Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:50:25 -0800 (PST)

Subject: sorry...



John,
Hi John,
Really sorry about this morning and not being
there!! I had forgotten all about it. I just
remembered when i saw the email that you sent to me a
few days back. Again I'm extremely sorry!!

It would'nt have been a good time, anyway...I started
my period last night.

Again I'm sooooooooo sorry!!

Cindy

p.s.
Are you on Yahoo! Messenger a lot?

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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:29:47 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re:



wrote:
>
>
>
>
> are you interested in another one?
>
> would like the chance to chat with you some.. might
> be nice to get to know
> you.. might try to work out something..
> at least a friendship of sorts.. i mean , that's if
> you are game..
>
> Don't worry about the affairs.. you are right. they
> are tempting when you
> aren't getting the affection and what not
> at home.. I guess you are right, it's not something
> to be proud of.. but
> things happen..
>
> You at work? I wish I was home... Not in a great
> mood today.. kinda
> bluesy..but sure better than I was this AM,
> but that's because it's getting closer and closer to
> quitting time.
> .yeah!!!
>
> Jeff
>
> ps I think Cindy is a very nice name. I've always
> liked it.. how old are
> you? I think I saw your profile, that you are
> 36 or so? Do you think you will get your marriage to
> 21+ years? It's nice
> to have them last a long while I guess
> IF there's something THERE.. otherwise you feel as
> though you are wasting
> the years.. I also noticed you play
> flute in church,, what kind of church do you go to?
>
-----
Jeff,
I really don't know if I can get the marriage to
last 21+ yrs. It depends on the other person also!
I love my hubby, I just don't like him that much
anymore. Do you think that's wrong? I want to leave
him or have him leave, but I feel bad everytime I
think of it, and lately its been a lot!!!

There are some things that I would like and he will
not fulfill them, at all!!

No, I am not interested in anyone, other than my
husband--sorta. I wouldn't mind just being friends--
right now. Who knows...miracles do happen!!!

I play the flute at First Southern Baptist Church, in
Colorado Springs,CO.

Talk to you more later.

Cindy

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:03:20 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re:
;


>
>
>
>
> I guess that's the way it is for a lot of folks..
>
> Mind if I ask you if you have ever had an affair? Is
> that part of what you
> might be looking for..?
> Sorry if I seem a bit curious..
>
> I was married 21 years.. kinda hard to imagine that
> going down the
> drain..but it did... sadder
> that... it didn't really have to happen...
>
> I think sometimes we have to take the bad with the
> good ... sometimes the
> bad might not be
> all that.. have to weigh things in the balance I
> guess... I know there are
> things I wish I had
> done different.. anyways.. I think there are some
> bads that can't be really
> glossed over...
>
> What kind of things do you like to do? How is your
> day going? mine is
> slowww as all get out..
>
> Jeff
> ---------
yes I have had several affairs, im not proud of it at
all, but if ur spouse wont do it, and u dont want to
do it urself...then what're u gonna do...besides drive
urself crazy.

I thot, and i wanted my marriage to last as long as
urs did if not longer.

my day is pretty slow also.

Cindy

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:04:54 -0800 (PST)
This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re:



:
>
>
>
>
> I live in Aurora...
>
> I am thinkin' you live in the springs, which is a
> distance.. not that that
> would make any difference to me.. don't
> know just what you would like or want to do.. meet
> for lunch somewhere or
> stuff like that..?
>
> I am gonna describe myself. 5 8 170 lbs brn hair and
> hazel eyes...
>
> I am at work.. not able to get online at work, but
> can email.. I've tried
> IM's but didn't get any response at all..
>
> At work now and bored to death.. Long day already
> and will continue to be
> so I guess.. Ugh.. unless something
> happens.. exciting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
>
> So what is wrong at home? I know there seems a lot
> of that going on.. I am
> divorced so I am out of that loop.
> Wonder sometimes what is wrong with people these
> days. ha..
>
> Jeff
>
------------
Mayb people expect certain things from others and when
the other person doesnt want to live up to it or at
least try to live up to it, then things go downhill I
guess. Thats the way it is for me anyway.

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Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:37:01 -0800 (PST)

Subject: Re: continued directions...



:
> ; wrote:
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > --- <> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- <> wrote:
> > > > > -Hi Cindy
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way I am Ed, but you can call me John
> > > most
> > > > > people do it is my middle name, thanks for
> the
> > > > > directions I should have no problem with
> them,
> > I
> > > > > will
> > > > > be there, at 11am Saturday maybe alittle
> > > earlier,
> > > > > hope
> > > > > you will be hot and ready for action, I know
> I
> > > am,
> > > > > should I bring a condom or will it not be
> > needed
> > > > > see ya
> > > > > write me if you want
> > > > > John
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ; wrote:
> > > > > > stop sign, at the stop
> sign
> > > turn
> > > > > > left,
> > > > > > im the fifth trailer space on the
> > left
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cindy
> > > > > >---------
> > > > John,
> > > > i guess u should bring a condom, I dont like
> > them
> > > > having to b used, but until i get rid of my
> > > husband,
> > > > i
> > > > shouldnt play russian roulet...lol.
> > > > im glad u got the rest of the directions,
> hope
> > > > theyre not too gifficult to understand. send
> me
> > > an
> > > > email if u have any questions.
> > > >
> > > > Cindy
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Cindy
> > >
> > > One question, where will your husband be on
> > saturday
> > >
> > > John
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >hey john,
> > he'll b at the libraries from 10 to about 4,
> mayb
> > a
> > little after
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > p.s.
> > cant wait to see you!!
>
>
> Hi Cindy
>
> cant wait to see you, by the way do you have a photo
> our just discribe yourself for me please
> I am courious what you look like
> John
> > > >
john,
im 5'10,long dark hair,205,white,chubby face,hazel
eyes,slight limp. anything else?
> > > > > >

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Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:11:55 -0800 (PST)
This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: continued directions...



; wrote:> --- gt; wrote:> > > > <> wrote:> > > -Hi Cindy> > > > > > By the way I am Ed, but you can call me John> most> > > people do it is my middle name, thanks for the> > > directions I should have no problem with them, I> > > will> > > be there, at 11am Saturday maybe alittle> earlier,> > > hope> > > you will be hot and ready for action, I know I> am,> > > should I bring a condom or will it not be needed> > > see ya> > > write me if you want> > > John> > > > > > > > > -- <> wrote:> > > > > Cindy> > > >---------> > John,> > i guess u should bring a condom, I dont like them> > having to b used, but until i get rid of my> husband,> > i> > shouldnt play russian roulet...lol.> > im glad u got the rest of the directions, hope> > theyre not too gifficult to understand. send me> an> > email if u have any questions.> > > > Cindy> >> > Hi Cindy> > One question, where will your husband be on saturday> > John> > > > > > > > > >hey john, he'll b at the libraries from 10 to about 4, mayb alittle after Cindy p.s. cant wait to see you!! This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message - Mark as Unread ]

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:17:02 -0800 (PST)
; | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re:



; wrote:> > > > > saw you in a chat room. wonder what you are looking> for?> -------------something better than what i have right now This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message - Mark as Unread ]

Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 09:13:27 -0800 (PST)
| This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: continued directions...


wrote:> -Hi Cindy> > By the way I am Ed, but you can call me John most> people do it is my middle name, thanks for the> directions I should have no problem with them, I> will> be there, at 11am Saturday maybe alittle earlier,> hope> you will be hot and ready for action, I know I am,> should I bring a condom or will it not be needed> see ya> write me if you want> John> > > -- <> wrote:> > > > > > Cindy> >--------- John,i guess u should bring a condom, I dont like themhaving to b used, but until i get rid of my husband, ishouldnt play russian roulet...lol. im glad u got the rest of the directions, hopetheyre not too gifficult to understand. send me anemail if u have any questions.Cindy This message is not flagged. [ Flag Message - Mark as Unread ]

Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 11:39:21 -0800 (PST)
| This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: continued directions...



> wrote:> ><; wrote:> > > > > &gt<gt; > > > -Hi Cindy> > > > > > > > By the way I am Ed, but you can call me John> > most> > > > people do it is my middle name, thanks for the> > > > directions I should have no problem with them,> I> > > > will> > > > be there, at 11am Saturday maybe alittle> > earlier,> > > > hope> > > > you will be hot and ready for action, I know I> > am,> > > > should I bring a condom or will it not be> needed> > > > see ya> > > > write me if you want> > > > John> > > > > > > > > > > > -- <gt; wrote:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cindy> > > > >---------> > > John,> > > i guess u should bring a condom, I dont like> them> > > having to b used, but until i get rid of my> > husband,> > > i> > > shouldnt play russian roulet...lol.> > > im glad u got the rest of the directions, hope> > > theyre not too gifficult to understand. send me> > an> > > email if u have any questions.> > > > > > Cindy> > >> > > > Hi Cindy> > > > One question, where will your husband be on> saturday> > > > John> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >hey john,> he'll b at the libraries from 10 to about 4, mayb> a> little after> > Cindy> > p.s.> cant wait to see you!!Hi Cindycant wait to see you, by the way do you have a photoour just discribe yourself for me pleaseI am courious what you look likeJohn

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Programmed ]</small>

Hi
Welcome to MB

Uhhhhh but you realize that you just posted email address's with people's real names and such. You may want to delete that and just give us the jist of the story. I see some email addy's in there that belong to folks with their work email address's

Sorry you just found all this out. Be glad to help but please edit this. Just a word of advice from someone that cares. If a Moderator see's this, Im certain they will say the same thing.

I want to help you. Clearly you are probably devestated but please edit this email and tell us a bit about yourself and what is going on.

Zoey

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Zoey ]</small>

Also this is what a person from the crosswalks forum emailed her and how she responded::

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; | This is Spam | Add to Address Book
Subject: Re: From Crosswalk Forums



wrote:
> The first thing that you have to realize is, though
> he may forgive you,
> he will not be able to 'forget' it for a long while.
> My father carried
> on an affair and, though my mother forgave him, the
> trust was not
> there.. and the hurt that she expressed made him
> feel that she did not
> love him.
>
> The word says that we are to forgive, but it also
> says that perfect love
> casts out fear. You fear him leaving, he fears your
> infidelity. It also
> says that love protects, you did not protect his
> heart and your marriage
> by what you've done, so he is feeling a lack of love
> and is
> understandably defensive and protective of himself.
>
> I agree with JB, get counseling. If he won't go, you
> go alone. I don't
> want to be harsh, but, Biblically, he has the right
> to leave you now.
> You have to be understanding of that. On the other
> hand, God hates
> divorce. And he has to come to that understanding.
> You cannot change his
> mind, only God can. For that reason, please look
> into getting the book
> "Power of a Praying Wife". Pray for him diligently
> and pray for him in
> God's Word.
>
>
>
>
Nicole,
Thanx for your input! I've got the book "Power of a
Praying Wife"
I understand that he has the right to leave me, then
why doesn't he? I pray for our marriage almost every
night, but it doesn't seem like it's doing any good
because I think that I'm the only one (between the two
of us) that want's it too improve.

Cindy


----------------------------------
Now seriously, how does she want it to improve?

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Programmed ]</small>

P,
PLEASE DELETE these personal email address' and names. This can get you in trouble. I know you are distraught and we can help you here but please think about what you are posting here and who may be reading it.

This is very sad. Its obvious your wife is torn between her marriage and in a fog of affairs.

Can you please tell us about yourself, your wife and anything so we know how to help you

Zoey

PS: Can someone else jump in here please....

Are first names ok? Because I deleted the email and full names. Plus my wife uses a partially fake name anyway.

Yes Programmed that is better.

You never want to publish someone's real email address's here unless you have their permission or something. I just didn't want you to get in trouble for anything.

Please tell us how long you have been married? When did this all come about? Any kids? How long has there been problems? Have you confronted her with this info yet?

Trying to help you okay.
Zoey

Thank you. I've know she has cheated in the past but she assured me nothing untoward was going on currently. I browsed through her email and the above is what I found. I was frustrated and just cut and paste it right in. Thanks for giving me a heads up when things are pretty crazy right now.

Its no problem

I'd like to help as well as others Im sure but please give us a little history.

Have you gone to her with what you found?

Zoey

A few suggestions from your moderator:

Keep actual names addresses/email address off the boards.

Until you understand the principles of MB, limit posting items that may in the future end up your efforts of building/rebuilding your marriage.

Venting is always allowed, but don't let your anger overtake your reasoning.

OneGoing.

I just found it.. I plan on confronting her with it tonight when I feel ready to do so. She has cheated multiple times while I have not as of yet but have seriously considered doing so even though I know and understand it is wrong. I have been thinking more and more of leaving lately and have considered leaving in times past. I have 5 domestic violence cases on my record here locally. Before that I have only had traffic infractions. One time I did hit her and acquired a 3rd degree assault charge. I have tried to avoid her at times but she has sought me out when I am not ready making things worse. We have gone through counseling and that is when the domestic violence escalated. Counseling has only been secular and has made the marriage infinitely worse because of unreal expectations. Cindy wants a child but I say absolutely not. Not only because of her cheating but because of my past. My mom married someone who commited suicide when I was about 2 years of age. She later married someone that was still married to someone else, and he was very verbally and physically abusive. I have put it in my mind that I will have a child only if I feel I am ready and will not be pressured into it. People say that if you wait until you are ready then you will never have a child but I disagree. Better had I not been born than go through what I've been through. Some things too unspeakable to put in here. We had a child but he was taken at 8 days of age by DSS and died in their custody at about 4 and a half months of age they say due to SIDS, but I don't entirely believe them. I do not believe them because in the coroner's report they put fictitious information into it and also because of my intuition. I want to have kids but not in this environment and Cindy does not seem to understand or grasp this fact even though I have told her many many times as to why. We have been married for over 10 years but it was only until about the 8th year that she admitted marrying me only for the military. I feel that she married the military and not me. She has cheated even when I was in the military and yes the domestic violence occurred while I was in and now I am nondeployable as result and have been discharged(honorably). I have been unemployed mostly since 1995. Partly because my back is messed up pretty bad and also because if I landed a job I would probably lose it anyway as I have each time I went to jail. Even now I have jail hanging over my head. I have plans to run my own business and recently have moved my disability check to an account that Cindy is not privy to because she forges my signature and makes every account she can access go negative. Now soon, God willing, I will get this project off the ground. I have been doing market research on it for about the past 2 months. I want to leave her because she always says she has changed and she always lies. Not only with the infidelity issue but the fiscal one as well. Hope I did not leave too much out of this.

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Programmed ]</small>

Programmed.

Glad you erased all those names and address.

It sounds like you have alot going on. You mentioned you have 5 domestic violence cases against you. May I suggest that you do not confront her alone. Just going on what you tell me here and that fact that you are prone to get highly agitated ( to but it nicely) seems that it would make more sense to get someone to help you.

Perhaps a Counselor, A Minister, A friend, someone that can help you deal with this. There is clearly a whole bunch of very serious issues going on here and you need to get some help. There seems to be many things you are taking from your past and blaming yourself for but you can get help with that. There are many resources. If you know of none, please go to your local emergency room and tell them you need help. They can put you in touch with someone that can help you.

Please don't do anything drastic or that you will regret. With the proper help, you can get your life back in line.

I know you said counseling failed previously but sometimes you need to see a few counselors before finding the right one.

If you are not ready to have a child, by all means, don't do it. I agree with you however you and your wife need help and need it fast. This seems to be to be a very bad situation which is just about to boil over.

Things said in anger can escalate and get out of control before you know it. You have been down that road before. Don't take that route again. I urge you to get help from someone with this in your local area. Of course come here to get help also.

Can you please take yourself to an ER to get some help. You sound very distraught and with good cause due to what you found on your wife's email but none of this is worth any more violent acts. The violonce has to end.

Please go to the ER for call for help okay. Because you have clearly been involved in domestic abuse, if anything call their national hotline and tell them you need someone to talk to.

1-800-799-7233

They help victims of abuse but also you can tell them you are prone to violence and need help. They can put you in touch with a counselor in your area.

There are some serious issues you speak about here and hopefully you can get the help you need. At least if anything call another counselor in your area. Please do not confront your wife in anger. Please wait till you can calm down. Call a friend, family member, or someone that can help you in person with this.

Keep us posted
.

<small>[ December 17, 2002, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: Zoey ]</small>

You need to understand that your inability to control your anger is destroying her love for you, and driving her into other people's arms. That is not to say there are not many things she has done that would make almost anyone angry. But, you can learn to deal with your anger in a way that does not destroy others or yourself. That is job #1. Beyond that:

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair”. It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

I had just found out and I told her last night. The only way I can found out some things is to sneak and do my own investigating. All those people who hire PIs without their spouse's knowledge should also fall under the same category. It goes to an issue of trust. I obviously don't trust her. I do a lot better now because I am largely calloused and in some emotional way we are already separated, which makes this so much easier. She is meeting someone at Home Depot from Salida this morning. I know because she told me last night. When I confronted her about the email she said, "Oh my gosh." In a valley girl kind of way. She denied doing anything untoward.

I live on about 2400 dollars per year currently. So buying anything is not really an option. Pretty soon I plan on being homeless and leaving the state of Colorado. Any extra stuff that is not required for living will probably go by the wayside as a result.

She had an affair early in the marriage (within the first couple of months) and I did not show any anger before that because I had no reason to show any. I have prayed for our marriage and I have read the word of God to Cindy but in large part it gets ignored if it is anything coming from me.

What about using the public library? They may have a copy. Anything by Harley, Michele Weiner-Davis, or Gottman is good.