This is kind of a reply to yesterday's post about hating OM. It is also a reflection of my progress . . .Good or bad, I don't know.<P><BR>Okay, I'm going to hate OM if it kills me (that’s what loving him is doing – killing me - can it get worse?). I hate him with every bit of love I ever had. So I've written this letter to him. I don't plan to send it, but I just had to write it. The problem is, that everything I know about him contradicts what I've chosen to see in him. For example, I accuse him of abandoning S, but the fact is he pleaded with me to let him be the father, the full-time father of his son. I know it tore him apart to learn of S and then have me choose my H as the father. OM offered child support, grieves over the fact that he has a son he doesn't even have in his life. I have to admit that I've been very unfair and down right mean in this letter. I said everything that I knew would hurt him. He has said that he will date other women, but only because he cannot have me. He does have to move on, eventually. I know he was not with another women when we were together. We were constantly together. For the time we were apart (in different states), I am quite sure he dated when we were "off again" but I know he never had anyone in his heart. I never asked or expected him to be "faithful" to me. That seems unreasonable - I'm married to another man. How could I ask him to be faithful when we were "off again" and when he knew nothing of the baby? As for him being far away now, that is a mutual choice he and I made together. I let him go because I had to - for my marriage, then to hide the pregnancy (see profile). Every time I have asked him to come back, he has done so within a few days. He would move back if I asked him to do so AND if I was willing to leave H. I feel that is reasonable on his part. Gosh, he is a single man. I can't blame him for wanting to either have me in his life, or find a way to forget me and move on. As for the father/son issue - well, with this MB crowd, I've learned OM just can't win. When I've reported that he wants to be in S's life, folks here accuse him of being selfish and manipulating and of using S to get to me. Folks say OM has no place and that he lost his right as a father and he should step away. When I report that OM is walking away, in S's best interest and in his own emotional best interest, OM is accused of being a deadbeat dad and an abandoning father. He can't win and I can't defend him or I lose too. Anyway, I'm working very hard to hate him, and the following is my first letter of hate (that I'll not send - but it helps me hate him to just articulate such thoughts).<P>OM,<BR>I love you. And because I love you, I hate you. My hate for you I wear as a disguise for my love, because that love got to burdensome for me to bear. But, as my love once did, my hate now penetrates deeply, passionately, into the core of my soul. I tremble as I write these words. Literally, my hands, head, and eyes tremble as I fight to focus on articulating the rage that falls upon this page. "How could you?" I shout from 2,000 miles away. How could you forsake, abandon, deny your own flesh and blood? You attempt to blame me - you say it is I who have forced you away from S, but that is a very big lie from a very small father. Yes, I opted, on July 7th 1999, the day of your final ultimatum, to remain married. But, my being married to another man does not magically remove your DNA from S. Together we conceived him. I am not the only biological parent here. You too are a parent. I am not the only one who should be in his life. You too should be. But you conveniently slip away from the pain of the situation and shift your guilt to me. You easily toss your guilt, your responsibility, and your obligations upon me. How can you do such a thing? How can you force your own son out of your heart? How can you choose to do such a thing? You blame me for keeping him from you for the first 10 months of his life. You blame me for being married before I ever met you. You blame me and say it is I who stand between you and S, because I will not marry you. But that is a lie and a cop out. If you wanted to be in his life you would be. No, the situation is certainly not ideal. No, it isn't easy to be a father to a child in such a situation. Yes, you have your school and your life. Yes, it is horribly painful for you. But there is a child here and you are his father. Would that it were so easy for me to just push all of the pain (and the tangible results of my actions) out of my mind and "Move on." Would that it were so easy for me, in the midst of the pain I feel in the situation, to simply say, "No, he isn't my child." <P>Into my heart I have allowed a bitter hatred to seep. I had to call upon it because wanting you, loving you invited sadness so thick it stifled my will to survive the fact that I cant' have you, and to in turn survive the loss. You and I, out of necessity, have smothered, time and again, the torch we carried for each other. And yet - in a corner of our souls, a candle still flickers. I have to smolder that fire, OM. That flame, even if it were diminished to an ember, will lead me down a hideous path of self-destruction. <BR> <BR>Do you know how I must now visualize you each day, OM? I must burn into my heart a vision of you with another woman. Though you tell me there is no one else in your life, I must imagine that there is (there will be someday, right?). only that vision can fuel my anger and my hate, and subsequently suffocate my love. My how easily my place has been taken. When you talk with her about the last 2 years of your life do you tell her about me? About S? Do you tell her, as you did me, that I was your first love? Your first and only lover? Do you tell her about me? About us? About S and I? Or do you gracefully omit us from your courtly conversation, as you have from your callous heart? I visualize you enjoying your college life, playing like a carefree young man who thinks nothing of his son, following your ambitions and creating for yourself, and your new love, a wonderfully blissful life, far from the cares of a 14 month old boy. My, it must be nice to get off so easily. I force myself to believe that you think of me as a wistful regret, a mistake, and that you've reduced me to a few years of good sex. I imagine you are very relieved that no one is looking to you for child support or for any kind of responsibility, or assistance. But you will tell me that you would have offered that if you could be my husband and S's full-time father. The problem is, OM, we both walked into an affair. We knew there would be consequences. We hoped we would find sweet peace in one another's arms forever, but we took a calculated risk. Neither of us walked blindly into our relationship - you knew I was married. Wow, it was easy for you to sleep with me then, and I suppose just as easy for you to sleep now. I suppose its time for me to relinquish the romantic dream I have of you loving me, and caring about S, even from afar. Maybe it is only me who pines for you. No, I don't expect you to be miserable and lonely all of your life. But Jesus, I am starting think you talk a good talk about wanting to do what is best for S. The more parents I meet, in all kinds of painful situations, the more I hear about how they would do anything to be with their kids. They would go through all mighty hell to be near their kids. I would give up anything in life if it would allow me to be near my estranged child. I don't understand your choice to be away from him. Are you just thrilled to death that H has taken all responsibility of S off of your shoulders? I can't help but think that if you cared about the fact that you created a child, regardless of the mistakes I made, you would cross rivers and oceans to see him at every opportunity. There is nothing - absolutely nothing that would have kept me from being with S - even in the first few days when "I didn't know him." I don't understand OM. From the moment I learned there was a S I loved him and wanted to be with him. I thought of him constantly, cared for him, missed him when he was still. How, how can a parent - even one in a difficult situation, possibly remain so distant from his child?<P>There is an anger now. The intensity which is fueled by the depth of my passion for you. It is a fierce, scarlet, liquid rage. All of this anger and pain and the lack of understanding make me wonder about you. I wonder if perhaps I should close the door that leads to a relationship between you and S. You have asked me to do that, basically. You have requested that I not tell you of him, that I not send you pictures. It is too painful for you - and I accept that. But for you to close the door on him is making it impossible for me to think of leaving it open. If you want me to leave it open, you need to tell me so. But if you don't ask me to leave it open I am going to close it - forever. I will harden my heart to you as his father. I will deny your existence, or rather, when the day arrives (and it is just a few months off) that I begin to introduce S to his heritage, I will introduce his "father" as a man I knew, but who is now dead. If you want to be out of his life now, you will need to remain so forever. If you want to be in his life "someday" then I need you to tell me that. As far as I know, from here, you have forced him out of your heart and you will continue to live in such a manner. As such, I’ve got to do what is best, easiest, for S and I.<P>Yes, OM, I still love you. Not a moment goes by when I am not confronted by the staggering, piercing absence of you; or assaulted by the torment of your lingering presence. My soul still longs for your alliance. My hands still crave the feeling of your skin. My lips still long to taste your mouth. My ear still longs for your sweet whisper. But this has got to stop. There has to be an end to the pain I find in loving you and in you loving me. So now I force myself, against myself, to believe you revel in freedom from me. Forcing myself to belive that you now find a sense of comfort, a fraction of pleasure, a sliver of joy from the company of another, drives my passionate hate for you. Are you glad to be free from my chains? Such utter devastation I cannot take. My heart cannot take. The very thought wounds me in a way that words cannot express. But it is to that thought which I now cling. It allows me to dismiss you from my life, from S's life. That thought alone drives my hate for you. And it is that burning, raging, bitter hate to which I cleave (as I once did our love), in order to find reason to go forward, without you.<P>With new found strength,<BR>FC<P><p>[This message has been edited by facing choices (edited August 24, 1999).]

FC - I think this is a BIG step towards healing and you are making tremendous progress in the face of adversity. Stand firm in your convictions to eradicate the OM's grip on your soul. In time, that grip will be reduced to an ember and that too will be extinquished.<P>Keep holding on FC - I'm pulling for you like never before.<P>SHA<p>[This message has been edited by Sir Hurts Alot (edited August 24, 1999).]

Uh...FC, are you undergoing any counseling? <P>You are in a pretty bad state, and if you're trying to handle all this alone, you may be biting off more than you can chew.<P>You're navigating a minefield...why not let a trained counselor help you through it?

Wow FC! So very well done. This is the product of soul searching, a wonderful effort. You're on your way....<P>And might I add, your writing skills are top notch.<P>EC

I'm now giving serious thought to sending this letter to OM. Mistake?

Yes I think it is a mistake. You profess your love for him, yet you say you need to hate him. I think it would only confusse him as to what you really want. If you sent it, he may call you and you know how that would affect you yet again.<P>It's good to write it all down, but be very careful about sending stuff like this.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html</A>

SHA, I don't know if it is progress. It is most definitely an anger phase, the likes of which I’ve never felt.<P>D&C, Therapist is on vacation this week. He isn't much help, however.<P>EC, I didn't have to search very hard, the hate is just bubbling out of me. I didn't exactly aspire to eloquence here, but I'll take the complement as a consolation for the pain. Thanks<P>Chirs, I guess I know that deep inside I'll not send it. I know where it will take us. Moreover, I also know I love OM too much to inflict this kind of unfair pain. I really have taken a view of him that, even in my opinion, is unfair and inaccurate. But I've got to do something with this rage.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by facing choices (edited August 24, 1999).]

FC,<P>I understand where you are very well. You really do love this guy, but you are choosing to go on without him. Now you must make up terrible things about him to convince yourself why you don't love him.<P>The problem is that you will come to a point in your life someday in the future when you will remember all the good you saw in him, how wonderful he made you feel, and how well he really did meet your needs. You will again realize that you are the one who *chose* to leave him and what you both had to offer each other. When that time comes, you will not be able to stop wondering how your life would now be if you had remained with him. Would your S be happier with the OM as his father? Would you be feeling the same unmet needs if you were still with the OM? The wondering will be intense.<P>That's why I disagree with using untruths to talk yourself into how terrible the OM is. You are only deceiving yourself in the end. <P>You have decided to stay with your H for whatever reasons you have, so you need to focus on those positives and go forward. Obviously, your marriage and your H edged out the OM as the preferred course. Focus on the reasons why.<p>[This message has been edited by BB (edited August 24, 1999).]

FC, I think BB has some good advice for you. If therapist is on vacation (they all go in August, don't they?), think about that.<P>Therapist is a He? Is that a good idea? Mine is female; I think that helps.

Facing Choices...<P>I've read this string...and your poem from yesterday. I'm concerned to say the least.<P>I'd say get a new counselor... a female...who might be able to get you to make a wiser choice. No matter what the MB crowd says, the OM has a legal right to have a say in the life of his son.<P>The amount of your emotional upheaval is apparent. I can't say that you are being honest about your feelings for your husband. I'd say you are still "gone" over OM...and I question your resolve to stay with your current Husband.<P>I'm not a believer in divorce...but I believe your heart is so entangled that you are doing neither man any good. Sending the letter would wound the other man deeply, and I'd advise against it.<P>You cannot get the OM out of your life by denying your true feelings or saying that you hate him. Hate is not the answer. You also can't be motivated in your life based on what people here say. You'll never be happy with the choices you make. I'm learning the hard way to not depend on the advice of others. It's only an opinion. In the end, you have to make a choice that is both moral and in the best interest of your son. Denying your son his real father cannot be in his best interest. There are plenty of blended families that work.<P>I once said in one of my other posts to you that your situation is so very complicated that no amount of amateur advice is going to help you settle the score.<P>I doubt you can give honestly any emotional support to your husband because you are not in love with him. You are entangled with the OM...and getting out of that entanglement will take expert counsel by an expert therapist who is committed to working with you and holding you accountable. I don't agree with kicking OM out of your son's life. I don't think it's right morally or legally. It's his son, and he has a right to see him. Working out the logistics might have to be done with an attorney.<P>I'm talking straight...cause I think you need not a cheering section, but an objective view point. I don't need you to agree with my opinion...cause it's only my opinion. I just want you to consider getting a therapist who can really help you do the work that you need to do on you. It's either that or you write a romance novel. <P>I sincerely hear your heart. I know you are hurting. I know you are confused. I know you are wanting to do the right thing. But which one of us has a right to tell you what is the right thing. The principles at this site are wonderful...and can be applied, but they are not Gospel...they are not absolute truth that has to be applied in every situation. They are not the laws that determine how we should live. They are guidelines.<P>I know what it's like to have my heart entangled and not know how to get out of it. And God sent someone who could speak directly to me. I know what it's like to be out of control...and God sent someone to help me get into control. <P>I think your emotions are in the "out of control" range...they are like you say, "raging scarlett." You need help to sort them out...not a cheering section.<P>I just want to encourage you that you are not alone. Don't base your decisions on the opinions written here. Prayerfully consider the course your life is on. Ask the Creator what He would have you do. Perhaps you're not ready for the OM or your husband. Perhaps you need a time out to work on you, then work on the marriage later. God can help you get control of the emotions that are raging. Man cannot, and you cannot...and hating is never the answer. It causes bitterness and long term destruction. Forgiveness breads life.<P>I care about you and I want to see you get healed and whole!<P>Take care my friend!<P>Ramy

FC:<P>I'm going to repeat the advice that I gave you before. I agree with Ramy that you probably need a new counselor. I don't think the male/female issue is a big one---I would (once again) advise that you call Steve.<P> <P>I know that I'm a broken record. But hey---you've got to be able to count on something...

Sorry the reply is long over due. I had the good fortune of starting back to work this week. I am a teacher and the summer afforded far too much free time for my mental well being. Anyway, with the start of school came some craziness, but I’m here to reply now. BTW, I posted this reply on the two “hate” posts for those who may look there instead of here. <P>About my hate for OM: As the post “I’ll hate him if it kills me” shows, I’ve managed to tap into some pretty powerful emotions centered on the anger from my pain in loving OM. I recently read that the term “hate” is derived from the Greek term meaning “grief stemming from loss.” As grieving the loss of a loved one involves an anger stage, I feel pretty healthy in my anger (as long as it does not last forever). I know my anger is of a forced nature, but the bottom line is that I have reached a point where I need to retreat and protect my heart. Loving OM was killing me, so hating him is what I have to do. Thought I do still love him, and the hate is manufactured, the hate is easier for me to take right now. My hate is pretty intense, as many of you noted, but I’ll manage with it okay.<P>Sweetpea.<BR>Well, at first your reply made me very angry at YOU! But then I decided that it was pretty good “hate” material and I let it seep into my heart. I adopted your opinions for a day or two and the anger and fury those opinions brought on fueled my letter of hate to OM. Thanks for your reply because it really has helped me to be angry and hateful toward OM. The fact is that I believe I need to hate him. Don’t be sorry for being blunt – it was very helpful this time. If you didn’t read my letter of hate in the other post, please do. I hope you don’t mind seeing some familiar thoughts there.<P>Fighter,<BR>Your advice to see OM, as a real person with faults is good, except here is how I’ve always felt about that: I loved his faults because his faults made him real to me. And if he was real, then I wasn’t dreaming! Sick, ugh. I’m in this pretty deep. I still think I need a reason to hate him. Actually, I think I need some time (and that is so hard for me to deal with) to get out of love with OM and to try and go back to H with my heart. Time, ugh now I’m telling myself that I need time. It seems to pass so slowly in recovery.<P>Cuckold,<BR>You said, “How can you hate someone who finally rained on the dry parched ground of your marital desert?” Ironic word choice, Cuckold. I once wrote a letter to OM and in it I wrote, “into my dry and empty heart, a barren wasteland, you brought sweet rain.”<BR>You suggested not trying to “learn” to hate him. I wish I didn’t have to learn that, but I do. I have to choose to hate him, choose to love H, and choose to be away from OM and with H. NONE of those choices come easily or naturally for me. They are all acts of reason and will. I hope someday the feeling of love for H reenters my heart.<P>Tina,<BR>Choosing to be with H, at this time, is, as you urged, the last 100% effort. No, I’ve not come to the place where I can give 100% YET! The only way I will get there is by being here and working at it, little by little. H is far from giving 100% either. I am giving him the time to get there too. This is not to say I don’t grow frustrated, or feel pain and anger in the process of getting there, but I am here and trying. You wisely suggested that I try focusing on his needs and the baby’s needs, rather than mine. I focus A LOT on the baby’s needs. I am not really able to meet H’s needs very well at this time. In fact, part of what lead to the affair was years of meeting H’s needs and having my needs go unmet. My “need bank” was totally tapped – bone dry when I met OM. I just flat out gave up and stopped meeting H’s needs because I was tired of doing that. I know I need to try again now. My “giver” just isn’t here. As a matter of fact, my “taker” even finds it hard to be here. I am saying that I find it just as hard to take from H as I find it to give. I don’t really want his attention or affection because I don’t believe or trust it right now. This is going to take some time. I am trying to meet my H’s need for sex and conversation. Though I don’t enjoy either with him. Conversations with him are shallow and “small talk.” He does not want to talk about anything emotional. When I have sex with him, I am going through the motions. I allow him the “pleasure” he needs in sexual “release” but that is about all I can offer. He isn’t a very good lover so I don’t really care to have sex with him, but if it works for him, I can service him. I don’t have any desire to make love to him because I feel about as close to him as I do to a total stranger. I know that sounds terribly shallow, but it is his need, not mine. I need to make love. We don’t do that; we have sex. Always have, always will. I’ve tried making love to him; he is about as good a lover as a wet blanket. It is terribly unsatisfying to “make love” to a man who isn’t a passionate lover.<P>SHA,<BR>I appreciate your encouragement. You are a very different man than my H is. You have done wonderful things for your w. Most wonderful is your desire to really talk and heal with her. My H is so closed up; he is so protected, that I can’t get close to him. He hasn’t tried to do the things you have done. He does not want to just “give” as you do. He wants to be given to. That is how it has been for many years, and I have accepted that he will never change. Let me give you an example – kind of personal – but very to the point. Last week, H started making advances toward me (remember we had a moratorium on sex). I gave in because I never say no. However, he said he just wanted to please me and make me feel good. “Okay,” I said, “then please go and shave.” He did. Then I asked him to please perform oral sex. He does not like to do that and he isn’t good at it. I told him, in explicit detail, exactly how to do it (I’ve told him 1,000 times before). Finally he did it right (of course since then he is back to his old unsatisfying way of doing it). Anyway, I “reached the Promised Land” and then said, “H, that was great! If you really wanted to please me, and it wasn’t just for you, then I’d really appreciate it if you would just put your arms around me and we could go to sleep.” He did. I HAVE NEVER DONE THAT BEFORE! Of course there was no discussion of the moratorium, and the next night he was firm with expectations of getting his. He always gets his “O” and I usually don’t’ (enter the wash machine). He seems disappointed that I don’t enjoy it, but it sure as hell doesn’t stop him from getting his, and he easily gives up on me. He doesn’t ask how I feel about sex; he doesn’t listen when I tell him what I like. I stopped telling him how to touch and please me because I felt like I was giving directions and he wouldn’t listen. Gee, just like a man, he won’t take directions, let alone stop and ask for them, and god knows he won’t follow the freaking map! Sorry, I just vented there.<P>Rob, I guess I’m not really in touch with the concept of Satan. I suppose I also feel that God has hardened his heart to me and that I am in Satan’s possession. I feel like I am so far from God. I have taken a view of God as an evil, angry being who revels in giving me desires and in denying me what I want. Come on, if this god is so wonderful, why did he create people who want things they can’t have? Why did he create evil – or a devil? If he didn’t create these things, then who did? I thought he had control over everything? If he is up there, if he has “control” why does he let evil things happen to good people? Why, when I call to him does he refuse to listen? Where the hell is he? If God is so “loving” then where was he all of those months that I, on my face, shouted out for him to please help me and to guide me? Where is he in the midst of all of the others on this board who are crying out to him for comfort and he denies it? Why would a good god make people who have the natural propensity toward evil? Why doesn’t he just squelch out evil? Of course I know you don’t have all of the answers to these questions, but they are the questions that haunt me when I think of surrendering to this “God.”<P>Faith, hope, love,<BR>You advised, “God can take your anger, just don't turn your back on the One who can help you.” I suppose I could use a heap of prayers here. As you can see from the paragraph prior, my faith is all but gone. I am really moving to an emotional place where I don’t want anything to do with God. Prayers appreciated.<P>Tamis,<BR>I’ve become a bit anti anti-depression. I went on Zoloft for a while. At first it made me feel giddy. Then it annihilated my sex drive. Then I went on Valium. It made me a Zombie, it affected my son (still breast-feeding) and it also killed the sex drive. Also, on the Zoloft, I was so happy and friendly to everyone that I sent out some bad messages to my students (adult male Marines). Being friendly and happy (giddy from meds), made me appear flirty and that was not good. Marines, who rarely see a woman, get turned on if you smile, even if it isn’t at them. Anyway, for those and other reasons, I am not on anti- depression meds. I do know that I am depressed and I am hoping that time and therapy will help.<P>Shoni,<BR>I am starting to think that it is impossible for H to meet my needs. I think that I have very big needs and his ability to meet them is very weak. It is a double whammy. I wonder what one does when they know their spouse cannot meet their needs? Settle? Leave? I fear my tendency is to do both at the same time. Settle, and keep my “life” here, but leave with my heart (and in the case of OM, my body as well). I wonder if I am sick. You know, emotionally sick in some way. Does your H meet your needs? <P>Janice,<BR>I feel just like you do! What’s an ICQ?<P>Maya,<BR>I appreciate your posts, they always make me think because I know you have “been there.” I think I need to read your profile again because I seem to have forgotten the details of your story. You have been around for me since the very first post and I deeply appreciate that. When did it start to ease up for you? Do you love your H again? Do you love him as much as you loved OM?<P>K,<BR>Do you get a kickback from Harley? Does he give you one free session for each new client you send him? =) I don’t really think I want to call Steve. I didn’t like the phone call we had on the radio show and I don’t feel comfortable with the idea of phone sessions. Also, H refuses to talk to a counselor. Also, Dr. H has very strong feelings about affairs involving children and I don’t agree with him on the issue of keeping the biological father out of the child’s life. I absolutely do not agree with that.<P>BB,<BR>You have clearly articulated my fears about my feelings for OM. But, I don’t know what else do but hate him. I am having a difficult time focusing on the positives in my marriage because they just aren’t enough to make me happy. Part of the problem in my marriage is my love for OM. I am preoccupied with that love and so I am trying to either forget or hate OM. I feel I have to be deliberate in forcing him out of my heart. If I don’t do that I’ll love him forever and then I’ll never be able to be settled with H again. This is really difficult!<P>Sad4now,<BR>What is an ICQ and how can I contact someone that way?<BR>