so confused about this. been trying to work on our marriage since birth of daughter changed our sex lives. he admitted to having fantasies and masturbating quite often to the memory of an old girlfreind that things did not work out with.
he says he goes over it in his mind and tries to make it right w/ her. but he realizes he can't. this has been going on for years. i can not help but to feel like i am second best to him and always will be. even if it is all in his head. he has built herup to be perfect and i will never measure up. i am having a horrible time getting past this. any advice?

Nelly --

Welcome to MB. I'm so sorry for this in your life. Dealing with demons is a terribly difficult place to be. How can you combat a fantasy? How do you slay the dragon when it's all an illusion, a fantasy? This is infidelity of a particularly insidious nature.

Your H is living in this fantasy world and preferring it to reality and responsibility--he needs to grow up. If he really has been "doing this for years," he also needs some heavy-duty counseling and fast. It's like watching a movie on the big screen and pretending that what you're seeing is real-life and never wanting to leave the theater--the movie never ends, just keeps playing over and over.

I'm certain that you have discussed this with H and I'm guessing that he thinks everything's just fine. You have to take a proactive posture here; let him know, calmly and rationally, just how upset you are about his ongoing behavior. Make sure that you know that he understands what you're conveying--how serious this is for you. Look how much you're affected by this behavior. Look how much your relationship is eroded by this "other woman."
This board is a very good place to come when you're having relationship problems--and this is a biggie. Post anytime you feel the urge to rant or vent or cry. We're here for you, Nelly. I'm sorry you've joined us but people tend not to come here when things are going well for them. Most of us are hurting and we help each other through our days.

Ammon

thank you for the support. it means a lot. i constantly wonder if i am overreacting here (he goes back and forth w/ admitting it is a real problem and that it is fine and normal and all guys do this)there are times when i feel he is very committed to our relationship and times when i feel he would rather check out, because it is hard work and he doe not knowif he is up for fullfilling my emotional needs. we have talked about this several times over the years but never at the length needed. he realizes a lot has to do w/ his lack of self esteem as a young man but yet he chooses to let me carry this because i think it somehow gives him the upperhand in OUR relationship......but i will not be able to take this forever....as i get older and grow as a person, and understand these things and myself better it gets harder to accept and i think thatis what he wants me to do.

Nelly --

You are NOT overreacting! Not one bit. H's behavior is not acceptable by any standards, not just yours. But even if it is only you who's upset, that's enough for him to need to do something about it. That's what a partnership is all about.

The fact that he sometimes can admit that it's a real problem shows his awareness of this issue-- now, what's he going to do about it? BTW, it is not "fine and normal" and all guys do not fantasize about their old girl friends.

You're right: relationships ARE hard work. What does he mean by "he does not know if he is up for fullfilling my emotional needs." Did he say that? Does he want to and can't? Doesn't he want to? Remember, this is all a matter of choice. He needs to choose you and your relationship and "forsake all others." Nothing less is acceptable.

Re his lack of self-esteem: we all bring a lot of baggage into a relationship, all of us, and that baggage is always going to be waiting in the wings for its cue to come on stage. But we can recognize that and CHOOSE to rise above it. He needs again to make that choice.

You're also correct: this situation needs to be addressed and remedied now, as it will escalate and erode your relationship. He may want you to accept his behavior and choices, but you don't have to, and you're not going to. Be strong with this. We're always here to lend an ear and a thought. Hang in there, Nelly...

Ammon

i appreciate your logic. it helps. i agree we all have issues, i want to explore them so our relationship can blossom but i feel he wants them to hide his feelings. not all the time, but he is having a very difficult time with ...something...i don't even know if he knows what it is. i do not think he is very honest w/ himself. and he continues to lie to me about other "independant behavior" to avoid conflict. it is not even anything serious...but it is because he continues to lie about it, and then gets defensive...because he says he has nothing to hide and he feels like i am putting him on trial. it is a viscious circle. he is afraid of something...failure maybe. he travels alot w/ business, i want to trust him but he does not show me that he values or wants to earn trust...just that he wants to avoid conflict. how to i get through to him??

Nelly --

"How do I get through to him?" -- Serial Conflict- Avoiders spend their lives behind their shields just so you won't be able to get through to them. You yourself used the term: "he continues to lie to me about other 'independant behavior' to avoid conflict." You can only make your needs known and your perspectives clear to him--but the trick is to be certain that he understands what you're saying. You can't guess or assume that he "gets it;" you have to know in your heart that he does.

You can't control what he decides to do with that information. My guess is that he knows already what you need from him and that he's simply unwilling to meet those needs. It's possible that he can't (too addicted to fantasy for now) but much more likely that he won't. In other words, he's choosing to ignore a tremendously major and detrimental issue--a structural flaw--in your relationship. This may not be the case (after all, I am an outsider) but he simply cannot be unaware of how you and your marriage is affected by his on-going immature behavior.

BTW, I'm puzzled by these "independant behaviors"-- what do you mean by this?

It's immensely healthy that you want to explore the issues to strengthen your relationship, and you can do that with or without him since he is being uncooperative with that. Whatever his "difficult time" is in that regard, he certainly seems to be having a big problem being honest even with himself. You're ready and willing to deal with this, especially since you can see it escalating over time and perhaps overwhelming everything, but he's not = impasse. Yours is the right and sane approach; his is the opposite.

Can you get some counseling? It would help a lot for you to have some professional guidance and direction. Would be great for H too but that's not likely at this point even though he sometimes can admit to having a problem. What would Steve Harley say about this?

For what it's worth, you are absolutely 100% right about this situation and he's being a fool. You can't fix this by yourself, however, it's gonna take the two of you, and for now, he's not cooperating. So I still say hang in, make your needs known, and don't accept second place to a fantasy. You deserve better; you deserve first place!

Ammon

nelly. yes advice. Tell him your available and he doesn't need to take care of his own needs. And also to make love with eyes open! I've read it's a real turn on, more intimate, but also it makes certain they know who they're with! I've told mine after the A that I felt or worried he might be fantasizing about the OW. And I will not be second best! I don't have to be as I'm far ahead of her. Nor do I want to go wanting while he's doing his thing. He's doing the Masturbating so he can use his fantasy. And that should stop. because that is being unfaithful as much as if he had her in his own bed and was with her! Infidelity is not just an act of sex, it can be infidilety in many ways. Flirting, fantasizing, thinking on others, ogling and undressing others in mind, imagination. All being unfaithful!
I'm wrong I suppose because I have a bad temper, but if I knew for certain mine was doing this to me, I'd tell him I can't get it on with you anymore without thinking of an old love. Sorry babe, but it's better with him in my imagination and let him see how it feels! GRRRRRRRRRRR LouLou