My H has decided for sure that he wants out of this marriage (see other posting for story). He found a smaller house not too far away and wanted to have it for himself and for the kids weekly switch. I said that we could not afford to totally outfit a 2nd home with everything the kids might need and should have to make their life comfortable. Also I think it is terrible that children are the ones who have to pay the price by living out of suitcases and going to "moms" or "dads" place - never their home!

Anyways to make a long story shorter - I suggested that maybe we should be the ones to switch off in the house instead of the kids and it would be better for them!(I really don't want my marriage to be over but ??) I had mentioned this one time last week and he totally discounted the idea as too weird, but I thought at least initally it would be better for them to stay put with schedules, friends, buses to school etc.being the same as usual.

My only condition to H is that he must agree to go to MC with a fresh counsellor for 6 months and if at the end of the counselling he still felt the same that I would go to separation mediation counselling (his idea). I am hoping that this gives 6 months to check out the possibility of resurrecting the marriage and family. The worst that could happen is what would happen now anyway and the best is that we stay together and own a revenue property to boot!We would have to draw up rules of respect and behaviour (no dating for 6 months)and that protects the choice for me to reclaim the family home with the kids if it doesn't work out for some reason!

Do you think this might work, did I do the right thing? Am I crazy to think this might be a workable solution? Has anyone have any experience that might be applicable here? Please advise!
Shelita

Well it would appear that H is and never would be willing to go to MC. The deal I was willing to make with him was a fraud!

I have, without really knowing it, been in a moderate Plan A since D-day August 8/02.It was something I had decided was best for me at that time as I needed to feel good about myself! I have been reading endlessly and searching for the magic fix, is there really one out there?

This evening I was in the computer room and was printing out Dr. H's article about finding a good MC,this was part of the deal I thought, and felt that my only chance is to find a great MC, not one who will mediate a separation! H walked in to see what I was doing and saw what was printing and had a freak out session. He said I was taking it too far and he was not ready to go to MC. I was so stunned by his gut reaction that I felt totally broken and hopeless! Which is probably exactly what he wanted in the first place. I had made a nice dinner earlier in the evening and it had ended in disaster with one of my sons saying something about being discussed with his D and H jumped up and said he would leave now. I sure he was feeling hurt but I had warned him about how the boys were feeling and that it would be a hard road to regain respect from them! They are dazed and confused, they love him but are taking their anger out on him with his misdeed and his desire to leave being what they see as the cause of their unhappiness. They do know that I am willing to be open to the chance that we can rebuild the marriage and come out the other end intact and quite happy! They also see that he is not!!!I stopped him from going by saying to him that his actions were not very adult in nature and was not going to be something that would make anything better with them!He stayed and the next thing I know he is upstairs in the master bathroon in our room with the two younger kids comforting him in his tears! I felt like I was the bad guy! Although I was happy to see that they want him to feel emotionally better I felt it was sad that they had to comfort him instead of him trying to find a way to make their lives better by doing everything he can first before deciding to end the marriage! Why can't he see that MC could be a better alternative than walking away!?

I really thought that if I could get him to some MC that H would see and accept that we could have a chance! I feel devestated that I won't get the chance to rebuild what to me is so important for all of our futures!

I am here at 3am becase the minute my eyes open my mind reels and I feel empty and so terrible sad sad. I look over at H and see the man I love so dearly is not going to have his head on my pillow for much longer. At these times the strength that I want to feel leaves me and hopeless sadness sets in so strong I have to leave before I weep!

I am lost! and not feeling too phenomenal right now!

S

S,
I am so sorry for what you are going through.
I don't have much time now, ( and I don't post much on weekends, sorry) but will come back and try to visit with you about what is happening.

SS

I've been told many many times, unless they make the decision to do this, it is hopeless.

Another thing is to start to try see what life will be like after.

I am too fighting for my family. But after 4-months after notification my wife wanted out, I have to come to reality that anything I do, only makes things worse.

I too pitched the idea of sharing the house separately, but she was furious.

You need to get down to the grass roots of why H things the marriage is over.

I agree with the no dating, if he rejects, he probably already is.

My W is afraid if someday she shows up with another M on her arm, I will kill her. After the divorce, I hope I don't have to see her again, other than at children swapping.

I know I am a better person than her, she will end up on her face, and then it will be too late.

I am going to hold on for a little more time, but after that, it is over.

Start looking out for the children, however hard it may be, it is what you need to do.

My H has decided for sure that he wants out of this marriage (see other posting for story).
I don't think we know that yet, we know he SAYS he wants out, but many WS's say that.
You will know for sure only if he files and then only when the D is final.

He found a smaller house not too far away and wanted to have it for himself and for the kids weekly switch. .......... I suggested that maybe we should be the ones to switch off in the house instead of the kids and it would be better for them!

I worry about doing this. Usually it is good for the WS to have the results or consequences of their actions. In other words, he should suffer the result of setting up the other house, moving, living alone, being lonely etc.

My only condition to H is that he must agree to go to MC with a fresh counselor for 6 months and if at the end of the counseling he still felt the same that I would go to separation mediation counseling (his idea). I am hoping that this gives 6 months to check out the possibility of resurrecting the marriage and family.
That's a good idea but looks like in the short term, it won't work ( from what you have said later.)

Well it would appear that H is and never would be willing to go to MC. The deal I was willing to make with him was a fraud! Often they " change their mind" about things. Often it doesn't work well to make deals. Here is a link to some info explaining (somewhat) how he is thinking right now.

Wat's Guide

I have, without really knowing it, been in a moderate Plan A since D-day August 8/02.It was something I had decided was best for me at that time as I needed to feel good about myself!
Good, plan A often works! But you should know that sometimes it doesn't. One of the best things about plan A is that it improves you so that you will know you did the best you could and you will have no regrets either way this goes.

I have been reading endlessly and searching for the magic fix, is there really one out there?
I have not seen one yet. HOWEVER, there are some slow, difficult ones that take a lot of work. Are you up for it?

This evening I was in the computer room and was printing out Dr. H's article about finding a good MC, this was part of the deal I thought, and felt that my only chance is to find a great MC, not one who will mediate a separation! H walked in to see what I was doing and saw what was printing and had a freak out session. He said I was taking it too far and he was not ready to go to MC. I was so stunned by his gut reaction that I felt totally broken and hopeless! Which is probably exactly what he wanted in the first place.

If you have read WAT's guide, you will understand when I say that his thoughts won't be very clear for a while. He may say things and then contradict himself shortly after. You need to have a plan and work it no matter what he does.

I had made a nice dinner earlier in the evening and it had ended in disaster with one of my sons saying something about being discussed with his D and H jumped up and said he would leave now. I sure he was feeling hurt but I had warned him about how the boys were feeling and that it would be a hard road to regain respect from them! They are dazed and confused, they love him but are taking their anger out on him with his misdeed and his desire to leave being what they see as the cause of their unhappiness.
So what does he expect? Everyone will say " That's OK Dad, you can do whatever you want, tear the family apart, desert us, move out, and nothing will change." Give me a break.

They do know that I am willing to be open to the chance that we can rebuild the marriage and come out the other end intact and quite happy! They also see that he is not!!! I stopped him from going by saying to him that his actions were not very adult in nature and was not going to be something that would make anything better with them! He stayed and the next thing I know he is upstairs in the master bathroom in our room with the two younger kids comforting him in his tears! I felt like I was the bad guy! Although I was happy to see that they want him to feel emotionally better I felt it was sad that they had to comfort him instead of him trying to find a way to make their lives better by doing everything he can first before deciding to end the marriage! Why can't he see that MC could be a better alternative than walking away!?
Yeah, and why did Hitler want to take over the world? This is called Fog, and it doesn't make sense to anyone but him. He is not rational right now and may not be for a while. One problem is that he can be rational about things like getting the car repaired and then switch back to Fog mode when he discusses you and your marriage. Don't be fooled by it, and try not to react to it.

I really thought that if I could get him to some MC that H would see and accept that we could have a chance! I feel devastated that I won't get the chance to rebuild what to me is so important for all of our futures! I am here at 3am because the minute my eyes open my mind reels and I feel empty and so terrible sad.
MC would help a lot but you can't force him. Just love him and plan A.
You would benefit from counseling for you even if he won't go. Please consider it. ( or did I forget, and you already are?)

I look over at H and see the man I love so dearly is not going to have his head on my pillow for much longer. At these times the strength that I want to feel leaves me and hopeless sadness sets in so strong I have to leave before I weep! I am lost! and not feeling too phenomenal right now!

This journey you are on has been described as a rollercoaster ride. One day you are up, and think you can make it, the next, you are down and wonder if you can ever make another day. It all goes by so fast, and you seem to have no control. MC would help, but it can be done with out MC right now. Others have done it and you can do it if you are willing to do the work.

You need a plan. You need to do something each day for you, even if he won't respond. Often over time the WS will respond. There are many things you can learn on this site but perhaps the shortest and quickest way is to get "Surviving an Affair" by Harley and get started with your plan. As I said, it helps you as much as it will help your marriage.

Please know that we care. I wish I had been able to respond sooner, I know you were in pain. Sometimes we are able to respond multiple times in a day, sometimes it is a few days between posts. We all are just people like you trying to help each other.

Lastly, here is a story of someone that perhaps was in worse shape than you are, and recovered her marriage. Hope it gives you strength today.
Lostva's story

Go about 6 down to Lostva's big post ( there is a small one only a few down, go past that.)
Please tell us how you are feeling.
I will pray for you and your family.

SS

Hi, sorry you are having such a hard time but as SS says its a long slow battle to try and win back their minds from the fog. My story is on Genral Questions- Is Love Enough and i have been at this for over a year, slowly I am seeing changes but am still not sure where we will end up.
You can only do what you feel is the best for you and your children, and if you think and H is willing to swap houses to give your children stability then maybe thats the eay forward- but as has been pointed out that doesn't really allow H to feel the full consequences of his actions- . I know because in order to giver my children stability i have allowed their father free access to my home, and that may well have delayed his realisation of the cost of his actions- however for the childrens sake i wouldn't have done it any different.
Hope you find strength and inspiration from reading these boards.
Jante

Good Morning all,

Last night turned out to be very interesting! We received an email from one of our oldest S teachers, it would appear he has started to act out of character in class. THis is not like him, he has, to this point been very respectful and a good student. #2 S is also more angry than usual! I brought the email to H attention, and said now is the time! We have to do something constructive, because what we are doing is having a terrible affect on their hearts! I suggested to H that if he needed to go and do his thing he should! So we talked to all three children about what we were thinking and asked their feelings. When it was H turn to talk he told them he didn't know what he was going to do! After the kids had left the room H was talking to me about maybe staying a working on M with a MC! He said that was what he was thinking at that moment, but it could change tomorrow! I said I knew that.

Later I was reading the MB postings and H started to look over my shoulder, slight sarcastic remarks about how I was portraying him were emminating from him. I asked if he would like to read what my postings were as I felt that anything I wrote was the truth in my persepctive and he could certainly think what he wanted! I think he was surprised to read what people had to say, he said it was interesting but he has trouble understanding why I would want to tell my personal life story to strangers! My response was I felt that my parents could never totally understand as they have been married 55 years! and you can only burden friends so long and they get uncomfortable with hearing it too often! So that this was my way of sorting our my thoughts and looking for likeminded people to provide me with some level of support through this very emotional rollercoaster called marriage!

So this morning H left for work, quiet and slightly reserved in form. He came to me in the kitchen and gave me a kiss on the cheek and said he was leaving for work. I said see you later!

We have tickets tonight to see The Tragically Hip in concert at the Jubilee Theater, I think we will go for dinner and then go the the concert. I hopeing that I can be in full bloom tonight in Plan A and have a great time with him! Wish me luck, I need to keep up the calm strong Plan A demeanor, it seems to be the only way that gets his attention and gets him thinking!

Talk to you later.

S

Morning again!

Some days it seems so hard to get the motivation to carry on and create something positive in the day!

All 3 kids acting up this morning, it was all I could do to get them out the door to school without blowing my top!!

H got his workout clothes on and left before they did, it is easy for him to escape the noise. Never once did he think that it might be a good idea to work together to get them on their way!

I am trying not to be p***sed off but it has been like that most of the time and that is one of the things that I would feel resentful of. He felt the ease to come and go at his pleasure while I was responsible to see the kids were looked after first! before I could go about my plans.

I know H is in the depth of a depression, he swings from quite introspective moments to all out anger and nastiness! I hope that he realizes this and gets some help,even temporarily, to enable him to climb out of the fog and get to work on issues surrounding him, myself and the children!

In the meantime I pray that I can keep myself on some kind of even ground, there are times when I feel so low and hollow with hopelessness. Most of the time I can recognize the moment for what it is and change the thought process at that time!!

Last night with H at the concert was okay, we had a bite to eat and a drink prior to the start. I guess I am changing my tastes, not too crazy about overly loud music, hot bodies crowding me and having to stand for hours to see anything! Wiold have preferred an evening at a jazz club, sitting, sipping and mellowing out!

H was not very attentive towards me, but I really didn't expect much so not overly upset. Would have been nice to see him happier, he usually really enjoys those kinds of events!

Well, must get ready to get to work, have a large event we are catering today. Have to get floral arrangements etc this morning. Would rather stay home and read and relax. Not to be!!
Thanks for lsitening!!

S

From your sept 24 post about your son, they often translate their hurt and fears into these kinds of actions. I am glad H was willing to talk about it.

I don't know what to say about him reading over your shoulder. I hope we didn't make him mad.
Some days it seems so hard to get the motivation to carry on and create something positive in the day!

All 3 kids acting up this morning, it was all I could do to get them out the door to school without blowing my top!!

You are not the only one that feels this way. I usually help my wife in the morning these days, but it took quite a few years. Much of the time I fix breakfast and drive the older children to high school ( I go past it on the way to work.) If I had to leave early for a long comute I probably would not. It only takes me 10 minutes to get to work. If you have resentment about these kinds of things and it comes out in the way you talk, it won't help the marriage right now. ( you can work on this stuff later, after he knows he wants to stay.) Husbands can be trained but the carrot works better than the stick.

In the meantime I pray that I can keep myself on some kind of even ground, there are times when I feel so low and hollow with hopelessness. Most of the time I can recognize the moment for what it is and change the thought process at that time!!

It's hard for all of us and what is happening right now makes it worse for you. I am glad you can do something about it. Many people think they are at the mercy of their thoughts and don't realize they can do something about it.

I am sorry the concert did not go as well as you hoped. Keep doing fun things and be as fun a person as you can. It's not fair that you have to do all the work both at home and in the M but if you want to save it you have to do it right now. I hope you find the strength. Rember to look for the good too, there is nearly always some of that along with the bad. Comment on it to him when you find it, it helps.

Would rather stay home and read and relax.
Wouldn't that be nice !!!
Oh well, back to work for me too.

SS

I have read all your posts and I truly am sorry that your going through all of this agony. I somewhat lived through a similar experience and I know the pain and frustration your experiencing. Your H seems very confused about staying or leaving, he may still be talking to the OW and she maybe pulling on him. Sometimes giving up the other person is very hard. My H felt that he was truly "in love" with the OW and wanted to end our 17 year marriage. I asked him to give me 6 months and we would work on our marriage through C and by trying to re-commit to the marriage. He would agree one day and the next he would change his mind and say that he would still stay in contact with her because they were such good friends. I was absolutely devastated. Finally, I suggested that we go out to dinner and talk with hopes of resolving this for both of us. While at dinner I reminded him of who we are as "US" that we are each others memorizes, we are each others history that who we are today is what we have become as "US". That who he is today is a factor of who we are as a couple. He sat very quitely and listened and at the end of my passionate statement he said " that was the most powerful statement that I could have made and it made absolute sense to him". It was like he had gotten hit over the head and I can't believe I finally after several months of pleading and begging for this marriage was able to find the heartfelt words to make him understand who we were and where we had come from to make "US". I don't know if you have seen the movie The Story of Us but my H who never watches those types of movies watched it and it really hit home.
Be patient, be strong in yourself and if at all possible see if he will watch the movie with you. Because at the end it all boils down to the history a couple has, their memorizes, their years together as a couple, their family and who they are because of each other.
I will be thinking of you and hoping that you find strength in yourself and can project to your H what he will be giving up if he leaves.
When are people going to get it, marriage is not suppose to be disposable, relationships are not disposable they take work and committment but in the end they will be truly rewarding.
My H and I are now married almost 19 years and still working on being a better version of "US"
Hope some of my words helped.

Hi Friends,

It is always so good to hear other perspectives!

I have changed my mind about H and I rotating places in the home, I don't think that H is ready or able to deal with the emotional fallout the kids are feeling now and it is only bound to get worse!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
The kids have said they want to stay in the house with me, so I guess it will be that way until we see how things stand with H and his rollercoaster ride.

I am determinded to offer unconditional love to H, I really do want to feel that way!I would love to have him stay but cannot deal with riding along on that emotional coaster with him forever. I will continue to try to listen and show my respect and love for H and his fog.

H has not said whether he is staying or leaving? Maybe he is waiting for something to happen to show him the way! Is is really hard not to go up and hug him and tell him I love him. I don't think he would welcome that, so other actions will have to show they way! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

After the last few days with the children (boys being angry, acting out and the 9 yr old daughter trying to be the peacemaker)I really think I need to get them into some kind of family counselling. I have an appt with mine on Tuesday so will talk to her about how best to approach and start the process.

Maybe H will decide to go to MC for sure - that would really help us to see for sure if we can make it together or if as he thinks - "never been a good marriage"

On a happier note - I started belly dancing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> lessons last night. I am going to have so much fun!! Dancing has always been a great love of mine, did lots of it as a child. I want to feel sassy and sexy again, I know it will lift my spirits <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I tell H that maybe someday I will dance in Greek resaurants to make $$. LOL

Over the last two months I have dropped pants sizes and pounds. I keep focused on this positive!! It is the only silver lining I can see!!

Going to chinatown tomorrow with family for dim sum and hopefully some respite from the storm! Bought the DVD Monsters Inc today and will watch it with the kids tonight. Weekend should be good!!
H away part of next week again so will have lots of time to be quiet and think!

Have a happy weekend if I don't get back here before Monday (doubt that, always need support!)

Thanks everyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Shelita
Got to get back to work!