Dac, I really feel for what you are going through right now and totally agree with madly_truly_deeply's post.

The best advice I received was from a friend who had gone through a similar experience. That is why this board is so benificial, it shares information from those who are or have been going through the experience.

Your priorities right now should be your health so you have the ability to take care of your children. Get it together and take care of those boys. I call it the "survival mode." With those priorities in mind, I would suggest if your wife being in the same house makes it uncomfortable for your children, you make a decision.

I understand how one affair is bad enough, but two is something I would not know how I would react. Your feelings of not knowing if you could ever learn to love her 100% is normal.

My own personal opinion would have been to see if you could have made it through the experience without the use of any of these medicating drugs. I feel any drug does have side effects both good and bad. Hope and pray things get better.

DAC:

It's certainly a show-stopper for the A 2 see the light of day, and one of the ways 2 do that is 2 inform key people that it's going on. But BE CAREFUL. You will find from this website and many who post here that one of the downsides 2 informing the OMW is that she may toss OM out, which would make him "available" 2 persue your W. That may not happen, though, but unless you know them well enough, you can't be certain how they're likely 2 react (some react violently, 2, and you don't want 2 feel responsible for that).

I highly recommend anti-D medication. I'm taking prozac, and haven't had any noticeable, deliterious side effects. The benefits far outweigh these, in my opinion. But your own situation may be different. In my case, the biggest benefit is that I don't experience the rollercoaster lows at all like they were before I started taking prozac, and that's helped me not LB at all. And THAT will work in your favor more than you can imagine. So do consider them.

Take care,

I'm starting to heavily consider asking her to leave again. We plan on talking this Wednesday night and I feel like I need to end this. Last night she looked at the ENQ and said she would not do it. So now as it stands she wont go to C, wont do the ENQ, doesn't love me and thinks she may never have, and has only cried because I asked her not to ever see OM ever again. Am I being stupid or is this too obvious that we are over? It has only been 5 weeks since d-day. Plan A sounds great but it seems that the BS must love the WW for it to possibly work. If both parties don't love each other then what do you have left? I think a decision needs to made soon.

DAC:

"I'm starting to heavily consider asking her to leave again. We plan on talking this Wednesday night and I feel like I need to end this."

This 2 is normal. It really HURTS 2 face this stuff! But think about it... do you really believe that, by asking her 2 move out, you'll feel any better? Think about it some more.

"Last night she looked at the ENQ and said she would not do it. So now as it stands she wont go to C, wont do the ENQ, doesn't love me and thinks she may never have, and has only cried because I asked her not to ever see OM ever again. Am I being stupid or is this too obvious that we are over?"

Are those my only 2 choices? Look, DAC. MOST, if not ALL of your frustrations are directly correlated with the fact that it's only been 5 weeks since D-day.

"It has only been 5 weeks since d-day. Plan A sounds great but it seems that the BS must love the WW for it to possibly work. If both parties don't love each other then what do you have left? I think a decision needs to made soon."

It's a bit more complex than that. I think you probably do love her, or what she's done and is saying 2 you wouldn't bother you at all. Think about THAT. Your love for each other has taken a big hit - you took a hit because of your discovery of her 2nd A, and she will probably say she's taken a hit because you weren't "there for her" when she needed you. Your M is broken at this point. You could choose 2 fix it 2gether, or even you unilaterally could choose 2, or you could blow it apart right now and file for DV. If you do the latter, you run a very serious risk of going through the same trauma with someone else at a later date - because you won't have done the requisite self-improvement work that plan A is really about.

Don't blow this oppor2nity 2 make your M better than it ever was before by moving 2 plan D so soon after D-day.

Thank's 2long. You seem to have a positive attitude about life and marriage. If I continue to stick it out how can I meet her needs if she is unwilling to tell me what they are? If we do fall in love some day in the future I feel like I will always be looking over my shoulder waiting for her next A. That doesn't seem fair to her or me. That can't be real love. I just can't handle being hurt again.

<small>[ September 23, 2002, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: DAC2002 ]</small>

DAC:

"Thank's 2long. You seem to have a positive attitude about life and marriage."

Well, thanks! I certainly do believe in them! My atti2de hasn't always been positive, though.

"If I continue to stick it out how can I meet her needs if she is unwilling to tell me what they are?"

You have 2 guess and try different things and watch for her response. Seriously, I STILL don't know, in any detail, what ENs my W needed that I wasn't meeting. She won't fill out an ENQ. I've had 2 try different things. NOT LBing works best of all.

"If we do fall in love some day in the future I feel like I will always be looking over my shoulder waiting for her next A. That doesn't seem fair to her or me. That can't be real love. I just can't handle being hurt again."

Nor should you. Over time, if you do find your love for each other again, forgiveness and trust (on both sides) will come. When you can trust each other, and love each other, she won't NEED 2 have another A.

Hello DAC. I truly believe you would not be here if you did not still love your WW in some form. Yes, 2long is very optomistic. Why not? As for me, I'd much rather laugh than cry. Lord knows I've done plenty of crying. One of the biggest lessons I had to learn after D-day was that Plan A was not about winning back my WW, it was about ME, and me alone. Yes, it is a strategy to seperate the spouse from the lover. But in the end it is about YOU, making you a better person. Once I finally realized that, things began getting better much quickly. My WW and I have a long way to go. We are still seperated. But things are getting much better. We talk more often, and more importantly, we have MEANINGFUL talks more often. As for meeting her needs when you still don't know them, again 2long is right. Not LB'ing goes a long, long way. Just preventing the LB's can get her to open up to you a little more about her EN's. Not LB'ing is probably the best thing you can do right now. No talking about M, no talking about OM, just be how you would imagine yourself as the perfect husband. It is about making yourself better. Hopefully it helps her "see the light" and come back to you, but if not, her loss and it will make you a better H for someone who deserves it. As for looking over your shoulder, that will take some time. But if your WW ever gets seriouse about working on your M, it will ease. The sting from my WW's A's has already begun to subside, and I don't dwell on them nearly as much. The pain is still there, and I still don't trust her completely, but it is getting better. It can with you too. One of the biggest things I've found is that you can't really get over/forgive the A's until the WS WANTS to be forgiven. Like I said, my W and I still have a long way to go, but each day my hope grows a little more. She still cannot honostly say she is "in love with me". Nor would I want her to if she doesn't, but she is trying. And I think I can honestly say I believe she has been completely honost with me the last few weeks. Mostly becuase I've been snooping. She was mad at first, but she understands why now and doesn't mind as much. Your situation is obviousely different from my own, but I hope this helps none-the-less. Good luck, and remember, don't give up until your absolutely and honostly sure you're ready to.

Just poking in to see how you're doing DAC. Give us an update when you're ready.

Thanks for checking up on me.

All weekend I cried as I agonized what to do with my marriage. I finally came to realization that I can not change the past, I can not pretend my WW A's never happened, and that I can not change my WW. Only she can change herself, and that's only if she has God's conviction to do it. At this point I have to concentrate on me and my boys. I came to a point Tuesday morning that if this marriage is over then so be it. All I can do is learn from this horrible experience, make myself stonger because of it, and move on with life with or without WW.

Tuesday morning I spoke with my church Pastor and told him everything. Boy was he surprised. He is greatly disappointed with my WW but still loves her as a person. He has been her Pastor since she was 5 years old. She is now 38.

I told my wife Tuesday morning that I was going to talk to my Pastor. She said if I did then we can forgot everything. I responded kindly by saying, "We can make arrangements then". She can no longer use her influence over me.

That night we never brought up the subject of my session. Tonight (Wednesday) we have our scheduled weekly talk time. This could be make or break night.

I'm still not convinced that I want to remain married to her. When d-day came back in August my initial reaction was save the marriage because my marriage was all I knew in life. For almost 14 years this all I've wanted and known. I gave and gave and gave while she took and took and took. I realize this can not continue. We both should be giving 100% out of love and not out of fear of losing the other person.

Sorry for writing too much. This helps me sort my thoughts and expose my innerself.

If any of you out there pray then please pray for us. Thanks.

I am most impressed with how you have handled your situation (especially regarding your wife's control issues), and wish to thank you for your continued postings. This thread has really helped those of us unwilling to sacrifice our core values just to keep a false peace.

Best Regards,

Vision Cubed, thank you for your reply. My path in life right now has been very difficult to say the least.

Tuesday I spoke to my Pastor and told him everything. WW is very mad that I did this and feels like I'm trying to get back at her piece by piece. I feel like I'm trying to get my life back together. I can only change me. She has to decide if she wants to change or maintain a false witness. Since she is the lead pianist for the worship team she thinks she will have to leave that position. Music is her life and this would be heart breaking for her. I said, "I'm sorry if it has to come to that, but once again the decision not to follow God has consequences beyond just our marriage relationship". God knows we aren't perfect - that is why He sent Jesus - but he does desire a repentant heart, and I don't think she is completely at that point yet.

WW and I spoke Wednesday night. I asked her to move out of our house and she refused. She said she would never leave her children. I told her she already has when she and the OM were having sex in our house. This is the home of her children and BS. Every room has pictures of our children, family, and Wedding. Once again her decision to have the A crossed the line of risking losing everything. She still refuses to leave and said if I'm uncomfortable being in the house then I could leave. I'm still thinking about this one.

I also asked her how a D would effect her. She said some things and I think she finally realized where I might be heading. I'm still not 100% sure at this point if I want a D, but I'm leaning heavily in that direction. This is one of those life changing decisions that shouldn't be made quickily but eventually must be made - one way or the other.

To make matters a little bit worse - as if they aren't already - she says she still does not have any feelings for me. I replied that I know I loved you at one time but that love has been killed. I too do not love love you and my never be able to in the future. The integrity of person is more important than the outside beauty or special skill one possesses.

Sorry I wrote so much.

Do not move out until you have consulted a lawyer. In some states your moving out would be considerd abandonment and could greatly affect you far as custody/visitation.
Get a consultation with a lawyer so you can get some ideas of what your options are. It doesn't hurt to be informed.

Thanks for that bit of advice. I had not thought about it that way.

Dac,
There are reasons we advised you not to have her move, and to be careful what you say and to plan A for a while.

The WA's almost always act like your wife. They show no remorse at first, and often it takes months before they want to work on it. Often the BS's change their mind and want to keep the marriage but sometimes it is to late.

If you know you want a D, ( and we don't blame you if you do) then go ahead. BUT, if you are still trying to figure it out, please hold out for a while and plan A. I can tell you straight out that your wife won't want to reconcile with someone that is angry and shows it all the time.

Now, again, if you know what you want, go ahead. It is usually much better to wait and cool off and see if they change and become repentant. You can always tell her later ( after a good plan A ) that unless she seeks counseling and takes other steps you will seek D.

I also recommend that you be careful how you word things. You can say:
" I don't love you and may never love you again. "
Or:
" I don't understand my feelings right now."

Both are true, are then not? But one sounds so negative and one leaves things open. Remember that she will say all kinds of hurtful things, they always do, but often prove to be false. You don't need to give them back to her just because you are hurt. I recommend saying something like " It hurts when you say those kind of things, but thank you for shareing your feelings and being honest with me." It keeps her coming back to talk to you but it enables you to be honest about what you feel. Also, if she realizes she needs to come clean and repent, she will know she can talk to you, that it is safe to do so, and that you care about what she says.

Please read this link about one member that just figured out plan A.
Finally figured out plan A
There is perhaps another side to this that you should consider.

I don't want to minimize your pain and hurt but if you want to save it, don't burn any bridges right now.

SS

<small>[ September 27, 2002, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Well DAC you sound like you are in the same boat that I was in over the last year.

I too found out about an affair in January. I worked on myself for 6 weeks believing everything she said. That everything was because of me. That I was the bad guy in everything. So I recognized that I did have some things that I could definitely improve upon, still knowing that I didn't cause this behavior, but thinking that I might be able to improve enough to preserve my family. Then I found out about two more concurrent affairs in February. Man that was hard to deal with. She was having 3 affairs at once, saying that it was all because of me. Haha, I think back on it now and just laugh at the obsurdity.

Well, I STILL wanted to work on my family, and she begged me to take her back. So I spent the next 4 months working my tail off trying to forgive, and change even more. She was not working on herself at all and we still had a few problems because of it. I no longer held everything in, and she just couldn't deal with the fact that I was no longer the whole problem in her life. I had changed to the point that even she could see that it wasn't all me that was causing her problems. Even she couldn't blame me for eveything any more. So she waited until I passed my Oral boards and within 2 weeks wanted out of our marriage.

I believe that she had reentered her affair with one of the men before we ended, but if not, I know that she had him in her heart and mind, because within 2 weeks I found out she was sleeping with him again. I realized at that time that I could never trust her again. I did not respect her, and although I still felt a twinge of love for her, it was not the unrelenting and unbound love that I had always felt. It was a reserved sense of the past. I could not trust her at all, because even after all I had done, she decided that it wasn't enough.

Now for the 4 months I had some difficulty being able to refrain from triggers that brought up the memories of her infidelity. The lengths to which she had gone in order to fulfill her desires with a 10 year younger married father of 2 children less than 3 years old. Also the lengths she had gone to cover up the other two affairs.

I realize that this woman only represents the mother of my children at this point. She loves them, but has no real concept of what that entails. But I no longer care what she thinks. When I finally realized that I could never trust her or respect her again, I was free from her. When I realized that even in the best of circumstances I could never love her like I want to love my wife, I was free of her.

You must find your own way, but I must say that this realization allowed me to understand just what I was leaving. My wife actually wanted the divorce and I was fighting for a few weeks to save our marriage. But I realized that one person cannot make a marriage, but one person can certainly wreck one.

Take care. Come over to the divorce board. That is where I am most of the time. Even if you are not sure, you might get some ideas about what to expect in either case.

I've moved to Divorcing/Divorced forum.

More sad days ahead.