My husband and I always talked about how blessed we were to have such a great marriage. Married 14 years, 2 children..considered ourselves soulmates. No major conflicts..just usual ups & downs. Considered the 'happy' couple everyone aspired to be. One day 2 months ago my husband told me that we needed to talk. He proceeded to tell me that he no longer loved me, had been unhappy for some time, and must leave. He wasn't interested in trying to work it out, or going to counselling, as he had 'no feelings at all for me'. I, of course, was shocked and devastated. The only blame he would take was that he never told me how he felt, and he was sorry. I never knew he was unhappy as he had continued to tell me he loved me, and acted like he did. One day my life is happy, the next it's like a nightmare.
It's been almost 8 weeks now since he has left and he is totally adamant that he will never love me, and can never be happy with me. He is a devoted father, yet isn't even interested in attempting to work it out for them. He said if he comes home, he'll make 3 people happy, but not 4. He has occasionally come over other than times to see our kids, to pack some belongings in boxes, and taken them, but 90% of his stuff is still here. He is staying at a mutual friend's house rent-free (thank goodness, as there is no money for him to have his own place..who knows how we'll ever manage that), and seems in no hurry to go to a lawyer, or get the rest of his stuf out, but continues to tell me on almost a daily basis that I should have no hope as he absolutely has no feelings for me. I have, of course, tried everything to let him know that before throwing away 14 years of marriage, a life together, and 2 children, I am willing to do whatever it takes to work through these problems and come out the other side hopefully happier than ever. He is not interested. Is there anyone out there who can relate to this situation? I have told him I still love him and view this as an opportunity to learn and improve our relationship, as we have so much at stake and have so many things we've enjoyed doing together as a couple and as a family. He told me this week that there is no hope and I 'should get it through my head' that he will never love me and has no feelings for me. Should I wait and hope something happens to 'wake' him up? He is 40, very attractive, has recently had women come on to him, and he's 'come into his own' this year. Is it a mid-life crisis that will end, or am I just fooling myself? I'm not sure if there is anyone else or not..I change my mind on that on a daily basis. I do know that he didn't 'sow his wild oats' before he met me and perhaps he feels he missed out, but his day to day life was very happy, and I treated him with nothing but love and kindness. I'm not perfect, and have done alot of thinking over the past 2 months about changes I could make, but he wasn't perfect either. However, the difference was that I never sweated the small stuff as the 'big' stuff was so good. He said that all the small stuff added up to where he was so unhappy with me that he totally lost his love for me. Everyone is shocked and even his Dad said he should be in Hollywood as he's been such a good actor for so many years. I am trying to move on, but would love some feedback as to whether or not I should hold out any hope, or if I should just move on as this type of behavior indicates he wants a new, exciting life and will move on to his new life. As he's already gone, it's not like I have a chance to work on anything while he's still here. He told no one how he felt until he'd actually moved out. Thanks!

I am so sorry to hear this. Your situation sounds so eerily familiar, I could have sworn it was me talking. (I guess the only difference is that my WS doesn't want to end the M just yet - he's still thinking. He just wants to alternate monthly between living with OW and then with me!)

I'm new here to MB - maybe I'm not exactly the best one to give advice. But it sounds to me like if your H wanted a D, he'd have moved out all his stuff and handed you the papers on the way out the door. IMHO, it is very possible he's having an A - most people don't give up on M till there's something better to take its place. In which case you can't believe anything he's saying. You ask if it's MLC? Sure sounds like it! I've been seeing the same thing in my WS, plus all my friends' H's.

Hang in there. If you want this to work, let him be the one to initiate D. Don't push him into it. Try not to take everything he says too much to heart. Work on yourself and being the best person you can be.

And mostly - READ, READ, READ everything you can on MB website, about BC, about Plan A and B, everything. I wish I'd found this site sooner - I truly believe if I had, my WS's A would be over and my M would be recovering.

Just wanted to let you know someone was listening. Maybe someone with more experience can give you better advice.

SH94: Thanks for your reply. I have been reading loads of books, and talking to lots of people, and the books have helped somewhat, but also made clearer the fact that he probably is having an affair, and that is why he is so willing to just give up everything. I wonder if he isn't moving out his stuff yet because he's waiting for the other woman to organize her side as well, and perhaps they will get a place together. This is all speculation on my part ..just trying to figure it out best I can.
It's hard to work on any plan when he isn't interested in even talking to me. I am only seeing him now when he comes to get the kids.
I have read all about Plan A & B, and His Needs/Her Needs, and they're great..but as I said it's hard to use that info when he doesn't even want to talk to me.

Kimmy1:
I wonder if he isn't moving out his stuff yet because he's waiting for the other woman to organize her side as well, and perhaps they will get a place together. This is all speculation on my part ..just trying to figure it out best I can.
Yeah, I know how you feel - I too get all these thoughts about how my WS is using me as a fallback position in case his new OW doesn't work out, or keeping me around so he'll have someplace to go every other month till he works out a new residence (he's on a rotation shift every 30 days). So I can sure relate to your suspicions towards your H.

Every day (heck, every hour!) I wonder if it's time to throw in the towel. But then I keep thinking - consistency, consistency, consistency. Keep it going another day at a time. (Sounds like AA, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) I'm trying Plan A, gritting my teeth all the way. And the one thought that keeps me going is "what is the worst that can happen if I do this?" The answer is, if it still ends in divorce, I've only lost a few months of my life, and maybe a little pride, and also a few pounds. On the other hand, if this does work then I've regained my husband. A little pride seems like a small price to pay.

But I guess you have to answer that question for yourself. Is it worth it to you? Have you worked on this enough and showed him you're ready to do what's needed to fix the marriage? Will you look back later and know you've given it your best shot?

I hear you. I know how hard it is to hold on and be the doormat and let him work out his craziness. I'm doing the same and fighting every minute to keep from calling it quits. Talking to people here helps.

Good luck. Keep posting.

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: SH94 ]</small>

SH94: Thanks for your reply. Absolutely I have told him I am open to working on everything to try to work through this. I've offered therapy, counselling, I've been reading books..thinking about mistakes I've made that have contributed to this, and he's still not interested. For two months now I've had every advice you could think of, but have decided the best way to handle it is to still be patient. Yes..you are right..it's only a few months out of my entire life. He has denied and denied an affair, but the more reading I do, and the more research I do, it seems to explain his behavior over the last 2 months. He has our kids at his parents cottage this weekend, and I'm wondering when he brings them back I should tell him I'm aware of his affair (even though he's denied one). I would love to implement Plan A, but most of the testimonials and advice around that plan seem to be based on an affair being exposed, as opposed to the betrayed spouse 'telling' the husband she's figured it out. And...if my suspicions are right, his affair will be with his co-worker, who he sees every day and has liked as a 'best friend' for many months now. I also know she's had marital problems, so the whole scenario seems perfect for an affair. And, I know they have many great conversations. He told me that in the past many times also. Can you (or anyone reading) give me advice on if I should confront him tonight (but nicely and calmly as per plan A) and then at least he knows that even though I've asked before and he's denied it, I am telling him I do know! Of course, if he isn't having an affair, it may make matter worse, but he seems willing to forfeit everything he has, which makes no sense, so an affair seems so obvious. Thanks!!

In response to your question - should you confront WH about A and say you know everything...

I just read one of SH's articles about how an A sometimes won't end until it's discovered. Once they're discovered however, most A's can't stand up to light of day and will end within 6 months of being found out.

Your problem is that you have no proof of A, and your H can keep denying until you do. I know mine did for months until I finally started snooping and gathered the evidence. I firmly believe you owe it to yourself to be aware of what's happening. I don't believe you should feel guilty about so-called snooping, in case that's what you're thinking it is. What you need to do, IMO, is gather as much evidence as you can. Then when you have the facts, present them to him, tell him you deserve his honesty on this, and stress that revealing the A does not mean the end of M.

In my case I never did find proof-positive, but I had enough to make WH feel uneasy. I also told him I was coming to visit him at his work location (where he lives with OW) so he knew discovery was imminent. Don't know what actually did the trick - the circumstantial evidence, my threat to visit him, my appealing to sense of fair play, or my willingness to stay with him. Whatever it was, WH confessed that very day after denying A for months.

One other thing....
Maybe someone else disagrees, but I think you should trust your instincts about his having A. I didn't - kept thinking I was going nuts, turning into some jealous wife. I hated myself for distrusting H. Only after he confessed did I realize that I could trust myself, which in a weird way made me feel better.

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: SH94 ]</small>

Hi SH94. When my husband dropped the kids off last night I didn't say anything about my feelings of an A. But...I tried to follow Plan A and was friendly and interested. When he left I felt good, but it's hard to pull that off, isn't it! Especially when he talked back friendly to me but was still looking at me with that totally uninterested look and a monotone voice.

I am going to start telling him that I am willing to meet his needs and will make them my priority. I am sure once again he will think I am losing it, as he continues to tell me there's no hope, no feelings. But..I'll have to give plan A a shot at least.

The problem with me telling him I'll visit his work or whatever, to get evidence of A, is that you have to remember that he's not lived here for 8 weeks now. So, it's not like he's still in the home and I suspect. I really have no reason to go to his work being separated like this. If the co-worker I suspect is who he's having the A with, then she has a husband and 2 kids as well and so their meetings are most likely arranged through the work day so no opportunity to snoop. A friend of mine says that I should tell him I know 'in all probability' he's having an affair, but to me that sounds silly. Either say 'you are' or don't say it. My husband will deny an A in any case, as he's been doing from day one. But, alot of lies have been told over the last year obviously, so I can't trust him that way anymore. My gut does tell me that something is going on. And, when I was at work one night last week and he was here taking care of the kids, my daughter said he spent 20 minutes in the car talking on the cell phone. Strange when there's phones all over the house. He just said he 'wanted a private conversation'. Comments from anyone??

Hi, Kimmie1:
How are things going now? I hear you loud and clear about how hard it is to Plan A! The only way I can stick to it is vent, long and loud - here on this site, to my friends, in my journal.

Unless you've got access to his checking acct, CC statements, phone bills, whatever - or unless you want to hire a PI (is that a bit extreme?) - or unless you want to play PI on your own and follow him around in a raincoat.... I'm at a loss as to how to discover his A. Have you ever told him who you expected of being OW? And why? Maybe that's enough to at least get him thinking. Sorry, not much help I'm afraid.

What is your strategy with WH and for M? I found having a plan, with timeframe (my own, not WH's) was a real source of strength. I won't tell WH what my plan is - figure it gives me options as things change, then I can change plans to fit. My counselor also confirmed - said it was good to have something definite in mind.

Here's my strategy: I'm waiting till end of Sep when he comes home - will Plan A till it kills me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Then spend month together. I know he's going to do same thing as last month - ignore, no affection, withdraw. Continue Plan A through Oct, while he's here, with lots of fun activities and no whining on my part. Push him to see C while he's home - he said he might. But if not, tot that up in "you lose" column. Then when he goes back, get reading from him on his feelings. If not willing to give up A, work on M - Ding! He loses. Plan B!

My thinking is that I'll reinforce the idea that I'm fun (he mentioned last month that I'm not fun any more) and loving and a good wife. But I can't go thru another month like this one. If no progress at end.... that's it. Complete separation - get your EN's from OW and friends.

So that's why I asked if you had a strategy. I found until I got one, I just let whatever happened happen. And it made me feel so out of control.

Take care. Post whenever you have time.

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 06:33 AM: Message edited by: SH94 ]</small>

Hi SH94: So glad you wrote again! Well...since my last note alot has happened. I basically contacted the co-worker who I thought might be the OW, and did it backfire bigtime. She went ballistic and went right to my H and told him whatever was going on in his marriage, etc., she was sorry for him but wasn't going to get involved like this. Needless to say my husband freaked at me! It was horrible. I fully expected him to come here later that day to ask for a divorce!

I must admit that I do believe she is not the OW, so now I'm stumped. Anyway, I apologized to both of them. I obviously handled it the wrong way. However, I don't apologize for my feelings..just the way I handled it. My H was so mad at me I thought he would never even be civil to me again. But..stranger than strange, he calmed down and tonight was actually here to help me look for a new (used) car. This was a plan made a few days ago and I didn't think he'd even show up or he'd be miserable if he did, so I was very surprised. He didn't mention the blow-up or his co-worker at all, and neither did I. I tried to be nice, considerate, etc., and I thanked him when he dropped us home. We are supposed to meet again tomorrow afternoon as we want to test drive a car and arrange for payments if it works out. We just ran out of time.

The other thing that happened today is that it is our 14th wedding anniversary. I had contemplated whether or not to say anything, and decided this morning to send him an e-card. Not as formal as a regular card, but it notes the occasion. I didn't know if he even remembered, but I decided I wanted to let him know it was still an important date to me. I got the confirmation e-mail that he looked at it this morning, but he didn't mention that to me at all tonight either, so I don't know what he thought about it. I didn't say anything about that either.

Re having a plan. That would be good except my husband has been gone for 8 weeks and has no intention of ever coming back, so he says. Remember he has stated almost every day for 8 weeks that he has no feelings for me, no longer loves me, is unhappy being married to me. I wish I could say my plan was for him to move back at the end of the month..that would be great. The only 'plan' I have is not to do anything unless he initiates it..ie..changing our bills, packing up more of his stuff, etc. I figure the longer he coasts the better chance I might have that he might reconsider in the future. He went through a packing frenzy about 2 weeks ago, and every time he was here watching our kids when I worked night shift, I'd come home to a mound of boxes ready to be taken out the front door. He hasn't done anything for about two weeks, or even mentioned it. So..I've kept quiet too. Even if he doesn't ever come back, I figure the longer it takes the more prepared to handle it I might be. So, that's my only plan. I will just be nice to him, and I send him e-mails of stuff he needs to know about the kids, or whatever and that's it. I don't know how to get love for me returned to him. Especially now as what if he isn't even having an A?? That means the only reason he's unhappy in his marriage (that he's acknowledging..in his mind he's done no wrong..he's perfect) is me, and so it's not like I can hope once his A is over there's a chance he will 'wake up'. If there's no OW, then that goes out the window.

Anyway ..looking for any comments from anyone out there. Thanks alot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. She went ballistic and went right to my H and told him whatever was going on in his marriage, etc., she was sorry for him but wasn't going to get involved like this. Needless to say my husband freaked at me! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah... and when I called my H and OW on the 75 phone calls they made to each other in March... she called ME on my cell at work and told me they were "just friends" talking to each other about kids and marital stuff... and I bought it hook, line and sinker...

Don't dismiss her too easily... or the idea that there is an OW... too many of the signs are there... her anger could come from the fact that she is SCARED witless you will call her H and put 2 and 2 together... that's what I did the very next month (April) when d-day finally occurred for me... Called OWs H and we compared notes... came up with the same conclusion... our spouses were having an affair.

Keep doing the best you can on plan A... you may not see results FOR MONTHS... but remember, in the long run plan A is for YOU...

Cali

I've been continuing Plan A for the last few days. Must admit..just trying to look and sound happier was good for a couple of days. I had two days with no tears!! small victory!! I have seen my H a couple more times in the last few days to finalize the car stuff. Continued to end e-mails with 'love Kim'. I haven't talked about our marriage at all and try to give the impression that I'm just fine without him here, even though I love him.

Now..in the last 3 weeks I've gotten a new job and now my new (used) car. In a perfect world my H and kids and I would have gone out to dinner to celebrate, as we always do to celebrate big things. The disappointment I've had is that with both the car and the job I've been unable to show my excitement with H..ie..the hug and kiss and excitement you would share with your partner. I've felt depressed instead of excited about either..normal reaction I'm sure. Anyway, I decided that myself and the kids should go out to dinner anyway. We deserve a treat. I decided to ask my H if he would like to go with us as he played a big part in both (told me about the job opening, and helped me big time looking at cars). He said 'that was fine with him'. We are going tonight. He doesn't want to go in the same car..we will meet at the restaurant. However, I plan to look FANTASTIC and be extremely fun and happy if it kills me, re Plan A (I still hope I'm doing it right). What do you all think? Is my offer to come to dinner a smart one??

Also, if an H has moved out..expresses no interest in you, and may or may not be having an A....what is the 'touching' rule?? I of course long to touch him and hate seeing him knowing I can't, but for example..he said something amusing the other day when we were at the car dealership and I reached out and rubbed his arm, as a sign of affection, and I wonder if that stuff is good. By doing that am I 'pushing'...or what? Is he recoiling inside as he certainly doesn't even want to stand very close to me ..that's been obvious the last 2 months. Please give advice!

Also (sorry..need lots of help here)..he still has made no move to look for his own place. So, it's like he's just staying with a friend right now. I continue to receive his mail, do the bills, run the household, and all he does is go to work, go to his friend's, visit our kids. Re Plan A..is it wise to continue this way? It's like I'm in limbo here and he's got it very easy. I was wondering if giving myself until the end of the month, and then saying 'wondering how long you'll be at Dave's. Wonder when you'll want the mail re-routed, the rest of your stuff taken out, etc..' Is this a good idea? I just feel that by leaving everything the way it is, it just makes it an easy, convenient life for him and he doesnt' have to do anything really, until some decision or event makes him. Thanks!

Kimmy1:

"Must admit..just trying to look and sound happier was good for a couple of days. I had two days with no tears!! small victory!! "
Congratulations! Keep working on you - you're getting stronger every day. Even when it seems like you're making no forward progress, you really are.

"Is my offer to come to dinner a smart one??"
He agreed to come, didn't he? He wouldn't do that unless he wanted to, would he? So your offer was obviously a smart move. And a great chance to show him how well you're doing, how good the *new and improved Kimmy1* is, and what a new life with you could be like.

"Also, if an H has moved out..expresses no interest in you, and may or may not be having an A....what is the 'touching' rule?? I of course long to touch him and hate seeing him knowing I can't, but for example..he said something amusing the other day when we were at the car dealership and I reached out and rubbed his arm, as a sign of affection, and I wonder if that stuff is good. By doing that am I 'pushing'...or what? Is he recoiling inside as he certainly doesn't even want to stand very close to me ..that's been obvious the last 2 months. Please give advice! "
Do what is right and natural to you. If you feel like reaching out and touching him, do it. If he recoils or you sense he doesn't like it, stop. Don't force things or he'll sense it and that WOULD backfire. You probably shouldn't push things TOO far, though - a friendly pat or light touch, maybe a kiss on the cheek or brief hug (MAYBE!) - but that's it.

"he still has made no move to look for his own place. Re Plan A..is it wise to continue this way? It's like I'm in limbo here and he's got it very easy. I was wondering if giving myself until the end of the month, and then saying 'wondering how long you'll be at Dave's. Wonder when you'll want the mail re-routed, the rest of your stuff taken out, etc..' Is this a good idea? I just feel that by leaving everything the way it is, it just makes it an easy, convenient life for him and he doesnt' have to do anything really, until some decision or event makes him. "
He DOES have it easy - and that's the hardest thing about Plan A. Realizing that you're making all the sacrifices, he can do what he wants, and you just have to take it. Until you decide you can't go on that way and go to Plan B. But only when you're really sure you can't go on - don't use Plan B as a tactic and then retract it when it doesn't get desired results.
Anyway, about your questioning him about his intentions.... I would sure love to see some other people's views on this. I'm having the same problem - my WH is living with OW, he hints he may kick her out, he says he's still thinking about returning to me - do I ask him periodically where he is in his thinking??? I think that's the same question you have - is it okay to question his motives & intentions. I do think it is a mistake to be obscure in your questions. If you want to know what he is going to do, or want to force an issue, be open.

But think about this (again my own experiences talking here, so take it with your own situation in mind). Every time I try to force issues that would further separate us, my WH starts talking that way also. If I talk about hypothetical D, all of a sudden he's talking about it all the time. But when I never mention D, when I act like we ARE staying together and ARE M, he talks about our future.

Just a thought. Sorry - I don't know if I can help you there. Gut instinct - unless you want to force the issue, leave it lie.

Good idea to set up a timeframe in your own mind though. Give yourself those deadlines. Don't tell H - this is YOUR plan. You can always change your mind if things change or if you don't feel time is right.

Hope this helps. Let us know how you're doing. Be strong. And show him the new Kimmy1 - you'll do great!

<small>[ September 26, 2002, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: SH94 ]</small>

Well. Today my H came to take me to the car dealership to pick up the car. When he got here he had some empty boxes. I asked him if they were for packing and he said yes.

We went and got the car and I talked nice and everything. Asked him if he'd like to go for a drive in the new car with us as it was such a beautiful day. He said no, he had to get back to the house and do cleaning up, etc. I said no problem.

Anyway, I was still thinking about the boxes he'd brought in so I asked him if he had started to look at anywhere to live yet. He said he had a lead on a place and was going to look at it today or tomorrow. It is 2 months since he's been gone so I thought it a fair question to ask with the current new info. I said "now it's 2 months..are you happier without me?" He looked at me and said "yes". Very, very depressing. Let's just say that I have been unable to focus on much since. I got my kids lunch and now am just probably going to lie down on my bed for a bit. Why on earth would he be happier without me? I have never done anything mean to him in 15 years and so why would he be happier without me? I just feel sick to my stomach. Any hope I had has now gone because before he wasn't looking for anywhere. Now he is.

Some are good days and some are bad...today is juz a bad one.*hug*
Don't just lose hope yet, keep Plan Aing!!! Remember, u have to be consistent in ur actions for him to notice and be patient to see the results.
Sometimes,it's two steps forward and one step back, but,hey u are progressing,only slowly and steadily.

I'm hanging in there too...and keeping notes Plan A and on ways to improve. It gives me strength and direction.
Please remember, Plan A is about you too!!!do what makes you happier. Sorrie i dun have answers to your questions. Hope this helps.

I'd be willing to bet alot of $$$ that your H is in the middle of an A. Trust your gut feelings on this issue. Your first warning was when he started referring to co-worker as his best friend. His best friend should be you!! You are the one he should talk to, not the OW. Most WS don't understand that there are boundaries in all relationships...they just don't seem to get it!! Know that most affairs do die and if they don't, the long term odds of the adulterous couple living happily ever after are slim. It's totally amazes me that the WS can paint such a 'dark' picture of their spouse in order to justify their own behaviour. Boggles the mind.

Be courteous and pleasant. Do not beg, appear desparate or probe him for information. Give him no more fuel for his little 'my wife is a terrible person' fire. If you need proof of an A, then 'dig' for it quietly. If he wants a D then let him do all the work. If he wants to move out, then fine, he can pack his own stuff, while you buzz around looking great and preoccupied with interests. Look after yourself and your children, don't focus all your energy on WH. It's pretty hard to plan A when you are overly tired, stressed and feeling like you can't be enthusiastic about anything. Do not sacrifice your self-esteem during the plan A process. Plan A is not about losing your self-respect or control of your life.

I know how terrible things may feel right now, I really do. Just remember not to make any hasty decisions and look after yourself. The day I woke up and realized I was a wonderful person and I could easily survive happily without my FWH was the day I knew everything would work out, one way or another. I was happy with myself, respected myself and knew I'd be ok. Oddly enough, my FWH recognized the change in me and it seemed to make a difference(for the better) in his behaviour as well.

Thanks for your comments. I was feeling so down today and to log on to this site and see replies is so great. It's so amazing how we all seem to be one big 'club' and we don't even know who we all are, or even where we live (by the way, I'm in Toronto, Canada).

My H has already moved out. He moved out 2 months ago and is staying with a friend, so my reference to packing is to get stuff that's still here. He basically only took clothes, important personal belongings, and I packed up all his stuff form the bedroom as I couldn't handle looking at it ..too emotional. So..I always had that bit of hope as he hadn't looked for anywhere to live yet, but now as I mentioned he has, so so much for that glimmer of hope! The one thing I have noticed is that the last 2 times I've seen him he's looked like crap! He is a very attractive man, and women have always been attracted to him. I appreciated his looks and told him all the time how attractive he was. However, he looks terrible, and even unhealthy, so I don't think he's dealing with this well at all now.

Re an A. Well, I change my feelings on this from week to week. This week I saw him so much re looking for a new car, that I thought to myself that if he is having an A, I don't know how the OW would put up with him being here all the time.

I am still working on plan A..and will continue to do so as it certainly is working better for me this way. Before when I saw him I would raise the issue of us, and get upset, etc., and he would blow up at me, and I'd feel worse when he left. The last week with Plan A at least he doesn't blow up at me and even though I'm terribly depressed and upset when he leaves, I'm not like that when he's here and he talks much more calmly to me. I make sure I look really nice when he's coming to get the kids too, so he can see I look good and that's what he's giving up.

I will definitely let him pack his own stuff. I'd decided that a few weeks ago. Mind you, there's so much stuff that it will take forever! It's amazing how much stuff people have! You don't realize until you have to pack it up. But the way I figure is every day he doesn't pack, I'm one more day ahead and better able to handle it. And, yes..plan A is great in the respect that perhaps in the back of their mind they are regretting giving up such a happy, okay person. If only they knew!!!

I have only been on this site about a week and I thank everyone who's given me input. It has helped me so much to read all the stories on this site. I look forward to more input. It really helps!! Thank you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Kimmy- wow - I totally know how you feel - I have been married for 15 yrs and bam my husband had an affair and now my marriage is almost over - next Wednesday is our court date.. My husband acted alot like yours he actually still denies alot of stuff and I know that I will never know the truth - I would say trust your gut it is usually always right...My husband also lost weight, drank alot and really just looked like hell for quite a long time - I believe it is his guilt - he is having a hard time facing what he did - Though now he is better but he has given up his home, kids, everything - for nothing - He still has stuff at my house - like tools, clothes in the closet, crap in the cellar - he just has no where to put it... It really hurts when they pull the I am not in love with you and I haven't been for a long time, I haven't been happy etc... Bullcrap - they are just looking for someone or something to blame - they are trying to justify everything in their brain so basically they can live with themselves.. I totally feel your pain... You must do what is right for you - but I would say the best thing for you to do is sit down decide what you want and how much you are willing to fight for it.... Talk to everyone here - actually there are alot of people over on GQII who I am sure can be very helpful.. Good Luck and keep posting - If you want to know if he is having an affair if you snoop a little you will find it??? If it is really there....Good Luck and keep your chin up.... It is definately a roller coaster ride....

Hi Kimmy!

When my wife told me she wanted to leave, the first thing out of my mouth was, 'who is he?'

She denied that there was anyone for a couple of days, then finally admitted to a 'friend.' Well, this 'friend' was telling her he loved her and playing kissy face with her after work.

Based on what you have told us, your H is most likely having an A with the woman you accused. Her 'freaking' when you called, his 'freaking,' then acting like nothing happened is telling to me. I hope I am wrong. You may snoop to confirm or deny the existence of the A. You do have the right to know.

My W would not tell me his name. So, I checked out the call log on her cell phone, and one number was to a particular extention at her office, and another was to an unfamiliar number. I chose to call the office number, after hours, and listen to his voice mail. I got his name like that. One night, I mentioned his name, and she was quite surprised. I told her that I was going to call him, and she said, 'ok.' Probably didn't believe me. I called him at work the next day, and he freaked. With his name and his hometown, I did a background search on him that revealed lots of interesting information. That was 5 months ago. Things have settled down now... Enough of my story...

You should definately keep up the Plan A as long as you can and keep reading here. Grab the Harley books, Surviving an Affair, and His Needs Her Needs and read them.

Please go to your doctor and get on Anti-Depressants. It makes Plan-A much easier to do. Dr. Harley himself recommends them. From the Q&A section of this site:

Link to Plan A & Plan B Info

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Since plan B (and plan A, for that matter), is extremely stressful for the betrayed spouse, I usually recommend that he or she ask a physician to prescribe anti-depressant medication to be taken throughout the crisis. This not only greatly reduces the suffering of the betrayed spouse, but it also helps keep a clear head at a time when patience and wise decisions are crucial. Anti-depressant medication does not numb the betrayed spouse to the crisis, it actually helps raise him or her above emotional reactions that would otherwise prevent clear-headed thinking. Why suffer and and make poor choices when anti-depressant medication can help ease your pain and improve your concentration in this time of unprecedented crisis?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It takes a few weeks for them to kick in, so go as soon as possible. I cannot stress how much they help!!! I could not have come as far as I have without them, believe me.

Be cool. Be mysterious. Be (at least act) happy. Act 'as if' nothing is wrong, and whatever he does is fine with you. Do not bring up your relationship.

Get advice from some old timers about the following: Eventually, you can do things to make him believe you are seeing others and moving on without him, i.e., change your hair, get new clothes, re-arrange house. When he comes over to get something or pick up the kids, have soft music playing, table set with candles, soft lighting. Smile and be friendly. I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but maybe mention some nice new 'friend' at your new job and be vague about him. Some of the other women on General Questions board can give you the full scenario much better than me! (Pepperband, Orchid, and many others have terrific advice.)

I am sorry you are here, but you have come to the right place. I wish I had found MarriageBuilders sooner, but I am glad I finally did! By carefully following the MB program, my marriage now stands a chance of survival! There are no guarantees, but MB is as good a plan as you will find.

Good luck!

NSST

Hi. Well, unfortunately I can't check my H's cellphone at all. He has it with him at all times and it's a work cellphone. So..never have access to it.

I've already read 'Surviving an Affair' and 'His Needs/Her Needs'. Both great books and that's how I found the link to this terrific website.

I am so angry today. I just feel like smashing stuff and screaming! I have to leave for work and my H will be coming soon to look after the kids while I'm gone. He is also willing to give up house, kids, whatever for the sake of 'his happiness'. Re the possible A with OW, I don't know what to do about that. They work together and I have no reason to be at their work location and as he's been gone from here 2 months it's not like I would just show up to meet him for lunch or anything. If it is her, she has a husband and 2 small children, so she'd be giving up a lot too.

I'm very interested in finding how my H plans to pay for rent at a new place once he finds it. We already live pay to pay as it is, so I can't wait to find out his answer. Perhaps he will be 'sharing the rent', if you know what I mean.

I'm just so upset and angry that he's done this to our kids too. It's very unfair that we aren't getting up on a Sunday morning as a family. It just makes me crazy!

Hi Kimmy,

I hate to say it but it sound like your husband is in the middle of an A, and i do believe in going with your gut. I have been with my H for 13 years and would never question his loyalty, we spent 5 months apart where he developed feelings for someone else, but he was adament NOTHING happened. Now, let me tell you, he was probably one of the most trust worthy people when it came to fidelity, so each time i questioned where these feelings went etc, i felt like a B**** for doing so, he was very believable. When it all came out-I found an e-mail, my world fell out around me, suddenly that "woman's intuition" means something. We are currently separated so he can figure things out (he has a lot of guilt), and she lives 15 hours away, I am not concerned about a physical A, but have asked several times if they have had contact-he swears on everything (even his own son) that he has had no contact and his leaving is because of her only because of what he did with her and he still has some feelings for her.

Now, this is where i stand, I have had to put a lot of my natural personality aside, i am a care taker, so my instinct is to push things..."We should go to a lawyers", " we should do this or that" etc, and i find every excuse in the book to call him, sometimes to make him feel guilty, or to tell him i love him..He has been gone 2 weeks now and it is taking everything in the past 3 days to leave the ball in his court and when we speak, keeping it generic. Believe me, it is working...

To give you advice on your situation, i think you need to back off like you are, if you are anything like me, you want to scream, cry, demand, etc but that only seems to reaffirm what they are doing/ Only you know your husband, do you believe that he can really not love you at all and have carried on the way he has for so long? We all know marriages fall apart naturally and people fall out of love, but usually there are signs(fighting, animosity, anger etc), if you say that was not there then i think you are safe to say that there is more to it. Unfortunately an A doesn't always bring out sure signs, WS can truly be 2 people, very content with you, then this other person....

All i can say is hang in there, and take care of yourself and your children. Let him take the first steps and just let him know you love him. I agree with not making suggestions, giving hints about what needs to be done, it seems to move them in the direction they may not have been intended...

Take care, keep us posted...