My H and I have been getting along famously lately. There have been no love busters, no lies. He even rings every day just to chat. He still wants to go ahead and sell the house. He says that he has no plans for the future. He says he hasn't even thought about where he's going to live.<P>Is it because he can't think of the future or is it because he doesn't want to tell me what he really wants to do? I've asked him if he wants to live with OW, but he says no. He has reduced the number of times he sees her, but he does still see her.<P>He claims to want to try living on his own. He says he's never done that. The appeal, he says, is in the not having to account for his where abouts, and the fact that he'd be able to make last minute plans without having to ring home and let someone know. He says that it might sound selfish, but he is sick of having to think of me, or his mother when someone suggests a trip to the pub after work, sick of thinking that he'd have to ring us to let us know (because of dinner being made or kept, etc) or to ask our permission. He went on to add that he had never felt comfortable offering one of his mates the fact that if they'd had too much to drink they could crash out at our place.<P>Sometimes I think he's forgotten what we did at the begining of our relationship. He's forgotten that our house is his house and anyone he wants is welcome. He also has forgotten that prior to the pregnancy I always joined him, and we had fun. Now, the last person he wants to go out on the town with is me.<P>Maybe if I keep Plan Aing him, he'll realise that he can enjoy his time with me, and once the house is sold, he might just stop associating debt and responsibility with me. <P>I am trying to stop talking about issues that are causing friction, such as custody and financial arrangements whenever we are together. I try to make those days as pleasant as possible. We joke and carry on. I've even started to flirt hopelessly with him. Yes, we even had sex. At first I was hesitant, thinking that he might reject me yet again, but he didn't. I am trying to carry on like I did in the begining of our relationship, and I see it working with him.<P>He has stopped being angry or defensive with me. He has started to open up a bit. He hasn't yet started being affectionate, but I am hoping that will come, that he won't be able to stop himself. I know that my actions are causing him more confusion, he isn't so sure of himself and his choices as he was a few weeks ago. I also enjoy the fact that he is now cheating on the OW with me. My how the tables have turned.<P>We got into a mini fight tonight, and he called me back to apologise. Wow, was I floored. He said the fight wasn't worth it, that he had done the wrong thing but that it wasn't intentional. We ended the call talking about chrissy presents for each other. He seems to want to have this nice relationship with me, maybe even craves it. <P>I remember once reading here in the forums that the best thing we could do for the betrayers is make it comfortable and safe for them to want to return. I've tried doing that.<P>Sometimes, though, I think maybe I'm being used. That maybe he has no intention of returning, and that this improved behaviour is just until the custody and financial issues are solved. That way, he doesn't loose out too much.<P>Am I being pessimistic, assuming the worst, or is there really hope?<P>Thanks for letting me rant and rave. Any suggestions, or insights, or comments are very, very welcome. <P><BR>------------------<BR><B> <I> Black Heart </B> </I><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Black Heart (edited December 15, 1999).]

Black Heart<P>It sounds like you have reached a turning point in the affair from what you post. Perhaps the grass isn't so green on the other side of the fence after all. I certainly hope this is the case for your sake as it seems you are putting a lot of effort in..<P>The fact that you have beeen getting along so well is great but remember that things will vacilate from time to time from good to bad days. If you continue to deposit love units whilst Plan Aing things can only get better. If his involvment with the OM is waning your deposits are having a greater effect.<BR> <BR>There seems to be another underlying issue of your H feeling controlled in the marriage. My W came up with the fact that she believed I controlled the marriage too much. She sited this as the main reason for wanting her own apartment "so she could finally do something for herself". Of course the fact that she could then see the OM when she felt like it played a big part too.<P>When we get back together this controlling issue is an area that I will need to change in our marriage.<P>Your H sounds as though he may be in "rebellion" mode aginst control, do you think this may be the case.<P>Only my opinion but food for thought.<P>Best wishes<BR>Fairenough<BR>

Hey Black Heart,<P>I've been wondering where you were. It sounds as though you are doing OK. Your relationship with your H seems to be on the improve - at least you are talking and having some good times together. That has to be a major step forward.<P>I have also wondered about my H feeling controlled within our marriage. He had his boys nights out, and stayed at his mates houses, with never any friction from me, but I guess we, as women, do have slightly different priorities. We like to have them home for dinner, to tell them about our 'sometimes boring' little ole days, get mad when the pub comes up at the last minute (usually when we've gone to some trouble to cook a really nice meal - in my case anyway) etc etc etc.<P>It has been said to me by a counseller, that the OW my H is involved with is a security blanket for him, he has no responsibilities to her, and no commitments with her financially, so she is quite appealing. With me, he had a mortgage, 2 children, and couldn't be just himself - he was a husband, a father, a provider and then himself. He got lost somewhere in there. !! That to me is why the OW is so attractive to him. I feel he will try to make this relationship work with OW by hook or by crook, as he has made a decision. Whether it is the right one, or the wrong one, he will hang on to their relationship for all its worth. To not do so, means<BR>A/ Admitting to the biggest, dumbest, stupidist thing he has ever done, and<P>B/ He was WRONG. That big male 'thing', "honey, I'm sorry, I was wrong"<P>My H has trouble saying sorry at the best and easiest of times, let alone with something like this. !!!!!<P>I would let your H go, let him experience the bachelor life. If he really wants this, to go with your blessing will make it so much easier for both of you. If you perhaps give him a hard time, when if it doesnt work out, he will MAKE it work out, for the same reasons my H is going to make this other relationship work. Men generally can't admit to making a mistake. They will hang on to anything that is bad or unhealthy, because they don't want to be seen to have made a mistake.<P>I don't know where these words are coming from this morning, It is just my opinion as you know.<BR>But I feel, from where we all stand, we have to let these betrayers do what they want, when they want it, in order for them to get it all out of their systems. And then, if they come home, it will be because they want to, not because they were blackmailed, or cheated, or anything else.<P>I have lots of hope with your situation. You never know, he may invite you over for dinner. Have a lovely Christmas, it sounds as though you will, and you will with him.<P>Take care, and big hugs for you<P>Jo

Hi Fairenough and Bonnet,<P>The controlling thing is so true, except my H called it power. Just after he walked out, he talked to his mom and she told me that he felt that I had all the power in our relationship, that I made all the decisions, the important ones at least; like when to get married, buy a house, have a baby, move in together, etc. <P>It's funny because I've always felt that it was he who had the power. It was he who chose where we lived, who our friends were, what we ate and drove, the type of wedding and the time and place of it, what we named our D, etc.<P>I said as much to MIL and she had a go at me. She said "No wonder you guys are in such a mess, you've no idea who's running your relationship. You've got no hope!"<P>I tried to explain that because we both felt the other was in control and that neither of us abused that control, we did so well for so long, but she didn't understand. Do you, or, am I wrong? Does each relationship have to have a controlling, dominating partner in order to work?<P>Yeah, I believe that his interest in the OW is waning or has waned. The affair had been going on 15 months when I found out. His first words to me were that it had lost it's luster and he'd been trying to end it. He's not acting like a boy maddly in love. It think it's true that he thinks of her like his security blanket, a safty net incase things don't work out between us, or work out for him on his own. That way he'll never be alone.<P>Fairenough, how do I tackle rebellion mode? God help me, I haven't a clue as to where to start.<P>Bonnet, I don't believe that the betrayers will try to make their affair relationship work by hook or by crook. I think that they try to keep it together until things settle down and then, if they fancy a change, they make it happen. Sure, they don't like to say their sorry (my H being one of them), and if being nice to them and meeting their emotional needs shows them that they are forgiven and dearly loved, it might make it easier to say it and admit their errors after they've come back.<P>I know that that sounds anti-climatic, that the order is wrong, but it fits doesn't it? Forgive them, love 'em, work on improving yourself, love 'em, work on improving your relationship, love 'em, have them return, love 'em, then get an apology. Nah, it's all out of whack, but that seems to be the order my situation is heading in. Is an apology that important?<P>Just another thought, Bonnet, when you say that they'd rather hang on to something bad than admit a mistake. If our marriages were bad, a mistake in themselves, then aren't they admitting an error when the leave? Haven't they done what you think they can't do?<P>Thanks for responding guys, it has helped to get unbiased input on my situation.<P><P>------------------<BR><B> <I> Black Heart </B> </I><BR>