I'm completely new to this discussion forum and this is the first message I have ever written. I have read many posts lately and even the articles in Marriage Builders. I don't even know what all the letter symbols mean, but a few of them I can figure out.

My situation is that my wife has had two A during our marriage. One after two years of marriage and the second starting in May or June of this year and ending in aerly-August. She admitted to the first one immediately and I thought we had worked things out. The second one she revealed to me only after I questioned her. She intended never to tell me because she didn't want to hurt me, the OM is married, they have many mutual friends, and both have prominent church positions. Many people will be affected if this comes out of the closet. At this point we have not been to counceling but I did asked her last week to consider this option. As far as I know the A is off and has been since I discovered it. I have requested total separation from OM and I think she has so far.

I need not tell you how painfull this is to me. Once in a marriage is bad enough, but to have to go through it again is simply unbearable. The thoughts of suicide come quickly to my mind, but I coach myself out of this because of my two boys.

Tonight we are planning on talking to each other. I will again bring up the MC issue. I will also bring up the emotional needs questionnaire. My main problem, besides the pain of the A and all it encompasses, is that I'm unsure whether I can actually truely love her again. Even if we go through counceling, work on emotional needs, sell the house and move away, can I truely love this person? Or is it just a matter of time when she will do this again? Will I always have to be looking over my shoulder? I just don't know if I can love her.

I know it has been only one month, so the wounds are very fresh, but I'm seriously considering having her move out of the house. I will ask her these questions tonight and based on her answers I feel I need to make a decision. But I'm still stuck on loving her or not in the future if she says yes to everything. Help!

Dac:

What you're describing is very, very normal for someone in your position. I was there in January/February of this year. My W had 2 affairs (As) with the same OM (other man) over an 11-year period. I still don't have a NC (no contact) agreement from her. But things are getting better.

My first reaction 2 discovering her latest A was NOT 2 ask her 2 move out - it was "How did things go so wrong?", and I've been working on trying 2 understand those things since, so that we can correct them and save our M (marriage) and family.

First, get into C (counseling) as soon as possible. Go yourself, if your WW (wayward wife) won't go. But go 2gether if she will.

DO NOT ASK HER 2 MOVE OUT!!! That you're still 2gether after discovering her A shows me that your initial reaction 2 the news was similar 2 mine - you don't want 2 blow your M apart before you understand what went wrong, right? And it's a lot easier 2 "plan A" while you're living 2gether than while you're separated. Also, it's better for your kids.

I know how horrible this feels. Only time will help that. I also remember how "non-reassuring" that statement sounded so soon after D-day. Time seemed 2 crawl for me for at least the first 3 or 4 months. But you will get through this. And your M can survive and even get stronger as a result of the work you will do and the things you will learn about yourself, relationships (Rs), M, and family.

Hang in there, and post often 2 this forum!! There are many of us here who have had similar experiences. You have the support 2 survive this!!!

I hear what you are saying. I believe our main problem was the lack of communication in all areas of our live. If we had done this then maybe both A s would never had occured. But they have. I plan on going to C and I would like her to do so also. If not for us but also to simply put our individual lives back together.

My wife is very strong willed and if she agrees with my needs then that will truly be a miracle from God (I know God does miracles). Even so, I just don't know if I can ever love her 100%. I'm afraid I can not anymore.

I hear what you are saying. I believe our main problem was the lack of communication in all areas of our live. If we had done this then maybe both A s would never had occured. But they have. I plan on going to C and I would like her to do so also. If not for us but also to simply put our individual lives back together.

My wife is very strong willed and if she agrees with my needs then that will truly be a miracle from God (I know God does miracles). Even so, I just don't know if I can ever love her 100%. I'm afraid I can not anymore.

DAC:

Try not 2 worry about whether you'll be able 2 love your W 100% right now. I believe you will with time.

What's important is 2 deal with your M in crisis, which is where it is right now. A good C will know how 2 deal with this. There are plenty that don't!! Look up Harley's discussion of how 2 find a good C on the web page. I found what he says about HMO counselors 2 be particularly true. Almost ended my M because of the bad counseling we were getting from Kaiser.

Every morning when I wake up and see her I think of her as an adultress, not my wife. We are in the same house, same bed (nothing happening there) just to keep things as normal as possible. All this is solving is me having pain every day and her getting away with an A and keeping her life totally intact.

We have told our boys that we are having difficulties right now. I don't know if my WW and I staying in the same house is also for their sake. I don't want to be selfish, but who should I be thinking of. Should I take care of me, me and the boys, or me, the boys, and my WW? The last option hurts.

DAC:

It might take a consious effort on your part NOT 2 think of your W as an adultress. All I can say is that dwelling on that will get you nowhere.

As for who you should take care of? First, YOU. Then YOU and your sons. Then, if you've got the energy, HER 2. But keep in mind that HER healing is entirely up 2 her. Not your responsibility. Focusing on healing yourself will have positive spinoffs with your sons and, eventually, your W.

Dac, you have a long hard road to travel and I wish you did not have to be here but you are in the right place.

I recommend you don't do anything right away - as far as big changes or giving her conditions. Be nice and try not to get angry. Learn all you can from this site.
Here is a good starting place.
Wat's Guide

Here is another that explains some of the abbreviations.
Listener48's links to Abbreviations

Look into antidepressants ( see your Doc) if you can't get out of the hole you find yourself in.

When you speak to her, try to get agreement about the changes, don't force things. There may be a time when it is necessarry but right now, it will be hard to do it without emotion guiding what you say.

We do care and will try and help as much as we can. Hope it goes well for you.

SS

Hello DAC. I've only been here 6 weeks but I can tell you you're in a great place if you want to save your marriage. My WW had 3 affairs, and the last one has not actully ended. It is only an emotional affair right now, but it was physical at one point. What you are feeling is normal. I don't know if anyone has suggested it yet, but you may want to see your doctor about taking anti-depressants. They will help you get through the initial shock. For me, they were about dealing with the anger. I don't know if anyone has suggested this yet, but you said a lot of people would be hurt if the affair came into the open. I just recently brought my WW's A's into open and I wish I had done it right away. I kept it a secret in the hopes my WW would not be hurt anymore. What I was really doing was helping to enable the A. When it comes into the open it is like a splash of cold water on their faces. Not very comfortable, but a very awakening experience. And you may find some allies in doing so. Is the OM married? If so, I recommend telling his W first. Then you WW's family. To my WW's family I am the greatest thing since sliced bread so the came down on her pretty hard, but it brought to light what kind of life she would have if she continued the behavior. Like I said, the relationship is not completely over with OM#3, but it is just about there. There are many others here much wiser than I, and can help you out a great deal. I suggest you give Cerri a ring, she is usually on the Just Found Out board. Good luck, you've come to the right place.

DOH!! Just realized this was JFO, I feel like a [censored]!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Sorry.

Thank you all for your inputs. We will be talking in about one hour. It sounds like I need to cool my jets a bit. Problems is my jets are burning with anger now. Pray for me. I will still ask the questions about C and emotional needs questions. Hopefully this will be a step in the right direction.

I'm still not sure I will ever be able to love her.

Thanks.

It is the worst time, I know. My husband had several affairs. I have dealt with much of the same questions your dealing with now. The advise and support here has been a god-send to me. I agree that one affair is terrible, multiple affairs are devestating. For me I struggled with not only the betrayal of my husbands actions but with the inadequacy I felt about myself. I fluctuated with hating him and then hating me. My point is marriages can survive. Everything is a choice. Yes there are factors as MB points out that make or break a marriage but just as your wife chose to have affairs she can chose to be the wife she should be. And you can eventually chose to allow healing take place in your heart. It is a process that will continue my whole life and yours. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.

ayslyne

Thank you again for all that have responded to my posts, and for those how simply read them and prayed.

My W and I talked for two hours last night about all kinds of things. I asked her to go into C and she said no for now. She agreed that I could seek C (of course) so I could get a grip on my depression. She says that she is not motivated to work on our marriage when I'm crying, throwing up, angry, depressed, or all of the above. If she sees progress in me then she will consider it. I think this is an excuse and told her so, but I need the C anyway so I will seek it. Today I plan on reading about how to seek a C and go through with it.

She also tells me that she does not love me. This really hurts. An A hurts bad enough, but to have had the A and then tell me that she doesn't love me is a double stab. The A is over sexually but she still has feelings for OM. I guess that's call an EA now. This all sucks.

Someone out there asked if OM is married. Yes he is - 25 years to his high school sweetheart. He has two teenage children.

I did not ask her to leave the home last night based on the responses from this discussion board. I was ready to toss in the towel earlier yesterday. Thanks for stopping me, I think.

DAC,

I am sorry that you are here but since you are, I think you will find many of the articles of use to you. I would strongly recommend that you do the phone counseling with with Steve Harley or his sister Jenn. THey are very good, and frankly what they do is more coaching than traditional counseling. It seems to be very effective in restoring marriages.

Your W's comments while very harsh are not unusual unfortunately. You must realize she is still very deep into the Affair. Personally, I would not ask her permission for anything, but simply do what you need to heal and get yourself grounded. I would strongly urge the counseling. I am not so sure about bringing the affair into the light of day. It is an LB (love buster)but it does cause reality to hit the situation.

Here is a very short version of the approach here. Plan A, is the first part of the effort. While in this plan you focus on yourself and your healing, but you also focus on meeting your W's needs and no LB's. Don't expect any of your needs to be met. This last point is very important. Why?

Because you cannot go indefinitely without your needs being met. So Plan A has a definite time limit. What is the limit? When you are finding it harder and harder to not LB, but you still feel love for your W, you need to go to plan B. Here you separate yourself from your spouse until the OM is out of the picture and she is ready to consider rebuilding the marriage.

Plan B has two advantages and the following purpose. The purpose is to preserve the love you have left. It will slow the drain of what Harley refers to the Love Bank. Just as her comments last night hurt, plan B prevents you from being in that situation.

The auxcillary advantages to plan B, is that the OM has to meet all of her needs. And you get used to life without her. This means that if she doesn't end the A and want to rebuild you are better positioned emotionally to continue to the divorce.

There is much more to say, but my recommendation is for you to consider Plan A and address your role in the state of the marriage before the affair. Most of what your W will say will becoming from what is termed the "fog" around here. In another words don't believe anything you hear from her, and pay attention to her actions.

THis is tough stuff, but you can make it through this. I hope something I have said will help.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL. An hour ago I called a Christian Counseling team but wouldn't you know it - I got the answer machine. I left my name and number. Also today one of my clients came to see me and he happens to be a retired Marriage Family C. I opened up to him and asked for C referrals. It felt good to unload.

The general advice I get from everybody is to take care of myself first, so that is where I'm going to start.

I also hear that I need to follow Plan A and not expect anything in return. This sounds like unselfish love, or true love. Problem is that I don't love her right now and I'm not sure I can ever love her in the future. I'm stuck between two worlds. Both worlds are very painful.

DAC,

It isn't a problem if you don't love her. It is simply how it is. The point here is the situation can change and it obviously has changed once. The real issue to address first, before all others is: Do you want to save this marriage?

If you don't, then it is time to move on. BUT,before you do this I would suggest two things. One give it some time before making your final decision, and Two, make darn sure you understand your role in the marriage reaching the stage where your W had an affair. This self evaluation about how well you met her needs, how much you did or didn't contribute to the marriage, etc. is crucial. Why?

Well, most second marriages fail. One very obvious reason is that the people didn't learn squat from their first marriage. I am of the opinion that you owe it to yourself and your children to learn from this marriage and improve yourself in areas you feel you were deficient. If you do that, and this is a very good site to do that on, your next relationship and perhaps marriage will have a much better chance to succeed.

Hence there is a reason to hang in there for awhile. YOU need to learn a few things and your W oddly enough coupled with your own introspection can help. Not directly but by the things she does and doesn't do, the things she says and does say. I think if you view things from this perpsective you will learn and you can more clearly and rationally decide if you want to save this marriage. You may not have that option as your W may not want to either. But, take full advantage of this situation.

You won't believe this now, but this is an OPPORTUNITY to learn how to make the rest of your life much better, with your W or without your W. So while you are deeply hurt by all of this, see if you can back off abit and learn: about yourself, your role in things, and yes even about your W.

Finally, since this is a church related affair and these two people apparently have some positions in the church, I do feel the Senior Pastor should be made aware of what has gone on and what is going on.

I hope something I have said will be of use to you.

God Bless,

JL

You are probably right.

As far as the church thing goes, both have dominant roles in two different churches. He is a deacon and worship leader at his church, and WW is the piano player for the worship team at my church. They do not attend the same church thank God. Do you still think both pastors should know? WW doesn't want anyone to know about the A. If I tell then I think she will walk out on the marriage.

I went to the doctor yesterday and was prescribed an anti-depressant. My WW is mad that I'm taking medication but I told her it is my body I need to this if if I want to remaim human. I also scheduled my first counseling session for this Thursday. I must concentrate on fixing myself physically and mentally now.

At this point I feel like not saving the M. The problem is that when I'm with my WW I feel most at peace. I still have anger, shock, jealousy, and disappointment when I'm with her because of her A, but these feelings are greatly intensified when I'm not around her. I know I can't be with her 24 hours a day so something must be done. Maybe I have a co-dependancy thing going on here. Or maybe I know she can't hurt me again if I'm right next to her. Counseling should help about this. Anyway, small progress for me, zero progrress for WW.

Hello Dac. Sorry to see things are the way they are. Good decision for the ant-d's by the way. Also, I cannot say enough, tell everyone. It is true when they say A's cannot stand the light of day. Before I brought my WW's A's into open I was afraid she would walk out on marriage. As I said it was one of the best things I could have done. I think if these people play a prominent role in their respective churches (especially a worship deacon) the pastors have a right to know who is "leading" his congregation to God. I would also strongly recommend telling the OM's W. She has a right to know also. Your W will most likely be very p'd at you in the beginning, but really, what right does she have to get mad? It was her own actions that led to this anyway. I cannot say enough, tell, tell, tell. And then when you are done, tell some more. Tell the pastors, tell BOTH of your family's. How do you think her parents will respond to her when they know what she's done? JMHO. Good luck DAC.

My WW is mad that I'm taking medication without first getting a full physical and blood work done. She says the medicine might be good but it also might be bad if there is something medically wrong with me. Since I only took one pill I thought I might as well get the physical done. I haven't had one in over 14 years anyway.

The medicine I'm suppose to take is Paxil. Anybody out there have good or bad experiences with this stuff? I read that it can have have bad withdrawal side effects.

This week I'm trying to get a physical, meet with my Pastor, and meet for C for the first time. I also have a talking time scheduled with WW on Wednesday night. We are suppose to go over our ENQ and to be honest I don't think she will be the one for me in the future. We'll see.