I caught my fiance looking at nude women online, then he lied about it. Since he was looking at other nude women besides me, isn't that considered cheating? Any advice would be helpful!

It doesn't matter whether you are religious or atheist, but any activity that is hidden (on purpose) from the eyes of a loved on is by it's very nature dishonest and dishonesty is the basis of all cheating. So yes it is.

WOW! That was very nicely put! I thank you for your reply. How do you think I should handle it though? I nagged at him until he confessed, but it still doesn't excuse it! I want to make this relationship work, but he has lied to me before, some things were petty, but others were very hurtful!!! I want to seek counseling, but the last time we did, he just sat there and said nothing. I have known him for years, and I know he is not the "type" to cheat, but he has very much changed in the last few months. This makes me wonder why and what I have done to make him treat me this way. I admit I have changed also, but everyone does when becoming a parent for the first time ( our son is 7 months old ). I've become this mean, angry person, who is always uptight (as he puts it) and stressed out. When I detect a lie, I blow up and jump to conclusions without thinking about it first. There have been times when I was completely wrong and felt like an idiot afterwards. But there were more times than not, that I was right. I have my guard up, so to speak, because I don't want to be hurt again. But that is the very thing that seems to be hurting the relationship. Point being, it's not the fact that he did it, it's that he lied about it and hid it from me. It's that he lies to me, period. I'm upest about this all the time, therefore, I won't let him in. What do you do? It's so frustrating!!! I posted another thing on the general questions board and said that he goes out on Sat. mornings by himself for breakfast. When I wanted to go, he made excuses why I shouldn't. Just little things like this make me think the worst, and if my suspicions aren't accurate or true, I am afraid this will lead him to be adulterous. I am scared that I may be pushing him away, but if I don't analize what he does, because he has lied, I think I will be caught off guard and be hurt all over again. What am I to do? Everytime ( 3 total ) that we have planned our wedding date, he has backed out because it was "bad" timing. So when is it GOOD to get married? I didn't know there was a right and wrong time to do this! Please enlighten me on this, if I am wrong! Thanks, Orion

Me: 20
Him: 33
Son: 7 mths
Together: 2 yrs in Nov.
Known each other: 5 yrs
Wedding Date: Nov. 16, this yr.


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

First of all you have got to remember that nobody can force another human being to do what s/he does not want to do. If you accept this truth, you'll start finding a little peace in your heart and mind.

I suggest that you get a copy of the Harley books 'Love Busters' and 'His Needs Her Needs' and educate yourself on what works and doesn't work in relationships. 'Love Busters' is especially relevant in your case because your angry outbursts do nothing to make him want to change his ways and leave you more frustrated every time you blow up at him.

It is also very important that you set up boundaries on what is acceptable and what is unacceptable to you. If he doesn't care to observe and respect those boundaries, then it's up to you to make him see ,thru your actions, that there are consequences to his behavior.

He'll respect you, if he sees that you respect yourself enough to consider leaving him because of his bad behavior.

First of all looking at pictures of other women is hardly cheating IMHO and he probably is hiding it because the atmosphere of your relationship makes him think he can't tell you about stuff like that. I see it all the time where the woman flips over anything eg. porn,going out with the guys, looking at other women. The guy has to hide who he really is and it just gets easier and easier to lie because now you have experience doing it. Why dont you try relaxing on the little stuff. Make him feel comfortable enough to share who he is with you. Once he is and does not fear persecution from you two things will happing 1. He will be 100% happier with you and 2. You will know the truth and then can talk to him about what bothers you about it. I am not saying that it is okay to lie to your spouse because you fear them but it happens and we have seen it alot haven't we? So lets take away the fear and put it out on the table.

Internet porn, if kept secret, if not used "together" is indeed cheating. In my eyes. The Harley principles seem to agree...any sexual activity outside of the couple relationship needs to go. If it is causing friction in the marriage, it is a problem.

I see it all the time where the woman flips over anything eg. porn,going out with the guys, looking at other women. The guy has to hide who he really is and it just gets easier and easier to lie because now you have experience doing it. Posts

Bet you do mosana. Maybe one day you will have a husband of your own and when you say "My Married Man" you won't be talking about someone elses spouse.

PDD

Pas De Deux,
Do you need a hug? You seem angry? That is twice now that you have replied to my posts in a not so nice way, instead of reading all those books on how to keep your hubby away from prostitutes why dont you take a couple of anger management courses and then you might feel better about yourself. Your right about the maybe one day I will marry again and it might be to MY MM ( I say my because if i am the one that makes love, sleeps with, goes shopping,movies, running,and to do errands for (as he does for me) and more time is spent with me then the wife, I think I am entitled to say MY) I didnt expect people hear to be buddy buddy with my POV and there have been some that have sounded like the same unbiased advice you would get from anyone, but you PasDeDeux, you are obviously still sorting out your hostilities just please dont do it to people who you know nothing about Okay?

Hey Mosana,

No, relly I don't have anger issues. As many others here do, I have trust issues based on fact. In looking around these forums you will notice that porn comes up alot. It is clear to me that it causes a great deal of turmoil especially in relationships where trust has been violated. When it is accompanied by the lies, the problem is compounded.

Thanks for the hug offer. I don't know you and don't make a habit of blasting other people, its just that some of your comments don't sit well with me. It would probably be best that we agree to disagree.

Good luck with your situation.

PDD

If your hiding your lying, and cheating is in that catagory. I even hate when I walk into a room and my wife quickly put's the phone down. I dont hide, I have nothing to hide.

I dont care if my W want to look at other men, or women for that matter, just dont hide from me. If your hiding your lying it's that simple.

Hey Orion,
I'm in a similar situation to yours. I've been on this board for about a year or so lurking for advice and searching for solutions. It's helped a lot, so post often, even if it's just to vent.

My H has had a porn addiction since he was 10 years old. As with any addiction, lying comes with the territory. Some people might say that looking at porn isn't a bad thing. I'm not here to settle any moral quandries, but in my opinion when ANYTHING gets to the point that you lie about it and keep secret from your spouse/SO it's a bad thing.

Dishonesty is a symptom of an underlying problem that he needs to have solved. When someone gets away with a small lie, it can snowball. When someone gets away with many little lies, they can fall easily into lying about big things.

You know all this already, though. You know that you don't like your fiance looking at porn, he knows you don't like it either. For me, it made me feel cheap and worthless. I feel I can never know what my H is REALLY thinking about while making love. I read once that when your husband looks at porn, he brings to bed with him all these other women, all these expectations. Whether this is true or not, he won't admit to it, so I'll never know. But your fiance chooses to do it in spite of your feelings. How would he feel if you had a habit that hurt him and lied in wreckless disregard of the effects on him?

I've been in my relationship for over six years, married 2.5 of them. We've been through a lot, but the core of the problems has been his porn use AND my abhorrance of it.

My imagination goes wind wondering about the "other" things he could have lied about. He hasn't looked at porn in over six months, and still I wonder if there is another woman taking its place in satisfying him. Your questions will probably never end until you are able to trust him. I sure would wonder where he is going on these Saturday breakfasts. Maybe he is jsut going to breakfast, but there is no reason he shouldn't let you go, even just once. But who is to say that if he let you go that that's where he is always going? He might just take you to Denny's one morning, say "See, I told you I just go to breakfast", then the next Saturday go out with what he normally does (If it is anything other than breakfast). You'll never know, that's why you need to be able to trust him. Note I say you need to BE ABLE TO trust him, not just trust him. This is something he needs to allow you to have.
(I'm not advocating this, but what this insecure and overprotective head would think to do was let him go to breakfast, call up a friend and say "Want to pick me up and go to breakfast?" Have her pick me up, and go down to the restaurant he is supposed to be at ...) Of course, he could easliy say he was at another restaurant, in which case I would ask him to produce a receipt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> See, but I'm a little off right now, so this might not be the best thing to do. What I am saying is you need to build trust, and being able to trust that you KNOW he is at breakfast would be a baby step...
Feel free to contact me if you want to talk.

crleslie@umail.ucsb.edu

PasDeDeux,
Okay truce <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am really a nice person. Contrary to what my situation is now I would never want a loved one to dishonor me like that but I would blame the spouse not the OW and I know from experiance that affairs are 100% cowerdice. Just not having a "pair" to face the wife or the OW and say what you feel. I think that the wifes are cowards for sticking thier head in the sand when they know that something is going on or there are definate problems in the marriage. The OW is also a coward for putting up with indecision so hopefully with the help of each other we can all " get a pair".

Thanks to all who replied. I am greatful!! To Leslie, I will email you when I have more time to chat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I hope that we can get through this, I have spoke to my SO about this and we have agreed to go every where together for a while, and I have also thought about following him before, but thought it would be too obvious. He knows I no longer trust him, but am willing to work at it, I also made an appt with the doctor for next Fri. to have tests done on both of us. I told him there would be NO sex between us until his tests came back neg! He agreed and that's that. I am taking no chances, I refuse to be a victim of careless acts or responsablilities. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I hope everyone is well and look forward to speaking with you all in the future!
Take care and God bless, Orion
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sounds like he's being cooperative, that's a good sign. Don't let your radar down though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Very smart about the sex. Never can be too safe nowadays, sadly.
Come back and talk whenever you need it!

Well, I am going to differ from all the people that posted here, because I don't think looking at porn online is any different than having a penthouse. Big deal. Guys masturbate and some like to look at porn, or they just are into it. IMO, porn is NOTHING like cheating. Geez, c'mon, even I read the midly hardcore romance novels with heaving breasts and hard loins, and I certainly wouldn't confuse Sir Whatever on a white horse with my husband! It's just fantasy. Guys don't read romance novels, they look at porn. And I don't bring my trashy novels to the office, it's kind of embarrassing... I think men feel about porn the same way.

Just my .02 cents.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KS:
<strong>Well, I am going to differ from all the people that posted here, because I don't think looking at porn online is any different than having a penthouse. Big deal. Guys masturbate and some like to look at porn, or they just are into it. IMO, porn is NOTHING like cheating. Geez, c'mon, even I read the midly hardcore romance novels with heaving breasts and hard loins, and I certainly wouldn't confuse Sir Whatever on a white horse with my husband! It's just fantasy. Guys don't read romance novels, they look at porn. And I don't bring my trashy novels to the office, it's kind of embarrassing... I think men feel about porn the same way.

Just my .02 cents.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KS.

It's not the act of looking at porn that I consider cheating,IT'S THE HIDING from your loved ones view that makes it cheating. The hiding it borrows from the cheaters motto 'what she doesn't know won't hurt her'. Hiding things from a loved ones eyes opens the door for other things down the road like infidelity. THAT is why I consider it cheating.

Yeah Coffee, I always wonder why he does this, since he has me, but I don't mind it so much as the hiding part like you said!!! I don't read those books, myself. Think they're stupid and like she said, fantasy. Which brings me to another point; why would he be fantasizing over women online? By looking at this trash, and thinking of these whores online while masterbating, isn't that also adulterous in a sense? I personally, think that if you are having thoughts or fantasies of other women, while making love to your wife, or masterbating, that it is cheating! Just MO.
Orion

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Make_This_Work:
<strong>Yeah Coffee, I always wonder why he does this, since he has me, but I don't mind it so much as the hiding part like you said!!! I don't read those books, myself. Think they're stupid and like she said, fantasy. Which brings me to another point; why would he be fantasizing over women online? By looking at this trash, and thinking of these whores online while masterbating, isn't that also adulterous in a sense?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Unlike women that want to know everything about a man they are attracted to, men could care less about about what these porno women like or dislike.The majority of men that view porn are NOT enchanted with the women having sex, and they could care less who they are. What men are attracted to when they view porn is the EXTREME DESIRE portrayed by these women engaged in sexual acts. These porno women are like a female reflection of men's own desires and THAT is why men are enthralled in viewing them have sex.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I personally, think that if you are having thoughts or fantasies of other women, while making love to your wife, or masterbating, that it is cheating! Just MO.
Orion</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well then you'll also have to include a great number of women in that group. How many women don't think about an old boyfriend once in awhile when they are with their H's? Or when they go to the movies and watch a favorite singer or actor on the screen. Don't tell me that these women are just having pure and wholesome thoughts when they see these men to whom they have an attraction for.

You need to communicate to your fiance, in a respectful way, why does he feel the need to view porn when he has you?

<small>[ October 11, 2002, 03:24 AM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

So true, so true - TMCM has hit the nail on the head. (By the way, I also am a 'java addict' so I can relate to your CoffeeMan).
IMHO, porno slutZ are just that - AIRBRUSHED WHORES. The current models are traded in by the magazines or websites for newer younger models. How many women do YOU know who act like those ACTORS? Personally, I know none, and I've been with lots of women and I also have had lots more friends - it's just a cheap airbrushed fantasy. It's also so wrong to NOT include your Mate in anything sexual - they are going to something or someone for needs, whether it's emotional, physical, or whatever - I believe when you pledged to 'forsake all others' it's a sure bet that includes airbrushed models.
Also my 2 cents worth.
Harold

You guys are so helpful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I love having a man's point of view on this! Thanks for helping me see that there is a deeper need under his dishonesty!!! Though it brings a little sense of relief, I still wonder what this certain need is. Am I not pretty enough for him to be physically attracted to me? A little background for you guys:
5'7
145 (now)
125 (before getting pregnant)

I gained over 50 lbs. when I was pregnant, and I KNOW that has something to do with it. I have lost some weight, but as you can see I am still 20 lbs. overweight. I obsess about it all the time and always complain about my acne (something that has gotten worse over the last few months). When ever he tells me I look sexy or good in an outfit, I always come back with something negative about myself. " Oh, no I'm not. I look terrible, I'm so ugly!" Do you think that has something to do with it? He is very confident in himself with the way he looks, thinks, etc. I know he just wants me to be happy with myself, but I don't think that's possible. If it's not my weight, it's something else. It seems like I'm always complaining. Maybe he looks at that trash like they never talk back and complain about how fat or ugly they are. LOL, I dunno.
Know what though? I haven't seen anymore porn on the computer since Sept. 14. We have talked about it countless times over the last few weeks and I explained how I felt about it, without being judgmental or mean. He said he understood and wouldn't do it again. I think that is a good sign. He also told me that from now on, I was welcome to go with him to breakfast or where ever he wanted to go, when he's not working. Maybe this crap was all in my head. What do you think? He started a new job last Monday and works 13 hrs a day. I called for his schedule, so I know it's ligit (I was being nosey). Since he started, we don't get to spend much time together. By the time he gets home, he eats and goes straight to bed, so the only time we have is on the weekends. I think this will be good for us in a sense that he will miss being around me all the time and make our hearts fonder! Tell me what you think! Don't worry about offending me, I take critism very well! Thanks again for your advice, you are all very sweet and caring people! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Orion

For what it's worth, here is what my H would tell me: it's all about an easy way to get some frustration out. A quick fix. A quick pick me up if you will.
We had some very stressful things going on in our lives, and the tiniest (to me) of things would set off his "need" for porn.
For example, and for this I'll have to admit that I am not the world's best housekeeper, but here goes. One day I found porn on the computer. I asked him why he did it and he said, "I was feeling low because the house was messy." I nearly shot through the roof inside, I was peeved that he could have just tidied up to release his frustrations. But I came to realize some things:
1. His feelings ARE valid - he has the right to be frustrated with something.
2. Maybe looking at porn wasn't the best way to deal with his situation, but that also means he needs to find another way to release - he since has.
3. I needed to include in my Plan A to keep the house cleaner! I do, he's happy.
4. Maybe he i just using dirty house as an excuse, but if I stop giving him excuses maybe he will see that it is HIM that is making the choice to look at porn. Once he saw that and became accountable for his actions, he slowly stopped.

For some guys it might be totally different - some guys just like porn. You need to figure out what the right answer is for your fiance and you. But when it becomes an addiction I would venture to say that there are other reasons behind porn use than just liking it. The fact that he lied about it leads me to say it's an addiction. (PS - I'm happy for you that you haven't found anything in nearly a month!)
I want to say IT ISN'T YOUR FAULT! You gained baby weight, but you are still 145 lbs! Sheesh! That's what I weigh post-baby-2 and I'm only 5'4". If you want to lose weight, do it for you and your health - not because your fiance says he will look at sluts if you don't. At least IMHO.... There is a fine line between losing weight BECAUSE OF your spouse and losing weight FOR your spouse. Wonder if that makes sense...
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />