I would just like to get some thoughts.....

My WH has still lived at home with us since D-Day. That was 2 months ago. However, his A has not ended. He seems to be "in limbo" and doesn't know what he wants - us or OW. My question - does the chance of him leaving change (increase or decrease) the longer he stays home?

I want to believe that every day he stays home improves our chances of working out the marriage. However, sometimes I think being away from OW for longer makes going to her seem more attactive.

Also, can I improve our marriage and make home seem more attractive while the A is still ongoing? Or, do I just have to try and survive while waiting to see how it plays out....?

I would appreciate any advice.

Thanks, WTW

Dear WTW,

I was so sorry to read your story. I don't know how you manage to do Plan A, while he continues seeing the OW. I think that Dr. Harley is right that separation from the lover is the most important foundation to start working on the marriage. My husband had an A, too, my children are about the same age as yours (my story is under "pain tearing me apart"). For me it was the most painful experience in my life. He told me the day after he kissed her and her boyfriend interrupted them. The next day he was a changed man and ever since he only affirmed his love for me. I don't know how much I can believe him and every day I live with the fear that he will lie to me and see her again (he says he never loved her and doesn't want to see her ever again). I feel that it also had some influence that I am loving with him, but at the same time VERY clear that this is his LAST chance to be with me. One more lie, one more step in the wrong direction and I leave him. I read somewhere on this forum from a WS that he/she wished the BS had been more affirmative in insisting on total separation from the lover. He/she wrote "then I would have ended the A earlier". I wish you all the best- and every marriage is different but reading your posts I can't help the feeling that you are trying part of Dr. Harley's Plan A without its foundation. My husband says that he had somehow lost his love for me through his depression and his love returned stromger than ever when he was so afraid that I would leave him after he admitted the A. He still lives with this fear and he shows me his love like never before. I think your husband needs this wake-up call too. He takes you for granted. And one more thing: look the best you can...to impress him but also for your own self-confidence.
We're here with you. All the best

Thanks for your thoughts. I would like someone to help clarify some of Harley's principals for me. My understanding from his books is that Plan A/Plan B are intended to be used while the A is ongoing. They are not intended to start only with recovery. Recovery cannot start until the A ends, and I understand that Dr. Harley insists that the A end quickly and completely. However, my WH chooses not to end his A now, and I have no control over that decision. I can only work on the things that I can control, right? Isn't that what Plan A is about? I am definately not ready to go to Plan B - I still have lots of love for my WH and I feel like setting too many boundaries will push him over the fence the wrong way. If I make my side of the fence attractive (Plan A), then the hope is that he will eventually decide to come back to me. Right?

I read in someone's post an analogy about not pushiing the WH over the fence, instead work on eroding the fence from underneath. Does that make sense?

I want to believe that my WH wants to work on the marriage deep in his heart. Why else would he stay with me and the kids? But, on the other hand, if that is what he wanted, it seems that he would have the sense to end his A. I am really beginning to see how it is an addiction for him. I have noticed that when he "misses" her, he is down and pessimistic about our future. But, when he has seen her (i.e. gotten his "fix") he is happy to come home, and is positive about our M. What is up with that?

Also, I am starting to think that I am just going to have to wait until the A dies naturally. Does anyone have any insight about how long it might take? And, will it even happen? There have been cracks in the A since D-Day, but for now they seem to have "made-up". Is this a cycle that just has to continue until they don't have any love left?

{{{Willing To Wait}}}}

I could have used your screen name when I joined MB back in January. I was so willing to wait and do what ever it took to save my M. I chose the name Forgiver because that is what I wanted to do, forgive my H and work on our M. But my H "didn't have it in him at the time" to work on our M. You can see my story under Please Tell Me What to Say!!- I think it is on page 2, I havn't posted in awhile.

About Plan A. I was in Plan A for awhile but the difference between you and I is that after Dday, my H left and went to another country. Your H is still in the house with you. He is a Cake-eater. You are fulfilling some of his EN while the OW is filling other EN. So he has the best of both worlds. Why change his situation?

One main point of Plan A you must understand is that it is NOT MENT TO WIN BACK YOUR SPOUSE!!! Plan A reminds you to be respectful and nonjudgemental towards your spouse, no LBing. You are polite to them and amicable like friends living in the house together but you are not to kiss his a** or try to sway his decision forcefully.

Plan A is for you to focus on yourself and and make yourself stronger. Focus on your children. Get active! Go out and do things together with your children! Invite H along but do not let your hurt show if he declines. Do not depend on your H. Show him you can get along and function without him. If you need affection, smother your children with love and enjoy them.

Go out and do things on your own. Keep in touch with friends. Be independent. Take up a hobby. You can change your appearance, cut your hair, get a new style, buy a new outfit. Do not let your H see you down and depressed for awhile. It will only foster the control he may have over you. He will see you sad and lonely and torn up about his A and think to himself that you can not function with out him and you would never leave him so you are helpless to change your situation.

It is very important that you make it clear to your H that you do not condone his A. You can take responsibility for your part in your M that led up to the A. But you will not be blamed for the A. That was his choice. Look at yourself from your h's perspective as a mate. What area could you improve? For me communication was an issue -as was being defensive. I chose to work on those aspects of myself. Not just with my H but with everyone. Work on yourself. Again, not to win your H back but to make yourself a better partner, hopefully to your H. But he may miss his chance, mine did. Plan A for as long as you can but do not let it go on forever. Only you know how long you can be treated this way by your H. Actions speak volumes.

I do not recall if you read SAA. But read it if you can. Really try to follow Plan A as a guide to make yourself stronger. Your h should notice the differences he sees in you but do not be too quick to accept his compliments. Keep your guard up and protect yourself. Do not be cold or defensive, more mysterous and in control. Become a mystery to your H.

My H's A started in April of 2001, when he went away to vet school in another country. He started 2 weeks after getting to school. I found out about the A on New Year's eve. I Plan A'd with the hopes of seeing some results but have not had any. Little glimmers here and there that would keep me going for a few weeks. Then I realized he was just leading me on. I went to plan B this past May and have not heard from my H since. I know the A will die a natural death someday. At this point I can not get past the hurt, betrayal and resentment I feel for my H. I was willing to wait forever and so whatever was needed. But I could not do it alone. After going to Plan B to preserve the love I still had for my H and to protect myself I realized our situation is too far gone. He has too many issues to resolve. I have too much to give butI am weary and do not have the love or energy it will take to help my H. He will be in another country for 2 more years going to school. I do not see any hope for him or our R at this point. But it took going through Plan A and Plan B for me to realize that. Hopefully your H will come to his senses while you are still willing to do anything. I can't tell you how long this will go on. Every case is individual. For me it has been over a year. Others have gone on for 2 or more years. It all depends. Good luck. At least he is home with you.

I'm sorry to go on for so long, I just wanted to really drive the point home that plan A is for YOU, not your H. Please look out for yourself and stay strong!
Forgiver

<small>[ August 08, 2002, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Forgiver ]</small>

Just to clarify WTW and IP; Plan A is best done while the WS is still home, even if the A is on-going. Why, because you have more time with WS, more opprotunities to make &LB deposits, and show WS your ability to change, improve, become a better, more attractive spouse.

Yes, it seems "odd" that we'd do this while the A is on-going, but remember that we have no choice in the matter, unless we throw them out, and we must work on improving ourselves regardless.

Then, after x period of time in Plan A, if the A has not ended, and the BS feels his/her $LB becoming empty, then we consider Plan B. Again, Plan B is not designed to "get the WS back" (although it can have that side-effect) but is meant to preserve the remaining love the BS has for the WS while the A reached its end.

What x period of time is, well, that depends on each individual. Some people say you should Plan A at least 6 months, others more, others less. But you are the only one who can really decide that. While you are able to be with the WS, make $LB deposits, improve yourself, while the A is active, you should do it. Plan B should be considered when your love bank is getting close to empty, or you can no longer tolerate the WS's on-going A in your face.

I stayed home with my WW for 11+ months since DDay, all the time with an on-going affair. At first I didn't even know about MB or any of this, but then discovered it and did a solid 5 months of Plan A, and just now went to Plan B...could not take it anymore, and the A continues...but, Plan Aing for that time has allowed me to be stronger, and be ready to move on if I have to...I no longer fear losing her, and although I'll still try to get my M back, I'll be OK even if I don't.

Be brave, be strong, be firm...you WILL make it!

As I mentioned in my other thread, I am having a very bad week. I need to refocus on what I am trying to do here. The comments you all have posted are a big help. A few things I still need help with....

I have read SAA, HNHN, LB, and many others. My goal is for my husband's A to end and to rebuild our marriage and keep our family together. However, right now I am the only working on that goal. It is so incredibly hard, as most of you already know. And, I feel like I have no control over the situation that I want to change.

Plan A - about me, right? I understand that I need to focus on myself. But, how can I do that when I am afraid of what will happen between WH and OW when I am out "doing my thing"? It seems that leaving them to continue their A while I go on with my life is counter-productive to my goal.

I still love my WH so much and I cannot imagine my life without him. It hurts so much each time he sees or talks to OW, but I am a long way from having an empty love bank. So, according to Harley, Plan A is still for me, right?

I guess I just need some clear-headed thinking to help me sort this out. My judgement is too emotionally-charged this week......

Thanks, WTW

Dear spacecase and WTW,

sure you can do plan A while the A is ongoing according to Dr. Harley. But as the BS don't you set up yourself for incredible heartbreak. I am having the toughest time of my life these days and that is four weeks after d-day and with my husband remorseful and loving and the A over (hopefully...). By doing plan A with A ongoing you are supposed to deplete the love bank in case the A is not ended, or you are ready to do Plan B-but that doesn't seem to happen for you, WTW. You CAN influence what you think about your WH...right now you are excusing his behavior and you are so afraid that he will abandon you and your children. I felt the same about the abandonment. It is the WORST feeling... but I NEVER excused his behavior. It is bad and selfish what our husbands did/are doing. Get enough strength together to see him critical. Work on yourself-I lost 14 pounds of post pregnancy weight with this. I had my hair done. I am going to the beach to work on that tan. Once you feel good, looking at yourself in the mirror, you'll have a different attitude towards him. Be like a lover for him. I put away my wedding ring on d-day (amor y fidelidad-right!). Now when we go out everybody thinks I am his stunning girlfriend (It has been an interesting experience to say the least). Spend time together just the two of you (have a babysitter or grandma or friend take the kids). You CAN change things. At one point your husband loved you more than anything in the world. That was when he decided to marry you. Get back to that old you!