SO I have been in plan A for about 6 weeks. On the surface everything is amazing. We went away last weekend and it feels like we are rekindling our love. One problem, he is still emailing her. There contact is minimal and not much is said. She has asked only once when they were going to see eachother again and he never gave her a response. The phone calls I am sure have pretty much stopped. But when he writes he still says I love you to her at the end of the emails. I have been monitoring the emails for 2 and 1/2 months. There is no sign of them making plans to meet. She is a little psyco at times saying things like she will never let him go and she will love him till the day he dies? weird. I dont see why he is not freaked out by some of them. Anyway he is unable to tell me he loves me yet? I will tell him and he will not respond to me. We have been making many plans for the future a trip and a new business. I told him I wanted to talk about the business one night. I told him that I needed to know that he wanted me in his future before I could commit to a business. He said one has nothing to do with the other. That the business is only about making money and that has nothing to do with us. I said ok so besides the business we are talking about plans for our future etc am I what you want for the future. He got pissed off and left the room. I dont get it. He is loving he sends me flowers, we go away for the weekend, we talk about future plans, he holds me, I catch him looking at me while I sleep. He always tries to rush home to see me. I dont know what to do. I dont want to share my husband anymore I am getting fed up with this. I did tell myself I would give it the 6 months and I have seen improvment but it is not fair that he is still talking to her. He doesnt commit to a future with her but he cant seem to do it with me either what do I do

dear lost-i am so sorry for the pain you are in. you are not in recovery because he is still in contact with ow. NC is absolutely essential. you however cant force this so work on you-do plan a for you and get strong. read all you can here and get ready. does anyone know of their affair??

he needs a dose of reality. the business has nothing to do with the two of you?? fog talk. tell him you dont want to be in business with someone so dishonest.

Hi Nikko
Yes there are people who know of the affair. How can this help me?

hurtandalone...I must agree with nikko...this is still "foggy", he's not talking without a lot of confusion.

As for the business...it is much more then money, it's building a future, while he may not be willing to admit to this, that's exactly what it is. Depending on what is involved in beganning this venture, I'd keep talking positively about it. I would not however put all my "eggs in one basket" until he gets a little more clear sighted as to where he is going.

It's possible that he is seeing exactly what you are seeing in these emails from her...not to stable...and that is one reason he's still emailing her. It doesn't sound from your post that he is giving her a lot of hope, but he is giving her hope even if he doesn't mean to be doing so. So many WS believe that they can "let the other down easy"...when in fact a clean break is the easiest in the long run. But this is NOT something you can control.

If you're a follower of Plan A, then stick with it. It does seem to work wonders, if it's a true change of heart on your part. If nothing else, you become a healtier person and a better partner.

There is NOTHING fair about any of this! If you're looking for fairness, you are NOT going to find it. Sorry, harsh but true!

What to do? Stick with your Plan A if you're comfortable with it. You said you do see improvements, altho, not as quickly as you would like. I think that is pretty normal. Keep your focus on what is good for you and your marriage.

Good Luck!

Hurt --

Back in January and before OW left for Australia, your H promised NC, gave his word to you. It still has not happened; you're still very uncomfortable with that, and rightly so.

I think your H is playing a game with you and your marriage. He's had more than enough time--not that he ever needed more than five minutes--to break off the contact and recommit to you. I'm sorry to say that the bright surface of your "recovery" is tarnished by his continued deceit and therefore is illusional and artificial. It's a movie set with no substance, all false fronts with no basis in reality. There is no recovery at this point.

This woman is a certified fruitcake and doesn't deserve being "let down" gently even in the best of circumstances. His loyalty to her and disloyalty to you makes your relationship structurally flawed at this point. Each of you is living a lie: you, H, OW.

I think you have to step back a few paces and really take a look at this. H is a cake-eater. He's got her and he's got you and flits back and forth between you two on a whim. Are you satisfied with left-overs and crumbs?

Whatever he got from OW that hooked him still holds the power here. As long as there's contact with her, you're going to get second-best. You asked him about your future together (a perfectly normal and important questions) and what response did you get? H storms silently out of the room! You tell him you love him; it's met with stony silence. Sorry to say that flowers and weekends away cannot possibly compensate for honesty, commitment, and substance in a marriage. For now, you're in a duplicitous and ultimately destructive relationship; it's all icing on a nonexistent cake. And the bottom line: you're not happy!

Guess I'm on a rampage today, but I'm disturbed that you are continuing to be hurt by him and seem powerless to change the dynamic. You said it yourself, "it is not fair that he is still talking to her." Exactly my point. "I dont want to share my husband anymore" -- Ditto! Then you said something even more telling, "He doesn't commit to a future with her but he can't seem to do it with me either" = Fence-sitting and cake-eating. He hasn't had to choose...up to now.

This needs to be about you for the moment and not so much about him. What are you willing to settle for? Make a list of what you would want out of this whole thing. Post it to us if you'd like. What do you need and want from H and from your relationship? I need: 1, 2,... write it down. Look at the list and memorize it. How can you go about getting these things. How can you make your relationship the way you want it to be, the way it can be? How can you best be happy?

You say you don't get it, but I think you DO get it. You are too sharp not to see what's going on here. You're really not being fooled at all, but you are scared to move on this because you don't want to "ruin your chances" in this supposed recovery. But they're already ruined because of H's continuing poor choices. At this point, your reconciliation is at best insubstantial, temporary, impermanent, ephemeral.

I do wish you well with this. I've been on-board with you since early on and I suppose I'm feeling a measure of investment here. I want to see this work for you. I want you to be happy. Please keep us informed. We really are pulling for you...

Ammon

Ammon
Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. I cant tell you how much I appreciate your help. I have not confronted my WH about the contact issue in about a month. As you know last time he lied about it. I was waiting to get proof other than the emails because I dont want him to know that I know the password. Well I got it. Yesturday the cell phone bill came in. It is in my name but he uses the phone. Anyway it was a little more expensive than usual. So I took a closer look. 3 calls recieved one duration 30 minutes, the next 80 minutes and lastly one for 70 minutes. Well of course there are the usual 3 and 4 minute calls home etc. But who else would he talk to for that length of time? I think it is pretty obvious. I am going to use this to confront him tonight. I am scared though. I know I deserve better than this. I guess I have been hoping that this would die a natural death. I like to avoid conflict and I often do it at my own expense. I am just so afraid of losing him. But I am miserable. How can he continue to do this to me? Help!

AMMON I need you again
I confronted hubby on the phone about the cell phone bill. He thought it was funny. He said he knew I would get supicious about stuff and he has accepted that when we decided to get back together. He told me I could think what I wanted because it would not matter what he said I was going to believe what I wanted to believe. I said that all I wanted was for him to be honest with me and keep to his promise. I am crushed. I cant tell him I know everything because he would leave me for sure if he knew I had snooped to that level. I guess I am doomed. He says he is happy with the way things are going and he doesn't tell me he loves me cause he doesnt think we are ready yet!Whatever. I dont know how much longer I can hang on. I need serious help.

Hurt --

You HAVE to hang in. As hard as this is (and it's immensely hard!), you have to be strong and know that you've taken the right path for you and your marriage. It's much easier just to "throw in the towel" and walk away, but it's not the smart way or the best way, certainly not for now.

You want and need to be able to say that you did everything you could do to make this thing work. You know that it takes two here; if H won't even try or be honest with you, you can't make work what you can't make work. There's only so much any of us can do. You want to be able to say that you've done your very best--that's all any of us can ask of ourselves.

H thinks the cell phone bill is funny, eh? H is "happy the way things are going," eh? H knew you would be suspicious, eh? Big of him that "he has accepted that when we decided to get back together." = all certified and predictable Fog-Speak. Nonsense that you're wisely not buying into.

What H doesn't realize is that you KNOW what's going on. As tenuous as your hold may feel, you've got a grasp on the truth. I agree for now that you don't need to tip your hand with the password stuff--keep that in your pocket for when that time comes.

"He told me I could think what I wanted because it would not matter what he said I was going to believe what I wanted to believe." = more garbage. It's all found on page 28 of the WS's Official Script. It absolutely matters what he says to you and what he does. Of course talk is cheap and he's got to walk the walk too, but empathy and contrition would go a long way toward healing these wounds. We don't see much of that from him at this point.

What we do see is H trying to put this all back on your shoulders...and it ain't working! Again, why you have to be strong under these waves of assault. The kicker: "he doesn't tell me he loves me cause he doesnt think we are ready yet!" -- wins the prize for Fog Nonsense of the Week! Shows how far emotionally removed from this he is! You know that's exactly what you'd like to hear from him and you're more than ready for it. But he'll keep in his pocket until "you're ready." C'mon, give me a break. We're not fools here and you're certainly not one!

Conflict-Avoiders often get in their own way, avoiding problems in the short run that come back to bite over time. Problems ignored are problems returning -- guaranteed. What you're doing isn't working for you, so try something different; this ain't gonna fix itself. We were hoping that the A would die a natural death and that still may happen. But I hear you losing patience and stamina: "I am miserable."

You want to know how much longer you can hang on? As long as it takes. Remember, we are never given more than we can handle. This is probably the most difficult thing you will ever be called upon to do. I believe that there's a reason why you are going through this, why it's necessary and important that you go through it. What a price to pay, right? And you don't even know at this point what the outcome will be--if it's all going to be worth it.

It is worth it and so vital to you. You are where you need to be. As hard as this is, it's where you need to be with it. Even if this all falls apart, you won't fall apart with it. You are bigger and better than your problems.

We'll help you through this as best we can. I'll check back in a bit and see how you're doing. Please keep in touch. We continue to be here for you...

Ammon

Ammon
Thank you so much. I love him so much but I dont know how much more I can take. I am a good person and I deserve better I know that. I wish I did not love him. You are right I am so close to giving up. I will hang in there for a little longer but I can only cry myself to sleep for so long. I am getting stronger. I dont know if I should go see a lawyer just to make sure I protect myself in case the worst happens. What do you think. I just want to run away. God help me.

I don't mean to interupt but I just wanted to add a little post here. Concerning your husband's problem with commital. I got busted a few months ago with OW. Was a fling deal. No EA at all. It took me all of about 1/2 second to realize what a moron I was and to recommit to my wife. I look at myself and go, "what on EARTH were you EVEN thinking about?" If your hubby won't do that for you then he either doesn't respect you and your feelings or he doesn't care. Either way, that's not good. I'm not one for ultimatums but maybe after the months of pain you've been through it's time for you to issue one. Sorry to interupt the string but I don't like seeing the guilty party using intimidation and quite frankly "head games" to justify poor behavior. I can't imagine how you are living through this because our lives here are really torn apart and we are BOTH trying. Good luck to you and here's to better times.

Hurt --

"I am a good person and I deserve better" -- Yes, you are and yes, you do! Later you said, "I am getting stronger." See, you've got a good head on your shoulders, but you're forgetting the immense wound that you've suffered as well as fighting with H's obstinate nature. A double whammy! A lot to bear.

Should you see a lawyer? If that would make you feel better, then go ahead, but I would think you're premature with that route. I don't see anything yet that would necessitate an attorney's advice or counsel, but I'm not one so I don't really know what one would say to you. Is H talking D? Are you concerned about protecting yourself because of something he's said? Why do you bring that up at this point? Not saying it isn't wise, just curious...

"I just want to run away." -- Sorry, not permitted (lol!). Where would you go? What would be solved by that action? Maybe some things would be improved, certainly the constant day-to-day tension and stress which is incredibly taxing. Would you consider some short-term, mild AD's (anti-depressives)?

Remember your "getting stronger" declaration? Good to keep that in mind. You're not where you were, not by a long shot, and although things aren't solved yet, you're moving on this at a normal and cautious pace. How could you make this better for yourself right now, today? What do you need right at this moment to help you feel better? = good places to start.

Ammon

H/A,

I just popped over from GQII and thought I'd share my 2 cents. Ammon giving you good support.

Since your H is at home and lieing, it might be wise to venture into a sort of testing mode. For me I did a couple of things:

1. Sniff the air and let my H know that something just didn't smell right. Never went into detail but whenever I suspected contact I sniffed the air .... or

2. Looked very sad and confused.... again for the same reason. oh yea, 1 more.

3. I even talked to the wall. While in bed, I turned to the wall and talked. I said I could not seem to speak to my H without him getting angry or not responding to my questions. Guess what??? The wall replied. We had a decent conversation and later H apologized for not being attentive.

In other words, you don't need to be carrying theentire burden of recovery. If you don't feel 'safe' in your relationship, let him know. How and when is important but it is also important to let him know. From what I read, your H sounds like a cakeeater and fence sitter.

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ February 18, 2003, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

I am not sure until when I can last. When is a good time to expose the emails or should I ever. I am sure he will leave if he knows I have gone that far. Do I wait to get some cold hard undisputable evidence. I just dont know. How can I live with such a lyer?????Help

H&A,

Did you read my post and understand it? What in there can you implement?

L.