Hello everyone, I have been lurking for 1.5 years but never posted until now. MB has been very helpful to me in my pursuit of a restored and happy marriage. My WS is very irresponsible and for much of our years together I have enabled him to continue this behavior in our marriage. My husband has exhibited angry behavior for as long as I have known him, but it has gotten worse, so has the gambling and the other behaviors characteristic of those involved in an A. I grew up in an alcoholic family and are a typical co-dependent.

My husband dislikes discipline/authority/hates to be confronted. He has left our home several times when confronted or when he didn't get his way. Of course not knowing any better, I would beg, plead and encourage him to work things out. I didn't know how to set healthy boundaries. It is so humiliating when the your family and friends witness this mess. He becomes a tyrant and I become a victim in the eyes of many (not his family). Of course my husband would lead himself and others that I am the one at fault. He is the only perfect person.

My Il's (female) allow him to come and live with them rather than encourage him to be a man and handle his business. Of course they are also partners with him in his gambling activities. My husband (family to) is in a stage of desperation (close to loosing houses, apartments, cars, owe loan sharks, juice men, have pay day loans and owe family). Misery loves company.

I have always made more money than my husband, and I am grateful to God that I am able to maintain our home, take care of my son, etc. My husband is jealous because I make more money than he does and I am educated. I do have a support petition in place now (2nd time/stopped it when we reconciled in Sep 01).

When I confront my husband about his A, he denies it. The first time he said they were just friends.

When we reconciled we didn't really have a plan for recovery, nor did we go to counseling. The honeymoon stage was great but it didn't last long before the disrespectful behavior resumed (anger, gambling, Suspected A. and irresponsibility).

Because I withdrawed money out of a joint account (money he owed me). While at our home (I was at the park with son and nephew), he left a voice mail threatening to physically harm me and destroy things in our home (mostly talk/but you never know). I called the police and they met me there. (He didn' destroy anything/took a few things). I let the police listen to a message and filed a report. I go to court soon to seek an order of protection.

The OP also filed an order of protection in June 2002. She mentioned stuff like that my husband was stalking her. That her relationship has been verbally, mentally, and physically abusive. That she told him she needed time to herself. They have a two year order of protection in place. I requested to review the file and paid for a detailed copy of this report.

Although when I confronted WS about this when I discovered the court document in his car in June, he gave a different version of what I later found out in the detailed report.

Now, I am in plan B (no official letter this time/no contact). I feel like I have said it all and done it all. I am depending on God to continue the change he has begun in me, so that I will be able to set healthier boundaries for my life, marriage and my son, while trusting God for the results.

My husband is now civil when he calls. I keep the conversation brief and usually give the phone to my son. I still love him but my love has changed. I repented for the sin of idolizing and enabling him and giving him a place in my life that he should never have had. Thank you for reading.

May God give you all strength to suffer righteously in your ministry of marriage. This too shall pass.

God Bless you all,

Wisdom Rules

1. W-BS-40. H-WS-41.
2. Married 9.9 yrs. Known each other 24 yrs
3. 1-S-4
4. H put out 7/00 (physical/verbal abuse).
5. Back 9/00.
6. Left 10/00 (suspect affair)
5. D-day #1 03/03/01
6. Reconciled 9/01 (had no plan for recovery)
7. D-day #2 7/09/02
8. OP-34-Single. 1-S-19. Raising Neice-12
9. H-anger/gambling (met OP on Casino boat)
10. Verbal abuse (mostly), Physical abuse (some)

I let the peace of God rule in my heart and I refuse to worry about anything. (Colosians 3:15)

Hi WR,

Welcome to MB but you since you have been reading a while you may already be familar with many of us. Thanks for posting your story.

I am sorry for the situation you are in but protecting the rights and safety of your family is more important than the interests of the A.

How familar are you with the MB info and Harley stuff? Have you ever counseled with Steve or Jennifer?

Are there any questions or concerns you'd like to post?

take care,
L.

Hello L,

Thank you. I have followed yours and many others story and it is great that there are people willing to stand and allow God to restore their marriages/families.

I have read a lot of the material in this site as well as the books that were recommended. I have been so blessed by this web site, that there are others who are willing endure righteous suffering for the good of our families.

No, I have not counseled with Steve or Jennifer, but I am seriously considering doing so.

My most recent concern is that on Mon. morning, 12:30am, 12:45am, the OW called asking if we were getting a divorce, I responded no, then WH got on the phone (speaker phone on his cell phone), telling me to tell her we are divorcing. I said that my WH has never acknowledged being in an adulterous affair with you and that this call is the first acknowledgment of his affair (I could hear them arguing in the background). I told my husband not to allow OW to call my house ever again and that I could not believe he would stoop to such a level and I hung up.

They called about 4 other times, the last call was at 2:45am and I get up at 5am. I didn't answer any other calls and have not heard from him since then.

L, I am surprised that he called and that he wanted me to confirm anything to OW. I also give God the glory for revealing to me that they are not happy together.

I guess I don't know what to make of this.

God Bless you,

WR

Dear WR,

How cruel of the WS and OW. I finally reached the point last year where I realized one of my boundary points was that the OW had to be out of MY life. If she was to be in the WS life then he was out the door with her!!! That piece of boundary setting took a lot off my shoulders. Even endured her calling on our wedding anniversary 2 days in a row!!

I am insensed at her calls but she has a reason..... she is nuts and right now so is he!

So you have the option to let them make you nuts also or you can set your boundaries. ARe you ready for that yet?!??!? Gotta leave work right now, will check back later.....

Good to hear from you!

L.

Hello L,

I am ready to set that boundary and others. Although this is a difficult time, I do have peace in my life. I will be going to court on Monday for an order of protection and I was told that the judge can rule that WH pay child support. May God give me favor.

It still amazes me that WH can abandon their families and not support them. This is a character flaw, I guess.

By the way, was it uncomfortable being around your in-laws. I have no desire to see mine, probably because I feel that they have/are enabling my WH in the gambling and adultery.

It really takes faith in God to believe that my WH behavior will change and our marriage can really be saved. At times, I think on the things I've gone through with WH, and I ask myself if this is what I want. The marriage the way it was/is now, NO!

It wonderful to see all of the testimonies or a restored and now committed marriage, where things are better than ever. A new marriage with the same person, Yes!

Marriage builders is truly a blessing, and so are you.

God Bless you,

WR

]Originally posted by wisdom rules:

<strong>WR: I am ready to set that boundary and others. Although this is a difficult time, I do have peace in my life. I will be going to court on Monday for an order of protection and I was told that the judge can rule that WH pay child support. May God give me favor. </strong>

L: Good now you will feel some relief. Financial support has a way to help even out the pain and make it tolerable.

<strong>WR:It still amazes me that WH can abandon their families and not support them. This is a character flaw, I guess.</strong>

L: Yes it is simply amazing.....in a foglike way. It is also sad to see one sink to such a low state of debauchery.

<strong>WR:By the way, was it uncomfortable being around your in-laws. I have no desire to see mine, probably because I feel that they have/are enabling my WH in the gambling and adultery.</strong>

L: My IL's were supportive. But then again they never really supported their children directly. Major family issues abound and we were raised very different from each other. My ILs have helped me and even talked to their son about how his conduct will alienate their abiltiy to help him.

<strong>WR:It really takes faith in God to believe that my WH behavior will change and our marriage can really be saved. At times, I think on the things I've gone through with WH, and I ask myself if this is what I want. The marriage the way it was/is now, NO! </strong>

L: In these bleak times, it does take faith and almost a miracle. Don't settle for less than you deserve.

<strong>WR:Marriage builders is truly a blessing, and so are you.</strong>

L: Yes it is. and so are you. Thanks for the compliment!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

Hello L,

Getting WS financial support does eliminate some of the stress. It is better when they voluntarily support their families rather than to be made to do so. I believe my WS's lack of support is out of spite (I make more money than WS does and I am good at managing money). You have to be when you have an WH for their loyalities lie in other places.

That's great that your ILs were supportive. I know that must have made a big difference. Me and WS have very different backgrounds. My IL's appear to be afraid to confront WH because of anger, and then several of them gamble together.

He works hard to convince them that I am crazy, even the OW.

I am curious to know how much of the affair stuff do they expose to others (i.e. jobs etc.).

I want God's very best for my entire family and thank you for encouraging me not to settle for less. The comforting thing is that God is in control and He's all for the covenant of marriage and against the sin of adultery. It also wonderful to know that these affairs do die, some a natural death (which looks to be in my case), and that the likelihood of a marriage reconilliation is great.

L, what were the main things that gave you the strenght to endure the pain of an Affair until your marriage was restored? Did you have tunnel vision? What many are doing here on Marriage Builders is a selfless act, but well worth the sacrifice when you consider the long term benefits of your entire family.

God Bless you,

WR

Originally posted by wisdom rules:

<strong> WR:Getting WS financial support does eliminate some of the stress. It is better when they voluntarily support their families rather than to be made to do so. I believe my WS's lack of support is out of spite (I make more money than WS does and I am good at managing money). You have to be when you have an WH for their loyalities lie in other places. </strong>

L: You are correct. Voluntary is better but the bills do not know an attitude..... they just know they need to be paid. ..... so the next question is how to make the attitude work for the bills?

IMHO, it is more of a black and white vs attitude issue. I put my H's bills on a separate debit management plan. Mine were being paid and I stopped paying his. I am in the same boat financially as you in the wage earning field however, his bills were higher than mine. Initially I carried it all until my savings was completely wiped out. I borrowed a bit on my 401K (have since paid it off) just to squeeze by. Then when there was no more cushion, I dump his bills and went to a separate plan. Why I didn't do it sooner is beyond me!! Something about the strong desire to FIX IT, kept me going. If I had given him his bills earlier, the A may have died sooner. See the OW is very $$$ hungry. Eventually the nut realized who the real income earner was and I was not about to have an A with an OW!!! LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<strong> WR:That's great that your ILs were supportive. I know that must have made a big difference. Me and WS have very different backgrounds. My IL's appear to be afraid to confront WH because of anger, and then several of them gamble together.</strong>

Yes I did have supportive ILs but that is a whole 'nother story. See I have also been a great advocate for their children, so in a sense their support was more of a return for my efforts. They are nice people but not good parents. So my MIL apologized to me for the condition of her son and other children. The FIL has continualy thanked me but is a bit dispondent in knowing how to handle his children.

I am the one who started their 1st family meeting. Now some of the younger ones are helping their parents deal with some major major family crisis issues. My in-laws have bi-polar disorders and some serious childhood dysfunctions along with alcohol, A and abuse relationships involving the parents
and spilling over to some of the children.

Not a pretty picture. But the IQ level of their children is up there. Their emotional IQ level is in the gutter. Most are working hard on it but it will always be an uphill battle for them. These children are scarred for life and preventing that from happening to our children is a big challenge.

<strong> WR:He works hard to convince them that I am crazy, even the OW.</strong>

Typical WS/OW style. Don't be surprise if the OW embellishes it and contributes to these stories. In my case, the WS told the OW some stuff about me (not a whole lot to tell when I am a working mom without much of a life other than family and work!), so this crafty psyco OW decided to embellished and before I knew it (because BS' are never consulted - LOL), the OW had accussed me of
1. FIL is 'always over our house' so the BS is having an affair with my FIL. (re: WS told OW that FIL picks up grandson every Thursday - short school day and no baby sitter. So I make him dinner - WS felt FIL was over too much (babble)) .

2. WS told OW that he feels that I am always asking for money to pay for the bills (is that not normal when you are married)?
OW concluded that I was money hungry and poor poor WS needed to be removed from his $$ loving W. It didn't matter that I was not getting $$ from the WS to even cover the rent much less food and daycare expenses.

3. WS told OW that I got mad at him......
OW conclusion: BS is abusive and should be turned into the police, thrown in jail and have the child removed from the BS' care.

There is more but you get the picture. Crazy or what?!?!?! Eventually I got tired of all this charade and eventually learned how to reverse babble to get back some santity.

<strong> WR:I am curious to know how much of the affair stuff do they expose to others (i.e. jobs etc.). </strong>

Most cases, the WS/OP try to hide it. Yet to the BS they say it is out in the open. In my case the WS hid it from many. Until I exposed it. Now the WS does not have friends as a result. Well they are his friends but choose not to associate with him at this time due to personal beliefs tied to the Bible. They want him to come back to have a good standing with God and accept proper discipline. So they really are his friends (they check up on me periodically also - since they are our famiy's friends). H knows why and understands their position. The ball to fix this is still in his court. His road to recovery is longer than mine. We just talked about that this morning.

<strong> WR:I want God's very best for my entire family and thank you for encouraging me not to settle for less. The comforting thing is that God is in control and He's all for the covenant of marriage and against the sin of adultery. It also wonderful to know that these affairs do die, some a natural death (which looks to be in my case), and that the likelihood of a marriage reconilliation is great.</strong>

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. You will then learn when to reverse babble and yet keep a clean conscience. Marriage was instituted by God and adultery is condemed by God so you know which side God is on in your situation. The best supporter there.....

<strong> WR:, what were the main things that gave you the strenght to endure the pain of an Affair until your marriage was restored? </strong>

My love for my child, for God, posting here at MB, sharing with others the hope for a better furture in an earthly paradise, studying the Bible, attending Christian meetings (need to get better at that!!, not stopping my routine at work (as much as possible), talked with an MC counselor & Steve Harley, went to the doctor - STD testing, identify my boundaries and enforce them, love for my family, support I recieved from MB, family, friends, workmates, child's daycare, school, teacher, neighbors,
etc.

Finally, knowing that I am worth it!!!!

<strong> WR:Did you have tunnel vision? What many are doing here on Marriage Builders is a selfless act, but well worth the sacrifice when you consider the long term benefits of your entire family.</strong>

At first I did. I only wanted to fix it. I was certain the OW was a nut (she claimed prego 3 times, made demands for child support and medical coverage - U actually have to have a baby before you can get child support but hey you have to be pregnant before you have a child and she was not prego), But I was confused about the WS status (he swung back and forth as the agressor). I wanted to help my H get back his santity. It was very unlike him to do this. He was angry when a good friend of ours walked out on her family 5 years earlier.

The MBers that post here that have reached or are in personal or marital recovery or even both continue to share. For me it is giving back to those who helped me. Many here helped me. I post almost daily since I started. I even told my HR dept I did this since I could not afford to go to see my counselor every day (his office is 50 miles away), HR said it would be ok for me to post at work as long as my work did not suffer. I agreed and have done so. My postings at work have dwindled quite a bit. I mostly post at night or on the weekends now.

I don't regret posting at MB. Even during the height of the A, the WS knew I post here. At first he was angry (for quite a while) but I told him it is either I post here to vent or take it out on him and justifyably so....... he then backed off and let me post. Some MBers even have called my home and spoke with H...... A couple who are in recovery from MB even came out to visit us and they have met H. So go figure...... if the WS feels threatened.... I tell 'em come over and remove your fear.... but none of us will ever tell the WS to continue the A (unless it is in the reverse babble mode - !!!! LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Wow WR, I feel like I have just been interviewed!!! LOL! HOpe this info helps. I have started a new thread on GQII, Step over and see what becomes of it. It is about how to identify the agressor (WS or OP).

take care,
L.

L: IMHO, it is more of a black and white vs attitude issue. I put my H's bills on a separate debit management plan. Mine were being paid and I stopped paying his. I am in the same boat financially as you in the wage earning field however, his bills were higher than mine. Initially I carried it all until my savings was completely wiped out. I borrowed a bit on my 401K (have since paid it off) just to squeeze by. Then when there was no more cushion, I dump his bills and went to a separate plan. Why I didn't do it sooner is beyond me!! Something about the strong desire to FIX IT, kept me going. If I had given him his bills earlier, the A may have died sooner. See the OW is very $$$ hungry. Eventually the nut realized who the real income earner was and I was not about to have an A with an OW!!! LOL!!!

WR: It is amazing what we do for our spouses. Once you and FWS were in recovery, did it take time before you gave of yourself to the magnitude you did before the A or during it? Isn’t this forgiveness, but aren’t you more careful. Do you ever get back to the blind trust?

L: I am the one who started their 1st family meeting. Now some of the younger ones are helping their parents deal with some major major family crisis issues. My in-laws have bi-polar disorders and some serious childhood dysfunctions along with alcohol, A and abuse relationships involving the parents and spilling over to some of the children.

Not a pretty picture. But the IQ level of their children is up there. Their emotional IQ level is in the gutter. Most are working hard on it but it will always be an uphill battle for them. These children are scarred for life and preventing that from happening to our children is a big challenge.

WR: What a blessing you’ve been to your ILs. One person can really make a difference. This is very encouraging to me. I have the same concern for my s not taking on these dysfunctional behaviors. I can relate to the Hi IQ and emotional IQ’s being in the gutter. May God continue the work that He has begun in your families lives. How do you know if someone is bi-polar?

Typical WS/OW style. Don't be surprise if the OW embellishes it and contributes to these stories. In my case, the WS told the OW some stuff about me (not a whole lot to tell when I am a working mom without much of a life other than family and work!), so this crafty psyco OW decided to embellished and before I knew it (because BS' are never consulted - LOL), the OW had accussed me of

WR: I have to learn this reverse babble. What you said makes sense. These OW/OM have to say and do things to make themselves look good and the BS look bad. After D-Day #1 I actually talked to OW and she mentioned that WH said that I was crazy, which is what WH wants everyone to believe. I, like you am a working mom, (home, work, church). The OW wants to appear to be more exciting to the WS! WS seem to loose all senses of reality.

WR: Do you think it is worse when the OW isn’t married?

L: Most cases, the WS/OP try to hide it. Yet to the BS they say it is out in the open. In my case the WS hid it from many. Until I exposed it. Now the WS does not have friends as a result. Well they are his friends but choose not to associate with him at this time due to personal beliefs tied to the Bible. They want him to come back to have a good standing with God and accept proper discipline. So they really are his friends (they check up on me periodically also - since they are our famiy's friends). H knows why and understands their position. The ball to fix this is still in his court. His road to recovery is longer than mine. We just talked about that this morning.

WR: WS do sort of close themselves in with the OW/OM. Although, BS may think that everyone is accepting of their A, many are not, even those who still associate with them are not. You all have wonderful Godly friends. I heard Dr. Tony Evans do a teaching on the subject of the church and WS. Sounds like your friends are doing what thus saith the Lord. That’s great that your husband understands their position. Thank God there are those who are willing to stand up for what is right even if it means servering friendships temporarily.

Pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. You will then learn when to reverse babble and yet keep a clean conscience. Marriage was instituted by God and adultery is condemed by God so you know which side God is on in your situation. The best supporter there.....

WR: Thanks, I will do just this. It is great to know that God is on the side of those desiring to stand and uphold the covenant of marriage.

My love for my child, for God, posting here at MB, sharing with others the hope for a better furture in an earthly paradise, studying the Bible, attending Christian meetings (need to get better at that!!, not stopping my routine at work (as much as possible), talked with an MC counselor & Steve Harley, went to the doctor - STD testing, identify my boundaries and enforce them, love for my family, support I recieved from MB, family, friends, workmates, child's daycare, school, teacher, neighbors,
etc.

Finally, knowing that I am worth it!!!!

WR: I mirror much of what you said above. May God continue bless you in your ministry of marriage. How blessed your S and Family are to have a woman after God’s own heart.

L: Wow WR, I feel like I have just been interviewed!!! LOL! HOpe this info helps. I have started a new thread on GQII, Step over and see what becomes of it. It is about how to identify the agressor (WS or OP).

WR: Thanks for sharing, I will check out your other thread.

God Bless you,

WR

Originally posted by wisdom rules:

<strong> WR: It is amazing what we do for our spouses. Once you and FWS were in recovery, did it take time before you gave of yourself to the magnitude you did before the A or during it? Isn’t this forgiveness, but aren’t you more careful. Do you ever get back to the blind trust?</strong>

L: I am a giver by nature and due to parental upbringing (come from very giving parents) what I did not do was give to myself. I am learning how to do this now. Still not good at it but I just went shopping for new clothes!!!! LOL!

There is no such thing as blind trust. People are the 100% guaranteed in their beliefs. That is why are faith is being 'constantly tested'.

While I did not think my H would do this to us, in reality he did. It would do me no good to live in denial. Face reality, fix it and move on is my motto.

The only one that has my 'blind trust' is God. His support is always the same and 100% sure. H knows this. I believe it and live it.

<strong>WR: .... I have the same concern for my s not taking on these dysfunctional behaviors. I can relate to the Hi IQ and emotional IQ’s being in the gutter. May God continue the work that He has begun in your families lives. How do you know if someone is bi-polar? </strong>

L: My BIL/SIL just sent me something from I think the mayo clinic. I will look it up tomorrow.

<strong>WR: I have to learn this reverse babble. </strong>

L: Good. Practice makes perfect. Timing makes the impact hit the intended target!

<strong>WR: Do you think it is worse when the OW isn’t married?</strong>

Sometimes yes and no. If the OW has never been married I would say no. It is these married OWs (either still married or divorced) that are so brazen and bold. But no hard and fast rule. Selfishness knows no boundaries.

<strong>WR: I mirror much of what you said above. May God continue bless you in your ministry of marriage. How blessed your S and Family are to have a woman after God’s own heart.</strong>

L: Thanks for the compliment. I wish you well on your personal recovery. The marital one is up to the both of you. The personal one is well within your grasp.

take care,
L.

L: I am a giver by nature and due to parental upbringing (come from very giving parents) what I did not do was give to myself. I am learning how to do this now. Still not good at it but I just went shopping for new clothes!!!! LOL!

There is no such thing as blind trust. People are the 100% guaranteed in their beliefs. That is why are faith is being 'constantly tested'.

While I did not think my H would do this to us, in reality he did. It would do me no good to live in denial. Face reality, fix it and move on is my motto.

The only one that has my 'blind trust' is God. His support is always the same and 100% sure. H knows this. I believe it and live it.

WR: In my marriage it seemed like I gave more than my WH. Always putting WH & S above myself. Do you think if both the H and W are both meeting each others needs no one is lacking! I am learning to give to myself to.

L: &#8230;Selfishness knows no boundaries.

WR: You are right about that. I am learning to set healthier boundaries for my life.

L: Thanks for the compliment. I wish you well on your personal recovery. The marital one is up to the both of you. The personal one is well within your grasp.

WR: I am excited about my personal recovery. Some of the things that are helping me is my relationship with God/Jesus Christ/Holy Spirit, reading, marriage builders a religious based 12-step program for co-dependency in our relationships, with those who have addictive behaviors (chemical addiction, adultery, anger, gambling and etc). I am learning that regardless of the addiction, the behaviors are the same. Thank God for the resources he provides to us.

L, can you tell me how you dealt with the children longing for the WH. Son was so sad that I let S call WH yesterday evening. S said &#8220;daddy, this is S, my mommy said that she would be nicer to you, so when are you coming home? Daddy, are you coming home&#8221;? It seemed to pick S&#8217;s spirit up afterward. I can&#8217;t imagine how WH must have felt hearing his only S say those words. I thought he probably thinks I told S what to say. The effect of A on children is also painful.

God Bless you,

WR

Dear WisdomRules,

<strong>WR: In my marriage it seemed like I gave more than my WH. Always putting WH & S above myself. Do you think if both the H and W are both meeting each others needs no one is lacking! I am learning to give to myself to.</strong>

L: To my surprise, I found that the more I gave to myself the happier my H got. Go figure!!!

Later he explained that he wants me to give more to myself, yet he was always doing things that demanded more of my time. We exchanged that vital piece of info and he agreed to work on making more work for me (like picking up his clothes, washing the car, taking care of our son, regular contributions to the family budget etc.).

<strong>WR: You are right about that. I am learning to set healthier boundaries for my life.</strong>

L: Good!

<strong>L, can you tell me how you dealt with the children longing for the WH. Son was so sad that I let S call WH yesterday evening. S said &#8220;daddy, this is S, my mommy said that she would be nicer to you, so when are you coming home? Daddy, are you coming home&#8221;? It seemed to pick S&#8217;s spirit up afterward. I can&#8217;t imagine how WH must have felt hearing his only S say those words. I thought he probably thinks I told S what to say. The effect of A on children is also painful. </strong>

L: My son (6 years at the time) also had abandonment issues due to his dad's A behavior. My son is quiet but we did talk on a regular basis (at least twice a week if not more). However, the WS relationship with his son was never strong. WS did not have a good relationship with his dad and didn't interact well with out son. This change in behavior became one of the requirements for his to be allowed to come home.

Anyways, my son at one point asked to write a letter to his dad to tell him how he felt. I always encouraged our son to let his father know how he felt and that his dad did love him (even if he couldn't see it - not my words mind you - my son's). My son said he was too embarressed to talk with his dad, though he did later. So he wrote a 4 sentence letter to his dad that went something like this:

Dear Dad,
Why did you leave me and mom? Are you going to get a divorce? I want you to come home with me and mom. I love you.

Love,
J.

You know, the WS was way out there at the time but even this letter put a craw in this throat. When he came home, he brought this letter and the one from his dad with him. Imagine that. Some stuff can even penetrate the fog.

So don't underestimate the power of your support areas. They can come in any shape or size. Their power may be more than we realize. That is one of the reasons why I do not recommend sheltering the children from this stuff. They need to share in the healing process. They need to know they are a part of the family.

When all this first came out and I was a crying mess, our son thought he caused it. We both had to tell him no but he was not convinced. His next concern was how was he going to go to school since he no longer had a dad!! Imagine that! That one cut the WS to the core but his hardened heart and alien A mentality quickly calloused his heart. OW was telling him that his son was better off without him..... now you know why she pizzed me off soo much. Just one of many stupid comments.

About 2 months later (WS had moved out), my son asked when was I going to get him a 'new' dad since his real dad wasn't living here. This boy showed me he was willing to move on. I shared this tidbit with the then WS and he was hurt. But you know what? I wasn't. The pain was entirely his doing and deserved to be in his court.

L.

L: To my surprise, I found that the more I gave to myself the happier my H got. Go figure!!!

WR: This is surprising. I recall when my WH was home and I invited him to go shopping with me for a new car, he wouldn&#8217;t even go with me, and later he complained to a relative that instead of my buying a new car I should have invested in stocks. He drove a newer car and my car was 10 years older than his (my car was 12 years old). The funny thing is anyone of his family members could borrow his car except me. I know I allowed him to take advantage of me in hopes of having a great marriage. When you learn better you do better. I have learned that I must be good to myself before others will be.

L: My son (6 years at the time) also had abandonment issues due to his dad's A behavior. My son is quiet but we did talk on a regular basis (at least twice a week if not more). However, the WS relationship with his son was never strong. WS did not have a good relationship with his dad and didn't interact well with out son. This change in behavior became one of the requirements for his to be allowed to come home.

WR: Children are amazing. I often wonder how WH is feeling when son says asks him to come home. I know that it even affects me. Last night I got a call from WH, telling me that the sherrif came to AIL (probably serving the order of protection documents/got it for 1 year by default/WH didn&#8217;t show up). I told him that he brought this on himself. When S (4 years) said to him &#8220;daddy, I am scared, I want you to come home&#8230; I could hear WH saying something about the police. After S hung up the phone I questioned him about what his dad said. After a while he told me that his dad said that mommy keeps calling the police on him. (blame me) Well, I explained to S about daddy&#8217;s anger and how daddy is stronger than mommy and mommy was afraid that daddy might hurt her (WH made verbal threats to Whup my ---), so I called the police, filed a report and followed it up with the order of protection. This was a boundary I set to not allow WH or anyone to talk to me that way. We were reading about sin (darkness), God (light) and how Jesus saved us. I explained to him how daddy was sinning and that we needed to pray that he will turn his heart and life back over to God. I also stressed that his daddy does love him. That none of this is his fault.

I hated to break it down like that, but I felt that I had to tell my son as much of the truth as he needed to know at that moment.

L: So don't underestimate the power of your support areas. They can come in any shape or size. Their power may be more than we realize. That is one of the reasons why I do not recommend sheltering the children from this stuff. They need to share in the healing process. They need to know they are a part of the family.

WR: I won&#8217;t underestimate anything. My son has a way with his dad that I can&#8217;t explain. I am happy to hear that you don&#8217;t recommend sheltering the children from this stuff. They need to heal to. WS probably have a tendancy to make BS look guilty to the children to.

L: That one cut the WS to the core but his hardened heart and alien A mentality quickly calloused his heart. OW was telling him that his son was better off without him..... now you know why she pizzed me off soo much. Just one of many stupid comments.

About 2 months later (WS had moved out), my son asked when was I going to get him a 'new' dad since his real dad wasn't living here. This boy showed me he was willing to move on. I shared this tidbit with the then WS and he was hurt. But you know what? I wasn't. The pain was entirely his doing and deserved to be in his court.

WR: This alien mentality affects their ability to see the affects A&#8217;s have on children not to mention the BS. I can see from this that the OW try to flex what muscle they think they have. This is probably because of insecurity in the relationship. I often wonder how a OW with children can do this to WH children. They don&#8217;t care about the WH children and don&#8217;t want them to care for them either, or am I giving the OW to much credit. I recall when WH came home in Sept. he mentioned how he didn&#8217;t think OW was a good mother. In a way I guess it is good that WH doesn&#8217;t get son often and doesn&#8217;t have him around OW (at least not to my knowledge). Wouldn&#8217;t that be confusing to children?

I bet your son hurt when he saw you hurting. I let my son know that I am hurt by WH behavior to but that God will take care of us.

God Bless you,

WR

Lots of hugz and showers of love on your son is healing for both of you. Your little one is sooo young. No child should go through this. Another MBer's child is 1 years old. The A started when she was pregnant and they were married a few months. go figure. His whole lifetime has been this OW in his life with the WS trying to get the baby to call the OW 'mommy'...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> YUCK!!

Well, he got busted for that and a few other things. I hope he is on his way to healing but he sure has a lot to make up for.

However, her little one showed his family strength when he was able to get both his mom and dad together one time (during the A) and had them both in a headlock (an arm around each of his parents neck). They were closer than they wanted to be but not more than the baby wanted. Imagine that!!! I saw it with my own eyes!

The power of love! Amazing.

take care,
L.

L,

That is terrible that a WH would want his child to call the OW mommy, or even that the OW would want to be called mommy.

I pray that God comfort all of the children affected of those who read or post here. Children, regardless of age probably try to get their parents back together. I bet children are a big factor in WS coming to their senses and doing right by their wife and children.

Do you think that WS can make up for all the wrong that is done.

Be Blessed,

WR

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wisdom rules:
<strong>L,

That is terrible that a WH would want his child to call the OW mommy, or even that the OW would want to be called mommy.

I pray that God comfort all of the children affected of those who read or post here. Children, regardless of age probably try to get their parents back together. I bet children are a big factor in WS coming to their senses and doing right by their wife and children.

Do you think that WS can make up for all the wrong that is done.

Be Blessed,

WR</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WR,
Your question is a good one. The answer is that it depends on if the victims are willing to forgive the offender. When the WS & I met with our elders, they scripturally showed us that the offense of adultery is the only sin directed at another person where it is up to the other person (BS) to grant forgiveness. We did not discuss they children's right to forgive but I feel safe to say that they have a say also. So in a sense, my H's standing with God is partially dependent on my forgiveness of his act. Hmm..... big responsibility. If I was not able to forgive him, then I am obligated to divorce him, setting me scripturally free to remarry but he would not scripturally free.

Thru these ordeals the children are also victims. Their pain and suffering are minimized by the WS/OP. But it does not eleviate the pain carried by these little ones. So the endless cycle of abuse continues until the right person, says: STOP No more abuse. Either the WS straigtens up or the BS removes themselves and their children as far from the abuse as possible. Then a healing can begin.

JMHO,
L.

L: ...if the victims are willing to forgive the offender. ...adultery is the only sin directed at another person where it is up to the other person (BS) to grant forgiveness. ...

WR: To not forgive someone of a trespass against us (WH) is to hold ourselves captive to that thing. In forgiving them we are releasing and freeing ourselves and the WH. We must always do what we feel The Lord would do in these situations. I recall the woman at the well (had five husbands and the one she had now was not her husband)...or the woman caught in adultery by a group of men who were going to stone her and Jesus said he who is without the first sin cast a stone, no one could. He stated to her woman go thy way and sin no more. Many think that the sin of adultery is an unpardonable sin when God call s us to a higher calling which is to forgive.

L:So in a sense, my H's standing with God is partially dependent on my forgiveness of his act. Hmm..... big responsibility. If I was not able to forgive him, then I am obligated to divorce him, setting me scripturally free to remarry but he would not scripturally free.

WR: This is really interesting, but thought provoking. I often think that I am obligated to pray/intercede for my husband. Who better to pray/intercede for our WH or FWH than the BS or FBS. For it seems that during the WHs A with OP and afterwards that the BS are stronger and more stable and better equipped to allow God to use them for the good of the family. With that said I can see how their renewed relationship with God is dependent on the BS, because even to forgive the WH for such a cruel thing as adultery is showing the love and mercy of God.

The thought of not forgiving them and divorcing then remarrying someone else is frightening because you never really know a person until after marriage and sometimes years later! For the most part men are alike as women are. Some issues that couples face are generic.

Today I was told by my BIL to divorce my husband. I felt terrible and thought how can anyone tell me to do this. They are not God. I choose to follow what God has called me to. Then a CIL who is not married but expecting a second child wants to talk to me to tell me what she is doing (possibly putting her boyfriend out). In my opinion you can not compare the covenant relationship of marriage to an ungodly dating relationship. Last week she wanted to give me some cards of good lawyers, I told her that I was not seeking to divorce my WH, but if he wanted them she could give them to her.

Did you ever feel that sometime the people advising to end your marriage make it more difficult than the trial itself. I am better now, but it made me sad that so many people want my marriage to end.

WR

WR,

I am stuck at work so I have a few minutes between very sloooo reports!!! LOL

To your question, yes many with good intentions don't want to see you in continued pain so they will recommend a D. Take that for it's intended purpose but don't hold a grudge. It is hard to understand what we (BS) are going through. Not many really really know. God does.

Back to your point about forgiving. Those statements were not mine. Forgiveness is a gift from God not to be taken lightly. The Biblical accounts your listed were given for a reason. Look at the audience this was being addressed to. Look at the lesson he was teaching. Remember his audience were not always students eager to learn. Sometimes they were antagonizers out to find fault with him. Jesus handled them well.

Then step back and know that while God 'hates a divorcing', he does recognize that sometimes it is required (due to man's selfish and ungodly tendencies). So it is possible to get a divorce and still be faithful to God. Forgiveness is not a weapon nor a right. We don't 'have to' forgive but we are responsible for it's consquences. Does that make sense?

So we individually do what we can. Sometimes our line of reasoning changes. I went from not wanting a D to wanting a D as the A stuff dragged on. The whole time I had that right since each time the WS came home and went back to OW, the cycle of adultery started all over again. I was scripturally free to D and remarry until the next time I took him back as a H.

Our final decision was to keep the M and not divorce. So I am no longer scripturally free to D and remarry. Our choice and WE have to live with those consequences.

L.

Hello L,

I continue to pray that God will not hold my family and friends responsible for their advice to me, telling me to D. I am constantly asking God to take away the bitterness, the anger so that I won't hold a grudge. They think that they have my best interest in mind.

Regarding forgiviness. I bet many of the WS never thought that they'd be caught up in the mess of an affair. No one goes out looking for someone to have an affair with, or at least not everyone who finds themself involved in these destructive relationships. L, it could have been me! Thank God that I allowed/allow God to help me not to fall. I often think how much more complicated my life would be. I can never be to proud not to forgive because I would not want to fall myself or commit any type of sin and not be forgiven. I am babbling...Sorry.

At times I think about D, but those thought quickly pass as God speaks to my heart and then I quickly say "Lord not my will but thy will be done. I did say that if WH filed D papers and I would sign them. I really think he is confused and doesn't know what he wants to do.

S tries to play matchmaker. WH called tonight and I gave S the telephone. As S was talking on the phone to WH, S asked me "mommy are you going to call the police on my dad again", I did tell S no. Then S said "daddy are you coming home, my mommy said that she wouldn't call the police on you anymore". "Daddy, do you want to talk to my mommy? "Bye daddy". I took the phone thinking he'd hung up and he was there. I told WH that S is trying to play match maker. WH said I see. I informed him about S's teacher telling me that S told her that his daddy doesn't live with him anymore. That I am concerned about S. S trying to attach himself to other men (male substitute teacher). I told WH that S is so young and that although WH is ready to deal with the marriage that WH should consider spending more time with S. That I would never deny him the opportunity to see S or talk to him. I also told WH that I will always love him irregardless of the outcome of our marriage. I also told him that we could use his help financially. That tuition was due. He didn't say yes or no. He said that he tried to call us on Sat. night. I told him that we were out and that I left my cell phone in the car. I left it at that and got off of the telephone.

I do pray that he will desire to spend quality time with his son.

I was surprised that he did'nt mention the order of protection and how wrong I was in pursuing it.

L, How is it that WH/WW feel like they are cheating on the OP when seeing their BS? This is kind've warped thinking. It should be the other way around.

Be blessed,

WR

WR,

You and your son both did good. You both made progres if you consider that your info and his non retort is progress. I think it is. Let your son play matchmaker. That little one is fighting for his family. You should be proud of him. Let the Ws know that also.

Now as to your question about the WS having feelings they are betraying the OP when dealing with the BS. It is a common fogese feeling. Bet they tell the OW that same babble back. So don't be surprised.

I heard a few of those and after a while I felt he was telling me these things to see what type of rise he could get out of me. Arrrgh.... how dare he. So I played his game but on my terms (reverse babble). I told him don't feel guilty, I don't want to do anything with you anyway. Used and damaged goods is what I called him. See I used to LB a lot but I was in plan B by then so it wasn't so much an LB as it was my breaking my plan B rules by having conversations about the A. Just couldn't get it our of my head..... and he would egg me on anyway.... what a match!!!

You know I was eventually able to even laugh at what kind of couple they made. Couldn't help it, it also brought relief and made the WS feel stupid. But that was way later.

For now know that the confusion is a good sign. It means he still has not come to terms and the OW may not be as great as you think she is.

JMHO,
L.