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#422523 02/21/03 12:48 PM
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Due to a rather bizarre set of circumstances, I found out my husband has had 3 affairs (3 that I know of). A little background info: I'm 48, my H is 49,we've been married for 21 years (happily, or so I thought),we have two kids, ages 13 and 17. I guess everyone says this, but I had absolutely no warning signs. My husband is a successful businessman, doesn't travel, is a wonderful father and has been a great husband. He has always been attentive to me, our sex life has been great and we rarely argue. I'm at a loss as to how this could have happened! The affairs were all different. One was with a woman who was on a sports team with him (happened 14 years ago) and lasted a couple of months, one was with a co-worker (one of his employees) and lasted about 6 months (happened about 5 years ago), and one was with the sister of one of his friends and was a one night stand (happened about 4 years ago). He "says" it was only sex, no love involved and he is remorseful. I'm completely devastated. I thought because we were happy and had a good marriage that we were one of the lucky ones.......that this couldn't happen. Boy, how naive can you be? After d-day, he asked my forgiveness, begged me not to have him leave, etc.......all the things you would expect. I didn't have him leave, but we did start marriage counseling which we continued for almost 9 months. We've had many long conversations & shed many tears. You would think that after a year and a half, I would be starting to get over this, but I find it so difficult. I have good days and bad days, but it's always with me. The 100% trust in my marriage is gone, as is the way I look at my husband now. His behavior is so far from the man I thought he was. We all make mistakes, and although he's asked for my forgiveness, I don't think I'll ever be able to give him that. I'm still very angry at him, down deep inside and of course, hurt. I try to look at all the positive things around me, but my blood runs cold when I think of these betrayals. Any words of wisdom out there? I could sure use some.
Thanks!

#422524 02/21/03 02:05 PM
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LDP...From your discriptions of his affairs, I would have to agree that his affairs were the ones which didn't have a lot of, if any, emotional attachments. That is a plus...but it doesn't take away from the pain of betrayals.

As for forgiving H...you will more then likely find that you can forgive your H...while you will never forgive the act of betrayal. You love him, he's remorseful...and you can forgive the man, just not the act. But forgiveness too comes only on it's own time schedule. It comes on "cat's paws", silently in the darkness, and seems to suddenly just find life within our hearts.

The trust was broken, there is no way in which to go back and reclaim that trust ever again. But...you can go on towards conditional trust, guarded trust...trust which is based on today and the actions of yesterday, today and tomorrow. Not having 100% trust is GOOD! It keeps both of you on your toes! It takes off the burden of having to live up to 100%. We are all human and we can all fail.

We all have our individual timelines for healing. I do think that those of us who have been in long term marriages, where we have had maybe a little too much security in the years as they have gone by and we felt there were no betrayals, find it much more difficult to "move on". jmho That level of trust was built up over many years, it really doesn't happen overnight when we first get married, but from years of our spouse "living" that trust. You've had a serious blow to this as your marriage has been touched by three betrayals over a series of years which at the time you didn't know took place. This is very HARD!

If you're still dealing with a lot of unaddressed anger and resentments, maybe you and H stopped the MC too soon. I believe I'd go back for awhile and see if the two of you can work together to overcome this.

Good Luck!

#422525 02/21/03 07:31 PM
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Wifey 2002: Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your words. One of the hard things about this is that although they say infidelity happens alot, I don't KNOW anyone who is going through this. I have shared this with a select few friends, and although it helps tremendously to have that support, they don't know how I feel. No one does.....unless you've been through it. So, thanks once again! I'm just taking it one day at a time.
LDP

#422526 02/21/03 07:32 PM
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Wifey 2002: Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your words. One of the hard things about this is that although they say infidelity happens alot, I don't KNOW anyone who is going through this. I have shared this with a select few friends, and although it helps tremendously to have that support, they don't know how I feel. No one does.....unless you've been through it. So, thanks once again! I'm just taking it one day at a time.
LDP

#422527 02/21/03 07:40 PM
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Wifey 2002: Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your words. One of the hard things about this is that although they say infidelity happens alot, I don't KNOW anyone who is going through this. I have shared this with a select few friends, and although it helps tremendously to have that support, they don't know how I feel. No one does.....unless you've been through it. So, thanks once again! I'm just taking it one day at a time.
LDP

#422528 02/22/03 12:02 AM
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Dear LPD,

Although I'm newly married I feel your pain. I too had no warning and was taken totally off guard by my husbands revelation.
Just the other day my H and I were discussing the very subject of forgiveness and he was surprised and even disappointed to hera that I hadn't yet forgiven him after 4 whole months of knowing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Well after many harsh words and tears we've come to discover that we have different views on forgiveness. I tried my hardest to explain to him that there are certain things that I need to see, hear, feel etc. before I can come to the point of forgiveness. My words however didn't seem to register and he took them to mean that he needed to "prove himself worthy of forgiveness" but that's not exactly what I was trying to say. Well today it all came to a head and I turned to MB for advice as usual <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I found a lot of threads about the importance of forgiveness but nothing hit home more than the excerpts from “After the Affair” by Janis Abrahms Spring, PhD, that Spacecase was kind enough to share back in May. My H and I actually bought this book soon after D Day but it sat on the shelf unfinished despite my constant invitations for him to read with me. Anyway, I was able to read to him exactly the words I was trying to express all along. Now I think he finally "gets it", at least to the point where he sees my point of view. Below are a few of those excerpts that may help you better understand and articulate why forgiveness is far more than just saying "I forgive you."

Better Days,

CB

From “After the Affair” by Janis Abrahms Spring, PhD
Learning to forgive p. 238 (Excerpts)
If your goal is reconciliation, forgiveness requires restitution. Forgiveness is a two-person process; you can’t forgive those who refuse to acknowledge and redress the harm they’ve caused you-you certainly can’t have a vital, intimate relationship with them.

“True forgiveness cannot be granted until the perpetrator has sought and earned it through confession, repentance, and restitution.” - Judith Lewis Herman

A partner who wants to be physically and psychologically connected to you must work to win forgiveness through specific concrete behaviors. Unearned forgiveness, like unrequited love, reinforces the assumption that it’s your job alone to stay attached, that your partner doesn’t need to share the burden of recovery. If you have even a shred of self-esteem, you’re likely to find this a dysfunctional notion.

“While reconciliation may be a desirable outcome, psychologically, forgiveness has to be earned. To forgive people who do not acknowledge the injury, or even worse, rationalize their injurious behavior as having been deserved (or justified), is to sustain the injury all over again.” Robert Lovinger (Clinical Psychologist) in “Religion and Counseling”

The truth is, however, that you, the hurt partner, won’t ever forget how you’ve been deceived, whether you forgive or not. Years later, you’ll still be able to recall the exact moment of the revelation, and all the gory details of the affair. You, the unfaithful one, are likely to want your partner to forgive and forget so that you can move on to a peaceful reconciliation, but you can’t rush the process. If you don’t attend to the damage you’ve caused, your partner probably will.

When you forgive, you don’t forget how you’ve been wronged, but you do allow yourself to stop dwelling on it. Your hurtful memories are likely to stay alive, but relegated to a corner of your mind. You continue to see the damage, but only as part of a picture that includes the loving times as well-the ones that remind you why you’ve chosen to stay together. The past may continue to sting, but it’s also likely to teach come important lessons and inspire you to do better.

Forgiving, in short, entails conscious forgetting, which Jungian analyst Clarissa Pinkola Estes describes as “refusing to summon up the fiery material…willfully dropping the practice of obsessing…, thereby living in a new landscape, creating anew life and new experiences to think about instead of the old ones.”

Unearned forgiveness is pseudo forgiveness. It’s something you grant, not because your partner deserves it, but because you feel pressured to, either by others or by romantic moralistic assumptions about what forgiveness means. Given rashly or prematurely, it buries the pain alive, and robs you and your partner of the chance to confront the lessons of the affair and properly redress each other’s wounds.

It is commonly assumed that forgiveness is not just a gift to your partner, but a gift to yourself, in service of your best self, and that it imbues you, the forgiver, with a sense of well-being, of psychological and physical health. By forgiving “you set a prisoner free, but you discover the real prisoner was yourself”.

The idea that forgiveness is categorically good for you is popular both with the general public and with professionals, but it hasn’t held up under study. In fact, it has been shown in some cases to be anti-therapeutic, spawning feelings of low self-worth in the person who forgives.
“A too ready tendency to forgive may be a sign that one lacks self-respect, and conveys-emotionally-either that we do not think we have rights or that we do not take our rights very seriously,” writes Jeffrie Murphy in “Forgiveness and resentment”. Murphy goes on to point out that a willingness to be a doormat for others reveals not love or friendship, but what psychiatrist Karen Horney calls “morbid dependency.” My own clinical experience confirms that unearned forgiveness is no cure for intimate wounds; that it merely hides them under a shroud of smiles and pleasantries, and allows them to fester.
You may have been taught by family or religious leaders that forgiveness is a redemptive act-a form of self-sacrifice that good people make to their enemies. By forgiving, you demonstrate your compassion and innocence, and preserve, or create, an image of yourself as a martyr or saint.
Forgiveness by itself, however, is not admirable-unless, of course, you believe that silencing yourself and denying yourself a just solution is admirable. What you consider magnanimity may in fact be nothing but a way of asserting your moral superiority over your partner and freeing yourself from your own contributions to the affair. What you see as self-sacrifice may serve the larger purpose of putting your partner under your control, under a debt of gratitude that can never be fully repaid.

The problem with expedient forgiveness-forgiveness granted without any attitudinal or emotional change towards the offender-is that it’s likely over time to exacerbate feelings of depression and grief, and feed an underlying aggression toward your partner. Those who forgive too quickly tend to interact with false or patronizing sweetness, punctuated by sarcasm or overt hostility. The result is a relationship ruled by resentment, petty squabbles, numbness, surface calm, and self-denial- a relationship lacking both in vitality and authenticity.

A patient named Pat modeled expedient forgiveness when she put her husband’s affair behind her long before the two of them had examined its meaning and put it to rest. “I know Henry never stopped loving me,” she told me. “I don’t need him to beg for my pardon.” Eight years later, however, though Henry never strayed again, they were still stumbling over trust and intimacy issues.

As I’ve said, “making nice” settles nothing. If you want to pave the way for genuine forgiveness, you can’t sweep what happened under the table. You need your partner to understand your pain, feel remorse, apologize, and demonstrate a commitment to rebuilding the relationship. To heal, you need to forgive, but your partner must apply salve to your wounds, first.

#422529 02/22/03 01:34 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by just a wifey 2002:
<strong>LDP...From your discriptions of his affairs, I would have to agree that his affairs were the ones which didn't have a lot of, if any, emotional attachments. That is a plus...but it doesn't take away from the pain of betrayals.

As for forgiving H...you will more then likely find that you can forgive your H...while you will never forgive the act of betrayal. You love him, he's remorseful...and you can forgive the man, just not the act. But forgiveness too comes only on it's own time schedule. It comes on "cat's paws", silently in the darkness, and seems to suddenly just find life within our hearts.

The trust was broken, there is no way in which to go back and reclaim that trust ever again. But...you can go on towards conditional trust, guarded trust...trust which is based on today and the actions of yesterday, today and tomorrow. Not having 100% trust is GOOD! It keeps both of you on your toes! It takes off the burden of having to live up to 100%. We are all human and we can all fail.

We all have our individual timelines for healing. I do think that those of us who have been in long term marriages, where we have had maybe a little too much security in the years as they have gone by and we felt there were no betrayals, find it much more difficult to "move on". jmho That level of trust was built up over many years, it really doesn't happen overnight when we first get married, but from years of our spouse "living" that trust. You've had a serious blow to this as your marriage has been touched by three betrayals over a series of years which at the time you didn't know took place. This is very HARD!

If you're still dealing with a lot of unaddressed anger and resentments, maybe you and H stopped the MC too soon. I believe I'd go back for awhile and see if the two of you can work together to overcome this.

Good Luck!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

#422530 02/22/03 01:55 AM
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Hi Wifey. I am new here and you sound like more than just a wifey! You have a lot of good things to say. Maybe you have some advice for me. My DDay (still figuring out the anacronyms....) was June 2001. Through a very bizarre situation, I discovered that my husband was having 2 affairs at the same time. My H is 42. One with a co-worker in a different state/same company for 2 years...very sexual....very emotional(very serious....she is 36) and then supposedly the one affair ended and he began another with a woman 15 years younger right in his own office. The 27 year old actually called our home once at 3am crying for my H. He is the CEO of a large company and seemed to be on a path of self-destruction. H is very succesful and has a major drinking problem. That June 2001 was our 19th anniversary and I did not have one single clue that anything was wrong in our marriage. We had what appeared to be the fairytale marriage. College sweethearts, 3 gorgeous kids, everything! We have been going to MC for almost 2 years and I still just don't understand. I am so disappointed in him. I do not respect his choices nor do I trust him but I still love him. How strange is that? I often think that he has an illness. I think that it has only very recently dawned on him the pain that this has caused our entire extended family and friends. Our 2 older children know, it is such a mess. He claims to have started his serious affair because he felt that I did not love or appreciate him. He also thought that I was having an affair, which I was not at all. I just cannot believe that someone can live like that for 2 years lying to wife and 3 adoring children and to go to church, etc. etc. What do they think? He is in deep therapy now and discovering difficult things about his childhood. It is sad to watch. How can I have this compassion and love for someone who just cast me aside like trash. I want to leave him so badly but I just can't seem to do it. I love him, love our family, etc. but it is all so ugly. The OW was just suddenly fired and now I think my H is sad because he feels responsible for f'ing up her life as well. It is painful to observe. Also, all of the sudden, I have come to this painful realization that a lot of people know about this. I can tell by the way people look at my eyes. I am past the deep serious pain of the first year, now it is all becoming more clear and I am more of an observer these days and I am still in awe of this situation that we find ourselves in. One day I want to leave him and run away as far as possible and the next i want to stay and recommit and trust again. Did you experience this terrible ambiguity? I can't stand it.

#422531 02/22/03 11:26 AM
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CB,
THANK YOU for the excerpts on "forgiveness". I know I'm not ready for forgiveness yet. I'm working on it, but I think it's going to take some time. Right now, I'm scared to forgive him. I think he and I have two different ideas of what forgiveness means. To him, it means things go back to "normal". For me, I'm scared of "normal". Right now, I don't even want normal. Normal represents how things were.
LDP


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