All,

On Sunday, I found out about an affair that wife had with a "close friend" of both of ours. I confronted her immediately about this with the evidence and she confessed. In days before, I could sense problems and she even denied it the day before I found out when I asked. There were numerous signs, I suspected all along, and now I finally know. We've been talking a lot over the past few days about where to go now and what to do, but I'm not sure right now.

I have not attempted to contact my former friend, and he has made no attempt to contact me.

There are a few events scheduled in upcoming days that he will most likely be at, including a graduation party for my wife. I have stated that if he attends, I will not. I can't go and sit there without the situation becoming ugly because I am so angry right now.

She insists that it was broken off a few months ago, but they still keep in close contact. It may be ongoing, I just don't know.

How do you regain trust? I think that the marriage should be attempted to be saved, but at what point to you cut your losses and move on? I know that Biblically, I have every right to leave without guilt.

I told a close friend I went to college with, and he is furious with the two of them. He tells me that I don't need to put up with this and I should go because the marriage wasn't really a marriage (he's Catholic, I'm not) if the bond was not honored. He has been very supportive and proven to be a very honorable friend.

I also have informed two of my supervisors of the situation, because I want them to know that I am going through problems. There has been and probably will continue to be a degradation of work performance and they need to know why. They have even offered to recommend counselors and legal recommendations if those avenues are taken.

I'm hurt and I'm scared of what will happen. I still do love her, but I do not want to compete anymore because I am emotionally drained. EA was one thing, but a PA is something that I don't know if I can overcome, knowing she was with someone else in our home and who knows where else. I started plan A back in Jan. when she said she was unhappy. She says it went from March to May and now it is just friendship and she doesn't want to tear our group of friends apart. I suspect that they suspect something is going on, and would not be surprised if informed.

I just want this to be over, and I think she does too. I've offerred marriage counseling, and will go regardless if she does or not. If she doesn't or attends these activities within the next 2 weeks with him there, I think I know what I need to do. I will be able to sleep, knowing I gave it my best.

We're both 23 and have no kids. This is the only affair that I know of.

Any thoughts / prayers would be appreciated.

There are very straightforward guidelines for how to handle exactly where you are. If they are still in contact, then the affair is ongoing, perhaps as an EA but it is still an affair.

Until the OM is out of your lives there is no chance to restore your marriage.

What have you read at this site? You should be reading all you can in the articles and the Q/A about infidelity and what to do when you find out. Right now, that will be far more valuable to you than posting on the forum.

Not that I'm trying to tell you to get lost <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but information and knowledge are your best weapons right now.

Also, if you can, order Surviving An Affair from the bookstore link above. Depending on where you are in the country, it will come in about a week.

It's hard to say if you need Plan A or Plan B without knowing more information. So far it sounds as if you are doing all the right things. Recovery is hard work, the path is very narrow, there's not much room for alternatives, but it CAN be done.

I can help you with either of those if you like.

Cerri

Oops, it's late and I just re read your post and see that you have been in Plan A for a while. Talk to me about how you decided to do that. What your Plan looked like and how she reacted.

Plan A will not save your marriage, it will not restore love. It's only a strategy for removing a spouse from a lover or pulling him/her out of deep withdrawal. It should have a specified time limit at which point you re evaluate and decide if you need to go to Plan B.

Once the A has ended, and that includes no contact, then you'll need firm recovery plan in order to save the M. Most marriages don't end because of affairs, they end because after the affair the underlying problems are not addressed and the conditions that led to the affair in the first place are not changed.

It sounds like you might be close to Plan B time. Throwing in the towel and walking away, while strictly speaking is ok, I'd like to encourage you to take the time to go through all the steps before you do that.

Cerri

Hi Hoping4best,

Sorry that you are in so much pain and welcome to MB.

It sounds like you are heading in the right direction. Don't make any hasty decisions right now regarding divorce... You have plenty of time to do that and it's best done after you've had a chance to settle down some and reflect on what YOU really want....

Read all that you can here at MB and get a copy of Torn Asunder by Dave Carder...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

hoping4best,

I am so sorry to hear what you are going through. It must be all the more frustrating since you have already been in Plan A for months.

There is one comment you made that I'm a bit confused about (that worries me as I pray for my H to forgive me): </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that the marriage should be attempted to be saved, but at what point to you cut your losses and move on? I know that Biblically, I have every right to leave without guilt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The topic of forgiveness came up in another thread, "How many Christians have oral sex?" . Here's a verse that really gave me hope that my H, a Christian with a very Christian family, may be able to get over his anger and resentment towards me and find forgiveness in his heart:

Be gentle and ready to forgive; never hold grudges. Rember the Lord forgave you, so you must forgive others. COLOSSIANS 3:13

So here is my question to you: what part of the bible makes you feel that you "have every right to leave without guilt"?

I am certainly not trying to say it should be easy to forgive someone for betraying you (especially when you doubt that the A is even over yet). However, if/when your wife gets to the point where she ends the affair, and can ask you and God for forgiveness, then perhaps you should consider forgiving her and saving the marriage?

Sorry to go off on a selfish tangent, but this has really been on my mind lately, and your post struck a chord in my heart.

I think you have a right to request that this OM be told to NOT show up at your wife's graduation. Tell her so. What she chooses to do about that will help you to decide what to do next perhaps.

I will keep you in my prayers.

Take care,

Jen

All,

Thank you to those who replied. I am feeling much better today than I have over the last few days, maybe because yesterday I have been talking about it with people.

I know that I want to forgive her. I think that I can, but I need to know that she is truly sorry for what she has done. I really don't think that she is because she seems more concerned that I don't tell anyone than about how I feel. The past seven months have been filled with lies upon lies. It is very difficult to trust when I have asked for the truth repeatedly, and now the big picture of what has happened all along makes sense.

The reason I feel I can walk away without guilt is because I feel that I have done everything I can to save the marriage and she has not wanted to do anything. Marital unfaithfulness is listed as grounds for divorce, maybe that is why I feel like there wouldn't be guilt. I know I need to forgive. I will try, but I don't know that I'm required to take her back.

If I knew that she would change, if I knew she would not attempt to contact him, and if I could get over my own feelings of hurt and pain, I would probably take her back.

Everyone screws up at some point in life. She has been/is screwing up right now. I screwed up by not showing her the proper amount of appreciation and conversation, but she pulled the trigger on the affair. She was planting and watering the seeds for the affair before she told me she was unhappy. I immediately bought His Needs, Her Needs, started plan A, and offered to go to counseling. She blew me off at this time.

If I knew her intentions were good, I would gladly accept her, but I just don't trust them right now.

Jen, your post strikes a chord in me also, because you may be having feelings that my wife may be having. I'm not sure what your entire situation is, but from my perspective, the forgiveness and willingness to continue can only come if intentions are good. Otherwise, over time, I will be able to forgive, but feel justified in my decision. I am not going to do anything hasty yet, but you are correct about the graduation party.

Her intentions will probably be revealed then. I have already told her that if he comes, I will not. I'm sure that I'm LBing, but it is so hard not to right now. It's probably better to say that I won't be there than to make a huge scene when I see him. Any advice on this?

Hi Hoping4best,
You have more company than you could ever imagine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I just wanted to say...she needs to cut off all contact with him. She should be much more concerned with healing her marriage, than "breaking up the group of friends." She should 'uninvite' him from her graduation party, as a show of respect to you (in my humble opinion).

Since this is Marriage Builders I know most (including me!) BS here are not giving up after discovering infidelity. I don't advocate any BS to run away instantly after being cheated on in marriage. But I also don't think anyone should judge a person as "wrong" to leave their marriage when they discover their spouse has cheated, ESPECIALLY if the BS has always been faithful. For some it may just be too much. In my life I've heard people criticizing BS who leave their marriage after discovery of an Affair, and that is just not right. Neither party can be perfect in a marriage but if only one person breaks a sacred vow, and a divorce ensues, don't blame the BS!
(I'm not saying ANYONE on this board has done this- I just needed to vent! Thanks!)

Thank you for all of your support and input. My mind is going in circles and I just wish I could get away for a few days and think things through without any of this on my mind. It's been eating away for months and months and I don't know how much more I can bear.

I just talked to her and she's worried about weekend plans and what people will say if I'm not around and they ask questions. I told her that there is a self-respect issue if I just go hang out with everybody and pretend nothing is wrong. I think that if they ask questions, it might be a good time for her to get some perspective and see the lie she is trying to cover.

If I knew I was throwing in the towel right away, I would not be here seeking advice. I've mostly read a lot of postings and there are such a wide variety of perspectives here. I recommended her to read articles on this subject because the problem won't just go away. I hope she does.

I'm very sad right now. I just want my wife and I to live happily. She is a good woman, but she got caught up in a fantasy land. I only hope she will soon see what is going on. Then we can work on things.

I feel your pain, as I had 'proof beyond a reasonable doubt' of my WWs A. I'm still plan A'ing it, and will continue to do so until I can no longer handle it. My WW still sees him everyday at work, and has lunch with him 2-3 times per week. I appreciate that my WW is being honest about her still seeing him (as I have not caught her in one lie that I know of since she confessed....I've been looking). However, in my WWs eyes, there is nothing wrong with just being 'friends' with him. She told me that she enjoys being with him and that I shouldn't force her to end her friendship (I could with the proof I have). My WW and I are getting along really well, even though I go through a tremendous amount of pain everyday. I am taking care of her needs as she is taking care of mine. I hope that at some point, she wakes up from her 'fog' and realizes that she will need to end it all. I know my WW is scared. She's afraid that at some point in the future that I will throw it in her face, and hurt her with the 'proof' I possess. She's also afraid that I will revert back to the person I was a couple months ago and that I'm treating her the way I am because I am in 'panic mode'. Not only do I have to regain my trust in her, but she has to regain the trust in me that I will become the husband that will always be there and give her the emotional needs she so desperately needed. Don't throw in the towel yet, as I know you will feel like doing many times to come. Read, and re-read as much of the MBs website as possible. Our MC already planted the seed in my WWs mind by telling her that cutting off all contact is the 'traditional' way to fully recover from an A. Only if she doesn't see 'the picture' sometime in the future, I will have to plan B it. I am fighting for my marriage because I love her. I know my pride tells me to walk away, expose her, and find someone else who is more 'deserving'. Don't let the 'taker' in you get the best of you. Fight for your marriage if you truly love her.

Today, had a long talk with her. She is very concerned that I want to give up on the marriage now, and she even went as far as saying she'll do whatever it takes, but won't be happy without the group of friends.

I don't really know what to think. I'm excited and happy that she expresses that she wants it to work, but I want her to be sure. I told her that I'm going to need some time to sort through things and that I want her to make this decision because she loves me and not out of panic or fear.

She said that she loves me, and I told her I love her. She expressed regret and thinks that we may become stronger now.

The sticking point is her OM. She wants to work things so that we can sit in the same room together, even if not be friendly. She says he feels extremely guilty and wants to know what can be done to make it better.

What are thoughts on this? I'm feeling more confused than ever...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hoping4best:
[QB]The sticking point is her OM. She wants to work things so that we can sit in the same room together, even if not be friendly. [QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, no, no! They must cut off contact. And if the group of friends facilitates contact, then they may need to be severed as well. She can't have her cake and eat it too, and if you are willing to work on forgiveness, she has to show her faith as well by making her sacrifice...NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT.

Strategy for recovery:

DO NOT directly tell your wife any conditions of what SHE needs to do to recover your marriage. That would be "educating" her.

Instead, I would build a strategy for letting her learn it from her own process of discovery and from an authority on rehabilitating marriages from infidelity ..... who else but the Harleys! Get a phone appointment with Jenn - first she's female - and she's going to seem more in-tune with your wife and her concerns - a man is just going to be another man controlling her. So get hold of Jenn and get a phone counseling session set up ASAP and let her be the "heavy"!

You just PLAN A this through - no lovebusters, protection. etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> a man is just going to be another man controlling her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RONTFLMAO.

It is SHE who has controlled and manipulated him thru her lies and deceit.

But from the point of view of a WS skewed mind, I guess you are right.

I also agree about the consultation with the Harley's.

TMCM:

FOG - it's a form of mental illness - and you can't reason with a sick mind! She will twist anything and perceive what she needs to in order to justify her behavior... And I believe that the discovery of the affair is just the beginning of the downward spiral.

hoping4best,

My spouse had an affair with a "friend" of ours too. When the EA/PA was discovered, he acted exactly as your spouse is acting, cover it up, don't tell her spouse, don't tell our friends, still maintain social contact.

I did not demand no contact (much to my regret) we saw them socially, and it put such a strain on my marriage, that I became this screeching shrew every time I was along with my husband.

Believe me, I speak with experience, her continued contact will wreak havoc in your life! INSIST on no contact, and do not keep it a secret. Tell ppl your problems, you need support right now. I know how invaluable it is to have friends (a very select few) who are aware of his past affair. They helped me verify the no contact rule.

Hang in there, you are doing the right thing by taking things slow, but again, INSIST on no contact. When I didn't, it took another YEAR to get that woman out of my life.

My thoughts are with you,

Lolipop

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I did not demand no contact (much to my regret) we saw them socially, and it put such a strain on my marriage </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe I'm arguing semantics here, but he can not make a 'demand' because doing so is a love buster known as 'selfish demand', and his WW will view it as a 'control' issue with him. But what he can do is negotiate no contact and if that doesn't work and his WW still insists on maintaining contact, then he can writte a letter to his WW that states that despite his love for her, that it is not acceptable to him and that he will be not present in her life while she continues with contact with OW (plan B).

What do you mean by downward spiral?

It seems like she is more concerned with maintaining the group of friends than working things out. She wants us to all get along like before, but I told her that I can't do that. Right now, the group is playing B-Ball uptown, but I'm here. I can't go if OM is there. I don't know if he is, but I just feel like we need to break away if it is going to work.

When we talk, she gets tired of talking and needs to get out of the house to get away from it all. I feel like I'm suffocating the relationship by talking about things a lot, but how do you clear the air without talking? She says that I'm the one she wants and she's giving things time. I talked about marriage counseling and said I was going to make an appointment somewhere. She said it would be good for me, but was noncommital when I asked if she would go.

I'm ready to give up, because I've waited so long, and gone through so many ups and downs. It seems like we'll never get out of this rut. I'm trying to find inner strength to keep working.

Is it wise to set a timetable for things to work and then go or is it better to take it one agonizing day at a time?

She can't keep the group of friends as it was before...she changed it all...and it's unrealistic (fantasy?) for her to want the old times back. She has to realize that! I guess people are right when they say you cannot "demand" no contact, but it has to be done somehow...negotiated?...you simply cannot heal if you two are in contact with the source of the problem...and friendly contact at that.

I don't know if her refusal to drop the group of friends, or disinterest in talking, is related to what many here call "the fog." Just not seeing/thinking realistically. I guess I was lucky in that when my fiance confessed, he was already aware of what he needed to do. I did drive him nuts with my need to talk, but found him much more willing when I was calm and reasonable. At first he didn't want to talk much, but realized that it was necessary for me to know what happened, so he had no exclusive secrets.

He still works with her...which I hate! She is trying to get another job, but apparently she isn't the best in her profession, so is finding it difficult...they have overlapping shifts 1 or 2 times per week, and only talk minimally when required by work...luckily she is very nonchalant about it, probably has cheated on her boyfriend before and thinks little of it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ...still I look forward to the day she is gone forever.

Your wife continues to disrespect you. Her attitude is absolutely outrageous. Ask her if you were sleeping with one of her close friend for the past 4 months; would she be willing to all be friends and be happy sitting in the same group with the OW?
Is the OM married? If so I would inform him wife.
It seems she is more interested about her friends than she is about you. You are only 23 without any children. Her attitude is totally ridiculous by rubbing your face in it by expecting to be around her friends and her lover and keeping silent and a stiff upper lip. What incredible bull****?
It seems she wishes to stay married to you so her friends would not think the worst of her.
I would confront the OM and tell him you know and you will not accept any contact with him and your wife or you will inform the group of friends and his wife if he is married.
There is an old saying that No consequences to her behavior equals no motivation to change. She put your health at risk by have sex with this man for four months and now expects to socialize with him within your group of friends.
It sounds like she is a cakewoman. Either she cuts all contact with this OM or I suggest that you seek an attorney to know your options. It sounds like she is still playing you for a fool.
I know this sounds harsh but it is reality. I wish you luck.