I'm new to the forum and don't have a handle on all the abberviation, so bear with my situation. My wife had an EA which began about 1 year ago and lasted until March 16 when I found out. I was very thorough with finding out info and caught her in many lies. I probably overdid the control issues, but that is hindsight. I found out she had messages on her voicemail at work, she gave me access to her voicemail initially, but changed her password without telling me. This was the only avenue she could keep in contact with him without me finding out. There was a risk to her job by giving me access to her voicemail due to confidentiality. I continue to struggle with this, even though she says she has not spoken with him since March 16. Any suggestions?

Second issue:
My wife says this was a non-sexual affair and I confronted the other party and he concurred. My problem lies with the night I found out. I went to where they were the night before and questioned some people that were there without letting them know who I was and they said they thought they were a couple as they were being very physically affectionate. I also found out that they disappeared into the bathroom together for about 10 minutes. I confronted my wife on this issue and she said nothing more happened than just kissing. My response was if nothing more happened then why would you have to go to the bathroom to do what you were doing in public anyway? How do I get over this?

We are trying to work things out and things seem to be going well, but these two issues are really holding me back from progressing much further. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ivangsd --

You are welcome here at MB. I'm sorry for this pain and confusion in your life.

Issue #1: I'm not sure what you're asking here. What exactly are you struggling with? That you had access to her Voicemail? That you had access but don't any longer (password change)? That her job wouldn't have approved of your access? Help me here...

Issue #2: Even though your W and OM maintain that this was a "non-sexual affair," I don't see any difference in significance between being "physically affectionate" in public or in a bathroom -- cheating is cheating. The bathroom just makes it more private, but the intent was still there.

You "get over this" by getting a recommitment to you and your marriage from your wife, giving yourself and your relationship time to heal and recover, getting into counseling, reading everything you can on this site, and wanting to do this reconciliation more than you've ever wanted to do anything in your life; it'll take that much energy and patience. She has to want her marriage and she has to provide any reassurances you need so that your trust in her can be restored.

If she wants this and you want this, it's doable. Without both of you committed and involved, it's not = bottom line. I wish you well. Post again and keep us updated.

Ammon

Thanks for the reply Ammon,

I guess I really don't know what I was asking either. It is just an issue that continues to haunt me that she went back to trying to hide things from me. It is now just another obstacle of trust to overcome. It would not have bothered me as much if she would have come to me and said that she could no longer allow me access because it may jepordize her job, but she did it without telling me anything and letting me find out for myself. So I question what is she hiding. I was a person who gave unconditional trust and now that that is broken I don't know if I'll be able to get it back.

Trust issues can be dealt with through the Policy of Joint Agreement. Look it up in the "Basic Concepts" section of this site.

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair”. It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Ivangsd --

"It is now just another obstacle of trust to overcome." -- Yes, and nothing short of her total willingness to help with that is acceptable. Since you know that her Voicemail was her avenue of contact with OM and now you can't access it to check, you can't be expected to even begin to restore that broken trust. Too much baggage connected to that inability to access.

An old adage: People who have nothing to hide don't need to hide anything. It's not up to you to prove your loyalty and trust, it's up to her to do that for you. It's her responsibility now, not yours. She's broken the vows, now she has to want to put this relationship back on track.

What does she say? Does she want to recommit? Does she know how very much she's hurt you? Has she asked for your forgiveness? Where is she now in all of this? All vital questions for you and for her and even more so for your marriage.

What would she say if you asked for her new password? Hiding behind a potential job issue does not do it; we're talking basic survival here. The fact that she changed it without telling you could be signifying. I'd ask her for it and see what happens. Tell her why you want it and don't accept an "but I'll get fired" excuse.

"I was a person who gave unconditional trust and now that that is broken I don't know if I'll be able to get it back." -- Unconditional trust propels, cements, underscores a healthy marriage; when it's violently broken, only time and great patience will reveal its ability to recover. You have a good attitude and you're right to question at this point; very healthy and necessary. Much of this depends upon her from now on. You want this very much; now does she?

Hang in there. We're here for you...

Ammon

Thanks again for the responses, it is nice to able to hear from others who have experienced some of the same things and share the feelings I've had. I question myself if these are normal feelings, am I being to controlling, what have others done and what results they have seen.

I didn't push the issue of the voicemail until recently and see still denied me access. I do understand her concern, but if the roles were reversed I believe I would do whatever I needed to do. She still denies she had has any contact with the OM and said if she wanted to continue contacting him she would have been doing so and she would have just told him not to leave any messages. She says she is committed to saving our marriage and has not given me any reason to doubt her in the last few months. Is it OK to challenge her committment to our marriage? By this I mean finding out what lengths she will go to save our marriage?

Ivangsd...I just wanted to say that the advice you've received has been right on target.

Also, your W is correct. While I too wanted passwords, etc...and I was lucky enough to receive them....it really doesn't stop an affair or contact if the WS doesn't want to stop. Yeah, it might (I say might) make it a tad bit harder, but if the WS is determined...then they open up new email accounts which you don't know about, they get calling cards, new cell phones...whatever.

So even when I got all the passwords...I wasn't any better off then you were. Yes, they gave me a little slice of security...but even back then...I knew it was a false sense of security...but I needed that false sense...so I do understand your need in this area and that it's not being met. It's just a tiny baby step towards reclaiming trust.

Good Luck!

It does not sound like she was being honest with you and something sounds very fishy. You stated that other people saw your wife and the OM being very affectionate (ie. kissing) and then they went to a bathroom together for over 10 minutes and she claimed that all they did was kiss. It is simply illogical to believe this. You know why they went into a bathroom together. It is highly doubtful that they just continued kissing or otherwise why not go outside or to another room and kiss? Going to a bathroom together and locking the door tells you a lot. I doubt your wife is being honest with you. I would suggest that she get tested. On another board a woman caught a serious STD from giving oral sex and infected her husband. This is a very serious matter. The bottom line is that it is highly doubtful she is telling you the truth.

Ivangsd --

I do see some positives here in that she's "committed to saving our marriage and has not given me any reason to doubt her in the last few months." Can't be just lip service though; she's got to walk the walk. You're still unsteady with this (rightly so) so you need more from her than what you're getting. What would you like to see and feel from her that would help you the most in regaining your trust? Where can she provide more stability and reassurance?

Think about it, write it down, tell her what you need. I don't look at it so much to "challenge her committment to our marriage," more of a solid resetting of this fracture. You want this to mend well and permanently. "This is what I need to heal, dear W, and what will bring me peace of mind."

Just a wifey brings up a good point: even if you were to regain access to her voicemail, she easily could establish other areas of contact if she wanted to. By the same token, your W's continued refusal to permit that access will keep you spinning around on the same point forever. You, both of you, want to move off that point, and as quickly as possible. Is there any possibility that the A is ongoing, that there is continued contact?

What you're feeling and the questions you're raising are all perfectly normal and usual. Doesn't make it any easier to bear, necessarily, but there is comfort in knowing that where you are with it is where all of us have been and where many of us still are. Safety in numbers? Hang in there and let us know how you're holding up.

Ammon

I have struggled with this exact issue since finding out, it just doesn't make sense to me why they would have to go into a bathroom to do what they were doing in public anyway. Unfortunately the only people who know what really occurred are the OM and my wife. I'm sure my wife believes that if I found out that anything more did happen it would be the end of our marriage. Here lies the quandry in that if she would admit to me now that something more did happen I think it could damage our marriage beyond repair, but if she would have admitted it right away I think we could have worked through it. I still want the truth, but don't see a way that I will be able to get it. Is this a futile effort? Should I even continue try to pursue this any further?

You are in a very difficult situation. She will not tell you the truth but I think you know the answer anyway which is why it is important for her to be tested for STD's. You could always say she does not have to be tested if she would allow you to contact an attorney and set up a polygraph test just to put your mind at ease. You really do not have to do this but I am betting that her initial reaction will tell you plenty. If she says fine that the chances are she was telling you the truth. I am willing to bet that her reaction will be just the opposite.
If she says absolutely not then you may have your answer simply by her response. The bottom line was that it was not logical or consistent about hiding in the bathroom with the OM. It is sad because you are right in that if she could tell you the truth it means you could work on it.
Unfortunately it still seems like she is lying to you. You must demand that she be checked for you own safety. I wish you luck.

I wish I had thought of these suggestions in the beginning. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, we have resumed a sexual relationship, without taking into account the possibility of STD's. This would have been something I would have probably pursued, because I took the direct approach on confronting and dealing with the affair. The polygraph may be something I consider, because that may be the only way I get any peace of mind. As it is the wondering just continues to eat away me and I do worry how it has affected me(health, mental well-being, job performance, etc.) Thanks again for the posts, it helps to share.

Ivansgd,

I think the polygraph is a good idea. In the past when people have suggested it; it has lead for some of the wayward spouse finally telling the truth because there was no way out of the truth.
Look you are married. She made a deliberate choice to cheat on you by heavy kissing in public and then go hiding in the bathroom with this guy for 10 minutes. She has no right to be insulted by your request. If she acted as a proper committed spouse this would not have happened. The results have been mental, emotional and physical anguish on your part. You do not wish to live with this uncertainly. This is the very least she can do for you by showing you that she was telling you the truth. Unfortunately she has already proven to you that she is capable of cheating on you even in public.
You have the right to have your mind at peace. I wish you luck.