awd --

Don't fall for this garbage! It's a trap, pure and simple, and clearly Fog-driven. "Private time"-- sure, in a pig's eye! "Evidence of your crowding"--right! Utter nonsense and you KNOW it! What you're trying to do is exactly what you should be doing to try to keep this relationship intact-- she's trying to do just the opposite. Some observations:

1) Don't move her computer.

2) "Dating other people" usually translates to one other person = the OM

3) The reason so many of her statements and responses sound like something you've read is because there's a "script" that WS's follow--it's amazing how similar these situations are in thought and deed.

4) Read WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses (found here in JFO and other forums on this site). It's all there; everything you need to think about and be aware of.

Sorry this is so difficult and so perplexing. Watching your world crumble around you is devastating. Consider counseling for yourself and hang in. You can't see around the corner...

Ammon

I got the SAA book, started reading it and have been trying to follow 'Plan A' and not start anything. The past week has been difficult in that aspect as she has started pulling even further away from me, she hardly talks to me anymore and has buried herself further into the computer and talking with her online friends.

Last night I had to go back into work for awhile, when I got home and walked past her at her computer I glanced at her screen and saw some comments on her screen from talking to a few different guys.
The first guy had sent to her something along the lines of 'how would we do it, and then look your husband in the eyes afterwards' to which she responded 'we aren't going to just do it, we are just friends and will see where things go'
a moment later she sends to him that she thinks they should take a trip together.
I questioned her about what she was talking about and was told 'nothing', 'it doesn't matter' then finally 'its none of your business' -sigh-

I then decided to login myself, and ask this guy directly what his intentions were with my wife (probably a mistake) - he played dumb at first, sending a message to her asking who I was. She didn't say a word to me, but soon logged of and headed to bed. I sent a second message to him, asking him not to lie to me and answer the question. He responded that I apparently had some 'serious control issues' and 'no wonder she hates you so much' - I told him he didn't know the full story and shouldn't judge the situation. The conversation went back and forth a little and he wound up telling me that he wouldn't pursue anything with her as long as she was married - and actually wished me luck -- I don't realy know how to take that, but figure it was his way of trying to shut me up - so I don't know how truthful it was.

I decided after that to try and talk to my wife again - saying I thought we needed to try and go back to counciling again - that we'd been burying our head in the sand since we stopped going. Needless to say she was not very receptive and was quite sarcastic in her tone of voice. She told me several times 'if there ever was a chance with us, its gone now - you've pushed me further away - right now all i feel for you is disgust and hate'
She then told me that I keep trying to blame this all on her 'depression issues' but that I am more screwed up than she and need to talk to a DR and go on medication. -shakes my head- Its like she's gone beyond focusing on just the negative things, and is now just making things up - to make it easier to hate me.

I then made what was probably another mistake. I read the chat-log of her time online last night. I feel guilty for doing so, since I invaded her privacy - but am at such a loss since she won't talk to me.

I found the following comments she made to another male friend:

"why ouch? tis truth - I do not trust or freely have faith in anyone"

"But.. not with my life or deep down, I probably don't trust you.. I dunno.. psychologist just says I have major trust issues"

"I know.. but I think that if I could trust completely, maybe I could find someone to spend my life with for always"

"I don't trust [him] - that's why I think the "love" died for him"

Another part of the conversation was this:

HER: "with him, I'v efelt like he never really has *known* me"
HIM: "I thought you considered him a best friend?"
HER: "Yeah... I thought so, but more and more I think that there are certain aspects of our relationship where he really lacked intelligence"
HIM: "well, nobody is perfect, but that doesn't mean you should settle"
HER: "No, but I think that overall, I did try harder to make him happy. Granted, I cheated him quite a few times, but I think that's because for years now, I haven't had the same feelings for him"
HER: "I just really wish that there was some major light that would turn on and say, 'ding ding' this is THE one"
HIM: "maybe you haven't met that person yet, or maybe you have and just don't realize it"
HER: "what makes me upset is that he thinks that the "love" can come back - I said, if that's the case, I should be able to rekindle feelings for *anyone* that I used to care about"
Their conversation drifted a bit at this point, but soon returned to the fact that they had been friends about 6 months ago, had a falling out and how both regretted it - she goes on to tell him how she hopes that they can 'work on their relationship and make it better'

-sigh- Sure, she's willing to work on a meaningless relationship with some guy on the computer, but not with me - that hurts...

I really feel as if things are completely an utterly hopeless. That nothing I can do or say will have any effect on her, I wish I knew what to do next. Should I try to back off even further with this 'Plan A' approach? Should I not question her at all and not try to get us back to counciling?

She told me that she considers herself seperated and single - that I am her husband 'legally only' and that I have no say over what she says or does. Yeah, I know she thinks this way, but its not 'reality'.

At this point I feel hopeless - that she is so far away and running full steam in the opposite direction.
Any advice or encouragement out there? Am I a complete idiot?

Ouch. I heard Harley on the radio the other day, and he said that people are never COMPLETELY in withdrawal - there are always little windows of opportunity where they are receptive. You may not even be aware of it when it happens. So, during Plan A, you really have to be consistent, because you never know when that window will open for a few moments. Gottman, another great author on marriage, relates several stories where reminiscing about good times in the past helped provide that window for someone. But really you can't force it.

The other thing I think you should look carefully is everything you can find about lovebusters on this site (the Q&A, Basic Concepts, and Articles section, not the message boards) The two major reasons women leave men, either virtually by withdrawal, or literally by divorce, is due to neglect (not fulfilling emotional needs) or due to abuse/control (lovebusters). Saying she does not trust you makes me think the lovebusters might be important in your case.

The other thing that REALLY helps with trust issues is the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA), so read up on that, too. Yes, it's radical, and yes it's hard to implement if the other person doesn't want to participate, but your situation calls for radical solutions, and easy is not an option for you right now, because leaving/divorcing will be MUCH harder than either of you imagine right now.

The only specific, practical suggestion I can offer is to invite her to do something with you (or maybe you and the kids, if doing something w/ you alone won't fly) that she REALLY likes to do, so that you can have some time together that is likely to be enjoyable to her where she has a chance to see the new you.

<small>[ December 20, 2002, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>