I started some comments on another thread and was encouraged to move them. Here goes:

When is all of the coddling...and telling adulters, cheaters and those who have affairs...going to end? I am not trying to sound harsh in the least...just an honest question.

Adultery, cheating and having affairs is a HUGE character flaw. It is NOT the fault of the other mate! Short of beating someone, neglecting financially, endangering, when is adultery "understandable?" Oh....and EVEN THEN, it does not mean people should say "gee, sorry about your adultery, but your mate must have done something to make you do that!" NO way...that is a personal decision...and one that is being made more often.

Every mate is imperfect...has limitations...does LBs...doesn't meet needs perfectly...gets depressed...gets upset...etc. etc. Am I off base or are people on this site continuing this "gee, I am sorry you have had multiple affairs, had wild tantric sex, took unreal health risks, damaged your children, your husband/wife, practiced lying, harshly shared your feelings for someone you gave your body to, something you likely NEVER did for your mate who you promised it to, blah, blah, blah., etc. etc. etc....the list goes on......"...for a reason???

I recognize that everyone here likely has different religious beliefs...however, the Bible openly states that adultery is a sin against GOD and against your mate!! (1 Thess. Chapter 4) YES...YES.......it IS MORE SERIOUS then a mate being emotionally neglectful...it is more serious then a mate withdrawing due to stress or depression, it IS MORE SERIOUS than ALL of the reasons I see for people subtly condoning or "understanding" why some have had an affair ..or sometimes multiple affairs!!--those aren't my words...they are God's. And no one "forces" a mate to start sneaking around and giving their body to some creep.....yes creep...for sexual pleasure...that is a personal choice!!!!

In almost EVERY culture/religion worldwide...adultery is seen as sick, disgusting, wrong...and in some places, subject to death.

I am starting to seriously doubt the validity of the 'principles' here...innocent people are being damaged by those who can't control their emotions or their genitalia. Children are being damaged. Where is the sense of personal honor...of personal character?

Someone told me when my wife cheated with multiple people, while I raised our 3 yr. old son, that "she would do it again...run away"....I told them "no she wouldn't, she has learned".....guess what, she did it again, 5 years after letting her come home to us. Was that my fault? Give me a break...I am an AWESOME husband...and I know there are more out there...husbands and wives...

This looks to be a character issue. An issue of personal morality. I see an awful lot of coddling going on for people who commit multiple cases of adultery on this site...and I find it surprising.

When is it just an excuse to fulfill a person's filthy, dishonest desires? ...that is my question

--------------------
DazedConfused

M:August '87
Wife: PA 12/95, leaves me/3yr.old son, I get full custody
D:7/96
Remarry: 3/98
Wife: PA 3/02, ends PA 3/02, Currently begging to stay, son deeply affected....again.
Wife diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder

"Comparison is the mother of all discontent"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When is it just an excuse to fulfill a person's filthy, dishonest desires? ...that is my question
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My first gut reaction is always!...at least on the dishonest desire part. But, I do believe there is much more to it then JUST filthy, dishonest desires, unless your talking about serial ONSs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When is all this coddling....going to end? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've made no excuses for their poor #$$ choices. Doesn't mean I'm going to go all out and beat them over the head IF they are asking for help. Doesn't mean that they can't change...also doesn't mean that they will. I've lost my crystal ball...you found yours?

Just because I try to empathize with those WS who have indeed taken a wrong path, doesn't mean I ever tell them they had a right to do so. In fact, I've yet to see a poster tell a WS that they were right to go out and lie, cheat, betray.

All the other issues which might have factored into thier choice, may have validatity, but that still doesn't make it right. Your correct, no marriage partner is "perfect", no marriage doesn't go through good times and bad...yet, if there is a betrayal during a bad stretch, it's normally only one who betrayed...yet both were living in the same marriage. One took the wrong choice and harmed the other. There is no excuse for this...none!

BUT...If the BS wishes to give their partner another chance of redemption, even after several betrayals....THAT IS THEIR RIGHT TO CHOOSE! I would no more judge them for making that choice then I would judge you for making the choice you made. Each of us must walk the path in front of us...no one else walks it.

If that BS needs support....I'm going to give it to him/her! That in no ways means I am excusing or coddling the betrayer! Am I willing to give them the benefit of the doubt? Yes, I am....if their spouse who knows them a whole lot better then I do is willing, then who am I to say different?

Betraying may indeed be a basic character flaw and one that will not change unless the person is willing to do the hard work to change AND has the true desire to do so. But most of the people here who have betrayed...are here because they do want to change. They do want to get some support! They do want to learn!

Yeah, we can tell them what dirty low down sneaky @$#holes they are...but what does that accomplish? Are they going to stay and listen? Are they going to learn anything from this type of "help"? Are they going to stick around?

Beating a dog only makes it avoid you...praising for good actions and showing them gently a new way of thinking and looking at issues...just might work a little bit better. Being forceful when we see them making mistakes, but not bashing them over the head with their past.

But that's just my humble opinion...and one I plan to stick with!

I'm willing to agree to disagree...peace.

I am so sorry to hear of your situation. I do understand how much you have been hurt and how much your W has harmed you. There is no excuse for her actions. They were wrong, we all know they were wrong and had nothing to do with how great a H you were or were not. She made the errors...not you!

I really feel the same as DazedConfused does. And most likely he is as angry and hurt as the rest of us, if not more, for he opened his heart, let her come back into their lives and she did it again.

It's like that saying "Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me".

But I can also see the points that Just a Wifey makes. It is each persons own personal decision to let the WS back into their lives or not. That is just a risk you take if you are willing.

A month or 2 before I found out about my H affair, I found out my friends H cheated on her. I couldn't see how she could even want to try to work things out with him. But I didn't persuade her either way. When it happened to me, I learned my lesson that it is each persons own personal decision to let the WS back in. Nobody can make that decision for you because you live your own life.

But daily, I roll my eyes at the "excuses" and justification I hear coming from my WH. Where were his morals? Where is the man that I thought I married? I had just as many issues in our relationship but it never even crossed my mind to go outside of the marriage to find whatever it is that I thought I needed and wasnt' getting. One thing that this has done for me in a positive light is that I feel like I am a great person with high morals, knows right from wrong, and has honor & integrity. I will not let my WH make me think that this is in any way my fault.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DazedConfused:
<strong>I am starting to seriously doubt the validity of the 'principles' here...innocent people are being damaged by those who can't control their emotions or their genitalia. Children are being damaged. Where is the sense of personal honor...of personal character?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe it's here in abundance.

To answer you topic question, "When is adultery a poor excuse?!"

Always.

But, what you may be perceiving as "coddling" of infidelity here is the approach that infidelity can be "cured." In very many respects, it is a disease, not unlike drug addiction. Would you have alcoholics and drug addicts denied the opportunity to "heal?" Let's put them all to death! An easy solution, right?

In your case, yep, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. But, you have the justification to end it all. Do it, if you see fit. NO ONE here will blame you.

But if you choose to try to save your family, we will help.

It's all your decision.

Make one.

Oh, and you are not likely entirely innocent. This is one of the "principles" here that you lash out at. Take a long look in the mirror before you make any decisions. If you can find no fault, we cannot help you.

DC:

Haven't heard from you in a while. How you doin?

As to your post: Who cares? Just this morning, I repeated something I said to my W a month or so ago. Sort of a reverse babble comment:

Qfwfq: "I am solely responsible for you having an A. I am responsible for everything that is wrong with our M. You deserve all the credit for everything that is RIGHT with our M. Does that help?"

she came to my defense both times, though the second time (this morning) it was recognized as a sarcastic response.

My W still doesn't "regret" having an A. That almost finished off my desire to work on our M. Almost. But I've been told that it's "always darkest before the dawn" and so I'll wait and see if there's any light on the eastern horizon anytime soon.

We're all still people when this is finished. At least until they put us in the ground.

ol' Qfwfq

Dazed,

I can only imagine your pain. My thoughts are with you.

Character issue? We are only human...made by God himself.

When is all of the coddling...and telling adulters, cheaters and those who have affairs...going to end?
Do you mean coddling of the wayward spouse or the betrayed spouse?

it does not mean people should say "gee, sorry about your adultery, but your mate must have done something to make you do that!
You're correct, it doesn't mean that.

I am starting to seriously doubt the validity of the 'principles' here
Why? Nowhere on this site will you find anything that says it is the fault of the betrayed spouse. Nowhere on this site will you find any principles that tell you to stay married or get divorced. Simply that you should understand what has/is happening and to NOT make decisions based on reactions to a situation and to learn how to act/react to situations.

And no one "forces" a mate to start sneaking around and giving their body to some creep.....yes creep...for sexual pleasure...that is a personal choice!!!!
That is almost exactly what MB principles tell us.

When is it just an excuse to fulfill a person's filthy, dishonest desires?
I'm very confused as to what you are trying to say here. When is what an excuse? People have affairs because we coddle them here?

Angry & upset over it all? Sure, we all have been there and lashed out at others. But don't make a decision based on anger. Do it because it is what you need to do.

<small>[ February 27, 2003, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]</small>

and what would you say of a woman or man who's spouse was very highly suspect of cheating. Always lying, even about little things...denying everything even when hard core proof was in hand and then making up some pathetic lie. And this goes on and on and on. Then said spose starts working with the opposite sex more and all of the sudden sex stops. And to top it off,the only thing the suspected ws ever did in their freetime was sexually chat online with members of the opp. sex and even send their nude pix in return for theirs. Despite all the begging and crying pleas of their own spouse to stop.
And the lying spouse goes on some extended buisness trip. And there's all kinds of unaccounted for time. And unaccounted for excess money being spent. And that spouse calls home every so often, usually to cover up and lie about what that money was going to.

What would you say about this left behind spouse if they daily felt like such an idiot...putting up with this. When everyone told them to leave because they couldn't believe they were still there....that spouse, who knows in the bottom of their very gut that they are being cheated on and lied to and manipulated....

what if they cheated? what if they got so plastered they didn't even remember their own names barely, and went through with it...just to stop the pain and the nagging voice in their heads "you f*cking chump"...to feel that they somehow even the playing field...just so they could stop beating themselves up and stop all the pain everytime they tried to make the marriage work, because now...(albiet childish) they were even.

No, I did not cheat, though I used my story as an example. Even though I have been cheated on, many times in my life, and utterly betrayed, I honestly think I could forgive someone for adultry for this reason.

<small>[ February 27, 2003, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Epiph0ny ]</small>

No, I did not cheat, though I used my story as an example. Even though I have been cheated on, many times in my life, and utterly betrayed, I honestly think I could forgive someone for adultry for this reason.
Are you saying you could forgive your spouse if he had a drunken silly, one night stand after you had cheated and lied many, many times?

Getting drunk does not make it right.

Ephiphony,

I have been that spouse. I have not cheated.....I won't ever cheat.

Sorry...no excuse. I KNOW the nagging pain...but I refuse to surrender my honor for my wife...or anyone else for that matter.

Sexual intimacy should be reserved for people dedicated to one another....going outside that arrangement is gross.

Chris,

To answer your posts in both forums:

I don't buy into the thinking any longer ...where people come on this board and claim how unhappy they were.....so they were driven to adultery.

I don't buy it...and I think people are using their unhappiness as an excuse to fulfill selfish desires...they ruin the lives of all those around them...mate, children, family...then say "oops, sorry...you should have met my ENs"......and everyone celebrates their comments.

Adultery is not taken seriously enough by the perpetrators....they just do it....and MAYBE face the music later on...or do it again when they are unhappy......then roll out the "oops, you weren't meeting my ENs well enough".....it is ridiculous and insulting.

I am not angry.....I have been going through this for so long myself...that I have grown completely numb to it. Nothing would shock me anymore...nothing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DazedConfused:
<strong>Chris,

To answer your posts in both forums:

I don't buy into the thinking any longer ...where people come on this board and claim how unhappy they were.....so they were driven to adultery.

I don't buy it...and I think people are using their unhappiness as an excuse to fulfill selfish desires...they ruin the lives of all those around them...mate, children, family...then say "oops, sorry...you should have met my ENs"......and everyone celebrates their comments.

Adultery is not taken seriously enough by the perpetrators....they just do it....and MAYBE face the music later on...or do it again when they are unhappy......then roll out the "oops, you weren't meeting my ENs well enough".....it is ridiculous and insulting.

I am not angry.....I have been going through this for so long myself...that I have grown completely numb to it. Nothing would shock me anymore...nothing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">D&C,

Adultery is ALWAYS a poor excuse. Just like all the other crimes again God and humanity. Whether you believe in God or not, this is evident.

IMHO, your assessment that MBers believe that some were driven to adultery is not accurate.

What we learn is sometimes (usually do to no intentional fault of our own), some of us lack in good relationship skills. But the blame factor that the WS and OP lay on the BS is way out of balance.

NO BS and family here deserves to be mistreated as they are while the A ravages on in their lives. The WS babbles about how reasonable it is to blame everyone else, how they never loved their spouse or family, met a soul mate, etc.

That is babble. HOw to treat it? Don't make plans on it and don't put your life on the line for it.

The difference between those who hear about an A vs being in the midst of it is vast. Most of us here never thought we would be affected this deeply and probably never thought we would have hung on this long.

NOw why do we? My thought is that the A throws the BS for loop. When I first came to MB, my experience made me feel as if I was in a dark room filled with obstacles all around me, I was clutching my child in my arms and in order to stay alive, I had to navigate in the dark, with no light visible. If I fell, my child fell, I could not let that happen. All around me I heard laughing from the OW and WS, my child was scared and so was I. I felt alone and abandoned. Yet I was not about to give up on my M. This made me angry.

Later I realized that even though my mind told me to let go (like many around me were telling me to), I just couldn't. Why not? It certainly was not logical. Why? Because my heart would not let go. There was a battle in my soul between my heart and mind. This contributed to my anxiety attacks. There was nothing I could do to force my heart to be like my mind. It was something I had to come to terms with in my own time.

I posted here and read a lot. I journaled and tried so hard to find an equidable ground in dealing with my H but my heart often caused me to LB. My mind was furious but helpless. Driven at times beyond belief, I began to see how strong the heart can be. I needed to stay on top of things. My child depended on me and I depended on me.

Though the darkness, I groped my way......soon my heart started to listen to reason. I prayed for a clear mind and a calm heart. In time my heart calmed down and my anxiety attacks subsided.

When the mind and heart where in unison, I was able to move forward with greater confidence. I took bold steps and shook the A world.

We all have this ability within our grasp. We just have to know how to use it.

That is why I post here to pray for a clear mind and a calm heart. I also know that even another MBer can not push a BS to give up, if the BS is not ready. Just like walking and riding a bike, it takes time but when it kicks in, you don't forget.

JMHO,
L.

I had no idea that there were so many sanctimonious people here. I guess the narrower a persons mind the broader their statements. I had an extramarital affair and I have NO character flaw. Rather, I have spent 11 years married to a woman who, at one time, I loved but who has ruined me and wrecked our marriage by her systematic neglect of me, emotional abuse, selfishness, incompetence, inability to cope, unwillingness to attempt to cope, misplaced resentment, indifference, emotional and physical weakness and sloth. I have foresaken my own happiness for years and have stayed with her for the sake of our 3 kids whom I adore. I work extremely hard and am a wonderful provider for our family. Now that my wife knows about the affair she has done a 180 and is trying to be the wife that she could have been and should have been all along. I admit that I'm not proud of being an unfaithful husband and that infidelity is not the solution to marital problems but when you're married to someone who makes clear that she couldn't care less about you and that you're nothing more than a meal ticket it's pretty tought to feel good about yourself. In my case, I met someone with whom I had an emotional parallel and, in a state of emotional distress and anguish I fell in love with her. I can't have her though because my kids are young and need my wife and I to be together for them. My heart is broken and I am ruined as a man. I will not leave my wife for the children's sake. I will try to work things out with her and try to make the best of it. Why did it take my having an affair to wake up my wife and motivate her to be my partner in life? I don't know the answer. But I hate her for putting me through this hell; I deserved better. So please don't suggest that all cheaters have a "character flaw". You don't know me and you have no right to judge other people and their individual situations; all of which are different. TC

Tom,

Did not mean to offend,...however, I completely disagree with you.

My wife is every bit as miserable as yours...horrid, nightmarish "marriage"..in fact, I doubt I know what it means to truly be married. I have had many opportunities to seek love with another woman, but haven't done it.

I am every bit as lonely...every bit the provider...every bit as good a husband as you are...but I haven't had an affair. Why did you choose to go that route? For your children? Wait until they find out.....and they WILL find out...your wife will likely guarantee that...then what? Will they see you as good husband, despite the mistreatment you endure? Not likely.

I am curious...why didn't you just divorce her?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Tom Carlton:
<strong>I had no idea that there were so many sanctimonious people here. I guess the narrower a persons mind the broader their statements. I had an extramarital affair and I have NO character flaw.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, TC, count me amongst the sanctimonious.

Could be you actually have the world's worse wife. If so, mine was second worse. There are lot of other folks here tied with me for second worse spouse - but we didn't have affairs. How long have you gone without sex with your "indifferent" wife? I went eight years. I should've had an affair, right? I deserved one, right?

To be honest, you sound exactly like the typical WS. Maybe you're not, but your description of your wife is straight from the WS script.

No character flaw, huh? Congrats, I'd like to meet you in person. I enjoy sparring with folks who have no faults.

Well, welcome to this site. You can learn a lot here. I recommend you locate some former WSs here to exchange views. When we meet, I'll buy you a beer if you establish communication with a few and maintain your current attitude.

Orchid,

You're a beautiful person...and very inspiring! Thanks for sharing that insight...I loved it!

worthatry,

I am stunned at TC's post. And I agree with you wholeheartedly...looks like he may be searching for "validation".....which is what drove me to write my original post....

Okay, let me be the Devil's advocate.

I really, really like, (crave), sex. (If I weren't married now, I'm not sure I would get married again, in no small part to avoid hurting someone again.) I don't see anything wrong with sex between consenting adults, and used to see nothing wrong with the sex industry. (Cerri is starting to wean me of my acceptance of the sex-for-money business.) By limiting myself to sexworkers, I thought I was doing my wife a favor because:
1. I could satisfy my needs/fetishes without constantly harassing her to do so.
2. I would not develop an emotional attachment to another woman.

Of course all my reasoning was b.s., but so much of what we see on TV, read, or even learn about in public schools and universities seems to belittle basic moral values. (Case in point: "Bridges of Madison County". And that's a fairly mild example.) I was weak enough to buy this crap hook, line, and sinker.

I don't consider myself a bad person, but after 40+ years all these bad values have become a large part of who I am. It will take time and work to build a better character for myself.

And no, Cerri doesn't cut me any slack at all.

boy I hate it when people use big words I had to look up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

sanctimonious:Feigning piety or righteousness

Well I am weighing in her as the Wayward Spouse. I cheated on my husband.

Can the WS be sanctimonious?

Do i like knowing I have a character flaw? No, not really. Is it hard to accept sometimes ? Yes it is. Was my H perfect, no he wasn't. Was I the perfect wife?( why yes I was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Of course not.

TC OMG I can not believe you are saying this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I hate her for putting me through this hell; I deserved better.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">one day you will wake up and take responsibility for your actions.

I honestly can say no more, or say better what has already been said by others more articulate then me.You all hit it on the head, there is never a justifiable excuse for an A.

D&C,

I am sorry for imposing on your thread but I would certainly like to address my 'thoughts' to Mr. Carlton.

Thanks in advance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I look forward to hearing your thoughts also.

Originally posted by Tom Carlton:
<strong>I had no idea that there were so many sanctimonious people here. I guess the narrower a persons mind the broader their statements.</strong>

Well Tom, welcome to MB. You do realize this is a Marriage Building site. So the words of encourage are generally meant for one's marriage not A or to play the blame game. As to being called 'sanctimonious', well you are one to jump to conclusions for NOT know us either..... Keep reading and you will find that we are very real people who have gone through and are going through a very difficult part of life. We never claim and are far from being 'sanctimonious'.

Most who come here initially have a 'narrow view' and make broader statements (like you did), but after you have been hear a while, you learn to listen, converse and eventually you might learn a thing or two then even contribute something of value.

<strong>I had an extramarital affair and I have NO character flaw.</strong>

Wow, if there is even 50% truth to you statement, you'd better call Steve or Jennifer and let them know. I am sure they would like to know your secret.

<strong> Rather, I have spent 11 years married to a woman who, at one time, I loved but who has ruined me and wrecked our marriage by her systematic neglect of me, emotional abuse, selfishness, incompetence, inability to cope, unwillingness to attempt to cope, misplaced resentment, indifference, emotional and physical weakness and sloth.</strong>

What did you do to help you or your W to better your M? Funny, your statement is the similar to the one that came from my H. Which he later retracted. Remember when you point the finger of blame there are usually 3 pointing back at you. If your W was 1/2 as you described, you should have found her some help. Why did you enable her to be that way for sooo long?

<strong>I have foresaken my own happiness for years and have stayed with her for the sake of our 3 kids whom I adore. I work extremely hard and am a wonderful provider for our family. Now that my wife knows about the affair she has done a 180 and is trying to be the wife that she could have been and should have been all along. </strong>

Now who sounds sanctimonious? Glad to hear you adore your children and are a good provider. It did take the 2 of you to bring them into this world. Now what redeeming qualities does your W have?

Why is she doing the 180? Hm...... I was told I did a 180 but really? I am doing the same thing. Guess who did the 180?

<strong>I admit that I'm not proud of being an unfaithful husband and that infidelity is not the solution to marital problems but when you're married to someone who makes clear that she couldn't care less about you and that you're nothing more than a meal ticket it's pretty tought to feel good about yourself. </strong>

Admission of wrong doing is a step towards recovery. To acknowledge that doing more wrong is NOT the solution is also a good step......BUT ok here is where your selfish A attitude is rearing it's ugly head.

While you are correct, it is hard to be caring when someone else supposedly doesn't care, does NOT make it a valid excuse.

<strong>In my case, I met someone with whom I had an emotional parallel and, in a state of emotional distress and anguish I fell in love with her. </strong>

Don't they all.
Did she meet all your needs or just the fun stuff?

What needs did your W meet? Think about this one.

<strong>I can't have her though because my kids are young and need my wife and I to be together for them. My heart is broken and I am ruined as a man. I will not leave my wife for the children's sake. I will try to work things out with her and try to make the best of it.</strong>

You are smart to think about your children. Why are you ruining yourself as a man? If you really are ruined how will you be a good father and an H example for your children? Think an OW wants a broken ruined man? Think your W wants a broken ruined man? Think your W wants to be 2nd string after the kids and an OW?

What does 'try to work things out and make the best of it mean'?

<strong>Why did it take my having an affair to wake up my wife and motivate her to be my partner in life? I don't know the answer.</strong>

Your W may. What is your communication level with her? Do you expect her to read your mind?

<strong>But I hate her for putting me through this hell; I deserved better.</strong>

You both deserve better and so do your children.
So you love her and hate her or just hate her?

<strong> So please don't suggest that all cheaters have a "character flaw". You don't know me and you have no right to judge other people and their individual situations; all of which are different. </strong>

We all have character flaws. I don't have to know you personally to make that statement. No one is judging you. What are you feeling so guilty about? Of course all situations are varied. But an A is an A is an A. Just the name, faces and places may change.

All cheaters ADD to their character flaws. Cheating NEVER makes things better. It may show up the imperfections, but there are other ways of doing the same without the damage.

Mr. Carlton, I hope you came here to learn. If so and with the right attitude you will and maybe even your W can benefit.

Step back Mr. Carlton and see how you would react if you saw someone stepping down the wrong road and you could see they refused to admit they were headed for trouble. Think you wouldn't get involved? What if it was one of your children?

Now think about why you are here.

You may think these are strong words. Well they are. The things we deal with here can not be pampered. Straight talk can help but no one can force you to do what is beneficial for you. That's up to you.

take care,
L.
ps: If you would like to start your own thread..... others could direct their comments to your questions and thoughts.

To DazedConfused: thanks for the reply...no offence taken. When you suggest that I "sought" [seek] love elsewhere, nothing could be further from the truth. I've had several opportunities to cheat over the years with women who I know were interested in me but I didn't do it. I'm not a philanderer or skirtchaser and I never have been. I did not "seek" another women or an affair. Rather, I met a woman with whom I had an emotional and spiritual connection. My affair with her lasted about 10 months yet I never had sex with her. To be honest, I was only with her 4 times because she lives in a city about 1000 miles(literally) from my home. As far as my kids are concerned I'm sure that when they get older they will learn of my affair and I do not look forward to that day. As I've previously said I'm not proud of what I did. I hate the fact that for the rest of my life I have to live with the fact that I am an unfaithful husband. I hope that when my boys become aware of what I've done that they will see me as the good father who loves them rather than as the cheater who succumbed in a state of denial and despair. To answer your question about why I didn't just divorce her: I didn't want the boys to be the victims and products of a broken home. I carry on. Regards, Tom