I hope I am in the right place I have been in a relationship with a wondrful woman for 3 years. Its had its ups and downs. But I lover her very much.
over the lst 2 months things have gone down hill. until the 18th of this month then hit bottom . I got a reply from an email message I sent her and it said she doesnt want to be with me anymore, Then the next 2 nights I spent at her house and thought we had gotten thing headed back in the right direction. Then Monday of this week I Thought I would surprise her and take her some flowers and a card. Well I showed up at her house and the was her coworker there. I knoced on the door and left the flowers and left befor seeing her. Then I turned around and went back to confront her and him .. she had gotten the flowers but when I returned in 5 min she woulndt answer the door. and they both hid in her bedroom. Well I was devestaed and left without talkig to her. I did call but just got yelled at and hung up on.... Weell I didnt sleep a min Monday night and started putting the pieces together. She had confronted me about 2 months ago and said a coworker that lives in the town I do had told her that they had seen a woman at my house several times ariving at 10 pm and leaving at 3am.. I was shocked I never had even the thaough of being unfathfull snd told her that was a outright lie. She responded what would this person make that up etc.
Well the coworker that was at her house monday night just happens top be the same one that lives in in the same town I do. ( Humm pices just fell into place for me. Well i sentbher an E mail that night and told her I was hurt and etc. aloge with some nasty words and pointing out to her the same that i just did her. That this person lied to her to get into her pants.
Well we talked on the phone yesterday for the first time for a couple hours and I did explaine I loved her and still wanted the relationship to continue. We have been through so much and I really dont want to have wasted 3 years.. She explained she needed time to think and I tried to get some timeline out of her she said just giver her some time. So I told her I am going to see a councler and want her to join me at some point.

Her is my Message I sent her
Hi Kim
I want to thank you for our Chat today I hope You can understand and allow us our Chance or "Charm" .
We have been through allot together. Very Good Times, Heartbreaking as well as everything in between. My Love for you runs very very Deep, as I told you I have never felt this way about anyone or for anyone!!!!!. I know I have made mistakes and for that I am truly sorry I never intended to hurt you. My love and Commitment was always there.
I know I would make you a wonderful husband, partner, soul mate and you would make a wonderful wife also.
I am aware that I can no more force you to stay today, than I could have made you go out on our first date, Sept 14th 1999 or fall in love with me (I remember the Date you came over and we rented 3 movies and talked all the way through them the times were we were up every night talking until 3 or 4 in the morning) I didn’t pressure you then so I won't now. I will let you go .If you never call me again I will accept your decision. This experience has been very painful but I will make it,
I know If we are ment to be together It will happen, A partnership and Marriage takes work, If we both give it a chance I know it can and will work!!!!!. If we Focused on us as a couple and not what others say or what thay think we would have it all. I will say this again we have had some Wonderful times together and can and would have many many more again.
I can say this with an open heart... YOU HAVE BEEN MY FIRST TRUE LOVE!! And That was and is a scary feeling for me. I will never forget the memories that we shared, I will pray for you and trust God will guide you through the years ahead.

Love

Jim

Any advice would be wonderful

indywaterbum (Jim) --

You are definitely in the right place!

That's a beautiful letter to her, full of love and emotion. I'm sorry for the circumstances that have brought it about. I think you're doing the right things for yourself and for the relationship. Three years is a solid history, worthy of preservation. I hope, with you, that it works out for the two of you.

Ups and downs are the norm in most relationships with a history of this length. Advice? -- hang in, keep focused but don't lose yourself in the process, get into counseling (with someone good!), pray unselfishly, and continue to love her.

She's asked for "time to think" so I believe you'll want to respect that. Sometimes the hardest thing we are asked to do is just to stand in the wings and wait for our cue (to use a theater axiom). Maybe that's what's called for here.

Our best wishes and our prayers are with you. Post again and keep us updated.

Ammon

Thanks for the words of encuragement ... Part of me wants to run as far away from her as I can from the hurt. but I know in my heart I love her and this can be worked through

I broke down and sent this now what?

Miss You.. "Charm"

I can't walk away or give up.. My gut and heart won't
allow me. Why is this happing to us... I go from
heartbroken hurt guilt to anger because You and I both
know that there was more to you and him before the
18th.. .. I dont know what I did or what need of yours
I didnt meet but I Do know we can get through this and
become closer and have a wonderful life together..
I can understand how you must be feeling also maybe
the same as me Guilt hurt confusion and that it would
be hard to see eachother. But I can't give up on you
or us. Dont be scared of putting this back together or
our future together. We can Make it and become a
stronger couple.

Lets do this together... no walls no minulipition no
dihonesty You and I heart to heart cheek to cheek..



Jim

I talked on the phone with her last night. It went ok. we id get into a mild argument.
I think I should just give up

indywaterbum --

Jim: no giving up allowed! Not until you've done everything you can do to preserve this relationship. Of course you're discouraged, heartbroken, puzzled, frustrated, disconsolate, devastated...all of the above, but hanging in there, having patience, giving it time, giving it everything you can give is vital to the process.

How would you feel about yourself down the road if you didn't give it your all at this stage? If you turn your back and walk away now and this thing continues to fall apart, you'll never know if you could saved it. She can't help in the process right now, she can only chip away at what you have, she's in the way. That's what The Fog does to people and relationships.

So the only one functioning here is YOU. The only one able to affect positively the outcome at this stage is YOU. The only one seemingly who cares is YOU. If you pack it in at this point, there's not much hope for you two. Stay with it. Hang in.

You want this resolved and back on track "yesterday," but that's not going to happen. It's going to take time and love and plenty of patience on your part. This is a disease and as much as we'd like to take a pill or two and cure things overnight, this process needs to run its course. Things in your relationship didn't fall apart over in a day and they won't be fixed in a day.

How much do you want to keep you two together? How much time and effort and energy do you want to expend to preserve it? Give it time, give her time, give yourself time.

We're here for you, Jim, please don't get any more discouraged than you are already. Let the process do its thing.

Ammon

I am still torn.. its very painful, We had always talked about fathfullness, she had a marriage were she said her husband screwed around on her. I told her I would Never do that and here she does it to us, and even though we are not married, it doesnt make it easy. I had alway been very committed to her and thought that she was to me also.. I think I just need to let go for now I think she knows were I stand.

Thanks everyone for your support. I Went to see a counselor and wow did I learn some things about myself and our relationship, We didn’t spend much time talking on or about the relationship at my appointment it was more focused about me. I was asked and recommended to buy a few books and all I can say is Wow. It was an Eye opener for me, I know now what type of mistakes we both made and how we each reacted to them. How we both didn't listen enough to each other express our need and wants. I could go On and on but for now I will keep it short. I am not going to give up but I also am not going to hang on to tight , I am going to give things time and work on myself, and hope we can start again. I do know this woman brought me to a point of love that I didn’t know was possible.
Then some of the things in my past started haunting me and I should have sat her down to talk about them openly and honesty when she brought them up. As well as her sharing the same with me. I think I felt if I was totally honest with somr of the Seemed either I or both were scared of Love and hurt or Judgments. I am sure it was very destructive to the relationship trust and each other. I wish I could turn the clocks back and start anew, but that is not how things work, I know that I can and will learn how to better communicate with honest drop dead truth about feelings issues wants needs history and future.
I do truly know that I love this woman like I never loved anyone. I am going to give her space and time.
I just can only hope and pray that somehow we keep in touch so she notices and maybe wants to try again.

I keep going back and forth,I think the best thing for both of us right now is for me to move on. I really dont think or believe she could look me in the eye after this.. I was always accused of having an affair or interested in another person and nothing could be farther from the truth. Now here she is mabe not techolny having an affair because we are not married but the way it came about is very strange. I gave her a link to this website and hopefully she at least looks it over. There is so much Info here, I wish I would have found it much sooner.

Jim --

You can't just pack it in. You have to stay the course, be involved, care about the outcome from the inside out. Don't give up just yet. It's far too early in the process for the outcome to be a clear and sure thing. You're guessing that what you're feeling is the reality, but you don't know and your in great unsettled pain--the worst time in the world to be making life-altering decisions.

Last Thursday, on Thanksgiving Day, you wrote to her, "I can't walk away or give up. My gut and heart won't allow me." So what has changed in these few days? Why today? Sure it hurts, probably more than anything you've ever gone through, but is she worth your pain?

See, I'm all for preserving what can be preserved and you don't know at this point that it can't be resurrected. Well, do you? All you know is you're despondent and hurting...and that's where we come in; we can help with that piece of it.

I'm glad you're posting and keeping us informed. We want to know how you're doing so updates are very welcome. Give it time; have patience. Please hang in, Jim, we're here 24/7 and we're very willing to sit with you through this mess.

Ammon

Your words and thoughts are very helpful. Without getting into details, (No unfaithfulness was involved. In this breakup) we had separated last year for about 3 or 4 months (my choice). I was very angry with her but I still loved her I just needed time to cool down from what she had done to me. Well she was very persistent and she did give me time, she would call on occasion just to chat, and say hello. Then we went back out again and I totally fell back in love with her.

But this time is different. I know she is and she knows I know about the OM. Now were do we go from here if the is any chance for us? I know she is very angry with me right now I said some mean things, Or if its because of me catching her in a lie, but she did say to me she didn’t lie because she broke up with me 4 days earlier and at that time she wasn't dating him so she says,

I did tell her I was sorry for what I said and was just angry and didn’t mean what I said. I don't know what to believe anymore .My heart and thoughts tell me to hold on but the fear of pain and waiting tells me to move on. I really don’t think she has the strength to face me...I can only imagine the guilt and shame people must feel when they do things like this. I know when I do something wrong the guilt I feel is tremendous and most of the mistakes when I do get that feeling the first thing I do is call the person and say I am sorry. But with this type I can only imagine what it would be like to have to live with that the rest of your life and if the new relationship goes anywhere. Can you ever trust yourself or the one you are with to be faithful without doubting yourself your partner? Or are you doomed to repeat yourself relationship after relationship? A lot of what I have been reading, Says that if both partners work at a relationship that has been through crises like this tend to come out stronger than ever.

So I am still not sure were to turn, I really don’t want to hold out any false hope but its very difficult and painful to carry it also.

Thanks Ammon

I do enjoy your words of wisdom and Hope.

Well I have been doing alot of reading and a lot more reading, That seems to be all I have been doing, trying to learn as much as I can and put in into use. I know for myself I am in a sence going to give up. I am not going to sit and wallow in my sorrow, I am going to go on with my life as if it was trully over. Call it my way to protect myself, I will continue to love her but My heart can't take the pain and Guilt. I called her this moring and said hello and asked that she call me tonight, I have a few things of hers that I know she wants and I am also going to tell her I am sorry and ask forgiveness because of a couple lies I did tell her... That did become issues durning our relationship. I was reading the honesty section of Dr harlys book and if we do come out of this mess I need to come clean and ask forgiveness and stop letting pride get in the way of love..

Well I talked with her last night, She Returned my call after she got home from work, we chatted about 15 min, then she had a call come in she said she would call back and she did, but said she had to keep it short but would call back, then bigger surprise she did call back later that night. I asked her forgiveness and admitted to my lies and mistakes and told her I was sorry and that hurt her and lost her trust. I valaded every concern she had not just to say it but I really understood it!!!!!! and am deeply sorry. I told her that I did love her and that I was never unfaithful to her, that I was always committed to her and the relationship We chatted about her family etc. I told her I had found a few items and pictures that I thought she might want and told her I would mail them to her but she asked I hold onto them that she would meet me sometime to pick them up. I Now what do I do? Just wait Give up and move on? I want to send a token of my thoughts etc. Flowers etc. but don;t want to pressure her.. I was bad at giving flowers etc, and I trully want her to not think its a an act. I have as I said been seeing a councler and that has been a real eye opener for me. I am dealing with a couple issues that i need to get past witch became problems in the relationship, we did discuss them a bit las night and I streesd to her how very excited I am that I understand the issue and am taking steps to resolve them. She seemed very interested in that asked a few questions.

Well I talked with her last night, She Returned my call after she got home from work, we chatted about 15 min, then she had a call come in she said she would call back and she did, but said she had to keep it short but would call back, then bigger surprise she did call back later that night. I asked her forgiveness and admitted to my lies and mistakes and told her I was sorry and that hurt her and lost her trust. I valaded every concern she had not just to say it but I really understood it!!!!!! and am deeply sorry. I told her that I did love her and that I was never unfaithful to her, that I was always committed to her and the relationship We chatted about her family etc. I told her I had found a few items and pictures that I thought she might want and told her I would mail them to her but she asked I hold onto them that she would meet me sometime to pick them up. I Now what do I do? Just wait Give up and move on? I want to send a token of my thoughts etc. Flowers etc. but don;t want to pressure her.. I was bad at giving flowers etc, and I trully want her to not think its a an act. I have as I said been seeing a councler and that has been a real eye opener for me. I am dealing with a couple issues that i need to get past witch became problems in the relationship, we did discuss them a bit las night and I streesd to her how very excited I am that I understand the issue and am taking steps to resolve them. She seemed very interested in that asked a few questions.

Ok Trying to control of my excitement, and hope, but not sure what to make of this. I sent flowers yesterday and a stuffed bear to her work. I also called her last night and left a message just saying hello not thinking she would call back. Surprise surprise she called we chatted about her day and her new position at work some small stuff. Then she brought up out of the blue if I was Dating anyone, I said no, She asked why I didn’t call her last Friday, I said that you asked me to give you time so as much as I wanted to I didn’t call. She said well I thought you would be dating , I thought for a moment and asked her if she really wanted to know why I wasn’t She said yes. So Told her what I was feeling how much I loved her and that we have been through to much together to just walk away from this I said that I believed in her and that part of me knows she still loves me and I just wasn’t going to give up when I know I found the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with. I told her I have been committed from the first time I said I loved you and wasn’t going to waver from that. I told her I am In this through Good times and Bad . and what my goal was, she brought up our trust Issue and again I took full reasonability for breaking our trust because of a couple lies I again was validating her feelings. She seemed more relaxed and asked me why I lied to her. I told her it doesn’t matter why I lied because it was just wrong of me, and then I explained why. She asked me what my goals were, I explained what my goals were hope's etc. For me and for the both of us to survive this, She then asked me how it felt to be lied to I said it was horrible etc. and I told her I understood why she lied etc. Well we talked a lot about trust honesty etc. How this was a wake up call to me and that I wasn’t ready to walk away from this, asked her forgiveness again. Told her how my counseling sessions were going. She seemed interested and excited at times but then would try and pull me into an argument with her but I would diffuse it by validating her feelings again. I told her we could make it through this stronger happier etc. that it would take time and I was making the necessary changes in me for the future. Again goals and hopes, She said that she wasn’t the yet. I said I understand but hopefully you will allow us the chance, again she said right now she wasn’t there yet. I know she is confused and I know she need a lot of conversation and lots of verble reassurance. so I am a bit confused ok a lot confussed I asked her if I could call her and I didnt get a no.. I then told her to call me and she siad give me some time.. But My thinking is If I pursue her and call I might driver her away but If I wait for her to call I aslo build the insurety of her thinking I don;t care and that I met someone else hence the question asking why I didnt call her Last friday night.. We used to talk on the phone every night for hours when we couldnt be together.

What To Do Now.. Please Help… Did I say to much what does all this mean ?

HELP

<small>[ December 06, 2002, 03:57 PM: Message edited by: indywaterbum ]</small>

Should I send this....

Just a follow up to our talk last night, I need you to truly understand were my commitment is and that I would never walk out on you trough the tough times we have in the past and now. No matter what I am still here… I don’t think it could get any more difficult than now. I understand your fear and you don’t want to get hurt again. I don’t either If I thought I was going to get hurt or hurt you again I wouldn’t be going to this length to salvage what we still have left and build a wonderful relationship built on Honesty loyalty commitment trust. I can only pick up on your thought to me last week. Were when did get back together we never dealt with the underling issue.. Well Now I am and its working I am very excited about it or you never would have gotten that call from me asking for forgiveness. I am going to continue working on it without or preferably with you. I have learned so Very very much in the last Month and want to be able share it with you. One thing I have found from reading and learning and listing I know what love is, I know now what is expected of me in a relationship and marriage. I can offer that to you 110% no games lies nothing hiding the man you fell in love with the man you shared everything with. We have shared so very very much and there is so much more we can share and do together.
To just walk away and give up I can’t You mean so very much to me. I have been told a hundred times that if you love something set it free. Kim I only want to see you happy.. My hope is its with me. I feel I can’t compete with someone else especially one you work so close with. But I am not going to give up. I am confused I want to hold on and keep my commitment with you but I don’t want to be chasing a shadow. My love is so great but my heart is so broken. I know this can and will work. It will take time but it will be well worth it I know understand so much more having to bear the pain I know that part of total honesty is letting down your Pride and opening up to get hurt. I only want total honesty from you as well as you getting the same from me.

Jim

My update
I chatted with her last night and not sure what, to feel, The OM lives in the town I do and over the last 2 weekends she very casually has inquired about what I did on the weekends
I figured out that her with or without OM have been driving by my house.
(I cleaned my Garage out over the weekend and have been parking in my garage because it sucks scraping windows in the morning something I had been putting off all summer)
She very matter of factly asked who I was dating. I told her nobody that I was nowhere near giving up on us.

Now she thinks I am dating because she hasn’t seen my truck in the driveway when she drives by,( Last Friday I went to uncles birthday party and she questioned what I did last Friday night last night she just asked what I did over the weekend) . I did answer her question about what I did all weekend and that I was home all weekend. I even told her I cleaned out the garage.

She told me that she doesn’t want to give me any FALSE HOPE. That she needs her time and space. So I will giver her that. She also said doesn't trust me at all

She thinks I have been unfaithful to her or might be in the future and she doesn't trust me because I lied to her in the past. But what I lied about had nothing to do with us. It was before her and I were together. How can this be overcome? I know she still loves me. but without any trust is seems I should just move on..

This woman has over the last year has in her anger and Jealousy trashed my house because I went out and played pool with my business partner one night when we got in a argument. On Several occasions snuck in my Office and went through everything thinking I was having an affair, Found an E mail message from a woman I dated a year before we met and that message was dated the same time and she has used that as a wedge between us. . She called my ex wife after we had an argument and I left to cool off. I have felt at times so controlled by her insecurity and interrogating me about what I do who I talk to
I am the most committed man there is Through all the attacks on me false accusations assumptions, She has at times set me up tried to be manipulative to see if I would slip up and her catch me in a lie, It never happened She used our friends to try the same, now the same friends found out we are separated and they called to say they were sorry for allowing Kim to manipulate them and me. That there reason they had lost contact with us was of how Kim made them feel They didn’t ever want to be put in that situation again. I guess Kim Called them a couple months ago and they told her that they didn't like the position they were put in and they expressed it to her along with some other thoughts etc.

Now through all this I still love her and somehow think I should hang on. But even my counselor thinks I should run.My friends Think I should Run. I am rereading this and I can't believe I still love her

How can trust be rebuilt if at all ??? Am I the one thats Crazy for putting up with this?

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: indywaterbum ]</small>