My wife told me she has lost the spark. I've since improved myself in every way, lost 30lbs, back to school, making more money, kinder, more housework and I initiated counselling.

We had been through 4 sessions with the counsellor. When I recieved an anonymous call informing me that my wife was having an affair. She then gave me my wife's email password.

All my fears had been realized. She was leaveing counselling sessions with me, and going to work to meet a co-worker in the elevator for make out sessions.

We were once very happy, I think we can be again.
There is this distance, she hasn't shown me affection in months. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. We have been together for almost 12 years. We have 2 children.

I need someone to help me find a way to bridge the gap between us. She has said she is commited to fixing this problem but it seems neither of us can drop our guard long enough to reconnect.

She is distant and I can't break through the walls she has been maintaining.

My wife and family are the most important things in my world

I am crushed and in need of ideas.

Keith

I am crushed, I cry when working, at school, anywhere. I need some help and everyone I speak to tells me to leave her....please someone help me, I feel like I'm dying. The pain is so terrible. please someone help me wake her up.

Keith

Keith,

Your situation sound very much like my own. Wife was distant and uncaring about the relationship(she lost the spark too), married for 14 years, two children, a few counseling sessions, me changing myself, her departing from our marriage bond on more than one occasion, etc.. The final blow came when she had an affair a little over a year ago.

I thought with all of the improvements I made on myself would work. I thought her feeling bad for me would work. I thought putting pressure on her would work. But none of my strategies made a dent in this situation for two reasons. One, something had to soften her heart. Two, I relied soley on myself for a remedy. There was nothing I could do on my own to pierce that hardened heart of hers. She was going to do whatever she wanted despite my best efforts. It wasn't until I turned it over to God when things began to get better. It may sound silly or like an old cliche but prayer and patience are sometimes your best ally. It has been a few years of ups and downs, heartache and turmoil, but things are finally turning a corner.

During my time of self changing, God allowed me to develop a tremendous level of love for my wife and that carried me through many of the downs in our relationship and kept me believing that good would one day triumph. Prayer and persistance, my friend, and putting it all in front of the Lord to handle was my best course of action.

I read somewhere that in one of Winston Churchill's last speaches, that lasted only three minutes, he said, "Never give up....never, ever give up....never, ever, ever give up." Something to that effect.

I'll keep you in my prayers,

Jetes

Thank you so much Jetes for replying to me, I have lived with the never give up attitude my entire marriage. It's nice to hear someone tell me something other than "kick her out". I am having so much trouble living with all this love I feel for her. Even now after all the terrible things she has done, I want nothing more than for her to hug me and tell me she loves me and that everything will be ok. I long for her in every way, I want to be proud of my wife and our marriage. I feel so invisible.

Thank you so much Jetes for replying to me, I have lived with the never give up attitude my entire marriage. It's nice to hear someone tell me something other than "kick her out". I am having so much trouble living with all this love I feel for her. Even now after all the terrible things she has done, I want nothing more than for her to hug me and tell me she loves me and that everything will be ok. I long for her in every way, I want to be proud of my wife and our marriage. I feel so invisible.

Keith

Hi Keith,

Relax is easier said than done, but relax. I am a fomer BS (betrayed spouse). My wife had a fling almost 2 years ago. It was an EA and PA (emotional affair and physical affair). I came here as you have looking for some kind of answers.

There were quite a few people that helped me through the worst time of my life. I have come back to try and give back some kind of help for those that are struggling to repay the kindness given to me. I won't have all the answers but to be here for you and to help all I can. There are a number of great people on here that will also help.

Now, saying all this - the first thing I had to realize was to relax. I literally was comatosed in bed for 3 days. I couldn't move! I was floored but also relieved because everything finally made sense why my wife was acting that way. Sounds alot like yours. There is nothing you can do right now to go backwards. Look forward and learn. Read this site. The books are wonderful but alot are told right here in the MB site. Don't push your wife. She will need to come to the realization of wanting this marriage to work. All you can do is change you. You may need to talk to a doctor about the possibilities of medication for depression or sleep. This all depends on you and your reaction.

Could you give us a few more details on yourself, wife, family, marriage and affair. Will help myself and others help you. The best thing I heard throughout this horrible situation was it was going to get better. This will be a roller coaster so it will also go down before coming up and so on. Keep that in mind. Ok, let us know some answers and we'll go from there. And as Jetes said, never give up, ever! This is soooo true!

Keith,

That "kick her out" advice is a cowardly and selfish reaction whether it was given by someone who has ever been in a situation like this or not. Selfishness is a marriage killer. We are supposed to be selfless and that selflessness brings about good rewards.
You said that you have had that "never give up" attitude throughout your marriage. That is great! You are a man of great stature and strength and you will be able to handle this.

Find ways to continue to show your love and care for her. Continue to be a selfless giver in the relationship. For a while now I have been buying roses for my wife about once a week. The grocery store we go to has great deals on flowers. Also doing things around the house without being asked and other little deeds that you can think of that are small but courteous.

"Worth It" is right. Find some way to relax. My wife and family are my life too and relaxing in this situation is a hard thing to do. Turn it over to God little by little.

Jetes

I am 31 my wife is 30. We met and fell in love 2 months later she told me she was pregnant. Not by me but her previous boyfriend. I weighed the options and stayed with her, and assumed the role of father as well. We lived together for a few years and the topic of another child came up. I was hesitant because I felt unsure of her feelings for me at the time. She tried awful hard and for months she showed me her love every day. I was convinced. We tried for a while and she became pregnant. When pregnancy was confirmed, her face dropped and I knew something was wrong. She became convinced this wouldn't work and after much begging and pleading on my part, she aborted the baby leaveing me on the floor crying as she left the house.

I weighed the options, I already loved my daughter and knew she needed me, i loved my wife as well and knew she was not being herself and that something was wrong. I stayed offered support and love. She then hid that she was spending time with another man. She ended our relationship and I left. She continued with him for a month. Called me one day after she spent time alone and we decided to work it out.

We married, eloped a year later. And had 3 years of happiness and growth. She went back to college and at the year end party she got drunk and she kissed another man. She felt guilty but again I stuck it out. Later one night I went to my friends place to watch sports and have a couple. She was mad, she went to her friends drank and called a guy from her class. He picked her up and they spent hours in a dark parking lot, "talking".

They exchanged their feeling for each other and then subsequent emails. I found them. I stuck it out. A new job and many lesbian co-workers then had an effect, she went to a gay bar, drank to much, was followed to the washroom and a girl kissed her and she kissed back. I suspected something that night because she had lied about where she was. She has always denied it, until I was given her email password by the anonymous caller. She has now been working with the girl she kissed and the guy she's having the affair with for 2 years. They sit next to her. They are both pulling her in different directions, each of them don't know about the other.

About what I think I did wrong, I had the unfortunate luck of being laid off or getting injured and being unable to work. At present I am not working full time, I do some stuff on the side and my employment insurance makes up the lost money, but I still feel resentment. I am in night school. I think my wife thinks I am irresponsible because of being laid off.

I'm sorry to say this, and I have been reading your posts and was really on the side of making your marriage work, but after the next to last post, about her and the lesbian and boyfriend, I'm sorry but I have to say it too. KICK HER OUT.
She has NO respect for you or your marriage. You are one GREAT catch and sound like a great person who is tooooo loving and tooooo understanding, and tooooo accommodating and she is taking full advantage of that. You need to find someone that is going to appreciate you for who you are and how wonderful you are. Not someone who is going to do what the he$$ she wants to and then know that you are going to be there to pick her up when she falls. You are too good for her. Sorry but thats just my opinion. I would love to have someone like you!

I'm sorry to say this, and I have been reading your posts and was really on the side of making your marriage work, but after the next to last post, about her and the lesbian and boyfriend, I'm sorry but I have to say it too. KICK HER OUT.
She has NO respect for you or your marriage. You are one GREAT catch and sound like a great person who is tooooo loving and tooooo understanding, and tooooo accommodating and she is taking full advantage of that. You need to find someone that is going to appreciate you for who you are and how wonderful you are. Not someone who is going to do what the he$$ she wants to and then know that you are going to be there to pick her up when she falls. You are too good for her. Sorry but thats just my opinion. I would love to have someone like you!

KeithP,

I have been posting here a long time. I have seen many marriages saved by the program here and strongly believe in it. BUT, your situation that isn't going to be solved by this approach. If you stop and read your written history here, you will see that your W has no idea what a relationship really is. You are not going to be winning her back, because she was never there. She has huge issues and she needs serious counseling before you could consider making this a marriage.

She is with a lesbian and an OM, she went with you while having another man's baby, and apparently she got pregnant by yet another man while with you and aborted it while having you raise the one child. Does this sound like a woman that is "just not having her needs met?" I don't think so.

KeithP, she needs serious help and until she gets it you have little chance of ever having a good marriage with her. I would also like to suggest that you do some counseling as well. I strongly suspect you can do much better than her, but you have to make these decisions.

The folks here will help you all they can,but this is not just an issue of missed communications, not meeting needs, or many of the other normal issues that affect a marriage. It may be true that these issues are present and they can be addressed but there is MUCH more here.

So keep posting, but strongly consider Plan B and pushing her to get counseling for herself.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ September 30, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Keith,
Your first post said you were seeing a counselor together. I assume (?) this is marriage counseling. Do you feel confident in the direction your counselor is taking y'all? If so, great! Does your counselor know anything about this lesbian/OM attraction? Perhaps you should see your counselor alone and ask his opinion, since he already knows some of the other pieces that go along with your particular situation. It is quite common for counselors to see couples individually too. This way, he can direct you, but also see your wife alone, and direct her. She obviously needs specific help.

Just Learning made some very good points. But, having said that, there are children involved. Does your wife have sole custody of each child? Or are you on the birth certificate of either? That, and your involvement with them (present and future) may need to be known and weighed before you fully step into Plan B.

I must tell you all that I have not posted all of my failures and faults. I only had enough time for an abbreviated version of my side.
I have to say I'm not feeling to good about the posts I have recieved and looking back on my posts, I have to make sure you know that we did have many happy times. And although there has been some major upsets in our marriage, I don't think it is all her fault. I know I have been depressed for a long time, I have not forgiven her totally, and sometimes I bring the bad times up and throw them in her face when we are fighting. I feel like I have taught her that I can't be trusted by doing this. I have gained alot of weight and become lethargic. I never feel loved enough and I shrug off responsibility and put my blinders on instead of working harder. When I get laid off, I fall into a deeper depression and my wife resents that she is the breadwinner and she must take the lead on everything. I feel that she has come to see me as a burden on her life instead of someone to lean on, and this type of behavior is escapeism. There is no excuse for what she did but I think I know my part in how she gets there. When the stress is high in our life as it is now, because money is tight and we are not connecting. For all the reasons above she gives up on me. Since she told me she lost the spark, I felt a reality in her voice that I had not heard before. I realised what I had to do and started vigilantly to make changes. It was too late, she was opening up to other people about us and they took advantage of that and helped it along. We have been talking for a week now, and she has promised to formally end all communication with the 2 other people, and work at us. I know she can be very determined so my hopes are high. We do a lot of talking, now we must put them into practice. She has been hostile to me for so long now, it seems even the sweetest words from my lips are taken negatively and brushed off. If I can get her to drop her guard and trust that I can be trusted and that I'm not a burden. I know we can break through.

I thank you all for your concern and caring words but she is my wife, and she is falling. As long as I have not tried every possible way to break the walls between us, I will never give up, this is the greatest gift I can give to my family.

I love her.

Hi KeithP,
I'm so sorry about your emotional state. It sounds like you were already standing close to the edge with your job situation, but this last affair just pushed you over the edge.

It might be too late to try to get your wife to participate in filling out the emotional needs and love buster questionnaires, but it is a start.

Your wife sounds like a serial cheater. No amount of changing on your part will change her because it will have to be a willingness on her part to make better choices. It sounds like she has an emotional need for an attractive spouse, maybe? Have you been able to find out anything about the other men? Do they look like you in any way? Are they slim guys? Just curious...

About the lesbian thing, I don't know what to say? It almost sounds like your wife just used you to have a father for her child. It seems like that from the outside looking in. And the baby that was aborted--was yours, am I right? Gosh, that must hurt just as much as all the affairs... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It does sound like you have a tremendous amount of love for your wife to be willing to overlook her acts of hostility toward you. But it still does sound like you hold a lot of resentment too, because you do hold everything against her as you admitted that it comes out during heated discussions...

Since you are turning this over to God, I am in agreement with you for His will to be done. I believe that He can change her heart and turn your wife toward home. In the meantime tho, you keep working on becoming a better you. The only person you can control is you. Don't be an enabler. Don't be codependent. You can still love your wife and detach from her drama while she figures out whether or not she is gay or straight, married or single. Good luck to you!

Read this:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

<small>[ October 01, 2002, 02:51 AM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

Yes I think the attractive spouse need is a major factor. My wife is amazingly beautiful, and I'm not biased, she is the same height as I am, about 6 feet, she is beautiful in the traditional sense.
This latest fling is with a guy who is only 23, I have to say that none of these flings have not got to the sex stage. As far as physical affairs go, she has just got to the kissing stage. Still terrible I know. Since we've been married I have gained about 100lbs!!! I've been depressed for as long as I can remember, even before meeting my wife. I have been assessed and am now on anti-depressants, although things are terrible right now, I think I am dealing with this better than the last time. I have lost 35 lbs as of today, and am maintaining my appearance much better. I was slim and in shape when we met, I am a far cry from that now, while she still seems to becoming more beautiful every day. She still gets asked for i.d. at the bar, she is 30 and has had 2 children. The drinking age where I am is 19. I don't know if I have any merit with this thought, but I feel that even if I was slim, she needs me to be taller. Impossible I know, but we are the same height now and I see all the men in her family are 6'2" and taller. Tall slim guys are her preferance I think. I wonder if all other factors are in place, could height be a real issue? Yes the baby aborted was mine. I know during that time she was under tremendous pressure from her father. No excuse but she has a terrible relationship with her dad, when her parents split up, she actually overheard her father tell her mother that he didn't want to take her, he wanted her brother. And that's what he did. She has always been looking for his love and his opinion is always right. She moved in with her dad a year before I met her, during that year she had many lovers. Her relationship with her father has just started to get better, he seems to realize now how important family is and is talking more to her.

Update and question

My wife agreed yesterday to send each the girl and the guy an email stating she wants nothing more to do with them. When I returned home I found that she had only sent one to the girl, she said because the girl and guy were both working tonight, she didn't think she should send it to both because they might talk to each other about it. I read the letter she sent and it was very to the point, "don't call, talk or email me anymore starting right now"

I thought that although it was direct, it didn't explain enough and I thought that they would not understand and try to change my wife's mind. I expressed this to my wife carefully and kindly. And she immediately said that it was hard to do and I should appreciate it! And that it's just not good enough for me.

I told her repeatedly that I was about to say thank you and that i do appreciate it, it's the first step to bringing us back.

It seems like I am dragging her kicking and screaming, how am I to believe she wants to work at this if everytime I talk to her, she is angry at me?

I tried to recover the situation as I was tucking her in at the time. I told her I appreciate it very much, it means alot to me, and I love you very much. She replied "Goodnight"

I am stunned, I want to scream at her until the demon that's in there leaves. It's hard for me to be positive and try to work at it, but when I express my love for her and she rejects it, it's crushing. And I didn't have the affairs!!!!!

What kind of bizzaro world am I living in?
Am I doing something wrong?
Should I keep expressing my love for her, even though it hurts when I don't recieve it back?

need help

Keith

Hi KeithP,
Weight gain takes such a toll on us, doesn't it? Don't give up on yourself. I believe that there is a post that would help you--by BrambleRose on GQII called "Detachment with Love" something like that? Do a search and see if you can find it and read it.

I think you should let your wife know that you love her and are there for her without expecting anything in return. If you can be sure that your love is inconditional, then it won't matter if she receives it or rejects it, right? It's just there and it will be there until she is no longer confused. Unconditional love remains even when rejection is prevalent because it seeks not its own. Just be a giver. Your wife is in serious taker mode right now.

Another good read: Giver and Taker by Willard Harley...

Anyway, I think right now, you need to just focus on taking better care of yourself. You can't give to anyone if you are in need of better health--mental/emotional and physical. I think exercise would help you get out of your slump if you can find the motivation to get jumpstarted on some type of program. It really does help the brain combat depression, exercise, that is... Your body is probably a lot stronger than you realize, just go for it and see! I'll be out here in cyberland rootin' for ya!

Don't focus on your wife's actions or reactions to you right now. She sounds like she is very confused but it does sound like she is trying to please you. Give her credit for telling the lesbian woman to 'get thee gone!' I think that says a lot. That's one step in the right direction.

I also agree that searching for the love of a father is a root cause of so many young women becoming promiscuous. You know? Looking for love & approval in all the wrong places.

Nevertheless, this is about you right now. Focus on you. You can't control her OR her reactions so just forget about it. You need to take control of you and pull yourself together. You can do this! Your daughter needs you to be stronger. <<<<HUGS>>>>

Thanks BINthereDUNthat

I have been trying very hard to get in shape and it has had a beneficial effect on the way I look and I feel. My love is unconditional for her, I think that has been demonstrated many times in our time together, I guess I need to stop looking for compensation for the things she has done. I have trouble detaching myself from the problem enough to concentrate on my own improvement. I feel like I'm wasteing time if we are not always working on it, and because of the importance of the issues at hand, it just makes no sense to me deep down to step back.

To top it off, I have this "anonymous caller" who is feeding me all this information, I don't know who she is or why she is doing this, is it the lesbian, or a friend of the guys? Either way it has to be someone at my wife's place of employment, because she knew my wife's password for her internet mail. She only calls when my wife is at work (another clue) and she tells me my wife is still at it. I get the distinct impression that this caller wants us to split badly. After reading articles on forgiveness and recovery, the last time the "caller" called I told her immediately that "i don't know what her intentions were, but thank you, you probably got this out in the open just in time. And saved my marriage in the process. So please don't call anymore, I don't need this" She got obviously mad, telling me that my wife doesn't love me and I shouldn't be with her, she said my wife is feels trapped by me. And why am I still there, can't you see what she wants and it's not you.

I hung up.

I feel like I did the right thing, but because the "caller" was right before a small part of me feels like I just hung myself. That now I will have no way of knowing for sure. I know that's not a good way to live, and I have to let go of that if I am to forgive my wife and move on. Confused is an understatement in my case. What a freaking soap opera I'm living in.

I think the caller is out to break us up?

What do you guys think?

Kieth I think its time for you to remove yourself from this situation. I do not mean leave but what I do mean is stop focusing on her and only do things for yourself. Get yourself Healthy again mentally and physically. Let her see that you to have a life and if she chooses to share her life with you then thats great you'll be there if not then you must move on. Sometimes showing someone that your not totally dependant on them shows individual strength and that might attract her back. It sounds like there is alot of crap going on in the back ground here.
Do not show that you are weak and can't live without her it will just push her away. Be strong physically and mentally Show her that you can live happily with or without her. Maybe this will make her think twice.
Good luck

Carl