Hey everyone, hope your all doing good. I am not doing so good, ex OW now just "best friend" came over yesterday, both her and H were drinking and thus came the "3some" topic. I was feeling ill at the time so wasn't drinking, that plus i'm only 20 so, kinda illegal! Anyway, to cut a long story short, they were pretty much all over each other, then SHE decided to put her head in my lap, and started stroking my leg, at which point I got up and said my good nights and went into the bedroom, only to be followed by my H to see what was wrong. I told him that I didn't want anything like that to happen, he wanted to bring her into our bedroom at which point I got upset.

She went home shortly after, my H then got all angry with me saying that he got so worked up and thought that I would have engaged in some kind of sexual activity with her and him. I am completely dumb founded at this point and said that I wasn't that type of person and didn't want that in our marriage. My H then said he had to go on the computer to look at porn because he was hurting from getting do worked up sexually. Truthfully, I gave no hints, I didn't act in ANY way that would make either of them think I would do anything. So, Rach slept in the spare room.

Today then he was nice to me, again, but suprise suprise he wanted to take me out to dinner, but who was waiting at the restraunt? Her. We had a civilised meal then she started to ask personal questions about why me and H didn't get on very well and why we argue. I was pretty much left out of the conversation while they laughed and joked and had a nice time. We got home and then he went on the computer. 3 times in as many nights.

I'm at my wits end, I get so frustrated and take it out on myself. I have a history of self abuse and have't done it in over 5 months, but tonight, while H was looking at porn on the computer, I had a relapse. I sometimes look at the pills in the cabinet and think how easy I could make things go away, then I think of my family back home and I couldn't hurt them like that. I'm sorry to go on like a whiny baby, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I guess it's just rant time. I know many people would think I should leave him and believe me I've thought it many times, he's verbally abusive and I know that sometimes I can be difficult too, but I'm just craving intimacy and romance really bad! I guess love is blind and I keep thinking maybe he'll change. He swears blind nothing has happened with this girl on his own, but I don't believe him, I mean, if he flirt and stuff in front of me then what can he do on his own?! They work the same shift and talk on the phone, I'm at my wits end.

I love him to bits but I don't know how much longer I can hold on. I know no one can help me unless I help myself, but like I said, I love this man, but i feel so weak for staying and so stupid for putting up with this. So, sorry this is so long, just wanted to let it all out. And I guess you lot are my only mates so far over here. Take care, luv rach. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Rachel20,

Does H behavin' like this before M ?. This is still suppose to be your happier time in M. Any hind sight ?. Learn about no LB and learn about how to communicate better to your H. Make sure you know the different that you are not communicating or H is not what you think he is. Pain is given but misery is optional and the choice is yours.

-RH-

Thankyou for replying. I am his second wife, he cheated on his first wife and swore he would neve do that to me. He slept with this woman while I was home in the UK, but, stupid rach married him because I thought I could forgive him, as he told me that it was only one time, and he was drunk, after we were married I finally found out the whole truth, they had slept together on a regular basis. I truely try my hardest to be nice to him, and get upset when he calls me names and says that porn doesn't "supervise him". I lb then, when he pushes me to the brink, but I have tried so hard to try and explain to him the love bank concept and LB-ing. I have tried encouraging him to come onto this website and to go to marriage councelling with me. I've bought some of Harley's books also and have tried encouraging him to read them.

But, he's like jeckyl and Hyde, one minute he pushes me away and the next he's telling me he loves me. In fact, when he tells me something mean or tells me to "shut the f**k up" I just sit there and take it now, I very rarely answer back. I now I should leave for a while or do something, but, I'm trying my hardest to make him happy and to make it work. I'm drained emotionally, I actually just sent him a long email explaining that I just want romance! I'm sorry to sound so pathetic, guess I'm just feeling sorry for meself!

Hi, Rachel. Sorry your latest episode was so painful.

I'm not sure what can be done with this guy. He is abusive, disrespectful, disgusting, immature, selfish - not exactly good husband material, wouldn't you say? I don't know that there is even the slimmest chance of him comprehending any MB concepts or responding positively to any counseling. He sounds like a cave man of the worst sort.

But you love him. Rachel, you are very young, and there are so many good men out there who are worthy of your love and will treat you with the respect you deserve. Your husband is flaunting his deviant behavior right in front of your face, and you don't have to take it.

It's admirable that you want to try to save your marriage, and it's good that you desire to enlighten him, but I wouldn't wait too long for him to come around. It's much better to cut the cord than face the possibility of years of abuse.

Be careful and be smart. You have a lot of years ahead of you, so make sure you choose wisely: a love-filled life over a torturous, abuse-filled one. Take care.

<small>[ October 22, 2002, 03:18 AM: Message edited by: shattered in SF ]</small>

Rachel20:

Take a vacation, away from H for a few days, it will help you to do selfretrospective. IMVHO, call MB and make appt. I agree w/ SSF, this kind of H needs life changing event to change them ... 'till then you are suffering. Read enablement on my signature and also check up info. on codependency on the same website. You have to make a choice, apprently staying is not a good option (I even won't recomended it for my enemy). Why don't you get a proffesional help and give H the last straw. Plan A/Plan B will bring you to the point where you could move on w/ or w/o H. I do not recomend to do yourself MB, H has many issue that he has to take care.

You are a decent woman with a good value, many good man will treat you like a princess. Do not settle for less and live, love & learn this experience.

Take care & keep posting.
-RH-

<small>[ October 22, 2002, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Rachel,

You are not only hearing from older guys ( I am the oldest and probably older than your father by quite a bit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) but you are hearing from guys that all live on the Left Coast, CA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . So if ever there was a group that was "open minded" this ought to be it. But, as you see both Redhat and SISF are politely telling you something, and that is to reconsider your options.

I will be more blunt. From your history I see that you have only been married a short while. You don't have children. Even Dr. Harley who founded this site claims that if his W cheated he would divorce her, they have no children at home (they counsel here actually).

My point, you are young, you are still developing your self-esteem, your powers, you abilities, and you don't need a man around that has and is doing what he is doing. I would strongly urge you to consider leaving him, because he is trying to force you into something that is against your ethical beliefs. If you do submit to his demands they will only escalate. This is a power trip for him.

I don't know where you live but you mentioned your family is in the UK. I would urge you to take a vacation right now and go see them, stay there awhile and really sort out what YOU feel is right and wrong with your feelings and your beliefs.

You are young enough to feel that love "conquers all", well it can do a lot, but it cannot change who or what people are. They have to do that themselves. No matter how much you love this man, he isn't going to change. No matter how much you try to please him, he isn't going to change.

Please consider this. The best marriages are those where both spouses have the same core beliefs, the same attitude about many things AND they have happened to fall in love. You my dear are not in such a marriage.

Please think about this. At 20 there is so much you will learn about yourself and life. AT 25 you won't believe how much you will have learned. So please start this process and don't let him force into situations that you know are harmful to you and certainly any children you might have in the future.

God Bless,

JL

Thankyou all for replying to my post. It was nice to hear from you. I have actually been looking up tickets home to the mother land, I really miss home and guess a vacation wouldn't do me bad. I actually even said this to H yesterday while we were in the restraunt, and SHE (ex OW now just best friends, hmmm, yeah sure!) said "You shouldn't threaten him with going home, why would you do that?" To that I just ignored her, silly cow, so, yeah, what this reply is saying is that I'm going to try and break free for just a little while and see how things go. If I don't go back to the mother land I've been thinking of maybe going on a mini vacation myself, I'm in the seattle area, so maybe I'll go to canada and mingle with like minded people and drink some tea! (It's a good thing my sense of humour is indestructable, unlike my spirit!) Take care, luv rach.

Rachel,
I just stumbled onto your story this morning. I went back and read some of your earlier posts as well. I am so sorry for what you are going through. I usually post under "In Recovery" or "General Questions". I am a 39 year old BS (female). My husband and I are at almost a year into recovery. We've been married 13 years and to my knowledge his A last year was the first and only one. Honey, I hate to be negative and I'm so sorry you've found yourself in this situation but it doesn't sound good at all. I know you feel you love H but I think he has some SERIOUS issues (possible sex addict, verbally abusive, self-centered among other things) and I don't see a whole lot of hope for him changing without some EXTENSIVE work and then only if he wants to change and maybe not even then. Sounds like he is rubbing this situation with OW in your face and is bound and determined to make you participate in sexual activities that you are not comfortable with simply for his own sick pleasure. Seems to me he is making light of your situation and the pain you are experiencing. I hate to say this and I know it's easier said than done, but my advice to you would be to cut your losses and get out while you are young. You sound like a wonderful girl, you deserve someone who will love and respect you. This guy certainly does not deserve you. All these problems so early in your marriage, to me, indicate a road ahead that, if I were in your shoes, I would not want to go down. I have never been an advocate of divorce but I see nothing but pain ahead for you if you stay in this marriage. PLEASE take the necessary steps to protect yourself from years of misery and end it with this guy as soon as possible so that you can begin to move forward towards a happier, healthier life. If not, I think in years to come you will look back with much regret and wish you'd gotten out sooner. Again, sorry to be so negative here. Best of luck to you dear!

Almost

rachel, i'm sorry to intrude, but, exactly why is this person still in your life? and how do you expect to work on your marriage as long as she is? the fact that she thinks she has the right to push her opinion on you seems a bit, well, sick on her part. and on your husbands for allowing another woman into your relationship. i don't see that he sees anything wrong with his behavior, so there doesn't appear to be much hope that he'd be willing to work at it. everything i've ever read has said that in order to heal, there has to be real effort as well as NO CONTACT with third party. not only is he unwilling to break off contact, but he seems to take a sick pleasure of the pain he causes you by rubbing your nose in her. oh, and please stop looking at those pills. you have no idea of the pain that would cause others that love you. the pain only seems overwhelming while your hand is in the fire. once you back away from the flame, the healing can begin. either he is willing to change, you are willing to do what he wants, or the marriage is doomed. there's no other choices here. you two don't have any children, do you? if not, please protect yourself by making sure that doesn't happen or you're in for world of bigger problems. in fact, given his attitude, it may be good idea to protect yourself anyway. after all, aids still kills and faithful wives have been known to get it!

Thankyou again for replying to my post. No, I don't have children, I had a miscariage about 7 months ago, while I was back home, he proceeded to have the afair after I miscarried. But, he thinks that it wasn't an affair, because we weren't married, just engaged. Since then I take my birth control pills like my life depends on them! I would never do anything silly, just I get so down sometimes, they only appeal to me as a way out, but wouldn't ever do that. I really do think that he has an addiction with porn, but, whenever I try to bring it up, I get my head bitten off and he denies it. Which I suppose is one of the symptoms of addiction right?! I know I don't want this forever, god, I have at least 50 years left in me and don't want this forever. I'm gonna try the councelling suggestion again, after that, I think I'm going on a vacation back home, I'm gonna give it a few more weeks and then head back to the mother land for a while. Spend some time with my niece and little nephew who I haven't even seen yet, my sister gave birth as soon as i got to the airport to come over here! But, I chose to get on the plane, kinda bad choice looking back I think!

Anyway, I hope your all doing good this evening, I'm gonna go now and chow down and some comfort food. Take care.

Rachel20,

What is your worry ?. Imigration status ?, financial status ? or anything ?. What I am leading to is that you start tackeling all the issues that make you afarid to separate and work on it. Like you say do you want this for 50 years ?. Most BS stay beacuse they received it in the past or they received it now or they beleive that they will receive it in the future. In your case you have none of those !.

About vacation ... driving down from Sattle to California via HWY 1 is not bad idea w/ bed & breakfast along the way. Yes, you need to get away and rethink about your life ...

Just Learning,
Just because we live in CA we are born to be free <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... we are in NorCal, whole diff. state <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... we make love not war <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Just kidding, SiSF has a very extensive religious background if you read his early post. I was very devoted and still a lost lamb trying to find my way back. Also in MB we don't beleive in third party in M. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

-RH-

Rachel, dear, please keep us posted as to your situation and your state of mind. Let us know what steps you are taking to improve your situation. I'm concerned about you and really hope to hear of some happier days ahead for you.

Almost

Thankyou all for your kind words, they are really nice and it's lovely to read your posts, well, not lovely but, it's helpful y'know. To redhat, I think the biggest thing I worry about, well, things really, and please don't think I'm stupid, but I'm really afraid of being alone and making the wrong decisions. I've made bad decisions, see I was engaged to a perfect bloke before H, and thought I wanted to see the world and ended things with him, then I met H, who, also was perfect, at the time, then all this happens. I kinda regret letting go of one perfect man, especially when all this happens, and I wonder what could have been with the other one. Confused, yeah me too! So, I'm afraid of giving up on this, even though H is a complete muppet at the moment. Someone just take me out to the field and shoot me, just kidding, I know life is full of hard and difficult decisions, and we only learn through making these decisions, but, baby rach is afraid. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm sorry to sound pathetic. Maybe I do have a co dependancy issue and would be good to be on my own for a while. Take care everyone.

Baby Rachel,

Everyone here afraid to make the wrong decision, you are not alone !. I was tolerating my WW's A for long time and don't have the guts to file for Dv ... why ? for the same reason, afraid to be alone & making the wrong decision. That is why you need to take a vacation for soul searching, you are the one that have to make a decision and you have to live with it for the rest of yourlife ... good or bad decision. JMHO, think if you Dv now and looking back 10 years from now ... with all the chances and efforts from you plus all the info today ... would you regret your decision ?. Only you have the answer.

I am afraid to be lonely too and I am a giver ... I need someone to be my taker and be beside me at all situation. I realize that I only get the first one and not the second one with WW ... plus this A ridden M is not what I beleive in. I came to acceptance that I could move on w/ or w/o WW. I know how much I am worth and no one is going to tell me otherwise specially WS !. I know that I could score higher points against many M man and w/ MB I know I could make someone special very happy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Now I just have to wait to find one that will make me happy too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Live, Love & Learn this experience for not making the same mistake in the future. There will be someone special for you that will treat you like a princess, all you need to do is wait and be patience.

Again you could still learn all about MB & stop enabeling A then see what is the impact.

Have fun on your trip & keep us uptodate & stay away from new R until you are Dv. -RH-

Rachel,

Just some "fatherly" advice from someone across the bay from Redhat and SISF. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You cannot make a "good" choice with regard to men right now. Sounds harsh doesn't it? But, my point is this. You are young and yes you are afraid and you are probably pretty lonely as well. All of that is very normal.

But, you can handle it, you will grow from it, and 5 to 10 years you will be completely different person. The "right" guy now, won't be the "right" guy once you have handled all of this. Why? Because you will find that you will choose the "right" guy, because of who he is not because you need him to drive away your fears. He will be a man that will like you, love you, and want to be with you, because of who you are not because you are needy and he feels power from controling you.

Rachel, please move on from this guy and face your fears and loneliness, and when you do find the "right" guy, you will remember all of these things and when things are a bit tough you will remember how they used to be and be thankful for the "right" guy and that he is there for you.

Rachel, you are very brave to come to a new country and not really know anyone. You are very brave to consider leaving, but you will be very smart if you leave this guy, deal with your fears and realize your strengths. Believe me you will attract men who find your strength and you something they admire.

Please don't mess up your life with this guy. Admit the mistake, move on, and grow. Your future is ahead of you and so are a lot of great things. The only really BAD decision you can make is to stay in a BAD situation.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

To Just learning, your post made me cry! It's seriously something that my father would tell me and I really miss my family so much and, am going to sound like a whinny baby (again!!) but, I want to go home. Each day that goes by I keep thinking, what am I doing? I seriously thought I loved this man, and this disturbed me somewhat, that I don't think I'm in love with him anymore. So, I think the only option really is for me to go home. I think part of me wants to see how this all turns out but everyday the other part of me that has doubts is growing and growing. I feel incredibly guilty that I chose this man over my family. Why did I do that, am sobbing now! I really think I need to see my family again, sort my head out, see how I cope on my own. See my friends and have some kind of a life and do what "kids" are doing! Cos, thats what I am, just months out of being a teenager, somedays, the thought of what I did make sense, ie, getting married, but other days, I really think, what the bloody hell was you thinking Rach?! It's not the attitude I should have right?! Only been married 4 months and thinking this! I dunno, I hope you all are feeling ok tonight, sorry this post has no real point kind of, just needed thoughts out of my head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

rachel, if it's advice you wanted, here's mine. go home! run as fast as you can! this man is not going to change and will only hurt you more. you deserve better! i know it must be hard, being so far away from your family with only a monster as company, so not a soul would blame you for taking yourself to safety. in fact, it takes alot more courage to make the change then to stay and let things slide. remember it is not your job in life to either fix him or make him happy. that's something he'd need to do for himself. sure you could help, but only if he's willing to make an effort, which he clearly isn't. it's time to protect yourself from harm, doesn't matter if it's physical or emotional! please just take care of yourself!