Hello Everyone:

I have been coming to this site since January of this year. My H's affair began in October of 2001. I read every book that the Harleys have and even spoke to them on occassion in counseling and on their radio program. My H's affair ended a month ago and we have been in recovery every since with no contact with OW. Things are going well. My resentment is fading and my love for my H is growing daily. We are now able to talk about what happened and acknowledge mistakes that were made and learn from the whole situation.

Having gone through this thing and now having the benefit of experience I would never ever do a Plan A again. I totally disagree with the Harleys on this one. Plan A does nothing but add further disrespect to the already hurting BS. I would go straight to Plan B. It works. Not only does it remove you from the situation and allow you to breath and deal with your life without the A in your face all the time but it allows the A the chance it needs to become real.

Ultimately there is nothing the BS can do to end the A. It is on the WS and OP to do that. But there is no way I would allow myself to be the third party in that monster ever again. Just walk away. I like the old saying, "If you love someone let them go, If they never return they were not yours to begin with." It is a tough pill to swallow but in the end you gain your self respect which is so important in the end. In Plan A I felt like a freaking doormat just waiting to be stepped on again. In Plan B I felt empowered. That it was my choice not his, to live for me and not breathe the A every single moment of the day. Plan B also gives you the chance to look at yourself and examine and try to fix your faults. It gives you a chance to decide alone if the marriage is something you truly want.

In "Surviving the Affair" Steve Harley actually says not to put up with the A for one second. I put up with it for months and it wasn't until I did not put up with it that it ended. Now maybe the timing was just right but whatever, in Plan B I felt in control of my life and we all know how out of control you feel in Plan A.

In Plan A I found myself fighting for what I thought was mine. In Plan B I made the choice to let what I thought was mine choose me. And he did. Just my opinion.

wucus..I do understand what you mean. While I am sure that plan A, plan B, etc. can work, each situation is different and must "bend" to fit. What works great for one couple (or one partner in the couple) may not work at all for another couple.

Sadly, I never found this site when the affair came out of the shadows and into the light. So I had no idea what to do, what to think, how to act/react. It might have helped to learned about the different types of basic reactions that most of us go through. And some of the pitfalls that await us.

Personally...I went bonkers, didn't do a plan A at all...until long after the affair was over and dead for my H, but in my mind it was having a second life for MONTHS. I made so many mistakes...maybe it would have been nice to have discovered some of this "plan A-ing" before I put us both through that hell.

I do agree that I could not have done a plan A as lined out here. If the affair had not ended on d-day, I likely would have started the ball rolling on a divorce the next day. I just don't share, I'll pick up my toys and find a new place to play before I will knowingly share my H, my friend, my lover.

However, this is a good "blueprint" to follow if you are committed to such depth. Like all blueprints, you get to rearrange some of the "rooms" to make them more comfortable for you, but it must be nice to have some sort of a plan to begin with, even if you don't follow it exactly.

Hi everyone... I'd like to respond as a BS who originally found Infidelity.com as my source of help. I came here too then, but never did Plan A or B. Nor do I really know what each plan is. I'm just offering my story as another avenue to consider if you are still in the relationship that now includes a third party, or did.

I was the one who spent almost 4 yrs. "wondering" and about the same amount of years "denying". I thought there was no way that two of the important people in my life would be capable or willing to lie to cover their deception. But, for the grace of a higher power, a fog lifting for a moment, or maybe just my intuition, I finally "caught" the two rascals red-handed. At first I was relieved to know my instincts were on target after all the years of their lying. Then I went through incredible emotional pain accepting the fact that they would be so selfish and stoop so low. (In fact that was why my denial was so strong, I thought no one would EVER do that to another).

Fast forward to years from D-Day and I am happy to say that I basically LEFT the situation and made my life slowly but accurately to a place where I had control. I did no Plan A, no Plan B. Although we saw counselors and I tried, I followed probably the best advice anyone could give you -- just follow your heart and you will go where you need to. Follow your heart.

What is the point of this thread?

I feel that the Marriage Builders principles have kept my marriage together. I am happier today than I have ever been because of the application of Plan A. The principles on this site are so very basic to human relationships, but ones I had never learned before.

Plan A is NOT about trying to manipulate your partner. Plan A is about IMPROVING yourself! I was in such pain when I found this site, that I needed all the help I could get. I found it here applying the Plan A principles! Just that change has made it unnecessary to go to Plan B, and the pain associated with that.

I suppose that there may be a few people out there who are perfect, so they don't need to work on improving themselves. If so, they need not waste their time.

If you don't want to contribute to and support the principles on this web site, I fear it will confuse others who might otherwise find it helpful. In which case I ask - what are you doing posting here? Is there another forum which might better fit your beliefs and principles and which you could contribute in a positive manner rather than a negative one?

Its just a thought.....

I've been in plan B for one week now and it's killing me. I suppose with having to face reality of life without WH again is traumatic. But, I'd like to know more of how you plan B'd. What kind of signs did you see that signaled the A might be ending?? If you had kids, how did you handle the fact they might be around OP? Did you file?? Did you separate ALL personal belongings?? Did you separate bank accounts??

My WH isn't sleeping well and is questioning whether I still love him (according to SIL, who is our intermediary). What do you think of that?

I guess I want to know more of your story. There aren't many success stories I've seen with plan B, so I'm very excited to talk to you!

Thanks! And congratulations!

Oh, did everyone around think you had lost your mind while you "waited"???

I agree with WillingToTry that Plan A is about improving oneself. Whether your marriage survives the A or not, you will have learned valuable skills for any future R.

Let's be honest here, A's don't happen if you're both doing it right. It takes two to make a marriage and two to break it (this is a generalization, I know. There are instances where one partner is dealing with sh*t too deep to wade through). If we aren't willing to take that long hard look at ourselves in the mirror and see where we messed up, how can we expect our WS's to do it?

Willingtotry...I was definitely NOT putting down planA, planB, or this site in anyway. I feel that the more options that are given to the BS the better. Each situation is going to take a little from this "pile", a little for that "pile", and still again a little from another "pile"...while working to make their situation one that works for them and their marriage (or even the ending of it).

I also agree that plan A is NOT about getting on your knees and taking whatever is dished out, just to hang onto your WS. It's about looking at yourself, making changes that will better YOUR life, with or without your WS making the decision that you might want.

As I first posted...I would have loved to have had this site as a resource during the time that my H and I were first beginning to rebuild. Oh goodness...the mistakes we both made which might have easily been avoided.

Dear BrokenHearted:

No people did not think I was crazy in Plan B. They thought I had finally come to my senses!!! Here this man was carrying on this affair under my nose and I was not LB'ing and literally doing everything. I must agree that every situation is different. My H had not worked from January 02 mostly because of this A. I worked, took care of kids and paid all bills because he was so wrapped up in OW and for a time so was I. I felt possessed by the A. In Plan B I decided to put it in God's hands and decided I could find happinesss within myself and my kids and that this need to win my husband was ridiculous. Win, Win, Win.

I love this site and it helped me through this hell. Some of the things people wrote to me hit so hard they made me cry. But they were lessons. I guess I knew it was time to go to Plan B when I knew one more lie, one more catch, one more call, and I would file for a divorce and never look back. In fact when I started Plan B I had made all the improvements, admitted my part, tried to work on M, sought counseling, etc. But I kept getting slapped back to square one. I just told myself that this A would no longer be a part of my life and if that meant he could not be either so be it. But I felt it taking over my life and so I had to let it go to live, and breathe.

No matter what anyone here says Plan A is hell. The A is always there. It is in your face. I don't know if I did a good plan A or not but I did it for as long as I could. I kicked my H out on at least three occassions but I always worried what was going on when he was away. On one occassion I had to ask OW where H was. lol He had not called me or kids. I felt sick most of time in Plan A. Like I could not take anymore of this. I must add that I was a snooper so I saw more than the average person. OW lived in Sweden and we live in Illinois. He flew 14 hours to see her, f--k her, get her pregnant, and come home to me and have unprotected sex. Yuck!!!! All this and he did not have a job!!!

The pregnancy thing is void, and so forth but as you can see I was wrapped up in this crap. It was so ugly that I just asked God to release me. I deserved so much more. I am a good woman, incredible. There was a time that I did not want sex with my H but that was because he gave me nothing. We both have changed for the better. He works hard to please me. And I do the same. I love him and he loves me. I am gaining trust daily and he is becoming more open by the day.

I guess I just felt that when I started Plan B that I would be successful regardless if I stayed married or not. Love you all. wu

Broken Hearted:

I forgot. Whatever he says while he is still in A is fog talk. Do not listen to it. He knows you love him that is all Bull Sh... My H was in fog until two days before he came to me and said he was sorry for pain, harm to marriage, it is over, I will not contact and had a rough draft of no contact letter ready for me to read. I had been trying to get that letter for months. I changed my attitude and he changed. He got scared. They know we love them. It is only fog. care. wu

wu,

You have a lot of good responses already. I will put in my 2¢. One is taking a chance w/ going straight to plan B. If OW is ready to take your H, your M will be over. IMVHO the side benefit of doing plan A is you have time to access the damage and think it through. The baby sitter of my 2 D did throw her H out the door. OW was ready to take her H ! and OW&H are still together ... no M though. ... she comes to acceptance this spring, 12 years later !. BTW. There is plan B w/o plan A. It is a "tough love". Plan A/B is not one size fit all. I beleive in plan A/B since it is the safest. The length & how you do plan A/B are vary ...

I am glad you are in recovery ...

-RH-

I am a FWS and will have to agree with you that Plan A does not work. My H plan A'd his butt off for as long as he could take and I (for some unknown reason) wanted nothing to do with him even though he was being so wonderful and I knew it. I kept convincing myself OM is better(boy was I wrong). The OP is ill equiped to fullfill all EN's of the WS when plan B is in effect, and the OM in my situation was not even M. When he was in plan A it made it easy for me to take my time, do what I wanted to do, I knew he would be there. The second he went to plan B it was like reality came crashing down on me. He was no longer on the back burner he completly jumped off the stove and into the frig, if you know what I mean. I knew if I didn't do something I would loose him. I do think though for a plan B to be truly effective you have to have NO contact at all, kids or no kids. He told me he was no longer going to be a doormat and when I decided to be a real part of our M then we could talk. He had his mother drop and pick the kids up when he wanted to see them, wouldn't take my phone calls. He told everyone that both of us talked to not to talk to me about him. Talk about a wake-up call! Anyway the fog left very quickly and we have been in a great recovery for over 8 months. Our M is better now than it ever was.

Also, Willing to try, if plan A is about improving yourself, then why can't you do that while in plan B? A kind of plan A/B combination. I think that if plan A is about you and looking in the mirror, and has nothing to do with your spouse than it can be done while you are in a "no contact" plan B, JMHO. So I will have to say I am a strong plan B advocate.

DU

WillingToTry -
Regarding a paragraph in one of your replies, you said the following:
"If you don't want to contribute to and support the principles on this web site, I fear it will confuse others who might otherwise find it helpful. In which case I ask - what are you doing posting here? Is there another forum which might better fit your beliefs and principles and which you could contribute in a positive manner rather than a negative one?"

I'm confused here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I think Wucus is just trying to get answers like everyone else and Plan A will not always work for everyone. Although its awesome that it worked for you! I'm learning more about the two plans but it seems I'm kind of combining the two right now so I don't know yet which one will work better? We'll see...

Part of this site also is to respect other people's opinions even if you don't agree with what they said or how they said it. (Read the posts from WorthaTry to me and me to him, tons of miscommunication there that was not intended.) I may have been the first to disagree with a few of those rules and I have my reasons.

People are confused and hurting when they come here and need to hear all aspects of how to deal and all matters of opinion but they do not deserve to be shut down. Its not about people thinking they are "perfect", its about people who are hurting and are trying to get through this situation and get answers. Maybe I am misinterpreting your reply but my initial thought was thought it was a bit sarcastic to what Wucus was saying.

I think the worst thing you can do to someone on this site who's going through such a tramautic experience is making them feel even worse, just bcause they have an opinion that's different from yours. I'm speaking in general terms, not to anyone in particular. That's just My thought...