Well I've come back from the Solicitors. We are filing for Children's Custody, the paperwork is done and it's going in in the morning.

I wanted my Wife to look after the children and visit the children here in their home. This is what they have asked for. They do not want to go to her temporary accomodation or see OM2.

She does not accept this and has already stormed out even saying "I was coming home until you did this". She has seen a solicitor who no doubt has told her to fight for custody and probably try and take every penny from me.

OM2 and her were walking along the road after seeing her solicitor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> she has already redirected her mail.

I told her that this is to protect the children and that they are my first priority now that she has walked away. She was very very distraught again.

My C says I'm in a triangle and it's time to cut myself out of that triangle. I really really hate doing this, I feel as though I am the villain and this is my fault <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Neil.

This is not your fault!! Please try not to think that. You have been a wonderful father and kind and forgiving H. You, my friend, have the patience of a saint!! I honestly don't know if I could have done what you have.

I have negotiated sensible visitation for her which seems to have made things a little easier. My Custody Order may be looked at by the Judge tomorrow.

I have told my Wife that whilst she is with OM2 there is no us. I think this is sensible. I have said I will only be able to discuss matters regarding the children with her. I have said that this is to protect myself.

Hopefully the hot air pain we are both feeling will subside and we can get into a routine of care for the kids and in time I will think about what I would like to do.

As for support groups I am going to this one on Thursday night so am hoping some good will come of that. I am also going to see my C weekly for a bit after taking a break.

If I can get the Custody Order sorted so that we know where I stand with the kids and where my wife stands with seeing them and looking after them (which I want her to play a large part in) then I will feel much better.

Do I need a Plan B letter though?

Do you need a plan B letter??? I think that is a question only you can answer. If you feel the need to put your thoughts down on paper then do so. At this point, because there are lawyers involved, I'm not sure I'd send it to her. IMHO, if you send it there is a chance it could be used against you in some way.

You sound much better today. Congratulations on the new start!

Neil, my heart goes out to you. You have been doing a tremendous job of "being there" for your wife and dealing with her many serious problems. I really hoped that things were finally turning around when she came home from the last hospitalization. However, it is clear from what you have posted that she still has serious issues. I agree that professional intervention is needed for her, but right now it seems to be time focus on yourself and not get further drawn into supporting her behavior. I know it will be tough, but it would appear that it is time for &#8220;tough love&#8221;.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's told me he's what she wants, he's what she needs, they're getting a flat together and they're going to be together.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She&#8217;s made it clear that she is going to do whatever she feels like doing. It is sad, to make an understatement, but you really can&#8217;t do more for her at this time. You&#8217;ve been down this road enough and now you have to protect yourself and your family.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well it's all a bit more messed up than that. She sees him as a surrogate father. She is the broken child. He is the "parent". She is not in love with him, she is saying that now, she is saying that I have misinterpreted the feelings. She says she doesn&#8217;t love him but he gives her friendship, a shoulder to cry on and supports her when she is low (all things I do) but asks nothing of her. My view is that is probably the case right now but I agree with you that his agenda is not what she thinks and is as you have said.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She came back to collect some bed linen, she said she is not having an EA and you know I think I'm believing it. She is such a mess. When it was time for her to go, she held onto me and was crying and crying. "Please don't divorce me, please don&#8217;t throw away my wedding rings, please don&#8217;t trash our photos, I need some space to get my head straight..." this is what I'm listening to.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her &#8220;reasons&#8221; are irrelevant. You are her proven friend and husband. I&#8217;d venture to say that few, if any, would have had your fortitude with what has already gone on. But, regardless of her protestations, her using anyone other than you for &#8220;support&#8221; makes it an EA. I agree with others that if it is not yet a PA, it will be before long. She&#8217;s not strong enough to prevent that from happening.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course he's poisoning her mind about this and has been verbally abusive but now that has been reported to the Police. I don't want him around my kids. I don't know him from Jack. He could be manipulating my wife for all I know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am self-employed so have to work or I don&#8217;t get paid. The OM2 is threatening me if I *hassle* my wife so I am waiting for the Police to arrive to take a statement.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is without a doubt your number one priority now. You must protect the family, especially if there is any possibility of abuse of any kind.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(from nursebetty) You might want to give OM2 some instructions if she does move in with him, such as removing all razors, etc. If he wants her, he should know what he has to do to take care of her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is an option. You will have to determine whether or not it would help your wife. From my standpoint, and I know this may sound a little cruel, if he has been verbally abusive and has threatened you, I wouldn&#8217;t waste any time on him. Let him find out the hard way. However, if you think that he might &#8220;dump&#8221; her and you see it as a way to get her to agree to professional help, then perhaps it might be worth the agony of confronting the poor excuse for an OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may know what has caused her issues, and you may even understand those causes, but you clearly can do nothing to overcome her issues. Your love nor the love of your children cannot heal or help her until she takes control of her life. Until she hits bottom that won't happen. Given her tendency for self - inflicted damage, she really needs to be under the care of a physician and inpatient care. I know she was before, but clearly that didn't get the job done.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I couldn&#8217;t agree more. Perhaps if the OM finds about it and &#8220;dumps&#8221; her she will finally hit bottom and seek the care that she needs. Regardless, this is very likely going to be a long-term scenario, so start protecting yourself and the kids now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How does it sound. Am I doing the right things?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With all you&#8217;ve been through, the answer is YES. Only now you are being forced to go the next step and force her to &#8220;stand on her own&#8221;. Just be ready to help with professional care if she hits bottom, because she will probably see &#8220;no hope&#8221; at that point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Should I box up her stuff? Should I put away the things that are hers? They remind me of her so much.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is entirely a personal choice. Only you know the status of your love for her and your willingness to attempt recovery when, and if, she is ready. I only suggest that if she is so confused that she is begging you not to divorce her even though she is walking out on you, she would see the putting away of her things as a divorce. It might be that keeping the things around, at least until you know more about how the thing with the OM plays out, will be the last way that you can show her you still love and care for her.

Neil, her latest tirade about the visitation and the solicitor is simply more "fog talk" while trying to have her cake and eat it too. You will just have to ignore what she is saying and do what you know is right for your family and for her. I would seriously see about not letting her have any custody of the children. You need to protect them from her destructive patterns and lies. Until she faces reality instead of running for it, she is a danger to your children. Don't let them be subjected to any potential abuse like "Daddy is so mean", etc.

Neil, you&#8217;ve been strong for her all along. Now you need to be focused on being strong for yourself and your children. Get counseling. Get anti-D meds. Work as much as you can to keep busy, keep some income coming in, and to keep some semblance of normalcy for your children. Take some 1 or 2 mile walks to keep up your health and just &#8220;get away&#8221; for a few minutes every day.

God bless, Neil. You are in my prayers.

Well I slept really badly all night. I have returned to work today. I have told my Work about my situation and they ahve told me they are very pleased about my work, and not to be concerned. I am due a contract renewal in mid-October and am of course afraid now that I will not get it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> they seemed to indicate that this would be OK. Obviously I need the money to keep life going.

I have heard from my Solicitor, the Judge has approved the Childrens Court Order so my W can have the children at *agreed* times and has to bring them back. This is a sense of relief and hopefully will help diffuse the heat of the situation. It will also show I am serious of getting the children sorted and stable. I have to give her the order tonight.

Sadly I recieved a letter from her Solicitor this morning (that was quick) saying that she has no money, she is not ready to pursue divorce at this time, that she needs me to contribute to her maintenance until she finds suitable accomodation.

It says that my W and OM2 are "considering" sharing accomodation and expenses and that OM2 will in no way support my wife.

Clearly the solicitor hasn't mentioned about the $5000 cash or the $4500 car I have given already. Or that they are currently living together, or that I have signed receipts for the monies and car and a signed doc saying he IS supporting her. Interesting that he is actually living off my cash right now.

I am not mad, just upset. It's spiralling. I want it all back to normal and it's not going to be. I want to get some focus so am trying to do that. I want my wife to just calm a little and get into a routine and see where that takes her rather than push the nasty legal side of it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Still I am hopeful that today she will have a nice time with the kids and that there is a sense of calm. I don't have that right now. I feel my heart is fit to burst. It seems to move by the hour.

I am now trying the minimal contact route to protect myself. I have moved some of my wifes things from our bedroom as they are quite hurtful (art pieces of women laid down and hugging themselves etc) they remind me too much of what I have seen physically and she's not there. I've replaced them with some *happy* pictures from our time together.

Ever onwards Neil.

<small>[ September 10, 2002, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Porsche S ]</small>

Just wanted to let you know that the kids had a good time with their Mum. She picked them up OK from school at 3:30pm and dropped them back here at 6:30pm. She looked a lot happier than yesterday and was actually looking normal.

She hasn't got anywhere to stay yet from next Sunday so is looking at places - all with OM2.

I talked to her briefly when she was leaving. This was my last non-Plan B discussion pretty much like mgm suggested. I said that I can't be in the triangle with OM2. I have to move off and protect my current feelings for her. I think I have set my timeframe for this plan, and I will see how that goes. I want to have a few days of being as close to normal life as possible and hopefully have some fun.

We have a further court date next week to mediate over the kids. I have suggested to my wife that she think about what she would like, I will do the same and hopefully we can agree this week outside. This will save us pain and effort and move things quickly along to stabilising the kids lives.

I'm kicking around the Anti-D's idea just to help with the sleep. I was on such a low dose that it was minimal just made me a little tired but did take off the edge.

Best Wishes Neil.

My Solicitor is responding to her Solicitor about my W's need for finances urgently.

Sadly it looks like I am now in Plan B and it's "in the hands of the Solicitors". Today has been emotionally rough <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> and I am very tired. Feel like I'm running on Adrenalin.

I thought the Carers Project I am seeing tomorrow may not see me as I no longer have a W to care for <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but they will so that is hopeful.

Neil.

It's time to move on. I know many of you will not agree.

But my wife's child abuse has meant that she no longer has hope for us. She has said that she doesn't want to give me false hope. She is at peace being alone with her OM2 friend. She says that they are not involved. For once I think that at this juncture that is true, but know that his agenda is not the same as hers.

I have been in Plan B for only 3 days. I cannot do the pain of the child abuse anymore.

Today I am filing for divorce. I have verbally agreed the custody of the kids and the ownership of the home. I have also verbally agreed some financial terms. My wife knows that she cannot give the children the family life, grandparents and security I can. She knows that she has to protect me and them from her.

I hope that you, my friends, do not feel ill of me. I have truly tried my best. But somewhere in my heart I feel it's time to move on. There has been too much, blood, pain and near death to handle months of further strain.

I will remain her friend and I will not hurt her anymore. I hope and pray in years to come she finds her peace from the brutality enraged upon her, and that she in turn finds some of the happiness she has given me these 13 years.

Best Wishes, Neil.

Neil,
This has got to be one of the most difficult things you have ever done. I have been following your story from the beginning and I agree with you. Even the Harleys will sometimes recommend divorce.

I hope God is with you now when you need help the most. I believe that you will come out of this a better person, and that someday you will be a happier one also.

There are many who have been there and are very happy now, (TMCMan comes to mind) You can make it work too.

May God bless you in your struggles.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Porsche S:
<strong>It's time to move on. I know many of you will not agree.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is very personal choice ... we don't judge you by that. We are here to lean on each other and give support on whatever you do about your M. I chose to end my misery and I know I will never regret this decision and I even could not wait to be legally Dv. I want to live a single life for a while and I wait until this M is legally ended.

We have that choice on D-day yet we stayed and tried. That rain check could be cashed at anytime now.

-RH-

Neil,
I doubt many here would question your choice to end your marriage at this point. You did everything you could to make the marriage work, never forget that. Recovery takes both partners working on the M, your W rarely, if ever, worked with you. At this point, I believe that you know better than anyone what is best for you and your kids. No apologies to any us are needed. We are here to support your decisions, not make them for you. All the best and let us know how you are doing.

Thanks all. I truly hope I never see you in the Divorce Forum but thats where I'll be now.

Neil.

OK I lied, I'm still torn.

We went to Court Tuesday past and agreed our Children's visiting rights. The court declared a "No Order" which means as long as we stick to what we have agreed on paper they do not need to intervene. I am comfortable with this as it means they live with me and they get to see her regularly which is what we both want.

Sadly she kept on again about how much I have hurt her(!) and how she cannot come back now. But she doesn't want a divorce. Quite what is going
on in her head is beginning to get beyond me. Her anger is very high at this point toward me. I am the focus of it, rather than the abuse.

I just don't understand. If she is never coming back then surely she doesn't not expect me to be in limbo or separated indefinately? After all what about my life?

Then strangely once we had finished in the court I felt hammered again, I felt like a criminal, and then she wanted to talk to me! I just couldn't I had to walk away.

I am going thru periods of deep sadness, to great anger at hurt. I miss her so much, and love her so much and sometimes I wake up thinking this is some bad dream. Then I see my little ones crying because Mummy isn't there and I get angry and think how could she do this too us.

The girls are bearing up considering. They cry sporadically, although they have been seeing their mum each day. I dont think we have gotten them into a stable routine yet which I am hoping will relieve some of the pressure. They are reacting in different ways. One is quiet and
angry, one is very tearful, vocal yet mature and the youngest just has fits of continual crying. Bedtime is the worst when I have to tuck them in. If one starts crying they set the others off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I truly don't know what to do. One part of me wants out, I feel she is over, to get on with my life. Yet the other wants her back and living as a family. It is very confusing. I am trying to keep totally away from her. But of course I do have some contact when I am dropping off/picking up the kids. I am trying to reduce that as much as
possible.

I think though that I need to calm down, get some rest, get the routine with the girls going before I decide about Divorce. My Wife says she does not want a divorce. Her solicitor says that in no way will she push a divorce. Yet she says she's never coming back now? Do you think those are lies?

I have started to try and get the Girls used to the idea that this is how it is going to be and also to get them into a routine of helping me when I get home from work and pick them up. I suppose I am doing a sort of Plan B although no letter has been sent. I am trying to avoid seeing my W because it upsets me so much.

Any views? Neil.

I guess you have to ask yourself the question of whether you honestly beleive that there is hope that she will wake up and come back to you determined to rebuild the M or whether she will be going from OM to OM with in between periods of going back to you and the girls.

Your feelings are natural but if you act on them, you might regret doing so later on. Use your head and look at the situation realistically before you decide on a course of action.

IMHO, most WS find it easier to blame someone else, usually the BS, for all their problems and frustrations. It's easier to say to oneself that someone else has the problem than it is to heal oneself. You know in your heart you tried and maybe someday she'll realize it too.

I'm going to guess what you want back is the woman you married and not this stranger! Unless, your WW makes the effort to change and heal, the woman you married is gone. Do not bring this woman back into your lives. How much more do you think you guys can stand? Not much, I'd say.

I'm going to go against the common MB philosophy here. I don't think her being in your life is a good thing. I think what you and your kids have been through is horrendous. She is not willing to change, even for the benefit of the kids. What does that tell you? It tells me she is a mentally sick, selfish and destructive influence.

Now for my tough love... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Your kids need stability, security and someone who cares about what's in their best interests. At this point that person is YOU!! How much more of this insanity do you plan to subject them to? Kids really don't have the ability or the resources to do what's best for them, if we, as adults don't look out for them, who will? You have a responsibility to your kids now. Stop focusing on your WW and her insane babbling and start being the strong, nurturing father I know you can be.

I think though that I need to calm down, get some rest, get the routine with the girls going before I decide about Divorce. My Wife says she does not want a divorce. Her solicitor says that in no way will she push a divorce. Yet she says she's never coming back now? Do you think those are lies?

You are thinking of her like she is rational, but she is not. You are right in that you need to calm down, and give things time. It wouldn't hurt to ask her solicitor that question about why you should want to stay married when your W is living with another man. The solicitor at least should be rational about it. Let the S reason with her about it and try to explain to you why you should keep her.

Neil, you can always get married again if she comes out of this. Don't question yourself so soon, you have already looked at the options and they haven't changed. I believe you need to get on with your life. Given time, you and your children will fell better but it may take a while.

As to her being angry, it is often that way. I have never understood why really, except perhaps they do it to buy time. ( You know, they want a backup plan in case OM doesn't work, and you are taking it away.)

No reason to enablel her, she caused it, let her deal with it.

Praying for you, and your family.

SS

<small>[ September 19, 2002, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thanks all,

I am pretty much doing what you have said. There hasn't been any contact with my W now for three days. I guess you could say I am in a Plan B although no letter has neem sent.

I have a Counselling session with Steve Harley on Monday (Transatlantic Call <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) so I am going to maintain where I am until I have spoken to him.

Isn't it sad that a UK'er needs to call the USA to get help. Damned UK infrastructure for support is crap.

As an aside my Solicitor suggested that I follow this approach which I though was very decent of her.

The Girls are struggling, they are having it tough. Of course their mum doesnt see this, it seems I am the one who gets all the crying.

Regards Neil.

I think one of the things that makes me the angriest is when kids have to suffer because of one parent's fog induced selfishness. I, for one, am willing to admit my contribution to the state of my M before my FWH's A. My children were totally innocent! I consider myself extremely fortunate that both myself and my FWH managed to pull our family together again.

One of the things ALL kids need is a stable, consistent and safe role model. A person who they can turn to when life is overwhelming; someone who is a 'safe harbour'.Your WW is none of those things. That responsibility (amoung all the others you now have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) is yours! IMHO, the best thing to do is hug your kids, tell them you love them, tell them that none of this is their fault, protect them from the sordid details and provide them with a predictable daily routine. Be the stable, secure, consistent and supportive Dad.

Thanks MGM, I am trying to be that for them. Its hurtful for them though because they see me hurting. They see how she is with me and they dont like it.

Only the other day my youngest (7) was crying "Tell Daddy you love him Mummy" only to see her walk away from us.

I spoke to them gently today about the possibility of divorce and what it might mean. That we would be apart their mum & I permanently and that I would be free to find someone else to be happy with. They pretty much understood. I told them that they would always see their mum and that no-one could/would replace her but that Daddy needed to be happy in his life rather than be all alone as he was now.

I find the evenings alone the hardest when they have gone to bed. It's so utterly silent here with nothing going on, then it's when I am at my weakest and want to call her or text her even if it's just to get some small response. Plan B is so hard I dont want to be doing it. I know though that I should.

She says that its all to much hurt now and that we should just finish up, I broke my Plan B and text her tonight. I know I failed but I was hurting so much.

She said that it will just all end in further hurt. She asked me to not hate her, but this is beginning to start I think. She wants to stay friends but I cant do it. How can I remain friends when I love so much and she is with another man? How can I stay friends and yet protect myself? I dont think I can.

Best wishes thru the tears, Neil.