Cerri- I really like your post. I'm brand new here today(wish I wasn't here at all but...) anyway, other nice posters have gave me names of all sorts of books to read. Where do I start? I'm feeling kinda overwhelmed today by so much information. do plan A, no plan B, no read "____" .. no, I liked the book "_____".. So I I guess I just kinda need some help of where to start. I have limited time between two young boys at home, ages 2 & 4... so any help condensensing this wealth of information greatly appreciated. Real fast- married, 12 years, 1st phones calls from other woman May 2002-(denial on H part).. Knew for sure about A August 2002. At first he wanted me to just get mad and file divorce. I said no.. I wasn't holding his hand and doing this for him. That really threw him for a loop- he thought I would(the natural caregiver I am). His affairs are married women while he's traveling- but I think there's one close by now the far away ones are gone... He's in the fog, denial, I don't know what I want to do with my life state.. We are co-existing for the kids.. no fighting, no arguing, we play games together every night with the kids, together on the weekends, etc.. but no "connection".. We are sleeping in the same bed- but only sleeping.. Thanks for any insight of where to start on this journey.

Hi 2boysmom.... and welcome to Cerri's Infidelity Clinic!! Just Kidding, it's early, the kids are gone, and it's finally quiet here... makes me giddy some days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Cerri- I really like your post. I'm brand new here today(wish I wasn't here at all but...)

Well thank you and I wish you weren't here either!!

I'm going to give you my standard reading list of things to start with. These are by far the best available for dealing with infidelity. I'll also give you some links that talk about the effects of divorce and why it's so important to fight for your marriage.

First and foremost get Surviving an Affair, Willard F. Harley Jr. PhD, 1998, published by Revel. It is the best for detailing how affairs begin, how they should end and what you must do to recover your marriage. It gives step by step instructions and is told in a story format about a few different couples. You can order it from this site, just click the bookstore link above. They'll give you a better discount than Amazon.

I don't know if the current OW is someone he works with or a friend, but another book that is brand new and getting tremendous reviews is Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass, I think it's a 2003 publication date, and I don't know the publisher. I haven't read this one yet... it is THAT new, but I've heard very good things from colleagues in many different walks of the marriage saving business.

Ok, those are my two reccomendations for books dealing with infidelity. Here are some links that you'll find helpful:

What are Plan A and Plan B

Why Marriage Matters A review of a study of the effects of divorce on adults, kids, and society... has some other good links you might want to check out.


Considering that your husband has had multiple affairs rather than an emotional connection to one person, I would also send you to www.sexhelp.com which is Patrick Carnes site. Carnes is probably the world's foremost expert on sexual addiction.

I'm not sure I would say that your husband is a sexual addict, but I might be inclined to say that he appears to be addicted to the thrill of the infidelity lifestyle.

Well, that should keep you busy for a while!! If it's too much and you can't get everything I listed (I have 5 boys... 4 still at home, so I know what you deal with having little ones around <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) then at the very least, read the Plan A/ Plan B link and order Surviving an Affair.

Let me know if you have other questions, I'll watch this thread for new posts. If you post something here and I miss it, email me at help@saveyourmarriagecentral.com and I'll be back to check this out!

Cerri

Oh, one more thing... here's my list of things to ask a marriage counselor and why coaching might be a better option than traditional counseling. These are from my site, www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com

Questions to ask a M/C

Therapy or Coaching

Cerri

Hi,
I'm new here. i just put a post on the wrong "discussion" so i hope that i'm in the right place now. i am 39, married with 3 kids (9,8,5). i found out 2 weeks ago that my H had a 2-1/2 yr. affair with someone in another province. it started end of 97 and ended 2000. my discovery unravelled over 4/5 days. little bits of evidence were coming out - first i found a letter, then birthday cards, then pictures!!! how gross is that? anyway, i have experienced everything from physical symptoms to complete, mystifying numbness and ambivalence. now i think i'm getting depressed. i have no idea how i am going to feel from one day to the next. i have no idea how i feel about him, about me, anything. i keep trying to find stuff around the house - i have pretty much figured out what was going on in 1999 but the yr. 1998 is still unclear. does that sound insane? but i need to know. i need to know what i was doing while all this was going on. we are already in marriage counselling (we've needed it before!) but i feel like NOBODY really understands what i'm going thru. my H says he wants to go forward more than anything but he gets annoyed with my questions and backslides. i feel pressured to get over a 2-1/2 year betrayal in just 2 weeks. any comments?

You should really start your own thread, but since you are here, you will find my advice is much like Cerri's. To wit:

You can recover. Many people have. But, it takes time. Harley suggests 18 months to two years is "normal". Others suggest the length of the affair and the length of recovery are frequently close. To expect you to be "over it" and ready to move on in a couple of weeks is not even close to realistic.

This isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%, providing you do three things:

1.) Learn. Read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity Then buy and read “Surviving an Affair”, by Willard Harley, (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them.

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

thanks John

sorry, i have never been in a discussion forum before so i have no idea what i'm doing and i'm so impatient for replies that i'm not reading the instructions! i think i finally figured it out - i posted a new topic (is that right?).

anyway, thanks for your help.

Cerri and John. THANK YOU! O.k., ordering the book- I've already read divorce busters.. Sounds a little the same as plan A in the sense be the best you can be.. But I fell off the boat. IT's hard to not feel like a dog waiting for a bone.. just something.. Like he's the one who betrayed the family- why am I doing all the work!Of course I wasn't perfect in the marriage, but dang it-- I didn't run to into the arms of a lover!! Sorry to sound whiney. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm going to start Plan A.. I need to read more.. I'm a little confused. But anyway, my question is- how long should plan A go on? And how do you keep from feeling stepped on even more? Or just grow up- suck it up- and push all those feeling down? Direction please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thank you-- hope you don't get too tired of seeing me on these boards, but I really want this to work out- for me, for us, for the boys. Is it normal to almost wish he just died so there was just an "end".. Cry, grieve, and go on? Or am I really bad??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ February 12, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: 2boysmom ]</small>

Hi Currer- glad you found the right forum- "just found out". I waited way too long wandering my home and doing nervous crazy cleaning etc...before calling the doc and getting some Xanax- you might seriously consider that anti-d idea. Wanting/needing?? to know ''where the H*** was I when you were essentially leaving me and the kids-lying all the way to the curb as you went out the door for a rendevouz with OW......etc....." is SO natural. some find that knowing the details is worse- for me details are better- I can deal with and mull over FACTS-my imagination is a far worse thing for me to deal with. Here and in counseling you will find ways to get your answers and set some boundaries for rebuilding your Marriage. FOG your WS is in is the worst thing and lasts for who knows how long and returns for a visit here and there too-just when you think it may be lifting.....wham. It has taken a few months to have rational conversation about details with my WH- anger was his keyword- I clammed up and cried-never yelled-still don't. if you can get your WH to write to you and you can reply- some find that really helpful in getting the questions/answers out but with thought that can eventually lead to a live conversation about the writings. I can't get my WH to write on paper but he participates to a point in emails and on long ''captive audience'' car drives- you will eventually find something that works for you- keep at it. I searched over my calendar and put alot of things together that way- where we all were etc....I can tie the phone bills etc together with my calendar and find some answers that lead to more questions. Knowledge is power. the snooping/trust issue is difficult but you can't fix something if you don't know what broke it- I GET the part where my WH had withdrawl pains etc from the OW but being the BS is so overwhelming.......he OWES me the answers I need - we can't put US back together without discussion- painful to ask-painful to answer-painful to hear the answers for us both--but essential. welcome to the rollercoaster of serious ups and downs- your WH telling you to forget it-get over it-its over-move on or anything that sounds similar is just unacceptable CRAP-you did not make him have an A- his choice and he has landed you in a life changing chaotic mess- and he has to step up and work to fix it. In case you haven't read it 100 times already here you need to help yourself and take care of yourself- find a place to pursue some peace/meditation and heed the mice! Two mice fell into a bowl of cream. The first mouse quickly
gave up and drowned. The second mouse fought and struggled
until she churned that cream into butter and she crawled her
way out. I am that second mouse.

Hi 2boysmom,

O.k., ordering the book- I've already read divorce busters.. Sounds a little the same as plan A in the sense be the best you can be..

Dbusters has some similar concepts. Harley had good things to say about Michele Weiner-Davis after they presented together at the Smart Marriages Conference in DC last summer. I don't think she has as detailed or focused plans for ending affairs or for recovery. I'm taking her coach's training in April, I'll know more then!

Plan A is not so much be the best you can be (regardless of what you read here) it's a negotiating strategy to convince your spouse to end the affair. You do that by eliminating LBers, and showing that you understand there were needs you didn't meet and that you are willing to do so now. Plan A will not save your marriage
That's not what it's for. Plan A is the first step in a strategy to end an affair.

But I fell off the boat. IT's hard to not feel like a dog waiting for a bone.. just something.. Like he's the one who betrayed the family- why am I doing all the work!Of course I wasn't perfect in the marriage, but dang it-- I didn't run to into the arms of a lover!! Sorry to sound whiney.

You don't sound whiney. You sound like a faithful spouse whose been hurt by the thoughtless and cruel act of your husband. Affairs are probably the most painful and thoughtless thing one mate can do to another.

But anyway, my question is- how long should plan A go on?

Very good question. Willard Harley says, "Not more than 3 months for women." This is because it is very difficult and very painful for you, the faithful spouse. And because doing Plan A will drain your love bank... meaning it will begin to destroy the feelings of love you have for your husband. Once those are gone, you will have no incentive to work on the marriage when the affair ends.

Doing Plan A for too long simply enables the affair and causes you more pain. Three months TOPS. Some women can only do Plan A for a day or a week. It's just so difficult knowing that your spouse is intimately involved with another person. Plan A can be done in a letter. Do not make the all too common mistake of remaining in Plan A for too long.

Almost all affairs end. Most marriages that suffer infidelity don't end in divorce because of the affair, they end in D because the conditions that led to the affair are not addressed. That's what we do in Recovery. Recovery is probably the most important, the most difficult and the most overlooked and forgotten aspect of restoring your marriage. It's where I see a the greatest number of mistakes.

And how do you keep from feeling stepped on even more? Or just grow up- suck it up- and push all those feeling down? Direction please

The part of Plan A that is most often misunderstood is the need to be honest. You need to tell your H how you feel about the things that he is doing, especially the contact he has with the OW. You need to do this in a way that is respectful and non-judgmental, that is... in a way that is about you and how you FEEL. (feeling words...hurt, scared, lonely, abandoned...)

I really want this to work out- for me, for us, for the boys.

The very best thing you can do to make sure the affair ends and that your marriage recovers is to use SAA as your guidebook. Don't listen to advice that tells you to do Plan A indefinitely, or to avoid being honest out of fear of upsetting him. There are things you need to do that will upset him.

Use Harley's book and writings at this site as your guide. Posters here are caring and well meaning, but don't rely on advice here. It's not professional advice... simply that of others who are struggling (with varying degrees of success or not) with the same things you are. Your marriage is too important to take the advice of amateurs. Read Harley's work and use it like your life depended on it.

Ending an affair and doing a good recovery goes against every emotion and every instinct you have. You'll need to heartlessly shut off your feelings and listen to your intellect.

Is it normal to almost wish he just died so there was just an "end".. Cry, grieve, and go on? Or am I really bad???

No, just suffering. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

C

Just having a hard time this week.. Finding this website has been a Godsend, but it's also stirring all the emotions up again like it all happened yesterday. This has been going on for a long time. Suspcions about the Affair since May of last year. For sure about the affairs since August 2002. I thought we were doing better til last weekend a number block phone call came, then he disappeared for hours on Sunday... This week he is in another state on business. Not too worried, rooming with a guy from work in motel room, and lots of my friends who are in the same business will be there. But I never know anything anymore. I've ordered the book, but obviously not here yet(SAA) so, when he comes home on Sunday, where do I start. I've been reading Plan A, but it's kinda short on website. Really looking forward to book. I know he'll say he didn't see anyone on Sunday- get defensive, and the talk will go no where. Do I send him a letter stating that I love him, I want us together, I want the emotional and/or physical affair to stop now, and I need to know what he needs from me? Is it o.k. to do in letter form? With him not on the same page as me, so he's not following the "rules", our talks just go no where but the wrong way. He states he's in flux and just doesn't know if he wants to stay or go.

I'm also kinda in a bad position after losing my job, no new job yet in this economy.. I can't "kick" him out! He is supporting me and the 2 little boys. I already saw an attorney--because I was making so much money before losing my job to the hostile takeover of company, I will get very VERY little alimony.. I am looking for a job-- just far and few between right now. So, start with plan A in letter form and hope a job comes up before I got to plan B? One of the reasons I know I am so dang angry is I had a career job for 17 years- I could provide for me and the boys.. With the takeover, I was offered a job- little more pay, same bene's etc.. 40 miles away. Together we decided no.. let me be a stay at home mom, I didn't want to work in different town than my boys in, and he'll support me... I let go of my "security"-- my career job-- and BANG within 3 weeks, the A comes out and I'm left dependent on a WS! Grrrrrr.. I am very angry about that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I feel like he just kicked me while I was already down.. Because he knows I can't just leave.. He has the best of both worlds! I cook, clean, take care of the kids, the house, and he just runs to the arms of his lover whenever he needs his other needs filled in! And he knows I can't just walk out!!!! Dang this hurts.. O.k., back to painting my dining room.. keeping busy, trying to forget tomorrow is valentines and I know I'll get nothing- and I'm sure the other got something.. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Ending an affair and doing a good recovery goes against every emotion and every instinct you have. You'll need to heartlessly shut off your feelings and listen to your intellect. I need to read this every day Cerri-- I am smart.. I have to believe in me to make this happen, not the rollercoaster ride of emotions.. Thank you...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2boysmom:
<strong>Ending an affair and doing a good recovery goes against every emotion and every instinct you have. You'll need to heartlessly shut off your feelings and listen to your intellect. I need to read this every day Cerri-- I am smart.. I have to believe in me to make this happen, not the rollercoaster ride of emotions.. Thank you...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me know when you get the book. I can walk you through the process if you like.

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

Thank you Cerri- I will take you up on the offer! He returns from a biz trip of 7 days on Sunday. I have lots of anger knowing he saw the OW the weekend before he left. Do I just let it slide for now? Wait for the book? What is the best way to handle when he comes home after being gone a week. Have open arms? And dinner?? I need some direction prior to the book getting here. I really want to save our marriage-- this is such dang work.. Back to your quote.. back to your quote.. I am strong.. I CAN do this!! Thanks for any advice!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2boysmom:
<strong>Thank you Cerri- I will take you up on the offer! He returns from a biz trip of 7 days on Sunday. I have lots of anger knowing he saw the OW the weekend before he left. Do I just let it slide for now? Wait for the book? What is the best way to handle when he comes home after being gone a week. Have open arms? And dinner?? I need some direction prior to the book getting here. I really want to save our marriage-- this is such dang work.. Back to your quote.. back to your quote.. I am strong.. I CAN do this!! Thanks for any advice!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well they don't call me the Honesty Queen for nothing... (much better BTW, than being the Pork Princess... I was born in Iowa and have always been grateful that my mom got me out of there before becoming the PP became my college ambition!!)

So, you put a smile on your face. You spiffy up you and the house as your time allows. You fix a nice dinner. And then you hit him.... No, wait.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You tell him how you feel. Glad that he's home. Very sad and hurt that he saw her. You missed him. You're afraid for the future.... whatever your feelings are at the time.

But here's the thing, you need to do that in a way that is calm and respectful. Keep it about you and your feelings. If you need a list of feeling words, email me and I'll send it to you.

If you feel like you're going to lose your temper or say something that you know is a zinger, walk away.

Pleasant is the rule, but not pleasant as in lying about how difficult this is for you. Pleasant as in "with grace and courtesy." You can talk about how you feel gracefully.

Make sense?

C

Ok, one more question. If I confront him about meeting the OW, he will deny it. Lie, lie, lie... So, if I just have a "gut feeling" that he saw the OW, do I still say how much he hurts me? Which I know will just bring a response that I have no clue what I'm talking about and he never saw anyone this weekend, etc... Or if you don't have any "real proof" just be quiet. I feel like if I say something, I'm just setting him up to tell more lies-which he will. But if I be quiet, then in his mind he got away with it again... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2boysmom:
<strong>Ok, one more question. If I confront him about meeting the OW, he will deny it. Lie, lie, lie... So, if I just have a "gut feeling" that he saw the OW, do I still say how much he hurts me? Which I know will just bring a response that I have no clue what I'm talking about and he never saw anyone this weekend, etc... Or if you don't have any "real proof" just be quiet. I feel like if I say something, I'm just setting him up to tell more lies-which he will. But if I be quiet, then in his mind he got away with it again... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How much snooping are you doing? I wouldn't say it would be ok to bring it up if it's just a gut feeling. Being a rather intuitive chick myself, I would agree that your feelings are very possibly accurate, but to act on them without other evidence is accusatory. And like you say will just get you into the yes-you-did no-I-didn't argument.

If you can snoop and get hard info then I would say that would be the time to talk about how you feel. Of course, it brings up the whole question of HOW you know, and we'd have to talk about different ways to address that.

C

cerri,

i'm jumping in on this thread but i figured you'd be sure to be checking up on this one. my h and i are moving at the end of the month and i'm a bit nervous about finding a mc that will suit us as well as the one we're seeing right now. he was the one to get us reading hnhn which lead me to this site. i tried opening the link you gave for the "questions to ask an mc" but i can get it to work. if possible, would you be able to copy and paste it into an email and send it to my hotmail account? it's peter_amy@hotmail.com. it's likely just a problem with our computer and not with the link.

thanks so much in advance.

amy

<<<If I confront him about meeting the OW, he will deny it. Lie, lie, lie>>>

2boys,,,I'm not a professional, and I'm sure that Cerri can probably give you far more information on this than I can, but the lies are very common,,,,,when a spouse is having an affair, they live in a fog,,,I used to ask my husband how stupid he thought I was, anyway,,,,he EXPECTED me to believe the lies,,no matter how many he got caught in previously. the OW is like a drug,,,and like any drug addict, the WS will do anything he can to get his fix, including LIE THROUGH HIS TEETH. (ANYTHING to keep the other woman in the loop somehow). So expect it. What you want to do is STOP the affair so that he can come OUT of the fog, get his brains back, and get over the withdrawl he will almost certainly feel after it ends. Once this happens, you can start recovery by meeting eachother's emotional needs and intorducing (among other things) the rule of radical honesty,,,,when you do that, you may get more of the truth. I know that after my husband's 15 affairs, HONESTY became my number one emotional need,,,I honestly don't think i would have put it as number one if the affairs had never happened. However after the millions of lies, it became so important to me that when it was NOT met for many years, I ended up sliding into infidelity land myself. It was a vicious circle that we are only now, after nine years of h*ll starting to come out of. Cerri can correct me if I am wrong, but if you are not sure he met OW, it might just be safer to tell him you FEEL scared to death that he saw her and/or is going to see her again. Best of luck to you,,,,,and Cerri is right,,,,SAA is the BEST book on infidelity that I have EVER read,,,and I've read alot in 9 years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Holly

Thank you Holly. The lying for me is just so dang hard. It's like a slap in the face-- Duh- You don't think I don't know what you are doing when you said you were going to work- and you don't show up there for 5 hours!!!! I think this week which is about 6 months after finding out has been even harder than the week right after finding out.. I thought by now we would be working on our marriage.. I thought by now we would at least taken a couple steps forward, a couple steps back- but some steps. Instead- he's just moping around in a fog, saying he wants a divorce and is filing, but never does move towards one. I lost it new years screaming uncontroablly to get rid of the "local" woman.. NOW! (the other PA were on biz trips to married women) And I think he did.. He has never in our 12 years marriage seen me go off the total deep end.. I think it scared him. So from New Years to last weekend.. No weird phone calls, no time unaccounted for, etc.. Then bang- weird phone call, and he's gone for 5 hours- the day before leaving for 7 days on a biz trip.. I am just an emotional wreck this week. I can't think straight- keep from crying, one minute I'm thinking "fine- if you want the divorce- you got it".. then I see my 2 little ones and I just start crying again.. But seeing my 4 year old sit on the curb waiting for his daddy to come home while he's with the OW-- well that broke my heart and made me realize how screwed up this entire thing is!! I'm almost scared to have him come home-- I don't know how to "act".. I've never felt like this before.. Torn between calling it quits, and sucking it up and being strong, and just breaking down and sobbing.. So confused........ Thank you for listening..

You could be me, it's that scary,,,,it's totally amazing how SIMILAR affairs are,,,,have you listened to any of Dr Harley's radio programs?? They are very insightful about the BEHAVIOR of the WS,,,,,click on RADIO on the top of the page,,,,you will need REALPLAYER to listen, but if you don't have it, there is a free download of it there for you. Also, I know how against Plan B you are,,,,but for some people you end up with two choices,,,1) Plan B and LEAVE (after setting up a good Plan A and sticking with it for 3 months or however long you can manage, whichever comes first). or 2) Live in misery, with your husband having affair after affair, and never knowing if you're hearing the truth or not. I did that for 9 years, trust me, THAT DESTROYS KIDS TOO. The idea of plan B is that right now your husband is getting his emotional needs met by BOTH you and the OW,,,if he wont leave HER, then you leave HIM so that only SOME of his emotional needs are being met,,,,,this forces them to make the OW try and meet ALL of the needs, which they almost NEVER can,,,,,and the fog starts to lift. Believe me, I know it's tough to leave,,,for months before I left, my husband had an idea I was going to,,,,I didn't work, so I had no money, and he refused to give me so much as 5.00 at one time. I left with 30 cents in my pocket and went to live with a friend,,,,It's lasted 3 months, and he has now agreed to NC with ANY of his lovers. I go home next week. It CAN work,,,I know it's hard to watch your children cry, but remember you are doing this so that they WILL have a Daddy. Of course, there is always the risk that Plan B will backfire and he WILL want a divorce, but Dr Harley says that's extremely rare. I would read some more on Plan B,,,and also on the fog that a WS lives in during the affair. Everything you describe is so normal, it's scary,,,,,,,Holly