About a month ago, I found out my w was having an EA with what she calls a friend. We are married 5 yrs with 2 children(ages 1 & 3) She says it was someone to talk to. Obviously she didn't think I would understand, so she would delete the calls from caller ID and say she was going out with her friends etc. Basically lying to me every day. This has gone on for about 6 months. Our relationship hasn't been the greatest since the children since we spent no time alone. We drifted apart and I guess both began to feel unloved. This lead to further problems with communication and every other aspect of our lives. At some point I knew something was going on because she would not come close to me or really did care for me. She didn't care if I was going to lose my job, go on the family vacation or anything regarding our future. I found out about a month ago what was going on. I told I was going for the big D. Cooler heads prevailed but I still felt she was lying. Finally at the end of dec, I noticed that she had set up a yahoo Email account and was deleting all the mail. I set up some software to find out was going on and did. We had been to marriage a conselor and was lying to him also. Finally when the **** hit the fan, she admitted she was in love with someone else. We are still living together and she says she wants to give this thing try. (probably for the kids sake) She says she has broken contact w OM. I don't know what to do. Who knows if I am being lied to again.
I feel like I am in a lose lose situation. I still love my wife but I don't if this can ever work out.

what did you do to your computer to find out about the emails?

I installed spy software that records every keystroke and takes pictures of pages every minute or so. cost $ 20. It runs in a stealth mode that cannot be seen by anyone.(unless you know the code)

Harley has said it does not matter why there is a commitment to a marriage, it just matters that there is one. It may not be a great start, but it is a start.

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Wakeme-
Do everything that John says. I've yet to read SAA. Amazon mailed it to me yesterday. I read Hendrix,"Getting The Love You Want" on advise of our MC. It has helped me see myself a lot better.
I know Harley isn't really keen on him but there are some very similar lines of thinking about how these A's develope. You're perfectly right and normal in worrying if contact will take place again. I was told there'd be NC the day after Dday but it continued every day for another week and a half. So far I feel good that there has been NC since 12/20 but there is always that nagging doubt. Emails have not taken place and cell phone records are clear but where there's a will...Just pray that she see's your efforts at making the necessary changes and be patient-very,very patient. Do the reading and don't force her to read or do anything. She'll come around when the fog starts to clear. John is right on target and there's many other wise folks that post here that will answer any question and offer all the support you need. It will get better. Also, if faith is part of your life look to Him if it's not I would advise you seek it out. He can open your eyes to yourself.
Good Luck!

WMU,
the first thing i would ask myself is do i really want to save this marriage? because getting it back from where it is now has got to be at least twice as hard as maintaining it in the first place...and look what happend to that effort! so here's the thing...are you really committed? 100% sure that this is what you want...because if it isn't why put yourself throught the pain?

now if you decide to walk this road do you realize that you may have to walk it alone for a while...until your WW decides to really get with the program? are you prepared to be as "hard" as may be required? look, love is wonderful but what we're talking about here is hard work...

so here's the thing. if you decide to go forward then i would ask my WW for at least this much of a token committment:

1. to account to you for all of her time away from you.

2. access to all her e-mail accounts, V/M accounts, any PO Box she might have, all cell phone bills...everything...no privacy at all!

3. she must write a no contact letter. not of the loving good by variety either! the "i made a fool of myself" variety and "never call, write or contact me in any way" variety.

4. she must tell it all...everything...openly and honestly...and not becuase you want to be vindictive and embarass her...but because her saying it out loud will make her listen to herself while she's looking at you...seeing your pain and hearing herself cause it!

5. she must do these things not as punishment but because there has to be a penalty for what she did. because if there is no price to pay, then it's just not all that important so why not do it again?

i know i sound like a hard @ss and many here will disgaree but this is the way i see it.

coach

Thanks for the input. I've visited a shrink with marriage counseling expertise yesterday. He kind of put some things in perspective for me. Now my w and myself are both going seperately. My worry is they just want us to be civil/friends for the divorce(for the kids sake)and not try to help rebuild the marriage. I'll find out more at next weeks appointment,
But basically I need to figure out what I want to do with my marriage. Even with all the pain I've gone thru lately, I still love my wife. (I don't know how). The main thing for me is my 2 wonderfull children. I just can't imagine not being able to see my daughters (1yr old)smiling face every morning or the Hugs/kisses I get from the both of them when I get home from work.

I still get no reading on my wife. She's like a stone, no emotion, no love. Which makes me wonder if she's really going to try to make this work or she's just delaying the inevitable.
I'll keep you posted.

You said you still love your wife and you dont know how - well I am in the same boat my friend. I dont even have as much detail on my wifes affair as you but I know she is having one - I think you posted on my post (thks).

I am not sure if I would listen to those shirnks. Staying friends through a divorce is not what it is all about. I am hoping to save my marridge but first I hope to find a way to get my wife to tell me the truth. Other wise I may feel a need to read her email for the rest of my life.

But I do love.

I meant to say I still love her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Get tested for STD's as soon as possible and your wife as well.

To all the people on this board. Most of of you probably have gone or are going thru these problems already. Did you ever think why me?
Most of the people on this board wouldn't be here if they didn't care. Probably good people. Its just sad that there are that many of us who are in great pain because of someone else's actions. It sucks. I hope my weekend brings good results in the turnaround of my marriage and I hope it does for every else.

I think a lot of us think why me. I have for some time now, but am finally getting beyond that point but not without a lot of time and hard work. My WS still work with the OW so I have no way of knowing if they have contact. Thats the hardest part for us, not knowing the truth or trusting what they tell you. I hope you have a good weekend

WMU,
did i ever ask why me? LOL i used to shout it to the moon..out loude..till my throught was sore and i lost my voice! but you know what? i never got an answer. NEVER!

hummm, so though it took me a while, i finaly figured out (DA...me not being very bright you understand) what i had to do. i had to go on with my life and survive...do more then survive...learn to be happy again.

by the way. not a bad solution to a terrible problem as i soon found out. and guess what? as soon as the bitterness began to abate...so many good and wonderful people suddenly wanted to know me. what a surprise.
coach

WMU, I too know about my wife's affairs, from her e-mails and phone records. But, I'm stalled at what to do about it - each time I think about confronting her, I chicken out. I have 2 kids and can't stand the thought of divorce and not being able to see my little girl as much. One thing that amazes me is how many people there are in similar situations, as evidenced by this msg board. At least we're not exactly alone! Good luck to both of us.

Alann,
Yeah, seems like alot it going on. A little advise, Don't chicken out, the longer it goes on the worse it gets. If you can stop it before it gets out of hand, you have a much greater chance at surival. I waited to long, I think its a dead issue now. At this point, I realize she don't care, so I have to take care of me.( and my kids)
Take care of youself, she's not thinking of you or your child. Its not easy. Its problably going to be the worst thing you'll ever deal with but you must. If you don't, you'll soon start to feel bad about yourself and It makes the whole senario that much harder to deal with.

Help,
I found out she's still talking to him. I knew something was going as she was very distant and cold. I told I know She said its the "new" her. I didn't buy it.
I can tell when she lying. Since she said she wanted to try to fix this, this just added to my frustation and anger. My therapist agrees I have a lot of anger which I am working on. I usually don't let it show but I do clam up instead of blowing my top. We'll that all ended as I taped the phone again and heard all the stuff I figured to be true. I also found out that no sex was involved( yet). Still it was disturbing to here that she still talks to him, because she's still lying to me. She's still emotionally attached to someone, which leaves me locked out. That's the real reason for her coldness and quietness.
This is now strike three ! I don't know what to do, and i guess if I didn't have the children I'd be gone. I beleive the saying is once a liar always a liar.
We have had it out the last few days, speaking of divorce and custody of the kids. She's scared that what if we try and it doesn't work. It think its all part of the game she's playing.
How many would still stick around? How many times can you get kicked before you give up?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How many would still stick around? How many times can you get kicked before you give up? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Some on this site have obviously put up with a lot more than either you or I have. Personally, I am at my limit. At the last MC session, I gave the ultimatum - anymore contact at all (phone, email, in person, whatever) and I'm filing for D. My MC recommended this step after the s**t I've been through. And I feel comfortable with the decision. I'm no longer willing to sit by while I wait for the As and the lying to stop. The ball is now in her court.

Your situation and your feelings will have to dictate how much you are willing to endure for the sake of your WW. I don't recommend ultimatums without the willingness to back them up. Have you considered plan B? That might shaker her up a bit. Right now, it sounds like your W is getting the best of both worlds. What do you think she'd do if you took away one of those worlds (i.e., separated with no contact except through intermediary)?

It's amazing the emotional beatings we are capable of overcoming...IF the spouse is truly remorseful.

It sounds as if your W isn't remorse...yet. Don't know if she will ever be. Too often, many don't realize what they've lost until it is gone for good. Sad but true.

What do you want? Do you still want to try and save your marriage? If the answer is no, then don't prolong it. Leaving with as much good feelings as possible is best for the kids and the continued parenting relationship. IF the answer is yes...then did you discover what type of counseling you were in? Was the counselor aware that you wanted to save your marriage? Was he/she aware that you were willing to really work on all issues which needed to be address?

IF...you feel as if the "dealbreaker" has arrived, that is perfectly ok. Some marriages should not be saved. Only you and your W can make this decision.

If...you feel as if you want to give it one more try or several...that's ok, too. There is no deadline in the sand, except for the one each of us makes. You can move it around, wipe it completely out, whatever. Up to you!

Good Luck, wherever you are heading.

ps...Dads have just as much right to seek custody as moms...if you do. And thankfully, courts are looking at which parent is capable of being the custodial parent instead of if one is wearing a dress. If you want custody, either totally, joint, or anything in between...do what is best for the children...not you...not your W.

You have 2 choices in that you can allow her to continue her affair and become part of her drama or step out this whole scenario by filing for divorce and showing her that you are not willing to play this game any longer. You cannot control her choices but you can control your choice to live or not live with a person who does not come up to your standards. I recommend that you read the book "Love must be tough" by Dr. J. Dobson.

Thanks for your responses. Things have calmed down the last 2 days. We actually had a good evening last night were we able to actually talk about anything( not our problems). It was nice.
Then I a wake in the middle of the night and I start thinking of all the things that have gone on and I tell her in the morning that I don't think I can do this. It actually turned out to be a good conversation(because I can now communicate my feeling) and were still going to do try to do fix this. I guess my change of heart came because for the first time in a long time asked me what was wrong and if I was OK. Its a big improvement from the last few months.
My one problem is going to be her stubborness on she does not realize the pain she has caused me.
Problems or not, she should not have done what shes done. My big issue going forward is she doesn't not feel guilt or remorse for what she's done. Its not that I want that, but its her selfish attitude. Or maybe she's still not being honest about her true feeling for the om and doesn't know what to do.