I am re-posting a thread that was originally started in the EN forum. Unfortuneately, due to recent developments this forum is a better fit.

Here is my story. We have been married for 12 years, dated off and on for six years prior. I (H) am 34, W is 33. We have three children, boy-12, girl-10, boy-6. I grew up with an angry father and have repeated the cycle of angry outbursts in my marriage.I have never physically abused my wife or children but verbal abuse was the norm.

My W returned to work in Sept. after 3 yrs. as stay-at-home-mom. On Nov. 6, just prior to leaving on vacation, I had an angry outburst (AO?) directed at my daughter for something trivial she had done. W basically broke down at that point and told me she was tired of living like this. She said she did not love me anymore and didn't think she ever would again (major withdrawal, I think).

We went ahead with the vacation, but after we returned W said she wanted out of the marriage. I asked her to stay, for the kids if nothing else, and to go with me to counseling. She agreed not to separate but refused to go for counseling. We continued like this for about 2 weeks.

I was absorbing all the information I could get my hands on, including info on this sight, and finally realized what I had been doing to my family. I had some material on CD that I asked her to listen to with me and she agreed. After listening to the CD, I told her that I was truly sorry for the way I had been treating her and that I knew I had not been meeting her emotional needs as well. She told me that she didn't want me to meet her needs and that the newfound insight I had would make me a wonderful husband for someone else, but as far as she was concerned we were finished.

She went to town for what should have been a 30-45 minute trip and was gone for over three hours. I truly thought she had left. She finally called and told me she had ended up at our pastor's house and had been talking to him and his wife.

This led to us beginning marital counseling, but after initial separate meetings, our pastor became ill and has not been able to continue the counseling. W says she will not go to anyone else for counseling.

I have been in counseling for my anger since early Dec. and, Praise God, I have not had an AO since. I am also attending a weekly support group which has helped me deal with my anger as well as cope with the marriage problems. The relationship to this point has been improving slightly, but I was noticing a similarity between descriptions of "the fog" on this site and the way she was acting.

Yesterday I discovered two text messages from her supervisor on her cell phone telling her he loved her. I confronted her and she admitted to being emotionally attached with some hugging and kissing. This explains the "fog"-like symptoms I have been noticing. She says the A started right before Christmas, but I believe the foundation was being laid much before and is what lead to the initial crisis.

I managed to make it through last night w/o LBing. I was very supportive and non-judgemental. She says she has no desire for the A to be a permanent relationship or lead to anything more physical. I want to believe her. She is considering moving out, but I asked her to stay to work on the marriage. We'll see what she has to say tonight.

We discussed how OM was meeting needs that I had been neglecting. She agreed to fill out the ENQ and LBQ, but said she still doesn't love me or want to work on the marriage. We also discussed how this relationship will adversely effect her job.

I don't know if she will push for a separation or not. If she wants a separation, should I be the one to move out?

I guess I am officially in plan A now.

What do I do next?

G.

Yes, Plan A is where you should be. Otherwise, any part of the following that you have not yet done, do. Gary Smalley's "If only He Knew" is really good, too, but it sounds like you have already had the "Aha!" experience it often brings. The OM is a serious impediment to your recovery, and one of the reasons she does not want you to meet her needs (and won't be receptive to your efforts when you do), so at some point, she will have to leave that job. A good counselor will get her to see that. I don't know if she can accept that message from you, because of your history of anger. If you insist she leave it may be seen as more controlling behavior. Reading SAA together may help, if she was willing to do that.

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

GD-
Don't have much time now but I'll talk some more tomorrow or tonight if i can. I could have written your post. Incredibly similar.
Do not leave -repeat- Do not leave. Nothing can progress if you're not there to help work on this. Read the basic principles on this site.
You're going to need to relax and hold on because the next few days will be rough. The advantage you have is that you've already begun working on your own issues. Knowing/realizing you have contributed to the A helps but not much. Find another MC if only for yourself and you might want to see your Dr. for some meds-you'll need your sleep. Try to help her see how important it is that she stay home too, if only for the kids right now. She is so deep in the fog that it will be impossible to make progress right now. Keep strong, pray alot and don't leave! I'll say some prayers. You'll get through!

G,
My story is VERY similar to yours. Some differences of course, but the root is there. Wife wants nothing to do with marriage or fixing our problems. She just wants out.

I don't have a whole lot of experience, I still feel like an infant in this whole thing. But I can say that if you start working on you and your issues things will beging to improve. Maybe not in your marriage, but in YOUR life. You have to look at it this way. If you make the changes you know you need to and she stays then that's great. If she doesn't stay then you still have to live with yourself, and you might as well be happy with the person your living with!

Just my 2 cents, probably only worth 1 1/2, but o-well. Good luck to you and keep coming back here. This site has helped me on my worst days, people here will help you get through.

Thanks for the replies. One thing that is going to be really tough is that W and OM are in a sales position and spend alot of time alone together traveling locally. This A will probably not end and may escalate as long as they are working together and right now I don't see her changing jobs. Can I push for her to leave the A in plan A or do I just let it run its course?

W came home last night very depressed. She spent most of the evening on our bed curled up in the fetal position. I tried to talk to her but she wasn't interested. I asked about an important meeting scheduled for today that she had been excited about and her response was, "If I can't work with OM, I can't go to the meeting" so it sounds like she is trying to break it off.

I hope she sees that she will not totally be free of this until she breaks all contact. As long as she tries to work in the same office as OM life is going to be a nightmare.

I spoke to an associate pastor yesterday for about 1/2 hour. It was good just to talk to someone in person. I had a chance meeting with the senior pastor last night at church and talked to him for a few minutes. He is very supportive and should be well enough to resume counseling in a few weeks. This is a plus since he is the only person W will see for counseling. She respects him greatly and I know he will not mince words with her.

I have the books HS/HN, LB, and SAA by Dr. Harley as well as books by Smalley and Dobson. I am working on getting through them. I think my biggest challenge is going to be patience. I am a 'fixer' by nature and this is something I can't rush.

G.

NO! Do not think of Divorce as an alternative!

Kenneth Copeland profesied the spirit of Divorce is running like wildfire in the body of Christ. Divorce will detour your calling that Christ has called you to in the body of Christ in these last days, Jesus is coming so sooooon and you donot want that. Yes God can restore you after a divorce, but time is short, Satans warth is great, you dont want to be detoured.

Before I begin I'd just like to say I am a spirit filled Christian. God sent you your wife, he gave you his best, God created Adam first he was male and female in one, in the image of God he created Adam. He God took the female part of Adam out of him and made Eve(women) from the female part of him, the rib and the scripture says gave them the pleasure of one another. Too christians in a marriage with God as the Lord are strong. There is no weakness if they make the lord their source not one another. God did not intend for our mates to fullfil us once we are made one with them, but always to look to him. Where the other is weak the other is stong.

It is Gods will that you stay married to her and prosper exceedingly abundantly above all you can ask or think(this includes your marriage) according to the power that works in you.

Scriptually it is okay to divorce if your spouse is sexually unfaithful. Other than that it is not scriptual.Unless she is a danger and is abusing you, etc.

If you meditate on divorce, if you think about it continually, day and night, if you put it in your ears, in front of your eyes, listen to the wrong people(even christians) if it is an option to you, if it is an alternative. You will have one. I can Guarantee it. Absolutely Guarantee it.

The truth is you donot want a divorce. You hate divorce. Your flesh(feelings carnal man) wants one but your spirit does not.why? Why do I know this? Why am I saying this when I donot know you?

Let me tell you. The moment you confessed Jesus as the son of God believed in your heart confessed with your mouth. you were born again. Jesus dwells in you, promised you he will never leave you nor forsake you, that when you ask he will fill you with his holy spirit, and he will guide and bring you to rememderence of all that Jesus spoke.You have his spirit in you. This spirit is is incorruptable. "he fruit of the spirit is Love, peace, kndness, oodness,faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law"GAL5:22. Jesus said his word is truth, they are life and they are spirit. What is truth, the dictionarys meaning is "The highest form of reality that exist." Jesus is love, his word is love. Your old man has passed away all things are made new. The fruits of the spirit is who you are, it's your nature, you love to excerise them, you love, you havekindness,faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. But if you donot know this is who you are then you wont excercise them.Your spirit does not want a divorce, beacause you love Jesus so much, you love your wife , as Jesus loves the church and gave himself for her You want to give to her, you are gentle, kind, faithful, patient to her.You will lay down your life for her.Just as Jesus said no love is greater than that a friend should lay down his life for him. You donot want a divorce, you hate it because you love Jesus so much and he commanded you not to divorce so you want to listen.This is the truth.

I know it may seem hard to your flesh to say these , but I say your spirit at the same time loves to hear you say these things.The spirit is joyful when you speak truth. truth is the word of God.Your spirit want to run the race, and wants to run it ina way that you should win.

When you think of divorce, there is a disturbance in your heart, some people call it conscience, a tug some people call it a scratching. This is the spirit of God speaking to you. Wisdom speaking to you. Jesus said you are his sheep, you know his voice, you flee from strangers because you donot know the voice of strangers. This is truth Jesus said. satan wantsto kill and destroy your marriage, but Jesus came that you might have life and life more abundantly. Be sensitive to the spirit of God, ask God for wisdom, he gives liberally to those who ask. It is okay if you miss it, repent and get up, move and press to the mark. Jesus said no disciple is greater than his master, but with training he would be just like his master. Jesus your LORD and saviour is training you. Trust the Holy Ghost, trust Jesus.

Speak those things benot as though they were. When you pray, pray according to the word, believe that you recieved your prayerMark 11:22.

Donot make harsh decisions. Donot be moved by feelings( this is easy to fall into in a marriage), walk in the fruit of the spirit which is your nature, excercise your nature. Pray all night if you have to. Ask God to protect you from yourself, Put a watch at your mouth that you donot sin against him, arrest you in your ways that are contary to his word, give you crystal clear, eyes and ears to see truth.

One more thing,"seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added to you"(this includes a exceedingly abundant marriage).

It is more blessed to give than to take. Donot take anything from your wife. It is none of your business if she loves you or not. Your business is to love her. Give, Give,Give give in good times and in bad, give! love never fails.To give and love is your nature. This is want your spirit desires."Love the lORD your God, with all your heart, soul, mind, body and all your strength love your neighbour as yourself there is no other commandment greater than these."Give and it will be given to you, good measure pressed down, shaken together and running over shall men give to you.(men meaning man and women). I believe this is a secret to marriage close to days of heaven on earth. You dont try to love you have love. You already have it, it is who you are, the moment you were born again.Recieve it.

Finally,be stong in the LORD and the power of his might casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obiedience of Christ(the anointed one and his anointing).

Satan roams about like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.The righteous are bold as lions, the scriptures says. You are The righteous.You are bold. You are fearless. You are strong in the LORD, whom shall you fear? what can man do to you? Satan is under your feet. LOOK DOWN.

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