I went to see H over the weekend. He DID allt he right things...took me to nice places to eat, candle light tour of the mansions, etc. Was affectionate. Very hungry for sex with me. No OW in the picture. She was out of the picture months ago before he moved. <P>He can't/won't say he loves me. My problem ... I feel myself pulling away. I have a situation that three weeks ago I would have picked up the phone to call him and get his opinion/support or just to discuss it. I didn't want to call him. when I got home Sunday night, he wanted me to call and let him know I got home ok. I didn't even want to call him. We have plans for new year's...I feel he is intruding. He wants to go with me to my mother's for Christmas Eve. Again -- I feel he doesn't need to go.<P>All these feelings have converged on me since I started driving home Sunday night. I felt like I had been shot out of the sky when he couldn't even tell me he cares about me, he loves me, etc. What am I doing? He keeps saying "when you have vacation time next year, you can come down one day and we'll do this or that... he has no plan for us to be man and wife again. I know he is confused and has not plan about anything. I'm fastly withdrawing and not caring. <P>This morning I thought to myself about how many tylenol pm it would take to do myself in. Is it the season? Is it rejection? What is wrong with me? I want to love him through this, but I need someone to love me through it as well.

Janie,<BR>I think we all hit this point after a while. He has not made in love deposits. Maybe it is time to do plan B I know the ow is out of the picture but instead of saying when you leave her say insted when you decide that you want to work on our marriage and can say I love you again. Right now he seems to think he will always have you but he doesn't have to do anything to keep you. He hasn't woke up to what he has done to you. He need to see that you will not be there if there is no love, you can't do it all and because of this you are losing your love for him. Now is the time to step back out of the picture for awhile and it seems to me you are ready to do that. You have done everything you can, now it is his turn. Put the ball in his court with this type of plan B. It will keep that love bank from going completely bust.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Janie,<P>I have responded to your posts in the past and I have followed your story. I feel that there is still great hope for your marriage. I want to give you so much advise, but I realize that I really don't know what to say. <P>I have never used Harley, but I have certainly read the responses by those that have used him. They are very enthusiastic. I would strongly urge you to set up a counseling session with him. Here is why. You and Your H are in a very tenious situation. The affair is over, but love units are not being exchanged in a meaningful way. Yet it is verly clear that you two love each other and more importantly enjoy each others company. In this later respect you are way ahead of many married couples who haven't been through an affair or separation.<P>There is so much hope and yet you (and I suspect your H) are very conflicted about what to do. Don't listen to someone like me. Get an expert who has dealt with this situation over and over. You two are close to making it and I think it would be the best money you ever spent.<P>Please do this. Bring in the Pro's: you two are so close.<P>God Bless You and Your Family

Maybe that is what I need to do. However, I have to hold it together for the holidays, not for us, but for the kids. They will both be home, he will be home for a week (at his mom's house, so I won't be with him all the time). I guess what is so confusing is that I didn't have these feelings until wham -- all at once. I guess you can only be shot down so many times before you can't pick yourself right back up. If he could at least express some feelings of love, remorse, want to work on it -- anything -- I could live with it, but as of now I feel my emotions draining right out of my body.

I attend individual counseling with two different therapists (sometimes I talk with the lady, and sometimes the man -- just depends on my mood.) They have two different personalities, but have the same advice. They feel I am enabling him to continue his behavior but not forcing him to make any decisions. I've been okay with everything basically until Sunday night. I guess when he made reference to "next year when you get a day of vacation...." which means he has no intent of making a commitment to restore the marriage. I guess he is satisfied with a full weekend of sex once a month and maybe a phone call once in between.

Janie, I realize that you need to keep things together for the holidays and maybe something will finally turn the light on in H's head. BUt I think you are enabling him My opinion. He doesn't want to make that committment again. I can't remember is he in Midlife crisis sure sounds like it. BUt i feel like you need to step away because you are in danger of having your love bank completely overdrawn. Maybe you stepping back for awhile he will realize certain things. I am not really helping I keep getting interupted by my grandson so I guess I will just give up today.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Hi Janie,<P>Wow, can I relate to what you are feeling!! I am feeling the exact same way. I have become numb, to almost every feeling, especially as it relates to H. You're right about "how long can you keep getting knocked down or beaten up before there are no feelings left"? <P>In my situation, H moved out on Dec 1, to be closer to OW, & I told him that I felt no contact would be best. But, instead, he weasels his way back in last Wednesday night, throws me a few crumbs of hope, then I don't hear from him again since Sunday afternoon. Even though he said he would call on Monday.<P>Perhaps for you, a Plan B is in order, as Diana suggests. But, even better, see about a counseling session with Harley. Plan B is for YOUR protection. Talking about those Tylenol is NOT a good thing. You do know that attempting an OD on Tylenol will destroy your liver, don't you???? Please, please get some help. YOU have a whole lot of living left to do.<P>Keep us posted. We do care.<BR>

I'm too chicken **** to do anything with the tylenol . My H won't do counseling and yes, he is 45 years old. I have a session tonight and I'm sure I'll do some unloading and will feel better. <P>I'm also trying to deal with another personal situation. My son has been involved with a girl that I had hoped would "just go away" by now after he went to school. She is in foster care and removed herself and has been going from friend to friend. That got old and foster parents wouldn't let her come back. To make matters worse, she is on probation for attacking her mom's boyfriend with scissors (she was placed in social services because mother chose the boyfriend over her) during what I believe was a sexual assault. There was a warrant out for probation violation. Soooo, my son is all to pieces at school trying to take exams. He asked me to take her in until paperwork can be completed and she can go back to KY with her father. I have agreed to do this and she has been a perfect house guest to this point. My son is really upset because he knows once she goes back to KY from NC he will probably never see her again, which for him is probably for the best. She also quit school and is going to have to go to a community college to get HS equivalency. My son is a smart kid with a bright future and I hate feeling like he is above her, but she has screwed up every chance she has been given. Part of the reason I might have started feeling so badly against my H was because son asked me to take her in and I became aware of this situation when I took him back to campus on my way home. <P>At any rate, I told my son we would have a great Christmas and she could stay until 26th, at which time paperwork should be complete and her dad can come get her.<P>Thanks for listening.

Janie - I'll just limit my comments to what you said about your feelings towards your H. Is it possible you've simply fallen out of love with him? Because it certainly doesn't sound like you want to see him any more or be around him. I can't say as I blame you, given what he's put you through. And maybe it would be better just to acknowledge this for both of you and tell him that, as far as you're concerned, your relationship with him is over? And not feel guilty about it. Give it the old Plan B approach. And remember - Tylenol is a terrible way to go! Regards, blessings, hugs,<P>--Wex

I'm not on the same page at all with Wexwill.<BR>In fact, it sounds to me like you do love your husband, and want to love him. It also sounds like he loves you, but is having his cake and eating it too. But situations can certainly bury love in a hurry, even if the flame still burns somewhere deep within. <P>I know how you feel, I really do. I am somewhat you, except that it's my wife who may want her cake and eat it too. I love her dearly, but each day that goes by that she doesn't express love for me takes something away. It's me that protects myself for allowing any moment in time to occur that says "that's it, we're at rock-bottom and I don't feel anything for you anymore". Besides, that would be a lie anyway, no matter how much my subconscious tried to bury the feelings. <P>I suspect the same for you. It's just that sometimes it's easier to give up. Please don't. You had and can have again something very special.<P>Also, you implied that you want to work on things not for you as a couple, but for the kids. In my opinion, any reason to work on the relationship is a good one, but working on you as a couple is really important. In my case, I've told my wife that the kids are not a good enough reason (we both love them dearly, so don't take me wrong here), but that we as a couple are the foundation of the family, and we as a couple is where we started and are what will keep life and happiness flourishing in the family and among ourselves. <P>It's hard, but don't quit - not just yet<BR>anyway.<P>I'm glad you're seeing a counselor, that's a<BR>great thing to do - get expert advice.<P>All the best

Hi Janie,<P>I cannot remember your whole story, so you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong. Did you say that H has moved away for a job, but has cut it off with OW? If so, I'm wondering if perhaps he is reluctant to recommit right now because he is going through withdrawal over OW? Could be the reason he is acting the way he is.<P>The other thing I wanted to mention is what I did in my situation which has shown to have had the most positive impact so far. When H moved out, I was beside myself, & I said a few things that gave him the 'impression' that I was going to file for D. I told him that I thought it best we have no contact. I had the locks rekeyed. I have kept my distance. No phone calls, no questions, no demands etc. I bought an airline ticket to go home for Christmas. Basically gave him the impression that I was moving forward with my life. Well, he did not honor my 'no-contact' request, & we spent a few evenings together last weekend. I was reserved. Not cold, not unpleasant, not nasty. I actually came across as quite calm, relaxed & happy with myself. But, I did not initiate any affection. When he hugged me, I hugged back, when he reached for my hand, I held his, etc. I think this knocked him off balance a bit. Since then, he has called me twice, said he would call tomorrow, and actually said "Love you" as he was hanging up today. First time in months!! Essentially what I did, I did for my own sanity. I just put up a wall because I don't know how much more I can let him hurt me. We're definitely not out of the woods yet. Thought I would just share some things that seem to be helping for me.

Janie, a draining lovebank is the result of how he treats you. Been there, am there.<P>I know during my last separation I spent a lot of time thinking about exactly what I would have if my did come back. There were times I didn't think I did want him back. When he said he wanted to move home, I made him wait. I was right to do so, as he's back to not knowing if the marriage is what he wants. I feel VERY angry at this new let-down and the real & likely breaking of his promises yet again. I'm doing my best to not lovebust with my anger--deal with it in a respectful, adult manner. After all, I'm realistic (some times ) I know reconciliation is going to be difficult with 20 months of betrayal, lies, deceit, anger & hurt to heal.<P>As you may remember, I wasn't too good at Plan B, but in hindsight, it was the right move. Can't remember if you've read Divorce Busting by Weiner-Davis, but if you can't do Plan B, try the 180 or Last Resort (I see that as what I did). <P>You also need to decide if you still want the marriage. It's tough to put in this much effort and then begin wondering if you're done.<P>All my best,<P>------------------<BR>Lor<BR>"Do not get tired of doing what is right, for after awhile you will reap a harvest of blessings if you do not get discouraged and give up. (Gal 6:9)<P><BR>

What is the 180 or last resort? Similar to Plan B?? Thanks Lor. You and I seem to have married long lost personality twins .

Janie, I've put all my relationship books in some very safe, forgotten place , secret from the kids. But I'll give it a whirl from memory.<P>The web site, for better info, is: <A HREF="http://www.weiner-davis.com" TARGET=_blank>www.weiner-davis.com</A> <P>A 180 involves reacting differently than you usually do.<P>For example: He's late for supper, you usually whine and complain that he doesn't appreciate the things you do, but you have kept supper for him or make him something new. Instead, supper is off the table and you are busy. You welcome him home with a smile. (something like that anyway)<P>Last Resort is Plan B, only without the letter & although you don't contact, you accept their contact in a limited way. You're always busy, on your way to somewhere, upbeat, loving life.<P>I hope I didn't muff up DB too much. I highly recommend the book.

Janie,<P>From Lor's description, sounds like I've been doing Last Resort without even knowing it. I have seen a little progress, but still have a ways to go.