Hi -

I am a MM who seems to have the need for sex outside of an otherwise great marriage. 4 or 5 times a year I have sex with a prostitute. I practice safe sex, both with the prostitutes and with my wife.

Why am I posting this? I would really like to stop this behavior before it hurts my wife, (who is the coolest person I know!), and destroys my marriage.

I guess in an ideal world we could have our cake and eat it too, but I guess I'm starting to realize I can't have my wife and annonymous sex with strangers, (which I enjoy).

I'd like to say more, (I've also posted at www.facereality.com), but the library here is shutting down, so I've got to sign-off.

my advice is seek proffessional help to explore yourself and why you need to do this. And also if I was your wife, I would like to know about this so that we can fight together, I believe in being a team and therefore your struggles are her struggles, then she can keep you in check and work with you to get thru this instead of fighting alone. Just my opinion.
hW.

Hey Doof' it is apparent that you care about your wife, you posted here stating you don't want her to be hurt.
I have a couple of questions for You. What is it that you are getting from sex with these "annonimus people" that you are not getting from your wife? Is it a particular type of sex play, oral, or just the thrill that you might get caught? Take a good look at what it is that drives you to do this, and then try to work it into your sex play with your wife, BTW sex is adult play!!! You could meet her at a bar or motel for a little role playing, etc. If oral or another form of alternate sex is your thing you need to discuss it with your wife and make sure YOU reciprocate.

doofus

A condom is not foolproof and if it tears and you are unaware of it, you could become infected and then pass that infection on to your W. When was the last time you got checked out for STDS's?

You are playing Russian roulette with your life and with your unspecting W's life as well. If you have kids, think of the harm you are causing them by engaging in this self destructive behavior.

As one the posters said, please get some professional help to end this dangerous behavior for your sake and your W and family's sake.

Truely , deeply do u understand the pain that your wife would endure if she knew? I just found out my husband was having sex with an escort service. I thought having children was pain but does not begin to compare. I loved him like no other. But my to my dismay it is out of control. Get help i think that u might have a sexual addition.

Quietstorm

Okay, I get the picture. I need to seek professional help before I hurt my wife.

By the way, judging from what I read on this forum and other infidelity forums, her emotional pain would be much worse than just about any STD I could give her. I really, really like sex, but would feel so cruddy if I "broke her heart".

I'm going to find a counselor, but I'm not going to tell my wife why I'm going, at least not now. Too ashamed, I guess.

doofus.

Good for you as far getting professional help, but understand that even if your W is not aware of your infidelities, you already have hurt her. You are hurting her by keeping a facade of a H and M that she beleives she has but are actually fictional. Your W does not deserve this from you. You are making her live a lie and taking her right to know with whom she is married to and the right to decide whether she wants to be married to you or not. Ask yourself this, if the situation were reversed, would you agree with this way of handling things?

Good for seeking the professional help. Another word of advice. Stay away from prostitutes. Condoms do not protect from other contagious stuff that is not classied as STD, such as Scabies. - how would you explain that one?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by doofus:
<strong>Okay, I get the picture. I need to seek professional help before I hurt my wife.

By the way, judging from what I read on this forum and other infidelity forums, her emotional pain would be much worse than just about any STD I could give her. I really, really like sex, but would feel so cruddy if I "broke her heart".

I'm going to find a counselor, but I'm not going to tell my wife why I'm going, at least not now. Too ashamed, I guess.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've already hurt your wife by the betraying her the way you have. You will need to come clean and be honest with her if you hope to have any chance at a happy and fulfilling marriage.

I would suggest that in addition to a professional C that you find a 12 step Sexual Addicts Anonymous group to keep you sexually sober. You can find one by searching on sexual addiction on just about any search engine.

You will need to become totally accountable to your wife for time, whereabouts and money... 24/7. It would be best if you did not carry cash, and obviously she will need to have access to every financial account that you have.

You don't mention other forms of sexual activity outside of marriage. Porn? Strippers? Online dating? Harley states, and I agree, that any sexual behavior that is not between just you and your wife, is a form of infidelity. You'll need to be honest about and end those things as well.

The conditions under which you are able to do this must be eliminated. So, besides that accountability issue, if this is something that occurred during job related travel, you will need to find a job and a lifestyle that keeps you at home every night. Or alternatively, your wife will need to travel with you.

The road to real recovery is pretty narrow. You've taken a big step looking at your behavioer and recognizing that it needs to change. But as I've stated in many other places, good intentions are never enough.

You need a plan for recovery, one that is quantifiable. And you need a way to be held accountable for making the necessary changes in your life.

As you give up this lifestyle, you can expect to go through depression and withdrawal. It's normal. And you can expect to feel very constrained by the precautions you will need to take so that your wife is protected against ever having to go through this again. But in time the depression and withdrawal will fade... usually 3 weeks to 6 months. And the new habits of extraordinary precautions will begin to become familiar.

You can also expect that your wife will be devastated. She may even state that the marriage is over. Certainly she'll be angry. If you can get through that, if you can answer all her questions honestly and without becoming angry and defensive, I think you'll find that she will be willing to at least talk about recovery. Be patient, it might take a few days. Let her know that you are sorry, that you will do whatever you can to make sure it never happens again. Tell her that you understand what you did was cruel and selfish. You will most likely need to say those things over and over again.

Remember it's not the honesty that's going to hurt her. It's the actions that have already occured. She has a right to know. And you have an obligation to tell her.

I am a wife who has been on the other side of this issue. And I now work as a coach helping other couples to get through infidelity. It can be done, you can recover. But you will need help.
Do you have any of Harley's books? If not, I think Surviving an Affair would be the best place to start. You can order it from the bookstore link above, and it will come to you in less than a week depending on where you are in the country.

I usually suggest that people read it with a highlighter in one hand and the book in the other. Mark the things that jump out at you, and then go back and read them again. There's so much info that you won't be able to take it all in at once.

Let me know if I can help with anything else. I applaud your desire and your efforts to do the right thing. It won't be easy, I can guarantee that, but it will be worthwhile.

Cerri

I have just a quick comment.
How would you feel if your wife felt a need to have sex with a male escort serviceman every 4 or 5 times a year because she liked the excitement of annonymous sex with other men but still loves you and your marriage and does not have any desire to hurt you and your marriage?
Maybe you should think about this.

"As you give up this lifestyle, you can expect to go through depression and withdrawal. "

No kidding. I really like sex, and this sooo difficult! How much do I like sex? Sad to say, I don't think it would bother me if, in order to allow me to pursue my "hobby", (by the way, the prostituion sites on the web refer to sex-for-money as a "hobby"), my wife had annonymous sex a few times a year, as long as no emotional attachment developed. What kind of a hubby am I?

I work out of town, and the girl in the appartment next to mine is a "moaner". Last night it really got to me, and I drove twice to a phone booth to call an escort service, but stopped.

Two months ago I would have made the call. I'd like to think that posting to this website is helping me overcome my fixations. However, I'm going to find a sexual addiction website to post to, 'cause I'm not sure my posts are appropriate here. Thanks for all your comments, though.

Sexual addiction is a serious problem. A divorced buddy of mine is ruining his life with an endless series of one-night stands with people he meets over the internet.

Take care out there, and let's stop hurting each other!

oops, double <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ October 14, 2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

Doofus,
Your posts are very appropriate for this site. I'd be really interested in working with you on recovery, both personal and marriage.

Let me know if you're interested in discussing that.

Cerri

Hi Doofus,

I found out three months ago that my H is a sex addict. Let me tell you how it feels to be the partner of an SA. First you stand there in shock, then you cry. You feel as if your heart has been ripped out and served up to someone else on a platter. It doesn't matter that it is "anonymous" sex--it still hurts when you can't get the pictures of your H being physically intimate with another person. To have part of his body become part of her's--even if there is no emotion involved. To know that your H has to put you in a "cubbyhole" each time he acts out in his addiction. That, according to him, his "dirty little life" is a totally separate thing from his love and devotion to you and has nothing at all to do with you. To find his profile on several different adult websites, asking for "casual one-on-one sex; available at lunchtime and afternoons." To be angry enough to respond to one of his on-line contacts when you are snooping in his secret e-mail account for which you have found the password. To be so obsessed with trying to control his behavior that you go nuts everytime he leaves the house or talks on the phone in another room, or comes to bed at 3:00 after having been on the internet. To have everything you hold dear and precious appear as a lie, when even he can't explain why he has to do the things he does. Affairs and sexual addiction are horses of two different colors, but they both destroy the WS and the BS.

Don't do this. Get help fast. As Cerri says, find a 12-step group and live the principles. If you are uncomfortable in a face-to-face group setting, check out a new MSN group--SA/Recovery and Hope. It is managed by a fantastic guy who is a recovering sex addict, and they have on-line meetings.

I cried when I read your post--it brought everything that was beginning to fade just a little, back to the surface. Remember who you are hurting besides yourself--the woman you stood hand-in-hand with and promised to cherish. What you are doing is anything but what you vowed to do on that day.

Take care; I hope you find the strength you need to move into recovery. Please keep us posted and visit here often for incredible insights.

my move

Hi MM...

Your very poignant description of the feelings you had bring back so many memories.

Did you read SpyWife's thread here at JFO? It's called Penchant for Prostitutes.

I'm guessing you don't know much of my story either, but it mirrors your own.

Another friend, PasDeDeus is in a similiar situation. In fact, I need to get back to her with some info and help I promised last week.

If you'd like to join the conversation, pop into Persistant's thread here at JFO.

I think we would have a lot in common. Thanks for the info about the online SAA group. That's very valuable.

C

Hi Cerri,

Thanks for the invite to join Persistant's thread. I checked it out and was a little intimidated that it had been going on for 249 pages and counting! I don't want to feel like an intruder, but I'd love to jump in there.

(With all that is going on in my life, I'm worried about intruding on your group.....)

Just for more info, the SA/Hope and Recovery group at MSN is fairly new, and it NEEDS members. Anyone, and I mean anyone, who is SA would be more than welcome there.

Watch for me in the JFO thread

This is all soooo embarassing. It's like having trouble controlling your bowel movements, or something.

Cerri: I didn't want to post here, 1) because I might get too graphic, and more truthfully, 2) it's so friggin' difficult!

How would you work with me on recovery? I was gonna suggest email, but then I read some posts warning that emails between folks might lead to "tempting situations". Also, understand that I'm not a spiritual person at all. But if you're willing to give it a shot, so am I.

My Move: I can totally identify with your hubby. In fact, I sometimes think that he and I are the normal ones, and the rest of our society is sexually hung-up. Of course, when confronted with reality, (overtly sexually aggressive people are usually a turnoff), I change my tune. Guess I'm caught up in a fantasy world.

I know sounds really childish and selfish, but I don't completely feel that I'm doing something wrong, and am only trying to stop this behavior because, in reading through these posts, I see how devastating it is to the BS.

I'm going to try to join the SA group at MSN, if I can figure out how. (I ain't the brightest bulb in the chandelier!)

Two final notes:

1. I'm gonna add a msg to the "General" section explaining how I stumbled across Marriagebuilders. (Basically I was curious about paternity after reading a book called "Sperm Wars".)

2. I'm trying really, really hard NOT to hook up with an escort tonite. I've been a good boy since I've started posting here; I hope it continues.

Doofus, Doofus, Doofus,

Sorry, but you and my DH are nothing alike. He KNOWS what he is doing is wrong; that it is an addiction, and that he needs help. Admission that you HAVE the addiction is the first step in recovery; and I mean admitting it not only to yourself, but to another person! Yes, it is devastating to the BS, but it could also harm her physically. Think about STD's (condoms aren't 100%, you know...) Think about oral sex--still involves body fluids. Think about progressing from Level 1 Addiction to Level 3 Addiction (and yes, that is quite common.) Your behavior currently puts you somewhere between Level 1 and 2. Level 3 addicts include the rapists, pedophiles, molesters, etc. But the company is all the same, if you think about it. Your wife does not deserve this. Hell, you don't deserve this kind of dirty little sidebar life.

If you want to check out the SA site, here's the URL: http://groups.msn.com/SAAHopeAndRecovery

Like I said, it is a new group, and you have to apply to join. I don't know if I'm supposed to be putting in a plug for this site, but I've dealt with the guy who is managing it on another site (he is leaving that site to run the SAA site,) and he is awsome.

Good luck Doofus; you are going to need it!

Keep us posted on your progress, and if continually posting here keeps you away from those escort services; by all means, DO IT!

Take care,
my move

MM,

Don't be intimidated by P's thread. Yeah, 250 pages and growing, but mostly because it's become like home to some of us. It's a safe haven and all travellers are welcome. I think the only rule is respect. (And the only one who might state that explicitly is ....ta da.... me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

Some are lurkers who pop in once a year (and apparently there are some that never post, but I know they read cuz they come looking for me.)

Some of us have been there since the beginning, some are very new, and there's every gradient in between.

I am getting back to PDD on her SA questions today, so check it out if you get a chance, and feel free to post.

----

doofus...

Certainly it's embarassing. Most addictions are. Because they all involve the element of being out of control. No one likes to be seen in that light, or to believe that about themselves.

I have a food addiction. Or more accurately, I have "issues" with food, stemming from my eating disorder as a teenager. Drives my H insane, trying to get me to go out to eat is like trying to pull chicken teeth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, when I think about how hard it is to ignore the chocolate chip cookies or, goddess forbid, M&M's that are calling my name, I have a real sense of empathy for how difficult it must be with the more destructive addictions.

I've never done drugs, don't gamble, and drink only occassionally. And for that I am soooooo thankful, I think I could have been in a lot of trouble if I'd gone for one of those comforts rather than the occassional treat. Oh, and I have a book addiction, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

So, how would it look working together? Well, we can do it here, if you don't mind that it's public. Or we can do it by email. Or we can do email and phone. (I do coaching as a career.)

Temptations? Yes it's true the risk exists. But I can tell you right now that my only interest is in your health and the health of your marriage. So although I expect we would be friendly and perhaps even friends, I'm very good at setting and keeping boundaries between what is professional and what is over the line.

Also, H and I practice the Radical Honesty that I preach about, so he knows who I talk to and what I say. No secret second life in my life.

I have a special interest in the subject of SA, because my H is a (very successfully) recovering addict. And I'm a strong advocate for the empowerment of women and men. Anonymous, unsafe, paid, sex erodes that empowerment for both men and women.

What besides the couple of websites that you've mentioned have you read?

Tell me about your family... kids?

You work away from home? How often and for how long are you gone?

Your wife has no knowledge at this time?

Talk to me about the other conditions that set off the craving, and the process you use to find and intiate sexual encounters.

What is it that makes it so pleasurable? (It's the pleasure and the release of endorphins into the brain that creates the addiction.)

How often? For how long?

Talk to me about your marriage. Particularly about the sexual aspect of it.

Do you have any of Harley's books?

How much of this site have you read... specific topics that you found?

Later...

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
<strong>
Did you read SpyWife's thread here at JFO? It's called Penchant for Prostitutes.

I think we would have a lot in common. Thanks for the info about the online SAA group. That's very valuable.

C</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is "JFO" and "SAA"? I've had this same experience with my WS. Thanks for the info.

Nevermind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

<small>[ October 16, 2002, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: Living2Day4Him ]</small>