I sent my W an e-mail asking her to look and read MB’s site…really read, and understand! I copied one of the links that OneGoing created that was for new people to MB, that had several hyperlinks to help get you started. No, she is not new to MB, I have tried to look together with her…I have tried to get her to look on her own…we read the book “Surviving an Affair” together…but I guess she was just going through the motions…and not hearing ANYTHING!!!!!

Anyway, I was hoping that she would read, understand, and finally be my W again…hoping she would give up the EA/PA.

In the e-mail I wrote:
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I am asking you to take the time to read, and understand, because I do not like where our marriage currently is…I love you greatly…and I want to be married to you…I do want to have a full and happy marriage…forever (with you!)!
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(She’s having an EA and 1XPA..DUH!!!)

OK, so she read my e-mail and called me…

After talking a bit…I told her that I like OUR marriage, but I don’t like what OM is doing to it. Again she denied that there is anything going on with them!!!!!!! (I know better though!!!)))

here is what she had to say…

“There are a lot of things that I didn’t like either that I am having to deal with”

(Yes, I told her things…they are in the past… unlike her ongoing EA/PA…but here I am having it thrown back at me AGAIN!!!,)

She said to me…”Maybe we should spend some time away from each other…”

OK…might be good…and then again maybe not. She won’t admit to the EA/PA…how does she realize that is what is causing our problems???? That it is the reason that we are having problems??? I’ve tried to let her know that I love her…I just can’t have him be a part of MY marriage!!! All she could say is that “he is not going away…deal with it”. Maybe I should deal with it and go away….but I can’t!!!!

ARGH!!!!!!

I don’t know what to do…I have two girls to think about too (13 & 14 yrs).

As far as my history, it can be found under the post…” Is the Marriage Builders weekend worth going to? First time posting and I need HELP!”

I don’t know what to do,
WSD

Spending time apart is NOT the answer. Usually when a spouse says that, what they mean is that they want to be able to develop a R with the OP.... come and go as they please without you knowing or getting on their case about it.

Signs of Infidelity

Go to the weekend. Do everything you can to entice her to go.... Shopping close by? Whatever it takes. If she won't go.... go alone.

C

I did follow yo with another e-mail to my W…here it is:
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W,

You are getting mad at me for caring about you, and caring about our marriage!!!! Why????

The past few years of discussions (arguments) haven't been about US or our marriage...they have been about OM...can you see that??? Why are you always so defensive????

Our marriage is not going to grow this way!!! Don't you love me and want our marriage to grow???

Are you being honest about everything???

I am only trying to be the best husband that I can be, but I don't know that I can if you are not honest with me or if OM is in the picture...I think that I have been saying this for that past 2-1/2 years!!!

Know that I do love you...and I want to be married to YOU...but I do not love OM nor do I want to have him as part of MY marriage!!!

I love you!!!!
Rich
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Last night when I went home my W and I didn’t talk much. I don’t want it to seem like there was no communication…but there was very little (and nothing about us)…there was a little non verbal communication…when we went to bed she was touching/holding/hugging my arm, but that was about it (just lightly touching, not like she was truly holding it but was making an effort to make contact).

This morning as I left for work (she always get up to see me off and give me a kiss) I kissed her looked her in the eyes and told her…

I love you
(which she replied that she loved me too)
(I paused a couple of seconds)

I love and want to be married to you
(I paused again)

If you have ever lied to me, then that’s not right
(She knows she has!!! - She didn’t say a word…which is unusual…usually she’ll say that there is NOTHING going on between her and the OM. Or something defensive like that)

Happy Valentine’s Day
(Then I walked out the door and left to work)

I just wanted to keep all of you MB’s current,
WSD

Hey WSD....

I hope it's ok with you, I'm going to pick this apart a bit. What Harley books do you have? If you haven't ordered Surviving An Affair yet, drop what you're doing and click the bookstore link above. I'd suggest that you get His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters too as long as you're there.

Yeah, it's a little cash outlay... but your marriage is worth it!

Ok... here's my comments,

You are getting mad at me for caring about you, and caring about our marriage!!!! Why????

This is a disrespectful statement. First you are telling her how she feels. Instead it would be better to say, "You seem upset by something I;ve done or said, would you like to tell me about it?"

"Why?" is a really bad word to use. It implies that the other person has done something out of line and is a defensiveness trigger. It automatically puts you on opposite sides of whatever it is you are trying to discuss because the word by nature insists on a need to defend a position.

What you want is to explore how she feels and what she thinks... to do that ask things like "What is it about our marriage that is so painful for you?" or "What can I do to make things better here?" or "What would it take for you to feel good in our marriage?"

Can you see the difference?

The past few years of discussions (arguments) haven't been about US or our marriage...they have been about OM...can you see that??? Why are you always so defensive????

Asking someone why they are defensive will make them so even if they weren't in the first place!! Also, there's that naughty "why" word again.

And you are lecturing her in this statement. Any time you are trying to teach someone or insist that your point of view is more valid than theirs (or worse yet, the only valid POV) you are in the land of disrespect. (I know this, cuz it's my inner demon!)

Our marriage is not going to grow this way!!! Don't you love me and want our marriage to grow???

Sorry, but more disrespect here. It implies that you know what's right, what's right for the marriage, and the way to fix it. It also has a hint of a demand.... that if she loved you, she would see/do things your way.

Are you being honest about everything???

Ouch!

I am only trying to be the best husband that I can be, but I don't know that I can if you are not honest with me or if OM is in the picture...I think that I have been saying this for that past 2-1/2 years!!!

She probably is being dishonest, but to say that to her face is disrespectful. And once again you are lecturing.

Know that I do love you...and I want to be married to YOU...but I do not love OM nor do I want to have him as part of MY marriage!!!

Now THAT's an honest statement. All about you and not about her, her judgments, her priorities, her ability to make decisions.

I love you
(which she replied that she loved me too)
(I paused a couple of seconds)

That's an honest statement.

I love and want to be married to you
(I paused again)

This is good too... all about you....

If you have ever lied to me, then that’s not right

ACK!!!! Accusing and lecturing all in one shot.

(She knows she has!!! - She didn’t say a word…

Really, what could she say to that?

which is unusual…usually she’ll say that there is NOTHING going on between her and the OM. Or something defensive like that)

Ok, here's the rule. You can bring up something in the present... and you need to keep it about you. "I am hurt, offended, frightened, whatever, that you are going to (or that you did)______." Bringing it up again in any capacity other than to negotiate for change is abuse.

So, although you need to be honest about HOW YOU FEEL regarding her R with this guy, those are statements that need to be about you and your feelings. Anything that has a hint of a judgment about her morals, values, priorities...etc. is out of line.

If you find that you are arguing over the nature of the relationship, then don't go there. It doesn't matter if you call it a friendship or an affair. If it's painful and offensive to you, then you can complain (in the positive "I feel" sense) and ask (ASK) for change.

Happy Valentine’s Day
(Then I walked out the door and left to work)

Ouch.

I think you would get a lot out of Love Busters. The concept of demands and disrespect is new to many people. They are our natural instincts and they are reinforced in our society. Unfortumnately, the only effect they have on marriage is to make our spouse want to escape through the nearest exit.

C (a recovering disrespect junkie)

WSD:

What cerri said...

Also, don't underestimate the value of wordless affection:

"there was a little non verbal communication…when we went to bed she was touching/holding/hugging my arm, but that was about it (just lightly touching, not like she was truly holding it but was making an effort to make contact)."

She appears to love you (and she's said so). But she also appears to be a little afraid that you'll misinterpret her, or make a disrespectful judgement of her. Did you hug/hold her in return? You should.

"This morning as I left for work (she always get up to see me off and give me a kiss)"

This is significant. Don't let the significance escape you!

all my best,
-Qfwfq

Cerri,

You are so right!!!!!

At times the frustrations and emotions just get so out of hand…I have tried to be positive and create positive love banks…but sometimes it becomes so difficult not to just let the emotions fly!!! As the time passes (2-1/2 years) and it feels like there is so much “trying” that it does become frustrating!!! I know that my attitude/frustrations may be creating negative love banks (which is not good)…It’s just so hard to keep positive…especially when I really am trying, and it always end up complaining about my past (which I can not change…I can only make the future better!!!)

You asked about books. I did buy “Surviving an Affair” about two years ago. My W and I took turns reading out loud together, in bed at night. I’m not sure how much she really got out of it, because most likely I was the one with a need and wanting to read it…she most likely was doing it because I wanted to. (I know the I want)

I haven’t bought “Love Busters” but was reading some of it last night in one of our bookstores. I figured that when we go to the weekend we will be getting a copy, so I did not purchase it. I almost did , as a present for her parents, but thought that might be better for us to make that decision together (maybe after the weekend).

Thanks again…and keep the advice coming…I can use all the support that I can get right now…

WSD



PS Ahhhh….
Before I was able to post this to MB I found myself wanting to call my wife and apologize for my selection of words…to let her know that I didn’t intend to tell her how to feel.

When I went to call her I found that I did not turn it on this morning. When I turned it on, there was a voice mail from her saying that she loves me.

I called her, and told her, I didn’t intentionally not turn on my phone. I also told her that I was sorry for what I said…that I didn’t intend to attack her or tell her how to feel. (I may have said something about that I love her and do want to be married to her…) After a little bit she said “I know you know”…When she told me this, it was such a relief…I would have never have guessed that I would feel this way, but it was a relief, because I knew that it could be a start…a good start so we can finally “talk” and work on our marriage.
I now feel that attending the MB weekend will be a VERY positive experience…for Myself, my Wife, and our marriage together!!!!!

Oh how I DO love my wife!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks,
WSD

Qfwfq…

Thanks…I did put in about my wife touching me last night, because I thought that it was significant. There are many things that she does which says that she loves me (positive love busters). Getting up in the morning to give me a kiss goodbye (She is not a morning person!!!) Her touching me at night…a leg, an arm, etc..

Qfwfw…did I hold her in return? Probably not like I should have…I did touch her arm, and rested my head on her arm acknowledging her actions.

Thanks for reminding me that she does these things because she loves me!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WSD