etc. I did actually question it at the time and, because he had never lied to me before, took his word for it that nothing odd was going on. Now, even if he looks at the price of cologne, I wonder and worry. Every word he says, every action he takes is looked at closely to see if he is genuine, or if it is actually for someone else's benefit. I do so want to believe him. I do so want to trust him - but even this makes me worry that I won't see what is going on, because I won't want to! Honesty and integrity are paramount for me - I thought he valued them too. I know that he is embarrassed and he does seem remorseful, but her feelings do seem to count more than mine. He says that she is completely out of the picture now - but he has told me that before. I am trying to see his actions as proof of his committment. All in all, this shook me terribly - I always thought I was a pretty acurate judge of character - thought I knew him so well - just shows!!
Fishwife

Why the continued contact after seeing the devastation? Because I rationlized everything so that I could make myself feel better....I was so tired of the misery of my own marriage...being with the OM I felt better...in my marriage I felt like a wolf caught in a trap and I was gnawing off my paw, despite the horrific pain, in a desperate attempt to escape. I felt to stay in the marriage would be the death of me...literally...I would rather kill myself than continue in the misery...the OM gave me for once a diff option..some hope that I could love and be loved in return...I never knew/believed or understood that my M could be different...I thought I had no true choice...it was go back and suffer...or stay with OM and have a chance at happiness...This is just how I feel/felt...

Things that drove me to want to continue contact with OM:

1) H's anger and filthy words he called me. If my H is not going to be a 'safe harbor' for me...I will run to one who is (yes, I know the OM is not truly safe either..but when emotions are bruised...the OM will win out if the spouse is being hateful...although I can definitely understand why the spouse would want to be hateful).

2) H being a doormat and a wimp..if you don't set enough boundaries...we will run/jump right over them...it sounds silly..but it's almost like a little kid...who is testing...if you don't stand up (in a LOVING way) for what you need..for your boundaries...we will take advantage especially if we are in the fog...

3) As the WW's are expected to try and start keeping their word...the BS's must keep theirs also....the marriage didn't get to the vulnerable stage singlehandedly. My H is not making much effort at all to better anything...he would rather focus on how I am the one who committed the biggest sin..folks, this is not a contest...if we make it one..both will lose.

4) Fear...fear of losing the FEELINGS the OP created in us..the feelings we had for the OP...not really so much a fear of losing the OP themselves...fear that we will let them go..recommit ourselves to the marriage..only to find ourselves in the same situation..and more than likely a worse one because now we have a hurt (and angry?) betrayed spouse. Fear of losing everything...spouse and other...fear of being alone...who do you sacrifice? Fear of punishment and recriminations for years with spouse..

5) Being LONELY!!! I have begged my H over and over to spend more time with me..he works nights and weekends....I am desperate here folks...he keeps saying he will look for another job...but he has said this for years....

6) OP is an 'easy way out'....don't have to focus as much on myself...less baggage with OP.

These are just some of the things I have thought/felt when continuing contact with OP. This does not represent all WW's by any means!

Wishing you the best...

One other thing...I learned this a long time ago..when in my late teens...I was going to AA because I had an addiction to drugs and alcohol. I didn't really want to be there..I had been busted by my folks which is the only reason I got 'clean' at the time (and had several subsequent relapses later..finally have not had any illegal drugs in 18 years). It is hard to stay clean for someone else...you can do it for a while..but it won't last. You have to WANT to stop the behavior. Even wanting to stop doesn't guarantee no backsliding..at least in relation to the addiction...it also doesn't mean we will backslide..just that it is so much harder than you realize when you agree to stop.

Just as with a drug addicts behavior..none of us are surprised anymore when we hear stuff on the news about the lengths some go to for their 'drug of choice' (well..not surprised often...heh). We all expect a drug addicts behavior to be irrational...well hey, they are 'coming down'..going through withdrawal...frantic for their next fix...the same goes for many WS's. Don't expect rational behavior from someone engaged in an irrational activity. Now, does this make the WS not responsible?? Of course not!!!

I was so relieved when I had been in AA for a while to discover some truths...being an alcoholic or drug addict..or a WS doesn't make me a bad or immoral person at heart...I was so in the grips of my addiction that I threw beliefs and values that I held near and dear completely out the window. I did things in pursuit of my drug of choice that I cannot even bring myself to share here. These are NOT things I would do if I were distanced from my addiction and sober! It makes me want to throw up when I think about it today..but I have the benefit now of the healing of time and distance...I have perspective..when I was enmeshed in my obsession..I had none. I even knew during my A that it was not a healthy relationship!! How can any relationship that violates my marriage agreement be healthy? I know that today..but in the fog..I knew nothing except the overwhelming desire/urge/frantic need to be with the OP. It's not a good situation..it requires time, love, and counseling (good counseling, that is). Sometimes anti-depressants for the WS are critical. We confuse our depression and think it is just sadness because the OP is not in our lives..so we try to fix the depression by contacting the OP. We forget that sometimes we started the A in the first place because of many factors including our depression.

Well, have to take care of my sick kiddo. She has strep throat.

Hugs,

YellowRose

MAH: I know you are looking for responses from WS's, but, my gosh, I so totally relate your and Fishwife's responses, that I have to add my 2 cents worth.

D-day #1 was almost 20 years ago for my H and me, but only recently did I learn that he had continued contact with the OP(in the form of Christmas cards once/year) until the present.

I have been asking him WHY (continued contact) every since D-day #2 almost 2 months ago. My H's initial response was that he was selfish and stupid, but after reading HNHN and Surviving the Affair, he told me that he was not ready to end it when he told me he did, so had to find out for sure if he was making a mistake in ending it or not. He said that the contact dwindled fairly quickly to a letter once a year and then to finally a card each Christmas and that the A died a natural death. He said that he knew that it was wrong to lie to me, but felt that it was "harmless" because the A was long over and there was no threat to our M. He said that I had hurt enough and he didn't want to hurt me anymore. He never stopped contact completely because he was curious as to how OW was doing. That's his story now, hope it is the true one, finally.

He had gone all these years thinking that he was some sort of superhero to be able to stay in contact with an old friend and not be tempted to go beyond that. He also felt that his was no typical A (since he is no typical man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). After reading Surviving an Affair, he said (with a disappointed tone in his voice) "My A was so classic, just like all the A's in this book." I found some solace in his understanding and acknowledgment of that fact.

I have to go....thanks for the opportunity to vent a little <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Thanks to all your replies;

FishWife, I truly believe that if he wouldn't have lied about continued contact we would be well into recovery. I Kept telling him that each time I discovered something new, it was a step back. My self esteem is gone. I feel like I will never be what he wants in a W and I am just waiting for the next blonde to appear between us. (He prefers blondes...another clue to watch for).

Yellow Rose, I understand the comparison to addiction. That is how I am seeing it for the first time. In fact, when OW called me to "apologize" I told her exactly that. I said "don't get your hopes up..you aren't the first...my husband has a serious problem". I don't feel I am foolish for sticking it out; he says he is sorry and he loves me. He never said he didn't love me, ever. I keep that in my heart at all times. I also agree that you can't make them to anything (like children) they don't want to do. They will try to please you, but in the end they will give the broccoli to the dog...(ewww!)

Here is another question..do you think A's are common in people with other addictions? My husband has been a chain smoker for 27 years, tried everything but can't quit. Doesn't drink thank goodness.

I compared what he did to me to "being worse than being beaten". At least then you have bruises to show for the pain...who can see what is in your heart and the reason for the tears.

Our counselor said he mentally abuses me with the continuous infidelities. What is your opinion?

You can't realize how much this is helping me. I have been reading on here since a few months after D Day and now I am getting brave enough to ask for help and maybe help someone else.