KaylaAndy and I had a conversation last night before we went to sleep. She seemed to have vocublary that she was fully associated with and expressions for everything that she finds in conflict with my taker and her taker. It caught me off guard totally. I didn't know that just going to bed was so much like walking into a mine field. She seemed to have the full transactional analysis blueprint for my taker on every imaginable ego state I've ever been. To say that it was bewildering to me is the understatement of the decade. Although I found it strangly facinating and illuminating I also found it dehumanizing. I had been reduced to a mathmatical formula in her mind. She had finally solved me like a great puzzle that she'd been working on for years and now she had all the answers. It felt almost suffocating.

She suggested that there is a small group of people here doing something in this part of this site that meets with her approval. Since meeting with her approval is something I don't seem to have the power to do no matter what I do I'm none the less following her instructions and indulging a curiosity to see what the heck is going on in here that is so all fired wonderful.

What is all this talk of takers and is it just possible that there is a way to in reality resolve taker conflicts?.. and if so why have I never seen it done before?

Cerri seems to be the one here my wife believes in and recommends so highly to me. So here I am. If you think you can fix me, go for it. Don't be suprised if I'm just a little defensive. I've had more people try to fix me than I can count including myself. As someone once told me I'm fubr. So here I am doing what is wanted of me one more time and reporting to the fix it shop to see if the new repair person has the skill to finally get me ok and make me socially acceptable.

Consider that I an John Nash are cell mates. I have bipolar disorder so I'm told. It makes me an easy convenient target for anyone who doesn't want to be accountable for their own feelings and insecurities to tag me as the designated problem in their life. I've been used this way all my life. Somehow my taker tries to compensate me for this imposed cosmic role and it never manages to be enough to get me any credit or respect.

That's probably more than I ever wanted to share. I'm not sure what is illusion and what is reality in this pandora's box.

Whatever, I surrender, sort of. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

where do I, where do we go from here? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]</small>

Kasey1 - talk about confused?!? Let me get this straight, you have 843 posts on this system and you don't have a clue what a Taker is???

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, you need to read the information provided on this site (not in the forums) regarding Givers, Takers, etc. That will, or should, explain what a "taker" mode is to you.

If you get lost, look in the Marital Conflict area if I remember correctly.

I guess we are all different, but in my case, I spent something like two months just reading everything on the site. I would have assumed that you did the same, at least some time before or while you were posting over 800 times!

my God....DAD?

are you my father?

Dad is that you? how did you find me?

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]</small>

Hi Kasey!!
Wow, I never see my name in lights, I nearly fell off my chair! Which would be bad because then I'd hurt myself and who would take care of the kids and the cats and the dog and horse and the mowing and the...................oh, sorry.........................got carried away.

Well OF COURSE you would feel defensive. No one wants to hear that there's something wrong with them. Pfffft. And certainly not that they need to be fixed! And even when our spouses give us really valuable information about how our actions and choices affect them, our natural tendency is to be a bit put off.

So, let's start by saying that I don't think you need to be fixed because I don't believe you are broken. You like all the rest of us, in my book anyway, are perfectly human. If you had no flaws, no annoying characteristics, no lumps and scrapes, well then.... you wouldn't belong on this plantet would you?

Now, I will suggest that you might have some habits and some ways of doing things that Kayla finds offensive or uncomfortable or just doesn't like for one reason or the other. We all do things that our spouses don't like. If you want a list of mine, just ask.

I will also suggest that in marriage everything we do affects our partner. So, it's in everyone's best interests to avoid the things that hurt him/her and do the things that make them happy. And of course, we need to be happy at the same time.

If you've each been doing things your own way for a while, getting to that point is going to be difficult. And this I know from experience too. You would be hard pressed to find 2 more pig-headed people than me and my H.

KaylaAndy and I had a conversation last night before we went to sleep. She seemed to have vocublary that she was fully associated with and expressions for everything that she finds in conflict with my taker and her taker. It caught me off guard totally. I didn't know that just going to bed was so much like walking into a mine field.

Ok, let me say that I think Kayla is wonderful. And that perhaps she had some really valuable information to share with you. But as you state, the way in which that information was delivered was unpleasant. So, instead of it being a fun conversation that the 2 of you could walk away from feeling closer to each other and better able to understand where the other was coming from, you both ended up frustrated and irritated.

This is something that I have a really bad habit of doing. I am definitely one of those get it on the table types of people. In fact, I've been known to wake H up in the middle of the night (twice in the same night) because I was STILL upset with something and I wanted to rag on him. I'm learning to not do that. That it hurts him, it hurts me, and it hurts our M.

Disrespect is my biggest internal demon. It's taken a long time for me to learn intellectually and then to put into practice, that parading my intellectual views about what's wrong with my spouse is NOT going to be a good thing for either of us.

She seemed to have the full transactional analysis blueprint for my taker on every imaginable ego state I've ever been. To say that it was bewildering to me is the understatement of the decade. Although I found it strangly facinating and illuminating I also found it dehumanizing.

You were offended by being taken apart and put back together like a bucket of Legos?

I had been reduced to a mathmatical formula in her mind. She had finally solved me like a great puzzle that she'd been working on for years and now she had all the answers. It felt almost suffocating.

I think we all would agree with that.

She suggested that there is a small group of people here doing something in this part of this site that meets with her approval. Since meeting with her approval is something I don't seem to have the power to do no matter what I do I'm none the less following her instructions and indulging a curiosity to see what the heck is going on in here that is so all fired wonderful.

Awwwww..... we're just a bunch of hardline MB junkies hanging out around the cyperspace water cooler. And you are very welcome to jump in. The only (until this moment) unwritten rule is that you must treat any and all with respect and courtesy, even when you disagree.... which everyone does at some point.

What is all this talk of takers and is it just possible that there is a way to in reality resolve taker conflicts?.. and if so why have I never seen it done before?

The Taker is the part of our emotional make up that watches out for your best interests, even if that means wreaking destruction on everyone around you. The Taker gets a bad rap as the part of you that destroys relationships. And that's just not the case.

The Taker's STRATEGIES of being demanding, disrespectful, and angry in order to get what you want, that destroy relationships. But the Taker plays a very important role in making certain that and your needs are addressed.

The counter part to that is the Giver. Everybody likes the Giver because the Giver.... gives. What they forget to look at is that the Giver doesn't care one teensy weensy bit about you and how you feel. So, the Giver will want you to do things for others that are not in your best interests.

Neither of those parts of you knows how to keep things in balance. That's where your intelligence and intellect come into play. You need to look at the entire situation and see where the G and the T are pulling you. Then you sit back and think about how you can give to others and still take care of yourself. In marriage, that requires negotiating with your spouse.

Consider that I an John Nash are cell mates. I have bipolar disorder so I'm told. It makes me an easy convenient target for anyone who doesn't want to be accountable for their own feelings and insecurities to tag me as the designated problem in their life. I've been used this way all my life. Somehow my taker tries to compensate me for this imposed cosmic role and it never manages to be enough to get me any credit or respect.

So talk to me about this diagnosis? How did it come about? Are you on meds? How do you feel about that?

Let me tell you about me. I have a lifelong food issue. As a teenager I had an eating disorder. I have huge body image issues. I struggled unknowingly for years with a dissociative disorder (better now), and I have a wider than average range of mood swings. And I think my family's a little odder than some. Do I think I'm socially unacceptable? Nah.... unfit for marriage maybe.... but that's a different story. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

That's probably more than I ever wanted to share. I'm not sure what is illusion and what is reality in this pandora's box.

Amazing how that happens when your fingers hit the keyboard, isn't it?? And what if it's all illusion????


where do I, where do we go from here?

Tell me what you'd like to do. I'm here and I'm willing. Can I help? Probably, but the hard work is always up to you. I'm leaving today for the weekend. I may get a chance to check in, it depends on my family's schedule. My email is always availabe too, of there are things you don't want to post publically. info@lifeworks-coaching.net

Hope that wasn't as bad as you thought it might be!!

C

cerri,

thanks for the reply.

this is far too personal for me to parade before the peanut gallery. since respect seems to be at the core of it all and I've already had one cheap shot taken at me just as the cover price for opening up next to the water fountain. So much for the unwritten rules here. They were broken before they were even in print.

Gratefully not by you so you seem to be someone who despite claiming they dwell with disrespect deamons manages to keep at least to some degree the deamon caged and plays nice in spite of the inner conflict playing nice may create for you.

all this taken into consideration I would at this point much perfer to correspond with you by email and possibly chat in real time thru instant messenger if that seems mutually acceptable.

since your availability is subject to powers beyond my control as is also the case with most of the people I have to seek help with I can only accept the time you can make available. A fact that makes me feel ever so much like a beggar and which I don't like to feel any more than I enjoy the topic itself.

I'm not sure where to begin to tell my story or my "diagnosis" my diagnosis depends of course on which expert you ask and on who'se paying them for it.

At any rate I'll make some effort to start a dialogue with you thru email.

thanks and have a good weekend. I personally have no idea what to hope for this weekend myself. perhaps I should just pray for an emotionally safe place to sleep.

So much for the unwritten rules here. They were broken before they were even in print.

Oh, I didn't mean the board, just where I usually hang out, sorry for the misunderstanding.

Gratefully not by you so you seem to be someone who despite claiming they dwell with disrespect deamons manages to keep at least to some degree the deamon caged and plays nice in spite of the inner conflict playing nice may create for you.

I've learned that "delete" is a really useful key to have available!! Earlier this week I had to edit a post THREE times to weed out the snottiness that was threatening to take over.

all this taken into consideration I would at this point much perfer to correspond with you by email and possibly chat in real time thru instant messenger if that seems mutually acceptable.

Email is fine. IM is a little harder for me.

since your availability is subject to powers beyond my control as is also the case with most of the people I have to seek help with I can only accept the time you can make available. A fact that makes me feel ever so much like a beggar and which I don't like to feel any more than I enjoy the topic itself.

Well, the availability thing is true of just about anyone we want to have a relationship of any sort with. I can't get in to see a doc for some minor stuff til NOVEMBER. Good grief. And don't even get me going on the referral thing. So I don't know if I would categorize it as begging as much as I would think of it as recognizing that we all are committed to lots of things.

I do recognize that it may feel that way. Since you came here a bit reluctantly, looking for someone that you didn't know if she was going to take your head off or turn you into a voo doo project.

I'm not sure where to begin to tell my story or my "diagnosis" my diagnosis depends of course on which expert you ask and on who'se paying them for it.

Whatever you feel the important points are, works for me.

At any rate I'll make some effort to start a dialogue with you thru email.

It would be good to if we talk upfront about what your expectations and your willingness are. Feel free to ask me whatever.

thanks and have a good weekend. I personally have no idea what to hope for this weekend myself. perhaps I should just pray for an emotionally safe place to sleep.

Maybe you could say (nicely, with a smile) that you looked me up and that we will chat about some stuff and that maybe for a while the topic could be off limits while you get a chance to think about it.

It would be a really good idea to ask that all RT's (relationship talks) be off limits for a while. Your focus should be on things you and Kayla and your family enjoy.
Then try to relax and just enjoy this gorgeous time of year.

Later...

C

i sent you an email titled

"my diagnosis......"

I've wanted to enjoy this wonderful time of year all summer however she had depression and was out of work and we hardly had the money to drive across town or go away for a weekend to a cheap hotel. The price of the babysitter was prohibitive assuming one could be found in less that three months notice.

so........

now here we are and it's the end of summer and it's raining. Canyon roads will be too muddy for passage but for anyone with four wheel drive and chains and a death wish none of which we possess....not sure about the death wish part...

other recreation options tend to be beyond our physical capacity if not beyond our financial capacity. This summer was mostly lost in recuperation a fact that nothing will change now because it's history but a fact that my taker is more than just a little peeved about.

you're asking us to just enjoy nature now is almost like rubbing alcohol in my open wound. thanks alot. Maybe it's good for the wound but it sure stings like hell.

yea I guess it's possible to enjoy a rainy day somehow it's just not what I had in mind for a picnic.

is life ever what we want it to be or how we picture it?

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your focus should be on things you and Kayla and your family enjoy.
Then try to relax and just enjoy this gorgeous time of year.

Later...

C[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">there is nothing we mutually enjoy. I like outdoors, sports, physical stuff. I also like sex. she likes to play solitair and read or cook. She also thinks yard work is fun but I do most of it alone so i'm not sure what to make of that one. that's not really fair we did pull weeds for a while together this year and spent at least one or two days down in the dirt together...that was a rare thrill that left us both with back aches. I can hardly wait to do that again.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> but it looked nice when we were done:) she also likes music. Most of what I enjoy can't be done in the winter. My window of opportunity is almost over for what I consider fun. Given how denied my taker has been this summer the prospects for this winter don't look good. maybe i just need a good night's sleep and it will all look brighter in the morning.

Can I start the today over? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]</small>

Kasey

Just noticed your post and had to pop in, as I've been rooting for you and KA a long time. You are in great hands with Cerri, so I won't add a thing but my good wishes. Hang in there--

Kathi

.

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]</small>

...I hate this software..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ September 06, 2002, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kam6318:
<strong>Kasey

Just noticed your post and had to pop in, as I've been rooting for you and KA a long time. You are in great hands with Cerri, so I won't add a thing but my good wishes. Hang in there--

Kathi</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">adding good wishes is adding perhaps the best thing anyone could add kathi. Unless there is a check in the mail with that for your new nuskin/pharmanex distributorship in our downline. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

by the way that comes with a complimentary massage from yours truly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my God....DAD?

are you my father?

Dad is that you? how did you find me?

[ September 06, 2002, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]

--------------------
let's face it I'm a fun lover at heart!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">awwwww...shucks! The cat's out of the bag now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">since respect seems to be at the core of it all and I've already had one cheap shot taken at me just as the cover price for opening up next to the water fountain. So much for the unwritten rules here. They were broken before they were even in print.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, no "cheap shot" was intended. I told you I was confused by your statement " What is all this talk of takers and is it just possible that there is a way to in reality resolve taker conflicts?.. and if so why have I never seen it done before? "

Please accept my humble apology for the apparant offense.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cerri seems to be the one here my wife believes in and recommends so highly to me. So here I am. If you think you can fix me, go for it. Don't be suprised if I'm just a little defensive. I've had more people try to fix me than I can count including myself. As someone once told me I'm fubr. So here I am doing what is wanted of me one more time and reporting to the fix it shop to see if the new repair person has the skill to finally get me ok and make me socially acceptable.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since I know nothing about your situation, I am going to bow out. Seems you are taking this thing "one on one" via email anyway.

My sincerest best wishes for you that you will find the answers you are looking for.

like I said I take no offense from those who wish well. It's those who know too much rather than those who know to little that bother me.

bump....

hey cerri have you gotten my email?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kasey1:
<strong>bump....

hey cerri have you gotten my email?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey!!!

I sent you a long reply on Monday.... oh...... middle of the day. Unfortunately, like a dingey blonde, I didn't keep a copy. If you didn't get it, I can rewrite. Let me know! Sorry.

Actually, I sent a quick reply on Friday before I left too.... You do know my name is Penny, right?

C

dingy blonde huh? that can be an asset. You must understand that my sense of humor can be very twisted. my takers jokes aren't always the most laughable and I'm definitely on the take here.

for some reason however there was nothing returned to me. Only the computer gremlin knows why? It's a mystery that will never be solved.

I myself have to redo my best work 4 or 5 times on average because of stupid computer crap so i know how frustrating it is to not have back-ups.

sorry about that. I look forward to receiving the second revision now knowing that the first is forever lost in the void.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kasey1:
dingy blonde huh? that can be an asset. You must understand that my sense of humor can be very twisted. my takers jokes aren't always the most laughable and I'm definitely on the take here.

for some reason however there was nothing returned to me. Only the computer gremlin knows why? It's a mystery that will never be solved.

I myself have to redo my best work 4 or 5 times on average because of stupid computer crap so i know how frustrating it is to not have back-ups.

sorry about that. I look forward to receiving the second revision now knowing that the first is forever lost in the void.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, it's probably my usual effect on all things electronic. I'm going to send a test one now and if you would let me know that you got it, it would be great.

Complete rewrite might take a bit longer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
<strong>Well, it's probably my usual effect on all things electronic. I'm going to send a test one now and if you would let me know that you got it, it would be great.

Complete rewrite might take a bit longer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

C</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you mean you have that effect on electronic things TOO!!! omg!

That makes two of us!

So that means that the email route between us is double jinxed once on each end.

Seriously I don't know what my life would be like without issues of

compatibility,
connectivity,
availability,
sensitivity,
receptivity,
recriprosity,
balance.

not necessarily in that order.

but hey, I can dream/fantasize can't I?

<small>[ September 13, 2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: Kasey1 ]</small>