I discovered that my wife of 30 years has been having an affair for 1 ½ years.

Let me first tell you about us. My wife and I met at college and married young. I was her first true love. We had three children – all now grown - We lived around the world and little by little I climbed the corporate ladder and with this began to neglect my wife’s needs.

Several years ago, I trained a young man and brought him under my wing – he grew as an individual and I had a strong friendship and bond with him (he is 11 years junior of my wife). Unfortunately, because my work required long hours and much travel, he would often spend considerable time with my wife helping her with different everyday things – running errands, fixing the car, etc. My wife had strong convictions and I could not (or refused to) see the signs until the evidence became so overwhelming that I confronted her. She denied the relationship. I saw too many excuses by her to involve this person in our life – he would come for visits every other week and spend the weekend - and I began to snoop and found her love letters to him. I then confronted her again, and she again denied the relationship.

Finally, after two days of anguish, I again confronted my wife and showed her the letters – the last written on Sept 28– irrefutable proof of her A. She then acknowledged it but said she had “slipped” only one time and that it was over now for two months (despite still seeing him, supposedly always in my company - still writing him love letters).

My wife and I had a long tearful discussion where she professed her love for me and that the other was just “romantic love”. She said that she was in love with “love itself” more than with him – however if you read the love letters, they were powerful professions of eternal love and full of different glimpses of their stolen moments together.

I told her that I also felt guilty in having neglected her emotional needs and for constantly creating LB. She agreed to write OM a letter and let me help edit it. Coming two days after her earlier love letter, he certainly must have been perplexed. She told him that she had told me about him (OM). Now a couple of days later we still haven’t heard from him (I am pretty sure because I have watched her like a hawk since).

The next day I continued to look for more evidence and discovered that she had been having a full affair for a year and a half and had been intimate with him on many occasions – some even on dates of our own special meaning – anniversary, etc. – I again confronted her with this new truth and she again, reluctantly admitted that she had indeed been with him a lot but again insisting that the A had ended – at least the physical part – two months ago. We had another tearful session and agreed to work on Dr. Harley’s plan A and to try and deal with the emotional needs to restore our relationship.

I love my wife dearly and I believe that she loves me. Unfortunately, she also has a special love for the OM – special favorite place, special nickname, favorite song, etc.

I have changed phone numbers and erased his number as best I can but I know she is vulnerable if he tries to see her – and I think he will try. She insists that she wont even speak to him but I have my doubts.

I also am unsure about how best to apply the radical honesty in that it has been hard for her to admit to anything. I seem to have a need to understand her relationship with him – for her to tell me about all the things they did together, their favorite song, food, etc so I can be more aware of the signs or memory triggers in the future.

I know I have to build our love units and develop a plan together -

I have some questions that I would appreciate comments on:

1. should I ask about details of her sexual relationship? And if so, in full graphic detail?

2. should I ask about details of her favorite things with him – food, songs, pet names, etc. – how much am I allowed to pry before I am creating LB?

3. The OM is on a tourist visa but working in this country illegally – should I turn him in? If so, do I not risk hurting my wife?

4. Should we tell our children – should we tell our parents – friends – co workers – for now we have agreed to keep it secret.Alternatively, could I tell family and friends that our friendship with OM was compromised by another incident - unrelated - and that we are not associating with him anymore.

5. What other advice can you give us to help recover what was an incredible relationship that we both stopped working at – probably me more – what should be our next step?

Thanks,



JASMAB

<small>[ October 03, 2002, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: JASMAB ]</small>

JASMAB,

Sorry to see that you are here. But glad that your W says that she wants to maintain the marriage.

You asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. should I ask about details of her sexual relationship? And if so, in full graphic detail?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you need them for your healing then by all means ask. It is expected that the WS reveal the details if the BS needs them. It is part of radical honesty. However, think very carefully about why you want these details, because you will have them for the rest of your life. I would suggest that you write down what you want to ask, and then why you need this answer. I realize that some of this is to complete the picture so you have some idea what has happened in your life besides the lies. But be careful. Also, it it has helped some WS's to see the questions written down, so that they can think about them. But you have to feel your way along on this one.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2. should I ask about details of her favorite things with him – food, songs, pet names, etc. – how much am I allowed to pry before I am creating LB?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Same answer as before. How many triggers of their affair do you want?? This is for you to decide. Yup, she won't feel very comfortable about revealing her lies and the love affair, but if you need the answers then she needs to provide them before you can begin to regain trust in her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 3. The OM is on a tourist visa but working in this country illegally – should I turn him in? If so, do I not risk hurting my wife?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, you have touched on a very interesting issue. If she still loves him, and the odds are high that she does at this moment, getting him booted out of the country will be a set back and not part of plan A. Really the less he is on your mind and her mind the better at this point. I got the impression he worked for you, if so your company should be aware of his status and be doing the legal and correct thing. As an American, it annoys me that our immigration laws are abused, so on a personal level I say get rid of him, but that may not be best for your marriage at this juncture.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4. Should we tell our children – should we tell our parents – friends – co workers – for now we have agreed to keep it secret.Alternatively, could I tell family and friends that our friendship with OM was compromised by another incident - unrelated - and that we are not associating with him anymore.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well if you plan on rebuilding the marriage the fewer people that know the better. Yet if the A continues the bringing of the A into the light of day often ends it. I do think explaining to people that you and your W are not associating with him anymore is a good thing. THe reason for this is not for them to know really. It is simply a fact. As for your children, I don't seen much to be gained right now by telling them. Perhaps if divorce becomes a reality they might need to know what broke the marriage up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 5. What other advice can you give us to help recover what was an incredible relationship that we both stopped working at – probably me more – what should be our next step? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Frankly, I think reading His Needs Her Needs as well as Surviving an Affair both by Harley will help. You both could benefit from following Harley's rules for a good marriage. The rule of time, the rule of radical honesty, etc. Counseling would really be good, but only with a really good promarriage counselor. THe Harley's are very good and it is phone counseling. This really isn't an ad for them, but there are some issues here that you both need to deal with and having a 3rd party can help. This is especially true as she goes through withdrawal and she will.

One of the hardest but most effective things a BS can do is listen to the WS as they let out their feelings for the OP (other person). If she will talk about this stuff with you, it will allow you to comfort her, and it will allow her to open up to you. Good things, but very hard to hear.

Well, I am certain you will get more advice. I hope what I have said is of some help.

God Bless,

JL

I'd say yes, report him to the authorities, repeatedly if need be until he is picked up by the police. But do so anonymously.

I would report this man immediately. He betrayed your trust after all you did for him and has been engaging in a physical affair with your wife for the past
year and a half even on your special dates which he knew about. He is total scum. Having him in this country allows your wife to still think of him.
This OM deserves nothing but contempt from you and the sooner he is our of the country the sooner your wife and you will be able to heal. It is unfortunate
that your wife still continues to lie to you. You both need counseling immediately. Again kick this
OM out of the country immediately. He deserves nothing less. Good luck.

1. Details -- Be careful what you ask for. As said, you'll have those the rest of your life.
2. Triggers -- Again, previous poster said it best. If knowing those triggers will cause you to wonder if she's thinking about him, you are trapping yourself. The need for this kind of information will pass as you mature in your new relationship and accept what has happened.
3. Reporting him -- You have your integrity. That means doing the right thing, even if no one is watching. Do what your integrity, not your need for revenge, tells you. If he's here illegally and working for your company, then someone somewhere did something wrong. Are you willing to accept total consequence in whatever avenue you take? What if reporting him means other people lose their jobs, or even hurts you? What if not reporting him is obviously illegal? Integrity is a sharp knife to carry around. You have to learn how to carry it.
4. Friends and family -- again, the previous poster hit it. If it helps end the A, then maybe that's the best course. If it will cause needless suffering, for either the family, friends, you or your spouse, you might want to rethink it. You may get over the A, but your friends and family may never get over it, and that's an ugly shirt for your spouse to wear at the next reunion.
5. Read this web site, read the books and get busy.

JASMAB Update:

Hello everyone I wanted to fill everyone with an update -

After learning of the A I was finally able to get my w to admit the truth and she told me many things about the A. The first night, we professed strong love for each other but she admitted to strong feeling towards the OM as well. We agreed on her writing the letter to cut off the relationship - she said similar things to him as before - she had tried to cut it off earlier - but this time she told him that she had told me - this was a week ago - she hasnt yet heard from him.

This last week we have spent much time togehter - I canceled a business trip and we talked brutally about the A even many intimate sexual aspects - this was tough but for me but I needed to know and she was willing to tell - I changed the phones numbers and started monitoring closely activities - but most importantly, we both began to pay special attention to each others EN - I am sure that I have become a giver - but I think she has too and is showing her love for me - this is a first step moving towards our Contract -

He definitely met EN - and she has answered questions indicating that he knows her well, writes love letters to her - however, not since the termination letter - watches sunsets and sunrises with her, etc. always professing her love. There is danger here because she has a strong romantic recollection any mostly all positive thoughts about him -

Apparently, he pressed her hard and began to raise doubts in her about our relationship and kept proding her about whether she was happy with me - even asking her to stay with him.

we have cried each night and little by little have begun to speak less of the A and more about us - we have discussed the what ifs - he contacts her - I think he will - and I believe she has begun to understand that he was using her - he is a gigolo type - smooth talker, good looking, great lover, etc - I spent years with him on business trips watching his moves on other women so can say this with much authority - I believe he was after a "green card" and told her this - since he wants to remain in the US - his only way is to marry an american = she is beautiful, well educated, working, with good assets, etc - and vulnerable - you guys figure it out!

Today we will do the needs questionnaire - now that we have accepted brutal honesty - and hopefully are on our way back to the true love we shared for much of our marriage -

Thanks to all of you for your good advice and ideas -

some PS - he is working illegally in US but not for me - my company fired him for stealing money when he worked for us overseas - he came after her to the US on the visa I helped him get -

I have decided to not go to immigration unless he shows up again - if he dares, I will hire a private investigator to get the goods on him -

we had to tell family that we were not having further dealings with him - this created a lot of questions but I told everyone about his theft and that story seems to be working -

little by little the love bank is refilling and again we can both look into each others eyes and see our love growing - I will keep you posted -

To all of you suffering with me - Dr. Harley's ideas make incredible sense - I hope you all can turn yours around like I hope I am doing with my W.

God bless Dr. Harley, you all, and God for helping me lift the fog........

jasmab

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: JASMAB ]</small>

"some PS - he is working illegally in US but not for me - my company fired him for stealing
money when he worked for us overseas - he came after her to the US on the visa I helped
him get - "

This man not only stole money from you but he tried to steal your wife. This man is a thief and should not be allowed to become a resident of your country. Tell the authorities about him working illegally.

JASMAB

Add my voice to those other folks, like tommaz, that say 'report the scumbag to INS'. There are many worthy people that are waiting for a chance to come to the U.S. while this individual has not only abused the privilege of his visa but has sought to destroy the M of a man who extended his hand in friendship <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I also hope you learn that leaving a S for long periods of time makes her/him vulnerable to predators that are more than happy to capitalize on their loneliness. And remember that if you had been her you probably would have fallen into the same trap.

It looks like you are doing a great job in providing a safe environment where your W has felt safe to open up to you and be honest on what happened with her and OM. You are achieving, or have achieved, intimacy with your W and that will go a long way in helping her forget about OM. Keep the no-love-busters zone in your home in place while satisfying all her EN's and you will have your loving W back.

Good luck and God bless.

<small>[ October 06, 2002, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>