Seven weeks ago my wife told me she wanted to get divorced - kind of out of the blue - yes, we have problems but mostly what I expect everyone else has.
I convinced her that we should see a psychologist to try to work on the issues - but thats turned into a 'how can we get him to accept this'

After the second weekly meeting, and after I find out she's made an appointment with a lawyer, she tells me she had an affair with an online friend this past summer (they had sex twice in our house while I was at work)

She tells me that she considers me her best friend, but that she is no longer sexually or romantically interested in me. She says the feelings are gone and any attempt to rekindle them would be forcing it and unnatural.

We have two children ages 5 1/2 and 18 months.

My wife's past is complicated - she was raped twice as a teen. Once at a party she attended, and once in her own home (her siblings had a party when the parents were out of town and someone entered her room while she was asleep.) In college she had two relationships where her boyfriends cheated on her (she walked in on them both times) and another relationship in which she was physically abused.

It seems that nothing I try will change her mind - she is convinced that she is the way she is and nothing will change her - she is convinced that she wants to be 'single and able to date who she wants and do what she wants'

I love her very much and the thought of not being able to hold her and love her crushes me. Yes she cheated on me and maybe I'm a fool but it doesn't make me love her any less.

I've talked to friends and the psychologist and everyone tells me I need to accept that I cannot change her mind and move on. I feel like I'm giving up on someone I love and don't understand how I can just 'move on and accept it' - but I don't see as I have any other choice.

Not sure why I'm posting here, maybe because I figure most of you have been where I am now. Maybe you can share some advice that might make this easier on me, I don't know.

All I do know is that my emotions have been all over the place lately and I feel as if I'm at my wits end. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks for listening...

awd --

Man, I really hate these "move on with your life" types -- wait until it happens to them so that they'll REALLY know what this pain feels like.

Not good advice for you, I'm afraid. You don't need to be told to get on with things; you need to have your feelings accepted and validated -- and you'll get that here on this board. Don't give up on anything until YOU are ready to, and that could be a very long time.

Welcome to MB -- you're right, many of us have been exactly where you are and we're with you all the way through this because we know what it feels like. Unless this psychologist is a pro-marriage MC, don't spend any more time or money in that office.
Around here, we say that The Fog has rolled in which guarantees responses from your W almost exactly like what you're getting, in other words, she's true to form. So what you're experiencing with her is not in the least unusual. She's not interested in you romantically or sexually, she wants to "be single" and she has lost all of her feelings for you as a husband = Fog-Speak. She can't and won't think or act or speak rationally until The Fog is gone and that won't happen until the A is finished, either in fact or in her mind.
What you're feeling about all this is also natural. You've been sandbagged from behind (I was too) and hurt very badly. You have to hang in there because at this point you're the only apparent advocate for your marriage. Post here anytime, day or night. You've got a good bunch of people on this board and they're sensitive and wise and ready to help you.

Being "at your wit's end" fortunately has led you right here = a very good place to be. Please update us soon and let us know how you're doing. We're here for you...

Ammon

Welcome! You've found a safe place to receive some much needed support.

Did your W have some indepth counseling to work through all the issues she has got to have had/have because of her past abuse? If not, it may not be a very good outlook for the future as it stands now.

If you can get her to continue seeing an individual counselor for her childhood/young adult problems from her past...it's possible that she'll work through them and make a good decision as to what she wants to do with her life next.

Since the two of you have small children, if she becomes "well" she may realize just how lucky she is and choose to try to repair the damage that she has caused in your marriage. It's possilbe that she won't even if she does work through all those issues...but at least she'll be making that decision from a healthy mental state. jmho

You may want to look over this site and read up on Plan A. This plan is ONE way of dealing with a spouse who seems to be in confusion. The main goal is to make yourself healthier and happier, no matter what the spouse does, but it also attempts to help you focus on the positives in the marriage when dealing with the WS (wayward spouse) instead of continually LB (love busting) which is something that many BS find very hard not to do when in so much pain and confusion of their own.

Much on this site is very helpful...if it can be applied to your situation. READ! Then take from it what you feel will benefit you and your marriage.

Good Luck!

Thanks for your responses, good to know I'm not 'alone' out here.

To answer some of your questions - the affair with this one guy is over - she hasn't spoken to him in a month or two (or so she claims, she told me the other day she thinks he's dating someone else.)

Anyway, we both spend way too much time messing around on the Net, and our latest obsession for the past year as been another online game. This is where she met the guy in question - and where she continues to meet lots of guys who show her a lot of attention - I think this is part of what feeds her ego with this whole thing -sigh-. So while this last guy is supposably 'history' there is always another guy there waiting. I suppose the 'fantasy' of these relationships outweighs the reality of our real life, so I guess while the specific incident is over - I don't think the concept is at all.

As for the psychologist - she seems of the mindset of 'well, if she isn't ready to change, she's not going to, so you have to accept that and decide what you want to do, but you can't change her'

My wife and I went to a counciler about 4 years ago when were were having difficulties - we never really got anywhere tho - the last time we went we started talking about her past, the rapes, she got very upset and stormed out - last visit.

I reminded my wife about that recently, she claimed to not remember (maybe she did block it out, I dunno) - So to answer that question - no, she has never received any profession help with either the rape issue or the abuse issue. I have told her that I think she does need to see someone about it. She responded with something like: 'I'm a smart person, I know what happened to me, I know I can't do anything about it, its changed me, and thats just the way it is - no one is going to make it go away.'

I get the impression that my wife thinks she's broken, she can't be fixed that this is the way her life has to be, and that changing it, or trying to change it would be too difficult and painful.

She was given up for adoption, her adopted dad died when she was 5, her mom remarried a few years later and she gained 3 step-siblings, her step sister died in a car accident when she was a teen. She met her birthmom and two half-sisters 3 years ago - only to have one of her half-sisters die in a car accident last year.

Does this sound like a really, really bad TV movie yet? The sad part is all of this is true, I'm not making it up. (believe me, I wish I was)

3 years ago after things started getting bad in our relationship I convinced her to seek help - the best I could do was to get her to visit the Dr, where she got a prescription for prozac. This did help her a lot, she could deal with the 'little annoyances' a lot better - but after a few months she quit taking it claiming she didn't like the way is 'numbed' her.

Last fall she decided on her own that she wanted to go on it again - and has been on it ever since (although she recently had her dosage increased.)

She keeps pushing forward with wanting to get seperated. Wants to 'get it done by the end of the year' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> - says if I don't help she's just going to go to the lawyer and do it anyway.
She thinks (hopes?) we can live in the same house, for the kids. She's moved to our spare bedroom, moved her things out of our bathroom. Wants to split the bills, different checking accounts, credit cards, refinance the cars, etc - Thinks we should sell the house and buy a duplex.

Heh, you guys are probably going to think I'm some goofball trolling your boards after you read all this. Believe me, I'm not making this up. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

She's told me she'd sign an agreement saying she'd only date two people a year; has almost come right out and asked if i'd be interested in dating a coworker/friend of hers.

I feel like I'm in a bad TV-movie. (and no, I haven't been drinking either, but maybe that would help!)

Part of me is scared for her, I feel that the kids and I are the only stable thing in her life and she's on this self-destruct course. Then another part of me thinks I'm being overly dramatic and just can't let go. That I would probably be better off if I just gave up and tried to find someone else. (But then I'd be an a$$ for giving up on her!) Heh, I can here the psychlogist now 'you can't save her, she can only save herself'

Heh, didn't think it was possible to go off on a rant while typing, guess it is.

And the psychlogist would be correct!

She's had a lot to deal with in her short life, sure, it's possible to deal with what happened to her on her own...but not likely. From your description...don't think she's done a good job.

You might inform her that there are so many new anti-depression meds which can make her much better. I'd guess that what she is taking right now isn't quite the right one for her, she may need a combination instead of only one. (My H takes two different ones which work on different areas of the brain...and it's been wonderful since he's switched.) She needs to see a specialist who deals with depression. (And a counselor who specializes in rapes and abuse...not a marriage counselor....that can come later as she heals, if YOU still wish to rebuild at that time.)

If she is unwilling to reach out for help...there is NOTHING you can do to change this fact.

Right now, you've got two small children who MUST come first in your mind. Do what is needed to protect their rights and your rights as their father. This in no way means you must run right down and file for a divorce...but at least get some good legal advice and find out how your state laws read and what options you may face in the future. It's always a good idea to be prepared and informed...before you are thrown into the deep end of the pool.

Have you thought about throwing out the computers and spending those hours when you are normally on here to talk? The internet is a wonderous place, but it's also a place where we can be whoever we wish to be, project ourselves only as much as we wish, and run into some really strange and odd people...who are not who they say they are.

Good Luck!

awd, I would like to suggest you give some serious thought about telling her that you love her very much and that if her happiness is to be single again, you will not stand in her way. Why would you say such a thing? because she probably feels that being married is a yoke around her neck and if she sees that you will not try to convince her otherwise, she might have second thoughts about divorcing you.

God bless.

awd
You are not alone. My WS has said much of what you describe. She even suggested we build a garage where I would live, she would cook and do my laundry - she said that was her duty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
She even suggested that it would be good if I could get together with OPW. WS was absolutely full of fog talk like this
Lots of people have told me to move on with my life. On one website it actually said that GOWYL (Get on with your life) are the 5 most destructive words in the English language.
I have done a Plan A not a very good one perhaps but the best I could do in the circumstances. Now I am doing Plan B. As far as I am concerned I am moving on with my life it is just that I don't know where I am moving to. If it is back with WS only she can decide. In the meantime I am working on becoming a better person, something that was long overdue. That still doesn't stop me from feeling as you do - the loss is overbearing some days. To try to cope I take St John's Wort which I find helps. The postive news is that if you follow the Plan A / Plan B approach you should find you will be able to cope better long term. Moving on is a short term approach that does not solve the underlying problems.
I really can't give you any advice about your W's problem's, IMHO I don't think that you can put pressure on her to look at them. In my case, my WS took no notice of any advice I offerred her once she was in the fog.
Take each day as it comes, read up on the articles and the postings on this site. If you need help with fog talk then Orchid is amazing.
Make it clear to your W that you are there show her that you love her, but if she wants to be single again that you will not stand in her way. If she wants a divorce then she must divorce you.
Look after yourself and your children. The MB members will help you a lot, just post if you need help.
NS

You have received good advice, i have a little more. This is my standard reply to all new BS's to these boards, but you will note that I say a few things about the kind of marriage counselor you had, because they are so common and so destructive. I really STRONGLY recommend the book SAA mentioned below, even though the affair is not ongoing, and your W says that it is really not the issue. Bad marriages contribute to one's vulnerability to affairs. Your W had an affair. Bad marriages usually cause one spouse to get to the "...friend, but ... no longer sexually or romantically interested in me" point, which is where your wife is. SAA can give you a vision of what a good marriage should look like where the "no longer in love w/ you" thing is very unlikely to be heard, and the tools to get there.
-----------
1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair”. It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Again - thank you for the advice being given.

Yes, I have considered just boxing up the computers and canceling the Internet account. Especially after our 5 year old daughter complained to us yesterday that we 'spend too much time playing on the computer and not enough time playing with her.'

I currently see the computers and the Internet as the device than enabled us to drift apart and enabled her to find other men to fill the void.

However the big problem at this point is:

She doesn't want to change, doesn't think it can be fixed and doesn't want to put herself through the pain of trying.

I realize a few things after reading the advice and articles of this site and doing a lot of thinking on my own.
1. I can't make her change her mind, she needs to decide that on her own - and she may never.
2. As long as she hides behind the computer, she won't change her mind.

I still feel that there is something I should be able to do to convince her to reconsider. But I guess I'll think that way the rest of my life.

I just don't know what to do next.
NY requires 1 year seperation before divorce can be filed, unless fault is declared against one party, from my understanding.
Do I go along with a legal seperation and give her space?
How can I keep trying to reconcile or get counciling when she is so against it?
How do I deal with the fact that she wants to develop relationships with others?

How do I know when I should just give up, face 'reality' and try to find happiness with someone else. Even if I do that - how do I not let what happen happen again.

I feel as if so much of the advice I've been given by friends, people here, the psychologist and the articles here conflicts with each other. Not that I expect answers, I guess it all boils down to what do I feel in my own heart.

I have one friend telling me I should stay faithful to her during a seperation to show my commitment - I have another telling me I should start dating since it might shake her up.

I guess it could all be summed up as: life sucks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Now who's giving up? You, not her. If you have given up, why are you here?

Get SAA. Read it. You can do some things on your own to persuade her it is worth trying. Not if you don't care, though.

Awd --

1) It's not life that sucks, it's the few misguided people in it who make poor and selfish choices without regard for anyone but themselves. Don't blame life; it's never life.

2) If things ever reach that point for you, you'll KNOW when it's time to "give up." Otherwise, don't even consider it -- it's not an option here.

3) Run as fast as you can in the opposite direction from the "friend" who's telling you to start dating to shake up your W. Is that really where your heart is leading you? Do you need additional complications on top of everything else? You have two young children to consider here too. Do they need Dad dating? Besides, you're a married man and you're not free to date. You have a life and a family and incredible responsibilities to all parties. Don't even go there.

4) Don't know where these supposed "conflicts" are coming from; everyone on this board seems remarkably consistent. You need to stay focused here. Don't let your goal get sidetracked; stay on the main line. We're here to help; let us do our job. No sabotage permitted.

There's lots of baggage here to be sorted out and it's going to take time and patience for both of you. How much pain is she worth?

Ammon

Maybe the conflict is coming from my own head - I dunno. I do know that after nearly 8 weeks, while I feel like I can actually function and focus again on every day tasks like my job, that my mind is no clearer on the issue. My wife said to me tonight she's 'tired of my multiple personality' - meaning I guess that one minute i'm affecitonate towards her - the next I make a 'snippy' comment (neither of which she 'wants') and the next I'm 'normal' - to use her words.

My only thought is 'what do you expect from me?'

I looked my wife in the eyes tonight and said: 'I love you, I'm not ready to give up on you or move on. You are too important to me - and believe it o r not you are worth it.' - she replied (without looking me in the eyes) 'Well you are stupid then and need to face reality.'

She went on to say to me later something to the effect of 'I've decided its over, it is, and I'm going to start acting like we are seperated and you don't have anything to say about it.'

This is where I get lost. Yes, I accept the fact that I cannot make her change her mind. But how can I push or prod her without pushing her further away? Like all my attempts seem to be doing. (Yes, the SAA book is on order, I'm hoping I gain some insight.)

She's moved out of our bedroom, moved her things out of our bathroom, taken off her ring - started making financial arrangements to split our assets (or i suppose i should say debts&bills - haha)

Reading about this Plan A/B scenarios it seems that A isn't feasible because she is against trying - and B to me... with the kids I don't think I have the strength to do that. I want so badly to be in their lives every day - too much happens at this young an age (5y & 18m)

So what does that leave me with? She wants to be legally seperated by the end of the year. Yes, I can drag my feet, but she's already told me she will do it with or without my help - and part of me fears that if I try to stall she'll do something we'll both regret.

I feel like there are two people inside my head.

The first thinks - give up, its too hard, she doesn't want you, she's right it can't be fixed, your just being selfish trying to hold on - and maybe she is right - maybe there is someone else out there for me. Lets just make the best of a bad situation and learn to live with it.

The second says 'shut the [censored] up!' to the first voice. I love her - she's one of the three most important people in my life. I promised I would be there for her, to stand by her 'in good times and bad' - she's my best friend - with beautiful eyes, a cute little nose and a fantastic smile. She's got a good heart. -sigh- We have both screwed things up - but it can't be too late to fix it.

I worry about being strong enough to stay committed to her - and I worry about being foolish and deluding myself that there is hope when there isn't. Ammon - you said that I'll 'know' when its time to give up. I guess since I don't 'know' yet, thats my answer - heh. The problem is I face life as both a realist and a romantic (atleast I think I do) - the realist tells me its over - the romantic tells me to never give up.

I'm probably starting to babble, could probably keep going around in circles typing at this point... thanks for reading to those that have. I guess if nothing else at this point this board gives me some place to vent/release. Time for bed.

awd --

Remember The Fog! As long as it's around, she can't/ won't be able to respond any differently. I say "for now" to all of the points you've raised; doesn't mean it's for tomorrow or always.

Remember that you love her, that she's the mother of your children, that you want to (need to) preserve this marriage and your family if at all possible. Keep your eye on the goal. As these things run, eight weeks is a drop in the bucket. Have patience, my friend, give it time, give her time, give yourself time.

Remember that what your W has brought to the table in your marriage is a long-established and very full plate of excess baggage. She is a product of her past (as are we all) and much (maybe most) of where she is today is shaped and molded and controlled by those events. Long before you ever came into the picture, she was learning behaviors and reactions and about life from that perspective. Unfortunately--and this is my situation also--we get to "reap the rewards" of those learnings.

Remember that marriage recovery and recommitment is a long and immensely involved process, if it happens at all. Time and patience are your two strongest allies. You've got to have huge quantities of both, mixed with lots of questions and and doubts, fears and tears. Right now--today --she's not interested--so you don't go there with her. Don't try to "teach" her anything at this point, as tempted as you may be, since it won't "take" and will create more friction.

Remember that there are no guarantees here. You (and she) can do and say all the right things from here on in and still have things fall apart.

Remember--always--that we're here for you, any time and all the time. We'll help you all we can. Stay focused and keep your eye always on the goal.

Ammon

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Reading about this Plan A/B scenarios it seems that A isn't feasible because she is against trying </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then you do not understand Plan A. This is the specific circumstance for which Plan A was designed. Despite the fact that she is withdrawn, w/d is never complete, especially when kids are involved. There are little windows of opportunity when they let their guard down. People withdraw when they have given up hope that their marriage will ever improve, and/or their spouse will ever change sufficiently to stop causing them the pain they are suffereing because of percieved abuse or neglect. You have got to change yourself so that when those windows of opportunity happen, she sees a different you. It may not be convincing enough to draw her back (btw, think "pulling", not "pushing" or "prodding"), but it is your only chance. Besides which, you will learn a tremendous amount that will serve you well in a future relationship, if that becomes the only option. Your kids deserve an intact family. Don't give up. You will hate yourself if you do not do everything you can.

-sigh- Well, tonight we had another meeting with the psychologist - apparently our last - she sees it as waste of time.

My wife is still seeing seperation as the only option. She keeps looking at it as 'I need to get this paper signed because state law says I can't get divorced for 12 months from that point.'

She wants me to 'work with her' to come to terms on a seperation so that we don't have to 'spend a lot of money on lawyers and get into debt.'

I told both her and the psychologist that I accept the fact that I can't make her change her mind, I accept the fact that she needs to do what she needs to do, but that I am not ready to give up and don't feel I can facilitate the seperation by 'working with her.'

Her response was something like 'well you are forcing me to call the lawyer and things will get ugly, nasty and expensive - and we'll wind up hating each other and you'll get screwed.'

The dr asked why things would have to turn out that way and her response was that the 'Lawyer will make it that way'

I could only say that how she proceeded, what happened next and how things turned out was entirely up to her, not a lawyer.

I really am unsure of myself now. Part of me thinks that maybe I should work with her on the seperation agreement - that if I 'force' her down this path that she is threatening that things will turn ugly, perhaps getting to the point of no return.

Should I work with her and be supportive of this? It seems counter-productive to me - but might it not be more damaging to not go along with it?

I really do think its gotten to the point that I do need to consult a lawyer of my own. I don't know what she can or can't do without my consent and I am worried that in her current state of mind a lawyer could encourage her to become vindictive/aggressive in pursuing this.

So far she gives me not even a glimer of hope. Keeps repeating the same thing 'I just don't feel that way any more'

She started something new tonight as well. A week ago she presented me with a spreadsheet of our bills/debts and our monthy income. She wanted to talk about how we could split things up. I had told her that in my mind what would be fair would be to split our 'joint-family' bills into 25% her, 25% me, 50% kids - then split the kids share between us based on the percentage of our income (I make more than she does each month, so would shoulder more burden for the kids.) She was fine with this until the spreadsheet was recalculated and she saw I'd have several hundred more dollars than her at the end of the month - suddenly it was 'unfair'. She brought this up during tonight's session again - when asked why it was unfair - she kind of waffled - she says she doesn't expect me to support her - but says if she 'planned on being a single-mom years ago she'd have gone into a different profession and shouldn't have to suffer because she didn't'
Also, I said earlier that she moved out of our bedroom and bathroom. Now she is telling me since I have a 'private bedroom and bathroom' that I should 'pay more towards the house' - just gotta shake my head at this 'logic'

Its like she's in this fantasy world - thinking things will be fine and wonderful as long as she 'gets rid of me' - and now the reality is starting to set in. She is going to be 'on her own' financially - and she's not going to have the money to 'play'.

Ugh, I don't know what to think - other than not to give up on her. Still not sure tho, should I go along with this, or no.

Thanks again for reading and leting me vent.

some quick thoughts;

1 -- be patient (it sucks, i know...).
2 -- don't get drawn into arguments & escalations.
3 -- your W seems depressed. so, don't let W drive major life decisions (which affect you & your kids) based on how she feels while she is depressed.

there's a lot at stake for you. get professional help if you can. prayers for your family.

awd --

It's not "like" she's in this fantasy world; she is smack-dab in the middle of it.

I wouldn't play this game of "25% for you" and "private bath" nonsense. Don't play it! It's manipulative, destructive, degrading, very painful, and totally non-productive. Walk the other way when she gets out the spreadsheets. Besides, if and when the attorneys get in the picture, that's what you're paying them to do so that you can stay out of the fray and the daily sniping and logistical battles. Do you really want to sit there with her and divide up your assets, your family, and your life?

Once reality intrudes into her world of make-believe, she's going to have to address the practicalities of day-to-day living. You really don't want to make this part easy for her, even though your heart may lead you that way. She's choosing this path, not you, so she's making her own very messy bed here.

You said, "I don't know what to think - other than not to give up on her" -- and that's JOB #1 for you! The rest of this garbage is just that and nothing more. Stay focused; don't be shunted off to the side. We're here for you...

Ammon

I tried to talk with my wife tonight and it seems like it only made matters even worse. I was trying to work towards us going back to counciling, either together or seperately. Suggesting that we should talk about the issues we have as individuals than the issues we have as a couple. I think working towards resolving those problems needs to happen before anything else might be able to be worked on.

I told her how I think that we both are addicted to the computers - which has caused us to grow apart by not doing things together, it also has caused us, in a sense, to neglect our two kids by not spending enough time with them.

She again started pushing the whole seperation issue. How she wants to have time to herself, to be free to do what she wants, when she wants without any strings - how I should be willing to help her get seperated so she can 'find herself.'

Then she started in on how, by me not 'working with her' that I am only pushing her further away, making her hate me. She then told me all she has to do now is 'work up th nerve to go back to the lawyer' and she's going to do it on her own and go for sole custody of our kids - that her thoughts of being able to stay best friends and live together was a 'silly dream of hers.' That since I'm not 'working with' her on getting seperated that she's going to do it the nasty way.

Part of me is worried that she will snap and do exactly what she is threatening. That she will become a mean, spiteful, vengeful person to me and use our kids as pawns. I fear that if she does do that - that all hope will be lost. I guess if I've learned one thing about her in our years together - it that when she feels 'cornered' she puts away the kids gloves.

-sigh- really doubting myself and still trying to figure out what I can do. I'm an engineer by profession and genetics and feel like there has to be something I can do to fix this and make it right. (Maybe this is why I keep thinking a different medication might help her deal with her anxiety and coping - and why I keep thinking her problems might have a medical/mental aspect to them (from reading I even wonder about things like bipolar disorder, etc.)

Ugh!

awd --

Just because your W wants things her way or simply because she makes a statement about things doesn't make any of it true or workable for you.

What's this nonsense about wanting you to "be willing to help her get seperated so she can 'find herself.'" She wants you to be the facilitator here? Maybe figuring that any separation then would be a mutually approved venture? Certainly not on your side...

You've raised some excellent points, both directly to her and in your last post. I say you're going in the right direction with this so don't doubt yourself or your thoughts. This whole idea about separation is her "journey" and you don't need to feel any obligation to assist a process with which you don't agree. Sounds like she's feeling "trapped" in your relationship (not necessarily the truth--remember The Fog) and will use Fog-Speak to attempt to move this thing her way.

Hang in, awd, this is a difficult time and needs your stability and rational thought to hold this together--she's not going to be able to help in this for maybe quite a good while. It's up to you to be there for her...

Ammon

Thanks for the encouragement.

I still fear that she will push forward with this and that things will get ugly.

We spoke this morning a bit more - she was trying to convince me that I should help her move her computer from where we have both of ours, to a room in our basement. Her reasoning was that she would be able to 'be alone and have some privacy'.
This came about after she spoke on the phone with a guy she knows from online (apparently he is divorced and has been giving her 'advice' about her situation) - he suggested that she may just need more 'private time to relax.'
I questioned the idea of moving everything, and why she would need my help to do it. She took this as further 'evidence' that I am not willing to help her and how I'm 'crowding her and not giving her space'

I do think you are right - I think that for a variety of reasons she is unhappy with her life and the things in it. She does feel trapped in our marriage because she sees being single as a way to pursue things that she thinks might make her happy. - She told me she wants to be able to date other people, but she doesn't want a relationship - sounds like one of the articles I think I read on this site - about people being addicted to the 'high' of the first stages of dating. She's looking for these quick fixes instead of accepting that there is a core issue that needs to be solved.

Still trying to hang in there and give her the time she needs - but this is hard. (Yeah, I know, anything worthwhile in life is hard)