Hi cerri - I saw your reply on my Guidelines post and wanted to thank you for your endorsement - if that's what it was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please don't be shy to offer suggestions to improve it. I am working on a Full Monty version that I may seek to have published, but writing it is mostly for my own selfish reasons - perhaps a form of closure, I'm not sure. I think a practical, non-academic, non-professional account from a survivor who can relate anecdotal descriptions would be of value to "newbies." Do you agree?

I admit to not knowing your background, but I know you coach posters here as they sometimes mention your advice. What exactly is your relationship with MB and what are your professional credentials? Just curious.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong>Hi cerri - I saw your reply on my Guidelines post and wanted to thank you for your endorsement - if that's what it was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please don't be shy to offer suggestions to improve it. I am working on a Full Monty version that I may seek to have published, but writing it is mostly for my own selfish reasons - perhaps a form of closure, I'm not sure. I think a practical, non-academic, non-professional account from a survivor who can relate anecdotal descriptions would be of value to "newbies." Do you agree?

I admit to not knowing your background, but I know you coach posters here as they sometimes mention your advice. What exactly is your relationship with MB and what are your professional credentials? Just curious.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey WAT... sorry about the D and the fact that wife and OM are getting married. You do know that their chances of success are something like 15-20%?

Was the D ugly? Any chance you would be willing to reconcile if/when the affair/marriage falls apart? Don't laugh, it happens. You'd be surprised to know what goes on in the heads of women who marry their affair partners....

Who has your son? Can I ask what happened with the son that died? And to tell you how sorry I am to know that. I had a child die shortly after birth. He would have been 18 this year, it still makes me cry..... almost immmediately.

My story is long and convoluted. It's all at P's thread here at JFO... you know the one that is so long that MB admin will need to either cut us off or give us our own board before too long! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My connection with MB and the Harleys is rather long and funny. Well to me anyway!

Let's see, I heard WH on the radio when Give and Take was first published in spring? of 1996. I bought the book the next week. Unfortunately my marriage had been so bad for so long, and I was involved in an EA, so reading it just made me mad. I couldn't finish it.

My EA went to PA for 6 weeks and then on and off for 6 more. It ended rather nastily when OM's wife woke him one morning with a butcher knife to the throat. I haven't seen him since then, nor do I want to. It was the stupidest thing I've ever done!!!

I forced my xh to move out in the spring of 97 and met my current H that summer. Yes, one could consider that an A also, but at the time I would never have agreed to that concept. (Are we seeing the irony in my life here... I could now be called an EXTREME opponent of affairs and of ending marriages.... life is weird)

I moved in with my current H in Nov of 97. And as all affairs do, it turned less than pretty. However I came to the R with G&T in hand wanting to live by the Harley principles (once I got over being mad, of course.) I found MB online in 97 or early 98... there was no forum then but there might have been a newsletter. I remember the early postings about the yet to be unleashed forum. Mostly I was searching for info on anger and abuse.

In the fall of 98 we began counselling with Jennifer. We went about 3 or 4 times, but once she found out that my D was not final and that my x would take me back she dumped us. (As a coach I would probably do the same now.)

We struggled through a few more years, adding to our Harley library and fighting over the things we read.... somehow that whole concept of demands wasn't sinking in too well!!!

In 99 we found KKMS and at that time WH had a daily show, we listened daily. You learn a lot more about the Harley concepts when you hear real people than you do in the books. Of course it makes more sense if you've read all the books..... multiple times.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I began emailing WH for help on the anger issues. His advice (which I didn't take) was to separate. I wish I had listened, but I now know that getting people to Plan B is like pulling chicken teeth. I found the forum and signed up sometime in 99 or early 2000 but I lost that id and password.

D-day was spring of 2000. H joined SAA at that time. We were married that summer.

In the fall of 2000 or spring of 2001 we went to the MB weekend in Mpls. By this time I was so far into w/d that I didn't even want to hear the concepts. Not that I didn't believe or endorse them.... I've never wavered on my insistence that WH is brilliant, but I just figured this would be one more of those broken promises. And for the most part I was right.

I got pretty active here in the spring of 2001. I can't tell you how shocked I was at the departure from WH's teachings!!!! But that's another story.

I left my job in May of 2001.... I owned my own business for something like 15 years and discovered I "do not play well with others" in the corporate world. That fall I read an article on coaching and decided it was the perfect career for a bossy oldest child!

At that time MB wasn't certifying coaches so I took the course offered through Spencer Institute. It's a broad based coaching curriculuum and covers lots of cool stuff.

Fall of 2001 the anger issues got really out of hand here so we did some work with SH.

Then last spring MB announced that they would offer cert. for coaches so I signed up for that. The initial class is the same as the weekend only it is geared towards professionals, so we got to ask all the questions couples cannot at a weekend. It was fabulous. The follow up is to do the 24 sessions that couples take home, and then to help couples who are struggling with those same lessons.

So I've just completed the 24 weeks of book sessions.... and it was waaay fun this time around.... and now I'm expecting to move on to the "internship" of couples from the weekends. At the end of that time, if I can demonstrate that I can keep them motivated and on track, I'll be an MB cert. coach.

In the middle of all that I did Plan B of my own and that's when things really began to turn around here. Now we really use the MB stuff. Are we perfect? Nahhhh.... but having listened to the Harley show for years, and having seen them at their seminars... I see little boo boos there too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> We're all human, it's a process.

In the meantime, I preach the Harley gospel here. Especially as it relates to infidelity. I have a coaching practice of my own so I stay pretty busy. (understatement of the year...) I do want to say that although I do a lot of what might be called coaching here, and I have a lot of MBers who show up in my email and who call me their coach, I am careful to not solicit business here. The work I do with MBers who know me from here is volunteer. A couple have chosen on their own to hire me, but they sought me out for that purpose. Most just get the use of my brain 'cuz I like what I do.

My web site is www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com

There are other funny little twists and turns to my relationship with the Harleys, but they get lost in the telling.

I'm seriously considering taking Michele Weiner Davis' coaching training this spring. Much of her work is congruent with my ideas and it adds to what I can offer.

How's that for the abridged version?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

C

Wow, cerri - more than I expected. I wish you luck with your certifications.

To answer your questions, yes, the D was ugly, but not violent - due mostly, maybe, to my passive approach. I let her make all the "continue" decisions. As a result, I am guilt free. I cannot speak for her, but I am not her friend now and I cannot be until a lot of cleansing takes place. They have already married - to the chagrin of the rest of the world. I must assume that they exist in their own little chaos, oblivious to everything else.

My biggest frustration is dealing with the effect of all of this on my son. I have half custody. He is clearly stuck between reality and fantasy, wanting to please both me and his Mom, choosing to ignore an affair took place. Additionally, he was very good "friends" with OM previously, so cumulatively all this motivated his acceptance, apparently, as he has bought into their explanation of things big time. He does not want to choose sides and just wants to look forward. But I detect degradation in the form of rationalizations and illogical justifications. I'm afraid he's learning some bad behavior.

As for my deceased son, he was diagnosed with stage IV neuroblastoma three weeks before his third birthday (Dec. 1993). He went thru the Full Monty of treatment including a bone marrow transplant and achieved remission and returned to pre-school in Oct. 1994. He was normal and thriving and we were hopeful he was cured. He relapsed in May, 1998 and went thru the whole thing again, but his remission was brief and he relapsed just six months out from his second BMT in June, 1999.

I am convinced my XW's affair, commencing about 10 months after his death, was motivated largely by her unresolved grief and need to escape the pain of our son's loss. Any port in a storm. Believe me, OM is NO prize - the first opportunity to come along.

No, I do not envision reconciliation when they crash. BTW, 15 - 20% sounds high to me!!

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:

As for my deceased son, he was diagnosed with stage IV neuroblastoma three weeks before his third birthday (Dec. 1993). He went thru the Full Monty of treatment including a bone marrow transplant and achieved remission and returned to pre-school in Oct. 1994. He was normal and thriving and we were hopeful he was cured. He relapsed in May, 1998 and went thru the whole thing again, but his remission was brief and he relapsed just six months out from his second BMT in June, 1999.

I am convinced my XW's affair, commencing about 10 months after his death, was motivated largely by her unresolved grief and need to escape the pain of our son's loss. Any port in a storm. Believe me, OM is NO prize - the first opportunity to come along.

No, I do not envision reconciliation when they crash. BTW, 15 - 20% sounds high to me!!

WAT</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How tragic. I am so sorry about your son. I can't imagine going through all that, and yet I know from my son's five days on the planet, that you do it because you have no choice.

Yes, I'm sure the A had much to do with trying to escape from the grief. What she may not know yet, that she will, is that the grief just intensifies in a situation such as where she is now.

No hope for reconciliation because you would not be interested?

C

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cerri:
<strong>No hope for reconciliation because you would not be interested?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correct. Of course, that's assuming the opportunity presents itself, which I do not expect. She seems incapable of admitting a mistake. Then again, it wouldn't have been a mistake - it would have been the right thing at the time, necessary for the situation. Understand? Ahhhh, life without a brain.............or at least, without a mirror.

WAT

Well, I certainly understand your position.
And you are ethically or otherwise under no obligation to condsider it. Being the child of divorced parents, and seeing the grief and struggles of my own children, my heart is always with the little ones. Even after 31 years and a second marriage for my mom (also ending in D) I still have this famtasy that my parents would reconcile.

As to her thoughts, believe me, no matter what women present on the outside, you would be amazed to know what goes on in the secret places of the heart.

I like your guidelines for BS's. Interested in doing an article for my newsletter?

C

"Interested in doing an article for my newsletter?"

Hmmmm, maybe. Please mail me at DCScandals@yahoo.com to explore this off the forum.

WAT

Hey cerri,

Congratulations on your certification and 'way to go' on the website. I had no idea that you had done all this. That's a very cool story!

(Sorry to interrupt, Dave---you may return to your regularly scheduled posting... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )