I just found out that my husband of 25 years has had 8 affairs during our marriage. 6 with people for some reason he introduced me to, one with our next door neighbor and my friend and the most recent which may or may not still be going on. The most recent one occured while he was living and working in another state and only coming home to see me and the kids on weekends. He told me after he accepted the job that he wanted to use it as a trial separation. We stopped having intercourse but still slept in the same bed. This went on for 2 years. He recently enrolled in a life seminar to figure out why he is as he is. He said he told me all this because he couldn't live a genuine life if he didn't. He has been laid off from his job and now he is home again and wants to try to work this out so we can stay together for our 3 children, who, by the way, are feeling strange around their father also. I think I can actually get past most of what happened in the past but he refuses to promise not to ever talk to this most recent woman again. He has said he was never sure he really loved me and that he found true happiness with her. But then he turns around and says he is committed to making our relationship work. I feel that for our relationship to become recommitted and to work he has to never see or talk to her again. I am trying not to push this point right now but I feel that there is a rage builing within myself. I keep it together for the kids who I would lay down and die for. Sometimes I feel if there was plenty of money (there isn't) I would tell him to hit the road, take the kids and never see him again. But strangly enough, deep down I know I do love him. I need to find a way to deal with this within myself. After 25 years I need to at least give it a chance. Any suggestions, thoughts or just a plain common sense knock on the head. By the way I found this all out 6 days ago.

<small>[ January 05, 2003, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: used and abused ]</small>

Are you serious?! If your husband doesn't want to stop communication with this other woman he really isn't committed to you and your kids. I'm not a brain doctor and I'm having marital problems of my own, but there would be no way in hell I would subject myself to someone who can't give you what you want. If he can not say to you there will be no more communication, then as hard as it would be to say good by I would. Why put yourself through that. I am not trying to offend you in any way, I'm sorry if I did. I'll keep you in my thoughts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Used --

You are welcome here with us at MB. You've made your way to a very good place here and we'll help you all we can.

I'm very sorry for this pain in your life. With D-Day only six days ago, you are still very wounded and immensely hurting, raw and reeling. Please post to us anytime you're feeling especially down. We'll sit with you whenever you need us.

First things first: you have to insure your physical health and have as much emotional stability as possible. Your children need that from both you and H. Yes, it's to be expected that they are feeling strange around him, but that's all the more reason to give them extra reassurances and hugs. If they're old enough, make certain that they know that none of this is their fault; these are grown-up issues and they didn't cause any of them. Your recovery from these wounds takes its toll almost every minute of the day (and night) and you have to protect yourself.

Now, it's encouraging that H wants to work things out for you and your family. What's not so good is his refusal to cut contact with the OW. You are so right: "he has to never see or talk to her again." It's the only way for him and the only way you can begin to heal. Please read the "Plan A" material on this site. It's a good way for you to go at this point. In fact, read all of the articles here--lots of great and helpful info.

This is going to be a long road and a bumpy one. His history with eight A's doesn't speak well for things. You're going to have to want this to work almost more than anything else; it's going to take that much dedication from you. But the bigger piece has to come from him. He's going to have to want to do this and do it right. No more chances. Fish or cut bait. If you're willing and he's willing, it's doable. But you're going to need help, time, and much patience.

Get into counseling, both together and individually. Use the Harleys right here or get someone local who's good and recommended. You need professional guidance here. If he won't go that far with you, I don't see how you two are going to make it.

Hang in there and please post as often as you need to. We're here for you...

Ammon

<small>[ January 05, 2003, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: Ammon ]</small>

Thanks for the words of encouragement. It's great to finally have someone to talk to about this. The one thing I think was misunderstood is that our kids don't know what has happened. They just seem to feel the tension and then there's the fact that their dad hasn't really lived here for 2 years. I am not planning on telling them any of this. If I don't understand it how can they. Plus I don't want them to hate their father no matter what kind of jerk he is. I've been reading plan a and hope I can do it without throwing another cup of coffee in his face or throwing up which is how I feel most of the time. I have lost 3 pound in 6 days and since I can stand to lose, at least there's one perk in all this. Seriously, thank you for listening and giving advice. I'm too embarassed to tell my sister or any of my friends so this is a big load off my head and heart.

Used --

We're here so talk to us anytime, even if you just need to vent or rage or cry. There's always somebody on this board to listen.

Even if you don't understand all that's going on with your H, your children (as you've said) have to feel the tension and need reassurance and as much stability as you and H can give them. The "innocents" are puzzled and hurting too and none of this is their fault, so they suffer along with everyone else. Extra hugs, please. How old are they? You don't have to go into detail but it certainly would help them to know that you know some of what they're feeling. I'm glad to hear you say that you don't want them to hate their father; a healthy and wise consideration for you.

Good that you've been reading the Plan A material. Nobody is saying that you have to do it perfectly or that there won't be setbacks. In fact, usually there are problems keeping it on track for every couple. Having a goal and having a plan to reach it are what you're after, not perfection.

I dropped almost 40 pounds in about 3 months so you're on the same path. Weight loss is a very common by-product of this process of survival for the BS's.

Do not be embarrassed to seek out advice and counsel from your sister and friends. What's happening is no reflection on you. You've haven't done it; it's being done to you. Would you be embarrassed to call your sister if you'd been in an accident and were in the hospital? This, my friend, is a severe emotional and physical injury of the same magnitude; maybe even worse! You need to talk with people who are close to you and who have significance in your life. They want to know. Wouldn't you want your sister to share a life-altering crisis with you? You'd be hurt if she hadn't told you. So.....???

Surrounding yourself with relatives and friends who will support and validate you is immensely important for you right now. You don't need to go through this all by yourself. We're here for you but you need that face-to-face and let's-have-a- cup-of-coffee contact too.

Remember also that this isn't about you, it's about your H's weak and poor choices. You end up scrambling to pick up the pieces. Please post again soon and let us know how you're doing. We do care...

Ammon

Ammon,

Thanks for the understanding that you have for what I am feeling right now. In my mind I know that this is not what I have done but was done to me but my heart says I should have done something different. That somewhere in all this I could have changed things. I am right now resolved in my head and heart to give this everything I have but I worry that I am going to blow it all by getting so angry that I throw him out. My kids are 16, 15 & 15 (yes, twins) I have spent the last 16 years trying to give them the best and most secure life possible so I have to really try to get it together and work on my M. I know you are right about talking to my sister and friends but the ones I am close to are so far away. We relocated a few years ago for my H job and the new people I've met are not people I know well enough to confide this in so any soul searching will be on the phone or online. Sometimes I just want to get in the car and drive away. How normal is it to be going along and just in the middle of cooking dinner to feel as if you go hit in the chest with a bat and have everything come rushing back and make you so sick you have to sit down just to breath? I know I'm ranting but these things seem to wash over me in waves. The only thing I hope is that by reading and replying to others I can figure this out for myself. Thanks for caring.

Below the dashes is my standard reply to new MB members in your situation, but I'd like to add a few things for you. Plan A is to separate the spouse from the lover. Most women should not do Plan A for more than about three weeks. Plan A goes with Plan B. There is an EXCELLENT descriptions of the two plans and how they work together by a poster who is also a marriage counselor at Plan A post . It's the post by "Cerri" on January 03, 2003, at 11:39 AM. Way too many posters here will tell you that "Plan A is about working on yourself". There is some truth in that statement, but that is not its purpose. Your instinct that he needs to cut contact w/ the OW is correct, as you will see if you read the information in the "Basic Concepts" section and the Q&A columns here at this site check out the How to Survive Infidelity posts in the Q&A area.
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1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair”. It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

<small>[ January 06, 2003, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Hi,

Just wanted to add my welcome to MB. I cannot add to anything that you have been told.

Take care

Used --

How are you doing? Still hanging in there, I hope. Just checking in with you to make sure.

With a 25-year history and three children (including twins!), you've got a significant investment in this relationship and I commend you for wanting to give it the best shot possible. Not everyone would have the strength, courage, and patience to give this another chance.

You asked, "How normal is it to be going along and just in the middle of cooking dinner to feel as if you go hit in the chest with a bat and have everything come rushing back and make you so sick you have to sit down just to breath?" -- Trust me, it's a very common and normal symptom. There's absolutely nothing wrong or off-base with your reactions and feelings. You are exactly where you need to be. You've sustained an incredibly potent injury to your system; how else could you be expected to react? If you'd been hit by a truck (and it probably feels like it), would you ask if it's OK for you to have pain? Diagnosis: You are normal!

Waves of agony are equally common. We all have good times and horrible times throughout the day. We'll feel and be fine for a bit, then something (or nothing) triggers that wave, and we're plunged before we know it down into the pit again.

But you're doing a wonderful job of holding things together for you and your children. I can tell by your statement: "The only thing I hope is that by reading and replying to others I can figure this out for myself." = an excellent approach to recovery and enlightenment. Exactly what many of us do here every day. But remember, you don't have to do it completely by yourself; that's what we're here for. Hang in, Used, you CAN do this...

Ammon

Ammon,

Thanks for touching base, it really helps. I'm new to message boards so I posted today under a new thread. The short of it was, last night and this morning I was going crazy and this afternoon we began the process of starting a new business together. I hope I know what I'm doing. What the heck this is such a crazy merry-go-round that I figure I'll be dizzy for a while anyway. That and the fact that we have always had a great business relationship so maybe it will help.

I am just thankful that today was a good day and I hope and pray tomorrow is another one. I'll keep you posted.

used

John,

Thanks for all the great info. I have done many of the things you suggested. I loves WATS guide. It really made lots of sense. I agree that plan a is a short term way of life. My H has not had contact (I am as sure of this as I can be, but...) I am chosing at this point to believe him. He said if he did he would tell me. We have discussed writing a NC letter together, we'll see. Trying to do my normal daily activities, so it's Wednesday and tons of laundry await me. Thanks again for all the help.

I need some help. The last few days have been pretty good and we seem to be connecting in lots of ways and talking about the future. That's all great but last night in bed my husband rolled over and put his arms around me and was snuggling and it was all I could do not to jump out of my skin. I kept it together, going with plan a and hugged and snuggled back, but after some of the things he has told me in the last week and a half I just had a sick feeling in my stomach. I admit to being happy that he seems to be trying but what goes thru my head is not pretty. Any thoughts on getting past this wall I seem to be erecting? I want to remain open and loving and caring but I also feel a need to protect myself.

used

I think you need to be honest with him about what is going on inside your head. You need him to be honest, too, so there is a delicate balance between telling him what you are thinking and feeling, and not convincing him its better not to tell you anythng else. Say things like "This made me feel..., and I am haveing a hard time..., but I am really glad you were honest w/ me." I can tell you that many BS's have reported that listnenig to really awful things and not running away or raging has had a big positive effect on their WS's. If you can focus on the positive aspect of the fact that he is being honest, that may help. Don't hide tears, though. It is helpful, IMO, if he sees your pain, as long as you do not beat him with it.