Ok, thanks for all who responded to my earlier post. The more I hav thought about this, the angrier I get. See, he worked nights & I work days. So, he is home alone M - F, he will send me an email every day at approx noon. He tells me he has just woke up. I found that he had created a new email on Yahoo, so I installed a spyware program to make sure he wasn't getting any emails from another woman. Well, his emails are just fine, but that is how I found out about the porn sites. He gets up, after I leave and surfs them all morning, doing Dog only knows what to his body. Then, he sends me his noon email, tell ing me he slept all morning and he can't wait for me to come home. Only I come home and nothing happens, ever. He has a cell phone, but he never takes it with him. I get on to him all the time, stating what if something happened & I needed to callhimor he needed to call me. still, he leaves it behind. I would like to think that this is his only form of an Affair right now, but I am dying inside. I do not want to answer his emails and I don't even want to go home tonight. How do I face him, knowing what he has done? It is eating me alive. I have skipped my meals three days in a row. I stay sick to my stomach. I can't sleep. He just acts like everything is hunky dory. How do I tell him, "Oh by the way, I don't trust you at all, so I installed a spyware and found out about your nasty little habit". I wantt o save my marriage and I am afraid that if I don't approach this the right way, that I will send him packing, maybe into the arms of another. And to answer the question of "how young?" Approx 16 - 22, would be my guess. I cannot compete with young bodies like that, especially not after having two children. Please someone help.

I think this is Patrick Carnes site. He is one of the foremost experts in the world on sexual addiction... which it seems it what you are dealing with

www.sexhelp.com

First of all his looking at the porn is not a reflection of you or your desirability. Is this his first marriage? How long have you 2 been married? And is there any chance he can switch his shift to days? tewjtm

Hi kdsams,

Hmmm... I've been thinking about what you've said in your previous post and in this one:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And he always tells me that he doesn't even notice the naked chics because "I broke him from that." No, he just hides the fact that he is a perv. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It appears that your H is trying to TELL you something by his statement. There are ALWAYS two sides to each story and you've told us yours. I would suspect that your H has tired to talk with you about this in his own way, but feels that you haven't been listening... thus his reliance on pornography to fill his EN for sexual fulfillment. That being said, it is NOT an excuse for him to take the intimacy away from the M and focus his desires on pornography.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, his emails are just fine, but that is how I found out about the porn sites. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK... so at least you know that he's not involved in an EA. That's good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He gets up, after I leave and surfs them all morning, doing Dog only knows what to his body. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lies are NEVER good... I suspect that he is embarrassed about his reliance on pornography and wants to keep this fact hidden from you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How do I tell him, "Oh by the way, I don't trust you at all, so I installed a spyware and found out about your nasty little habit".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK. You don't trust him. I suspect that HE doesn't trust you to meet his EN for sexual fulfillment... Also, you are being VERY judgemental when you describe this problem as HIS "nasty little habit". This problem belongs to BOTH of you if you are serious when you tell us that you are committed to your M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want to save my marriage and I am afraid that if I don't approach this the right way, that I will send him packing, maybe into the arms of another. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you continue to make this HIS problem and try to FORCE him to change, then you most probably WILL send him packing...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I cannot compete with young bodies like that, especially not after having two children. Please someone help. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, this isn't a reflection of YOU or your desirablitiy... Your H is taking intimacy from your M and using it on pornography. This is NOT what God had in mind for your M.

Please don't think that I'm minimizing your pain. I know how devestated you must feel... It just appears to me that you are placing 100% of the blame on your H when this problem concerns BOTH of you...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Forgot to add... please check out Every Man's Battle at New Life Ministries

From your original posting:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kdsams:
<strong>He has always told me that there is something wrong with him that he is just not interested in sex. Well, I am afraid that now I know why... He tells me that he loves me & he could not live without me... I do not know what to do. Should I confront him, should I seek counseling? Is this a normal "man" thing and should I just drop it? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">kdsams,
As one who has been there before (in your H's shoes), besides this site, you may want to look into the book:

Every Mans Battle: Winning the War on Sexual Temptation One Victory at a Time
by Authors: Stephen Arterburn,Fred Stoeker,Mike Yorkey
Released: 18 July, 2000
ISBN: 1578563682
Paperback
Website: Sexual Addiction - Every Man's Battle - New Life Ministries

It has provided both myself (WH) and wife (BS) much insight into this area. It is written by men, for men, in a way that men can understand. I pray that between MB and this book you will both find insight, knowledge and a way to overcome the powerful bond that pornography has held over so many men.

I know that you feel as if you are competing with the images and that there is no way you can do that. I know as I watched and heard my BS explain to me and display very similar emotions and thoughts. Please know that there is a way to get beyond this issue which is dividing your marriage and it can be done. I know you have the strength to work through it, as the words in your original post indicate so.

There is something else I know:
You are not without hope nor are you alone.

Be strong and work to conquer that which would divide you.

kdsams,

RIF90 is probably correct in much he posted. Should you confront your WS, then try not to do it in an "attacking" way. Your H will most likely react and retreat more than he already has. I would have been more receptive to my BS had she done so in such a way.

RIF90 is most likely close to the target about his reliance on porn, his feelings of failure to overcome the bond created by it, wanting to hide that failure from you and his seeking to fulfill his SF EN thru it.

Although you know your H better than anyone here, I would tend to agree that by trying to "force" him to change will only drive him away.

You may also find that he is not only lacking in his SF EN, but probably has buried anger about things in his life. From the sounds of it, he wants to tell you or communicate what has gone on, but may feel unsafe to do so. He may be feeling that if he came right out and said it, all he would recieve from you would be a series angry, judgemental, attacking, berading and degrading comments. He may also feel that he would become "unforgivable" to you.

Please understand that this is not just his problem. It is something that is affecting both of you. Work to overcome your anger and address it with him in a proper manner. Many of the feelings and emotions you are feeling right now are completely valid, but don't let them cloud you in what you do. Your anger, sadness, emotional upheaval, lack of hunger are all valid and are not being minimized or dismissed in any way.

For me, my habits took me from viewing, to an EA and almost a PA. In a way I thank God for our D-Day as it has really opened the door for me to begin to be free from all the things that bound me and created the division between my W and I. It is still a daily struggle for me, but I work on it one day at a time. I don't think that I could have ever gotten anywhere near where I am at today if it weren't for my wife.

<small>[ January 10, 2003, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: Workin_On_It ]</small>

I am so sorry that you are going through this. My H had the same problem, and was doing the same sort of things that yours is doing now. I agree with Workin'On It to a point. You should try to be as calm as possible, and less judgmental, as distasteful as H's conduct has been. But he is not the only one whose EN's are not being met, he's denied you yours for some time. He has chosen to turn away, chosen to hide and chosen to deceive.

I don't think many people understand that when they have built a reputation for lying, about anything, it makes them suspect in all things. That's why spouses "freak out" on them from time to time. They can never be sure what is a lie and what is the truth when their WS speaks, and intuition (and catching them in the lie) usually tells them they are right. For some strange reason, the lies continue, like the WS thinks they will somehow get better at it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I think most of us here understand that isn't the case. So yes, you are very right to be angry and hurt. Porn is a betrayal of the mind, as well as the body. There's nothing 'natural' or healthy about it, or it wouldn't be a multibillion dollar industry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Get the help you need for yourself right now, and pray for your H. If he is like mine, he will see the errors in time and repent. It's a long road, and you will have to work alone sometimes if he doesn't come to right away. Gather evidence if he's in denial, but just put it in front of him without SAYING anything. Let him do the talking. I have observed that this is like the layers of an onion, it comes off a little at a time, which is good, because it would be too difficult to bear all at once. Try not to be hasty with your words or actions, you cannot take them back again.

Best Wishes and God's Blessings

Ok, For those of you who think that he is trying to meet his sexual needs through these actions, you are dead wrong. I am a very loving and physical person. I like to hug him and kiss him and I love to cuddle up with him on the couch. I am not turning away any type of sexual advances. I welcome them. I am usually the one who instigates it, only to be turned down. That is why this is so hard. I could see why he was doing this if I were a cold spouse that did notlike to have sex or did not care to hold him and tell him I love him. But, good gosh, what else can I do? I thought at first that maybe I was too pushy about sex, because he turned me down 99% of the time I asked. I thought "Oh, maybe he doesn't WANT me to be the one to start. Maybe he wants to take control" So, I stopped asking. I just hold him or put my arm over him, just to let him know that I am there, if he needs me in a sexual way. What happened? Nothing. SO I stopped trying anything. I thought, "Maybe he wants to start EVERYTHING". What happened? Nothing. Now, this is not soomething that has been going on for a week. This has been going on since the day we said "I Do". (Almost 2 years ago.) I was trying to learn his patterns. Well, I have learned that if I leave it all up to him, we would never have sex. Ok, I take back Never, maybe once every two months or so. Sorry, that makes me feel very undesirable and unwanted. So, of course I thought, "he's having an affair. My first husband did it, so I guess he could,too." That is when I finally installed the spyware and began seeing what he was doing for his SF. It's not me, he would prefer to "get off" (excuse the harshness) on the computer, than to hold me. He has even stated saving some of his favorites pictures to a floppy disk, but i have no idea where he is hiding it. He even brought one home from work, and opened it one day. (Remember I can see all activity, it showed me how he went to my computer and chose a: drive and then opened the phooto. I am assuming he got it from work because the time corresponded with the time he comes in from work.)

Now, I do not think that he does not love me. He tells me so all the time. He is very verbal about his feelings, but how can I really trust them when I catch him lying all the time? I want to trust him so bad. And I keep praying that one day I will log on & find that he has stopped this. I have suggested before that he seeks counseling for his lack of sexual desire (which is what HE calls it). He says he is embarrased. I understand that. Although, he does not have a problem getting an erection. It is not anything like that. I can get him completely aroused, but he still does not WANT to do anything. He'll lay there with an erection and go to sleep.

If I could, I would like to reslove this WITHOUT telling him that I know what he has been doing. I want him to stop and I want him to use me for his SF, that is one of the reasons I am here, right? We don't have any money problems, or family troubles. Our life, from the outside, seems totally perfect. He is just not physically attracted to me. At least that is how I feel. He won't hold my hand, unless I reach for his. He won't hug me, unless I start it. And I cannot tell you the last time we had a REAL passionate kiss, they are just small pecks & I start them, too. The only thing that I know he does that is loving in anyway is that he always tells me "I love you" when we are getting off the phone. And, when he leaves for work he always kisses my forhead. (He thinks I am asleep, but he always wakes me when he gets up at night to go in to work.) The other night, I was really sick and he thought I was asleep. He came to my side of the bed and stroked my hair and felt of my forehead. He then kissed me on the cheek and left for work. That is the most loved I have felt in a long time. I am at such a loss. I just want my husband to be my husband and stop looking at 18 year olds for SF. I think he knows that something is up with me, because I have withdrawn a bit. I am trying not to, but I am hurting so bad. And, his activity has slowed online the past couple of days. I am not sure if it is because he has been busy with other activities or if it is beacuse he feels guilty. I just wish I could get into that head of his and figure out what I am doing wrong. I feel like this is all my fault.

I am really not sure where to turn anymore. I am so confused and upset. I cry all the time, now.
I am trying not to give up, but it is so hard when I feel like I am the only one that cares about our marriage and our sexual connection. The really upsetting thing is that he tells all his buddies at work that he is such a stud. They complain to him that their wives never want to have sex and he joins in. That upsets me so badly. That is the total opposite. I just don't understand.

KDSAMS !!!!!

This is NOT NOT NOT about H's "sexual needs". Noooooooo

This is about his anxiety ..... compulsive behavior is all about anxiety ... it makes no difference what the compulsive behavior is ... the reason under the behavior is ANXIETY.

The compulsive behavior (whatever it is ... masterbation, handwashing ... whatever) detracts the person's mind away from their anxious feelings. It's a sedative in a way. Your H is self-medicating. Your H needs to determine what his anxiety is all about.

Approach him from this point of view ... it is about HIM and his inner demons ... not about you. Do NOT personalize this issue (tempting to do, I know, but resist). Your H needs help, and if you resent him for needing help because it hurts your feelings .... then things just get worse.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pepper,

Thank goodness for you. You are the only one that finally put it into perspective for me. My H used to be on medication for his anxiety and I found out last night that he had stopped taking them. Your posting made me think and I went and checked his supply. He has been off for about 3 weeks now. That may totally explain his behavior.

I talked to him last night. On our way to my mom's, we were talking about purchasing some 4-wheelers. He was teasing me saying that I would have to get the fastest one out there. I said, "You must think I am some speed queen or something." He said, "You used to be. I am trying to get that fun-loving, out-going Kelly back." I told him, "Well, she been hiding out with the fun-loving, out-going Greg." I thought he was going to cry. He told me that he realizes that he has not been himself lately, that he was really worried about his job. They are laying off some people. And he was really worried. although, his position is one that will always be needed, he could be one of the ones cut, because he is one of the newest hires. I told him that he should not worry about it, everything will work out fine, it always does.

Then I asked if he was still taking his meds. He sheepishly answered "no". And I asked him to take them again. That it would keep him from getting so worked up and anxious over things he can't control. He knows that and he agreed to start them again. He had also got some good news at work, in the middle of the lay-off scare. They changed his schedule a bit and now we get all day saturday together! His normal schedule was nights during the week & all day on Saturday & Sunday. Well, they gave him a break and now he has Saturdays off.

So, I think we will begin to have more together time. More family time as well. He expressed last night that he really missed me & the girls. That he felt so alone because he never got to do anything with us. He misses all of their plays and recitals. So, now we have one long day and night to spend together every weekend. And the good thing is that the girls go to their biological father's every other weekend, so then he & I get a full day alone.

He even held my hand in the truck on the way to pick up a trampoline for the girls, on the way back to my parents to return their truck and in the car ride to the restaurant for dinner. While we were waiting for our table, he put his arm around me and stroked my hair. And he was very sexually playful on the way home. Just saying silly things. It got quiet at one point and then he said, "I am really glad that I married you. I just thought I would tell you that." I did all I could not to cry, I am doing that now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And when we got home? He instigated sex. I could not believe it. And he said, "I have really missed this."

I hope this is a turning point for us, I really do. I so did not want to bring up the net surfing. And thanks to Pepper, I got my jumping off point. I found out what has had him all worked up and I am hoping that this is a brand new beginning for us.

Thanks to all of you who have cared. I will keep you posted on our progress. No, I do not expect it to be repaired after one night. I am still hurt and I am sure it will take a little while for him to control his compulsions. But there are a few things I have learned...

ASK . You never know what they are truly feeling unless you ask.

LOVE . Never stop loving them and showing them that you love them. All that does is push them farther away. (Get this, he thought I was having or contimplating an affair, beacuse I became withdrawn.)

COMMUNICATE . If you don't let them know that you love them, no matter what, they will never know. No one can read minds, I don't care what Ms. Cleo says.

DON'T GIVE UP OR GIVE IN . I could have walked away and gave up. The best thing I did was come to this site . It allowed me to air my feelings and get all the anger out before I approached him. He still has no clue that I know, and I doubt I will ever tell him.

Living & Learning,
Kelly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />