Kat...I can't remember...is your H looking for a new job? Is this a possiblity to discuss if he's not?

From my own experience, might be different with you, but I could not heal as long as there was any contact, even when I knew he was doing everything in his power to avoid her. Even with H being as good as gold...it still wasn't happening. If at all possible, your H needs a new job. jmho

Hang in there...don't push hard about the letter, but don't allow him to think you've forgotten it either.

Hugs!

KatHurt --

Remember that this is a process with its own schedule. It can't be hurried or bypassed. Recovery takes as long as it takes. If you knew for certain that this investment of time and pain was necessary for a complete and solid healing, would you be more patient? A little like baking that cake: watching it and opening the door and fussing over it won't speed the process one bit.

You have great strength yourself. You don't even know how much reserve you have; it hasn't even been asked yet of you. Keep your goal centered in your sights and know--know!--that this is doable, and what's more, YOU can do it.

I agree (yet another time!) with Just a Wifey 2002: your H needs to find another job. The present situation makes things so very difficult for you and for him.

I know how hard all of this is on you, how much you're suffering with the heaviness of this burden. I am still encouraged that things will work themselves out for you both. I'm very glad to see that you're still hanging in.

Ammon

Thanks for all your concerns guys. He has answered the letter. He acknowledges that he was flatter by a younger girls attentions but states he knows it was never love.

You were right just a wifey, I do feel better with the answers in writing. He has given me something to think about but claims he loves me above anything else.

His job is a different item all together. He is in charge of a large area of the country. She is within one of the teams but lives about 100 miles away from our city. She has to come to our city(as part of a shift roster) two may be three times a week, at different times of the day(day/night). If he were to try to move his job, it would mean moving to another part of the country. My children are 14/17 an important time in their education. This would not be possible.

He has promised me that he will not see her again but any advice would be appreciated on how this is possible in this situation. I need to learn to trust him in this area but how?

A slightly happier person after reading his letter.

KatHurt

Kat...I was really hoping you hadn't replied now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> H opened a bottle of meotot an I've had too mudh...which means more then one galss! THIS IS WINE! HOWEVER I SPELLED ITQ!!!! I should nver drink and say antything! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So I dont iknow if I should answer or not...but wanted to stess...he talked to you!!!! THATS GOOD!!!! He is not ducking the issue. Good for HIM!!! this is not easy for him.

I'll answer with more sober sense tomorrow....but it sounds really good!!!!

Do need to add...as I wnt back to reread your reply...I understand how important it is for your children at that age to feel secure...but...their basic sercurity comes for the two of you..I still say he needs to find a job where the OW...xOW ....is not in the picture. (You have no idea how many backspaces I had to make to do that...I may still have gotten it all wrong!+) But this is importanta!!!! So if it amkes no sense...READ above post!!!!

Hope you are feeling better!! Sounds like you had a good night.

We spoke last night about the contains of the letter. Nothing in it came as a surprise. He still claims that he never slept with her as I quote "It did not feel right" but hey!! He knows that he has shut down,hoping that the mess would all go away but understands that I need to talk. He has told me that he will try harder.

Within myself I knew the reasons why this all happened. Pretty young face flatters older guy. Understands all about his working life. I have since learn that her marriage was not very strong. If think she was looking for a way out, who knows. It take two!!

About his job. This is very hard. We discussed this and I know that this is not possible. He is a government worker who in the past 12 months has been given a highly paid promotion. We know that to enable us to put our daughter through university, he must stay in his current role. We lived in another city when the children were young and it took them a very long time to adjust. I do not want that again due to his stupid ways.

I know this won't be easy. He knows this won't be easy. I feel that I am trapped in a no win postion. Coping with the fact that he may see her everyday is mad!!. But I don't know what else I can do? He has promised to work around her shifts as much as he can but he tells me that there will come a day when they bump into each other. He promises that he will tell me everything but you know the old story "NO TRUST".

Any advice would be most helpful.

KatHurt

P.S. After reading the letter still slightly happier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

OK...I'll accept that changing jobs right now just isn't going to work. This does make it much harder.

Maybe by continuing in this job it can help him regain your trust if he is really good about telling you each and every time he has to have any type of contact...even if it only means he saw her at the end of the hall and no words were spoken.

The two of you should really talk about how you would like him to act, what he should or should not say if forced into direct contact. Knowing what you need from him...and then him doing it might give you a little more sense of control and security.

Be VERY honest with him about your feelings. Don't downplay them. This is going to be hard on you. He can make it easier by being VERY open and honest.

When my H had to continue in his job for a bit after xOW transfered into his building...his efforts and the extra steps he took to make sure that she didn't corner him made it somewhat easier for me. He had other co-workers running interference for him, he forwarded any emails, even work related ones which he received from her to me. He informed me of any contact which he knew about beforehand....before it happened (ie working meetings).

We had an understanding that when he came home each night he'd either say there had been no contact at all that day or that there had been...as the first words out of his mouth. This way I was never in doubt after he first arrived home.

He discovered that I could handle this...if he was truthful. He learned that he was safe to talk to me. I wouldn't be up on the ceiling for her actions when he had no control over them...only his own.

Hope this helps! Yeah, the night was fun...but the next morning was murder! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 24, 2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: just a wifey 2002 ]</small>

Hi again

Thanks for your reply. We had a long talk last night and I tried to get him to go and talk to someone. He is full of guilt and shame but thinks that going to talk to someone want help him (even though he admitted that it would!!). I told him about your advice and who if it wasn't for you I would have gone mad. He does want to open up his heart to someone netural, someone who is not involved and thinks that the intenet may be the place to find it. I wish he could talk yo you.

He tells me that he cannot on focus on anything at all because the "madness" keeps going round in his head. He says that it has been hard on him too. Not in the same way as me but in the guilt respect.

Help me please!!!

KatHurt

Kat...the guilt and shame are normal when he's coming out of the confusion. He's looking at everything that happened without anything standing between him and reality. It's a hard, cold look at what he allowed himself to become. Very difficult for what is truly a good man, who lost his way.

Soon, if he hasn't already, he'll move from guilt and shame into remorse. Now the difference in these is that guilt and shame are still pretty much all about how he feels, about self. When he moves into remorse, it's about realizing the damage he has caused and wanting to do whatever he can to repair that damage and make those changes in himself where that damage can never happen again. He'll be able to really empathize with your suffering and began to understand the true harm that has happened.

It's really going to be hard on him to have to confess to some third party what happened. No one likes to do this, but yes, he is right, as are you...you both need some outside guidence. It's not so much that they should tell you what to do, as it is to point out some really glaring options that we just overlook and don't see at all. And just to let you do a lot of self-discovery.

Individual counseling and then marriage counseling. Either with the same counselor or different ones. Whatever you do, find one/s that you are comfortable with and who you can be open and honest with.

H and I found that having separate counselors to begin with worked best for both of us. This way neither of us had to "walk on eggshells" as we were getting the "dirt" out. I got to rage without fearing of hurting him further and he got to rage without fearing of causing me more sorror or anger. Helped both of us to come together in marriage counseling.

We did end up deciding to use H's counselor as our marriage counselor...I really did like her and it made it a little easier on him not to have to go back over all the old painful parts for her to know what had happened.

Believe me, I understand his pain. I of course understand yours. But it took me a long while to really understand the sorrow and pain that he caused himself. It's pretty hard for us as the BS to see just how much pain the WS causes themselves from their actions. Think of it like this...How would you feel if you run over your child and you didn't even do it intentionally? Now...isn't that just a little of how you felt you've been treated? We don't call this being blindsided by a Mac truck for nothing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If you or your H would like to email me, we'll work something out. I don't normally give out my email address/s, but we'll figure something out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I think they've even got private messages here, but have never looked into figuring out how to use them.

You hang in there. It really does sound as if you and your H are both committed to overcoming this and building a healthier marriage. If we could do, while making so many mistakes...so too can you!

Hugs!

The private message service doesn't work on site...unless you are a forum leader...sorry! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Bad weekend.

I get the feeling that he is here because he has no other choice. He keeps on telling me that he will always love me and be here forme and the kids but when I ask him if he is in love with me, he doesn.t answer!!

I am very upset as I feel he is getting depressed and feels trapped.

God who said that I could make it!!!!!!!!

Part of me feels that I should just give up now. The other part says I can't. He tells me that he is bored doing the same thing all the time but I explain that this is life and everything/everybody goes through this.

My spirit is dying I can no longer keep up this cheerfulness.

Please please help me

KatHurt

Kat...you're going to have LOTS of bad weekends and Lots of bad days, and inbetween a lot of confusing ones and very few good ones for what could be a long time.

You two have got to get into counseling...you can't do this by yourselves, or at the very least it will be much longer and harder to accomplish.

He will be depressed, as are you! Both of you need to see about anti-d meds. This isn't going to be easy...it isn't going to go smoothly. You're both going to be making mistakes, you're both reading things into whatever the other is saying, doing...which aren't really there.

Yes, maybe life isn't very exciting all the time...but...we do NOT have to do the same thing over and over again...began planning something new NOW. You do NOT have to live life in this manner unless you choose to do so. (However, this is unlikely to be the real issue here...but nethertheless, he brought it up...so find a solution.)

Whatever you normally do for dinner tonight...change...create a pinic on the den floor, or send the kids to bed early and do NOT turn on the TV, but instead get some games out...whatever it might be that is different. Ask him out on a date for coffee and pie after dinner. Take him for a drink at a new place in town. (no driving drunk! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) Then inform him it's his turn to think up something that isn't "boring"....put the responsibilty for planning on both of your shoulders and take turns.

If you don't feel cheerful...then you're not! You've been hurt, you are hurting...be honest about how you feel. (I know many don't agree with this.) But, I don't think you can expect honesty if you don't give it. jmho Don't expect him to read your mind...and stop trying to read his...ask him. (Which often will not get you any information...but ask anyway!)

He CHOSE you, he didn't have to, no one forced him to do so. You CHOSE to stay and try, you didn't have to, no one forced you to do so.

This doesn't make it all go away, it doesn't make it easy, it doesn't mean that everything will be alright...it means that the two of you are trying. It means that the two of you love each other enough to face the horrible task of rebuilding your marriage.

The errors we make, the feelings we question...all come with rebuilding. But committing to rebuilding, to loving, to not giving up...can often get us over the "bumps" which we face. It can happen, you and your H can succeed...but not easily and definitly not quickly.

HUGS!

Well, what a difference a day makes (Sound like a song).

Due to the nature of his job,my H received a phone call last night from one of his team. A good "job" had gone down and he had to call his "boss". I could see the look on his face change as the discussion went on.

You are not going to believe what was said. A new post has been created (one year only) to cover most of the country and he has been asked if he wants the post. When he came off the phone he told me that it would mean NO contact his the OW. It would mean that he would have to stay away from home one maybe twice a week, but he does that anyway. He tells me it is a challenge and he would like to take the job as it would give him something new to focus on.

We talked about it and guess the next thing? He has agreed to go to councling. I have to make an appointment as soon as possible. Both of us have agreed that to move on we need help. Thank God. All my prayers asre being listened too.

He has to find out more about the job before he can accept it but do you thing that even a year away from her would help us to mend?

I feel that I am in a dream. He would still be based in our town but would have no need to go to the areas that she works in.

What do you think Wifey.

KatHurt

We are still

Congrats on H's new position at work!!!! Yes, this could make things so much easier for both of you!!!!

VERY glad to hear that he is ready for counseling...that is something that most of us just really need to get out all the issues on the table. It's sad that the two of you will have to deal with the betrayal issue first before you can really get down to dealing with all the other issues which we all have crop up from time to time in a marriage, but hey...at least you're beginning the path to enlightenment!

A year of his having NC and giving you a lot of support, encouragement, and sense of security can indeed make a world of difference. You'll have some breathing space to heal, he's got the time needed to show to you that he can be trustworthy and will be, he'll learn skills to avoid old pitfalls and mistakes.

I think today is a much bighter day!

Good Luck! (sorry, H's computer crashed last night, took out our network card. He's gone to get another one, but until things are back up and normal...I'll be more off then on. I'm on his right now...but as soon as he returns...he'll boot me off! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Thanks for that. I feel you have become a dear friend. I know that we have a very long way to go but hey! I can do it if he can.

I have made the appointment for next Thursday at lunch time. It will be an initial session and then after that we will know where we go from there. What should I expect from this? I feel that I am geting somewhere now but I am afraid that I am too optimistic just now.

I just hope that we can make this work. We are going away for Valentines Day, just the two of us! So the session will be before that. I feel that sometimes I want to shake him because I know he cares but he forgets to show it.

KatHurt

First sessions are usually mainly about gathering background information on both of you. I just posted this to 1badhusband, as he's about to have his first session with a counselor, too.

Since your session is for next Thrusday, not this Thursday, I'd call and offer to fill out some background information and drop it off at the counselor's office prior to your first appointment...this way, hopefully, he/she will get up to speed on what's has happened in the past and what you are wanting to deal with today. They normally want to know what type of childhood/family background both of you had, if parents are still alive and how well you communicate with them. What type of past relationships you had and the success/failure, etc. What is happening in the present, your family make-up now, etc. Your goals for yourself and what you hope to get from counseling.

Be sure to interview the counselor somewhat. Find out what their normal counseling style consists of. Explain what your primary goals are...ie...restoring your marriage and improving it.

IF...you OR your H don't feel comfortable with this counselor...don't give up. Keep seeking one that both of you can connect to. It sometimes takes more then one try...so don't get discouraged. A good counselor is worth their weight in gold, a bad one or one you just can't be open with is worse then no counselor. jmho

Your counselor should point out options you may have missed. Stop you dead in your tracks if you start non-productive past habits (such as interupting, judgeing, not listen, inserting what your spouse is feeling instead of letting them tell what they feel). They should help you both find a way which works for the two of you on a communication level. Lots of guidance, very little of telling you what you "should do". Offer you options on what might work and point out what is not likely to work.

Counseling will not be easy. You'll both have to face some unpleasant truths about each other and what may be worse...about yourself. But it is a journey to self-discovery, discovery of new aspects in your mate and enlightenment.

You may have counseling sessions where you actually leave madder then you were when you went in, but this is a learning process. You'll have sessions which you think solved something...and then two hours after the session...you discover your mate didn't solve a thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Or you didn't.

There will be times when you both finish a session and know that you are on the right path and this is doable...and you're doing it right, you're doing it together, and just how much the two of you have choosen the right path.

It's not a magical wand which when waved over the two of you...will make it all better...but it is a tool...one which can help both of you reach a true agreement on your goals, find out what each of you want/need/expect from the other and how to go about meeting/getting these.

Be HONEST...painfully so...the more you give to the counseling sessions, the more you will receive.

Good Luck! And HUGS!!!

Thanks for your advice. I think it will be hard but we will give it a try.

Is it normal for him to be so distant at times. There are times when I do not know what is going on in his mind? I sometimes feel that he never trys hard enough to make me feel "the centre of his life" anymore.

Oh yes, he is caring as in he does a lot of thing for me, like picking me up from work and helping me around the house. But I feel the romance has gone from my life now. He was always attentive to me with love but well I just feel a bit "left" now.

Will this intimate feeling come back Wifey? How can I help this along?

You should take this up professionally, you are really good.

Thanks for all your help again I do not know where I would be without you.

Smiles & Hugs

KatHurt
(Slightly more hopeful)

Good morning!

Feeling a sense of distance: Yes, this is normal for both of you. You're both feeling as if you've lost the path to each other. (Told you this was hard!) Just as you have moments when you wonder if all this pain is worth rebuilding your marriage...so will he. This is a two way street. Neither of you know yet that you will be successful, it's scary, you question if you've made the right decision, you wonder if after doing everything you can...will you still fail.

BUT...BOTH of you are still in there swinging...trying...working together. Doesn't mean that you KNOW IN YOUR HEARTS that you can do this all the time...most of the time...you may know...but there will still be times when you doubt.

Reconnecting on a level of intimacy can be very difficult. Partly because you have lost the way to each other where you are comfortable and accepting of what the other has to offer, and partly because you are fearful of how your offer might be accepted from the other. Fear is a great wall to overcome. It builds high and thick walls.

He fears what you may think when he reaches out to you, will you want his touch (even if you've already told him how much you do), will touching you bring back memories of the closeness you once shared, or will it bring back memories of the distance you suffered. You fear the same thing, just from the other side of the mirror.

You both find that what was once done with no fore thought, now as the action begans...you THINK...(ie. maybe something as simple as reaching out to hold your/his hand)...FEAR is the cause of this. And then you stop yourself from completing the action. It's stiff, it doesn't feel natural, and you don't carry though. You feel disconnected and as you said..."left".

This is not an easy one to overcome, as there is so much fear. It is the fear that you must acknowledge, work through together, and put to rest. Fear is not always logical, even when it has some basis in reason...for fear is for the most part an uncontrolable reaction to what we preceive is a dangerous situation...one ripe with landmines.

How to help it along? You're giving me tough questions now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> As with everything in this type of situation...you've got to open up a discussion and TALK about it. Fear is less likely to keep it's hold on you if you drag it out of the shadows, admit it exsists and began to really get the source of why it has come to root in your heart.

Learn to complete those aborted actions. Even if you've hesitated...finish it. Make yourself go up to him and put your head on his shoulder, your arms around him, and get that hug you want so badly. He's to do this action, too. Don't stop the action just because you've thought about all the reasons your action might not be accepted and appreciated...do it anyway!

Fear you will note has been the focus of this reply...it is a major enemy here. Beware of it. Acknownledge it. Don't ignore it. You are both afraid of many things right now. Some you may be able to put a name to, many you can't.

Fear is a poor "soil" in which love can "bloom"...the sooner you can overcome most of your fears (and H), the better. But this is a most difficult area to be successful in. As fear is a normal and good part of each of our lives, it keeps us from doing things which are dangerous, yet, when it becomes the focus instead of a side issue, it becomes a hungry wolf eating at our self-esteem, our confidence, etc.

HUGS!!!

Thanks for all your time Wifey. You are great. When we first started talking someone said it was "good to have you on my side" and they were right.

Funny kind of day today. He had a really long meeting and I got it into my head that he was with her. Confronted him and we had words!! He says he understanded that I am frightened but sometimes he looses his patients.

Not looking forward to the weekend because he is working and assures me that she is not but!!!

I miss the things we used to laugh about. I miss the silly cuddles. I look into his eyes at times and think "whats going on in there".

Last night I told him that I do not think I can go onlike this and he told me if I couldn't then he would leave. That hurt and I told him so. I suppose he feels like me at times in the fact that he cannot go on? What do you thinks?

I just want him to give me more attention (cuddles/smiles etc) I really do miss this.

Sorry feeling a bit down today. He will meet with his boss today to find out more about this job. Must hold onto this good feeling.

Love & Hugs

KatHurt

Yes, you both will have times where you feel as if you just want to scream and do anything just to release the tension and get away from it. Remember...the two of you are not taking the easy way out...that would be walking away from each other...you're sticking it out, trying to get the healing started, learning new ways of interacting with each other, discovery of self and other. It's hard. (You will find that I put "it's hard" in about every one of my posts...because it is TRUE!)

If you want the cuddles...tell him. He may be afraid to approach you, he may feel as if you don't want the cuddles right now. But whatever is stopping them...do NOT expect him to "just know" what you want. NO mind reading expections allowed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

That scared feeling you have in your stomach every time he works late, different hours, etc.; is from our loss of trust, our feelings of having no control over his choices and of being out of control ourselves. This only passes with time and his continued good behavior while he reclaims the trust he lost. Wish I could tell you a short cut to losing this fear...but I can't.

Hope this position at work is really a good career move for him and one which will have many other added benefits for both of you. Keeping my fingers crossed.

HUGS!

Hi

I must thank you for keeping with me durin this nightmare Wifey. I know you are good with other too.

He does know that I want cuddles. When I ask him he is always okay with it. It is just that before I Never had to ask him. I know what you are saying about being afraid but I have told him that these kind of things would make me better.

He has spoken to his boss about the job. Looks like he will be starting it in March. He will be based in his own office and have no contact with her!. He has told me that it is a new start for us (even thought it is only for one year). i think it may be enought to make the difference. It will have a small increase in salary but it is a job that if he does it well, it could lead to better things for us. Here's hoping.

We are going out tonight after work to the gym then on for a meal. Taking your advice and trying to think of something different to do. Trying to keep smiling but at times it is very hard. When we watch TV and there is something on it about affairs or read a newspaper and there is something in there about marriage break ups. It seems to follow us every where.

I do love this man. I find at times at my work that I have forgotten about it for 15 minutes.

Speak to you soon

KatHurt